Warhammer 40K scenario:

They ignore them completely as they are shit compared to 40k tanks and they have no shortage of Armour either way.
A moderately powerful local gang or poor planetary governor may be interested in them.

I will honestly say I am not as up on the lore as 90 percent of you elegan/tg/gentlemen. But from my Rogue Trader days most 40K gear was inferior to present day gear. Except for insta-kill like vortex grenades.

Has the fluff or the rules improved since then?

They'd probably inspire new designs.

They'd probably be interesting to the admech as armored cavalry, as opposed to the Russ's self-propelled-artillery and infantry-support roll.

Why would they even bother with retrofitting them? Tanks are cheap.

They'd likely break them down and study them, and catalogue them, but they'd almost certainly not use them. The Leman Russ is perfectly good at its job, and the logistics train is designed around them.

>"Wait wait wait wait! You mean... We could make tanks... That AREN'T massive targets, but STILL pack the same firepower, armor, and even gain superior speed?"
>"It would seem so. If these sticky notes are to be believed, the Emperor himself wanted us to use these designs, per the 'memo to self: get these to the admech idiots so they can see tanks don't have to be big, ugly boxes named after my furry son'."
>"Praise the Emperor! His wisdom continues to guide us!"

Russ tanks are larger then todays mbts by quite a margin. Don't let the tabletop fool you, guardsmen are fucking too big. Also, their old armour and systems would be outdated by the tech level seeing how different metals and alloys are used in the 41st such as ceremite and adamantium. I think roughly autocannons fire 100mm. Then, scale that up to the russ cannons. The closest size comparison would be modern SPGs 155mm and up.

>Same firepower
>same armour
>speed advantage

Yeah no, modern tanks don't do anything other then speed faster. The adamantium plating would weight down an abrams and the current day engine would not get nearly as much HP. Plus, good luck getting fuel for the engine.

>Roguetrader days

Sorry to break it to ya, but hairmetal has gone out of style and almost nothing except names are the same.

>a tank
>not just a massive target

It's not a tank to the crews user...it's just a box.

So fluff or rules? A stubber which was basically a rifle that could not kill had a max range of about 24 meters. Modern infantry rifle can kill at a hundred meters easy.

No, the Leman Russ' cannon is waaaay bigger than 120mm based on model, art, and description scaling. Only the Forge World entry called it a 120mm cannon, and it was blantantly retarded and eventually reconnected with good reason.

Who said inches tabletop wise translate directly into meters? Mind you all infantry models arenway too large for their scale.

What book did this happen in?

How do you propose representing that short of playing the game on a football field, and still having the artillery a 15 min drive away back at your house?

>A stubber which was basically a rifle that could not kill had a max range of about 24 meters.
Do you also believe the minis are a faithful representation of the proportion folks in the setting have and that they're also to scale with the vehicles?

the only real advantage the mbt's of today would have over the lrbt's are speed and range.
40k weapons have shit range.
yes that includes tau.

Hasn't there been a thread like this already? Where "modern day-real life MBTs like abrams, russian t72 to t90s and armata, leopards, merkavas and challengers would fare well in le grimdark because practicallity and longer range combat and faster speeds and lower profiles."

>what if xenos; eldar or tau, or orks, find those tanks and other vehicles instead?

I can only imagine eldar be trying real hard to find the instruction manuals for such tanks and would probably slap some of their gem stones/soul stones onto the armor because reasons.

Orks being the master engineers and tinkerers they are probably might figure out how to work it, maybe they'd let their Gretchins use it? I'd be surprised if Orks decide not to change the main gun because the think its "good enough."

But I'm real scared of what Tau engineers would do to it, not only because of their more superior tech in comparison, but they'd do the blasphemous act of not only changing the main gun which makes such ancient relics recognizable. But they'd dare change the designs to match their weaboo designs. I'd be more OK with Orks and Eldar utilizing such respectable MBTs than the communist fish people.

Also gonna post good quality slav-tank 'cause I think German Leopards are starting to get overrated.

One of the Imperial Guard novels; I can't remember which one. I saw it mentioned in a feat calc thread on Spacebattles.

A figure was about two inches tall which in scale was about six feet. What did I miss?

>They ignore them completely as they are shit compared to 40k tanks
>ignore them because they're shit
>ignoring ancient Earth tech
>implying the AdMechs would not bum rush to whatever place those modern day MBTs are being stored so that they could get their mechanical hands on them and have them shipped to Mars
>implying AdMechs would not be jerking off to an M1A2 SEP or an Israeli Merkava and covering it with their mecha-sperm while also praying to Omnissiah/Void Dragon to have machine spirits power those tanks with their steel thumbs up their metal buttholes

I think I'm gonna question your knowledge of warhammer lore at this point user.

