Can Pirates be more than rogues on a boat?

Has any game done more with pirates than high Dex rogues that are good at sailing? What other skills and abilities could a pirate have that would make them a bit more unique and useful?

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>Pirate = Rogue

Why would a pirate be good at picking locks and disarming traps? Why would a pirate have any particular skill with sneak attacks? Wouldn't most pirates just be fighters with ranks in swimming and climbing?

Any class can be a pirate in the same way that any class can be a bandit, or a royal agent, or a treasure-hunter.

Assuming D&D since you mentioned Dex rogues
Standard stuff:
Doctors: Heal/Treat Injury skills are important, which is usually tied to wisdom.
Cooks: Profession (Cook), obviously., Wisdom
Navigators: Survival and Knowledge(Geo), Wisdom and and Intellect respectively
Captain: Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate are important for keeping the crew in line.
Average Pirates: Climbing, Swiming, Balance and Use Rope are all important and potentially life saving. Survival could help for fishing and stuff.

In magical setting:
Druids could be considered indispensable, due to their ability to create fresh water, potentially some food and control the weather.

Historically many pirates and sailors couldn't swim, and even those who could weren't capable of much more than treading water or doing a basic dog paddle. It was certainly a useful skill, but it didn't really start to universally catch on until the Victorian Age.

Pirates (or at least successful ones) weren't necessarily great fighters or even sailors, but excellent business men who were capable of motivating their crew through either juicy carrots or brutal sticks. Respect is EVERYTHING in pirate circles, so if your men do not respect you, you're gonna get a cutlass in the back.

Seneschals or other finance-centered characters can make excellent pirates, as can master orators and tacticians. Fighting is secondary (but should not be neglected) since, if you're pirating correctly, your minions will be doing all the fighting for you, and ideally you'll be attacking targets that aren't even able to fight back in the first place.

The ideal pirate raid is one where nobody is killed and a shot isn't fired. For this reason, pirates (at least in the Caribbean) would present their relatively weak prey with an overwhelming show of force (like having six different pistols strapped to their bodies, even though only two of those are actually loaded) to cow their targets into not even bothering. In exchange, pirates would (usually) leave the crew relatively unharmed and with enough provisions to get back to port so long as they complied with their demands (though this was certainly not always the case).

This is great, my group is planning a skypirate campaign. Tell me more about the ways of the Golden Age of Piracy. Maybe finish off with a comparison to modern-day piracy.

Singing Pirates can be bards.

>With a Yo ho ho and a +Str buff...

Well, there's not really a whole lot more to it. A Pirate Captain had to be cunning, if not "truly" intelligent, and able to seize an opportunity when he saw it. He had to be able to press people for information such as regular supply lines and naval patrol routes, and be able to properly make decisions based upon the info he has on him. He needs to be able to assemble a crew through some method, almost always voluntary service (Pirates were a surprisingly democratic group). Crew had to be kept in line through discipline and reward, as if the crew felt you were a bad captain they would either vote you out (again, surprisingly democratic) or just plain old kill you.

Whatever skills a pirate lacked, he had to be sure to assemble a cadre of advisors and specialists to make up for his flaws. If he is a brilliant tactician, but a poor sailor, he needs to have an expert navigator, and know when to defer to his expertise. If he is a master sailor, but isn't good with money or resources, he needs to hire and properly pay a good quartermaster to ensure that the bits and pieces that keep the crew and ship functional are kept in ample supply. If he can't fight worth a damn, he needs to hire good soldiers and crew who know how to fight and keep them fighting for him.

It ultimately comes down to, "Keep the money flowing, and everything is fine." Preying upon weak vessels in shallow waters and archipelagos is ideal, as they put up less of a fight. Speed and firepower is your friend - it is exceptionally rare that a pirate acquires a vessel that can go toe-to-toe with a Navy Ship-of-the-Line. Sloops, Corvettes, and maybe Frigates are ideal, as they can browbeat a Transport into submission but can still escape heavy Naval vessels they can't fight.

Running is an entirely valid strategy - if you're caught, you die. Very, very few pirates managed to escape the life and die of old age.

Hmm. Looking at the Buccaneers of Shadaki from Lone Wolf
>skilled at navigation
>can instantly identify the best loot
>disengage from combat safely
>frequently famous/infamous
>lots of accumulated lore from old ship tales and superstitions

So really, pirates are more like bards than rogues.

That's what I was thinking

>Skilled tricksters
>drinks and sings a lot
>decent fighters
>wanderers at heart
>very charismatic and good at deception, games of chance,
>Lots of nautical knowhow and lore, very concerned about luck and superstitious
>rapiers

Pirates are sea Bards

Pirates are literally maritime bandits.

They can be any sort of crook or degenerate, and historically caribbean pirate crews were well-known for the diversity in their ranks. Theirs can include any skills useful to cowardly thugs who prey on travelers.
>terrorize people into surrender
>slaughter people who put up a fight
>efficiently sack places and shake people down, locate concealed belongings, know common hiding spots on ships
>operate and maintain aquatic vessels
>operate and maintain weapons used on such vessels, such as cannon
>conceal contraband abord a naval vessel
>familiarity with coastal lowlife culture, including pirate customs, informal rules, behavior, preferred food and drink, and other patterns that help him guess what's going on in a pirate's head
>knowledge of services often used by pirates, like whorehouses and shitty bars
>determine the value of plunder, and know to whom it may be sold safely
>know common tactics used by law enforcement to try and catch pirates, as well as common countermeasures to thwart them
>if a specialist, then whatever the guy's job is. Can include stuff like navigation and doctoring

...you just want something cooler to compete with ninjas don't you?

5e already made pirates pretty good
>be a class
>choose pirate background

The "best" pirate would use the mariner fighting style from the Waterborn Adventures UA.

>not all Pirates have to be strong fighters who know how to shoot a gun or swing a sword
>a supporting class-character like a bard can be a pirate and use their skills of charm and singing good songs to their advantage

...Wow this certainly enlightened me a bit. And I guess those two pirate characters who are essentially bards in Captain Hook's crew in the Jake and The Neverland Pirates kiddie show can be indeed pirates in a practical setting where they use their musical talents to their advantage.

One day I'll run a pirate game, one thats a mix of "Errol Flynn Movie" and "historical caribbean", maybe with a dash of "Pirates of the Caribbean" style mysticism (but not too much, that stuff got kinda silly).

Dunno what the fuck system I'd use though. Never found a dedicated one that really grabbed me.

50 Fathoms/Pirates of the Spanish Main (Savage Worlds) are ok, but ehhh not that big on Savage Worlds.

Honor & Intrigue (modified Barbarians of Lemuria) is cool, but I found the ships somewhat unsatisfying and I'm unfamiliar with the system in general.

7th Sea 2nd edition is supposed to be good, but I downloaded the PDF and I found less than 10 pages about ships, and only about 3 of those having actual ship *Rules*. Kinda wtf a game about swashbuckling aventures has 3 pages of rules on ships...

Privateers and Gentlemen seems neat but its SOOOOO EIGHTIES. Not something I'd probably actually play but enjoyed reading all the details. That said its a fucking sailing simulator wargame with an RPG attached (again soooo 80s). Also more focused on the late 18th, early 19th century than the mid/late 17th and early 18th century that pirates had their prime.

Of course, there is always more generic systems.

Come to think of it, Ithink my ideal Priate/Age of Sail game would basically be "Traveller: Age of Sail Edition".

Too bad it'll never exist and I'm not insane enough to try to write it myself.

Pathfinder has provided all kinds of cool stuff for pirating. Each class got a couple archetypes that give some good pirate flavor, like the Bard's Sea Singer archetype that gives various song related magical abilities that help a pirate crew, such as sea shanties that keep away exhaustion and sea sickness or a song that calms rough water around the ship.

They even did an entire pirate AP called Skulls and Shackles.

youtube.com/watch?v=pMhfbLRoGEw

>and only about 3 of those having actual ship *Rules*.

Keep in mind the general simple and narrative nature of the rules. It really doesn't make sense for tens of pages of rules on ships when, outside of duels and dueling styles, a character holding an old rusty dagger is the same as somebody holding an expertly crafted sword. That's pretty much why the ship rules are simple and just an extension of normal action scenes; because they're meant to be quick and cinematic, something akin to Pirates of the Caribbean as opposed to more of a way of emulating real-life combat/strategies.

Yeah I know, but at the same time it makes no differentiation at all between different types of ships, be it a single masted sloop or a multi gun deck Man-O-War. Each ship has 2 cargo space, 10 crew points, and the exact same durability and effective firepower.

I like rules light, but I like at least some differentiation.

You may want to watch Black Sails, piracy is just a business for a lot of them.

THey're called shantymen. Look up Sea Shanties. No reason they would be less common on pirate ships than on others.

> Artificer
put your toys on a boat or acquire an air ship?
> Factotum
tons of skills and superstitions indulged by sea men, more than superstition in DnD

Even Paladin can be pirates

The evil usurper deposes lawful heir. Knowing nowhere in land they would be safe, and that hed be hunted to hell and back, royal protector flee with heir to port town, rally a few loyalists and comandeer a boat. Without destiny they roam the seas doing a few trade routes, barely enough to keep crew fed and ship afloat, always moving quickly out of town before local guard suspects who they are. Make contacts with loyalists supporting the heir in each town. The evil guy begins bringing in slaves and unholy artifacts to be used on ritual. Island nation so they come by sea. Royal protector begins raiding said shipments, freeing the slaves and destroying artifacts. Becomes rather good at it. Raid the tulers treasure fleets and weslthy merchants, trying for mininal casualities and giving those ge steal from a small and simple document mdntioning the importance 'borrowed'. When the times come, hires mercenaries and rally loyalists to put the lawful heir, now presumed dead after many years missing, back in power. Is surprised to learn after the fight hes a known and likeable figure, famed pirate and scoundrel with more than a couple dongs about gim being a bild dashing rogue defying authority and getting laid. Was actually focusing on restoring jystice and peace.

Have you played it, by the way? It was on my shortlist if I get roped into DMing for my friends again.

Why compete when you can multiclass?

Unfortunately no. Most of my collection sits unplayed. But I do love the world building and shit that's in them.

There's always Beat to Quarters which tends to be more on the serious side. It's an unusual system, which uses no dice but only decks of cards for task resolution. The sailor creation is pretty detailed, and even has a random table called "Life before Recruitment". There's a section for ship creation and naval battles as well. Never played it, though...

I watched a documentary about modern pirates (not necesserily from Somali), and most of the time they use small boats to ambush transport ships, climb on board, start swinging machetes around, and demand people to give them their wallets. If they disagree, they just use machetes to spill some blood from a random person's hand and that's basically enough to intimidate everyone on board. Not to mention, they mostly work in small teams of 3-5 people, and can intimidate crews of 20 or more men easily.

A Paladin can used as a holy man and warrior. Perform final rites to fallen men or a daily rite to bolster spirits and not bad in a boarding action. So long as you are not part of a rival religious order he is willing to be onboard as a warrior pilgrim

This was common in premodern times as well. No need to maintain a tall ship if you can just hide out in the delta and wait for something nice to come by. When you're done you just go back to your smithy or whatever.

Don't use dnd.
Poison'd for example.

I've done the first module and half of the second. It's surprisingly fun if that's what you're in to, but be warned the first half of the first module is going to feel kinda railroady.

3.5 and 5 give you plenty of options for pirates. I'm sure 2e did as well.

Yeah, that one looked interesting, but the card mechanics made me keep my distance and poke with a stick.

>he doesn't play mage pirates
Use wind magic to steer your boat, fireballs instead of cannons, water walking to raid enemy ships