>Spacebattles.

The thing is, while they are ancient tech, they're also not STC tech.

Try cramming 8 guardsmen into a chimera with all the bits from their boxes.

>I think I'm gonna question your knowledge of warhammer lore at this point user.

So by your logic, if a Leman Russ is poorly armored compared to a modern tank, then the entire array of 40k death rays, beamers, missiles, plasma, gauss weapons, and railguns of all kinds employed by every race, are actually about as effective as WW2 weaponry (at best), because otherwise how could they fail to easily defeat the armor on such a deathtrap?

Yes, it is perfectly reasonable to assume the entire 40k universe has pathetic technology all because some uninformed gamers gave bullshit tank specs in throwaway fluff piece.

I think I'll have to assume all your knowledge of warhammer lore comes from Veeky Forums memes.

Well its this type of thread again. Too bad iam in mobile rifht now. But can anyone do me a favor and just post a pic of any sweet or neat M1 Abraham tank please?

...

the issue is our worse materials more than anything. the armour itself is physically thinner than ours. but it's made of scifi super materials and is capable of stopping their admantium APFDS rounds abd would certianly be even more effective against our mere DU rounds.

a human figure is closer too an inch tall.
Also like pretty much every wargame ever the weapon ranges aren't too scale with the minis, simply for the practically of fitting the game onto a reasonable play area.

fluff and rpgs put weapon ranges as comparable too their modern equivalents (where they exist), a lasgun has about 400m range, the standard russ battlecannon has 3km and the basalisk can lob its shells 15km.

>M1 Abraham
How could you fuck up something so simple?

...

The Jews are to blame :v

sure thing

That was not even close to what he was saying you fucking autist. He was saying that the admech wouldn't ignore ancient earth tech, even if it was shit.

>M1 Abraham

Eh, they probably would ignore stuff this old. They're all about the STCs and DAOT glory days not just older is better.

Oh fuck, I remember that place. I used to piss a ton of people off by debating for Eragon.

Good times.

It's a pretty good place to stir shit up.

I've seen several sources say the Russ has a 120mm cannon. pic related

That's an extremely old pic, though.

The Leman Russ Battle Cannon is pretty big, though. It's at an absolute minimum the size of an Abrams gun, and likely quite larger.

Autocannons are roughly 20mm-30mm, depending on the particular Forge World and model produced. They don't do much against heavy armor, but they'll fuck you up pretty good if you're not paying attention or you're a squishy humie.

But this is all true...
>Yes, it is perfectly reasonable to assume the entire 40k universe has pathetic technology all because some uninformed gamers gave bullshit tank specs in throwaway fluff piece.
But it is reasonable. Just because its a throw-away doesn't make it not true in-universe.

MBTs have front armour 10 so eh. The Imperium doesn't need that shit. A single Laser Predator could probably annihilate a full US Tank Battalion in like 10 minutes.

Oh, did it get superseded? Can you link me?

vs autocannons everyone is squishy, man.

a single laser predator could kill a couple abrams before it got blow up by a ATGM. None if murica had air superiority, which is going to happen due to the retarded planes imperium has.

>MBTs have front armour 10 so eh.
Where are you getting this?

his own ass

>due to the retarded planes imperium has.
Are you sure about that?

Because the imperial Lightning, going by stats on Lexicanum, can go further, faster and higher than the F22, taking the stats from Wikipedia
The payload seems a bit lighter - the Lighting in Air-to-Air configuration only has 6 missiles to the Raptor's 8, but it does have 2 lascannons as well as the autocannon, which seems comparable to the raptor's vulcan.

Just because they look like they should be bricks, doesn't mean they fly like bricks

>ATGM
Which will at best tickle the Predator.

aeronautical engineer here, thos planes will just shatter in the air once they reach transonic speeds.

if they dont shatter due to magical handwavium memes, they will not be able to perform any kind of maneuver due to turbulences rendering the plane complete useless.

>>ATGM
>Which will at best tickle the Predator.
Citation?

citation is poor d&d player with magical handwavium incrusted in their brain.

Ooh, can you give us diagrams and calculations? I'd love to see some math on this.

Yeah, as an engineer who only barely remembers his areonautics work from uni, I'd love to see some calcs too - the imperium's got bullshit materials science, this is known, so I'd be interested to see why they can't manoeuvre if they use enough force.

>Because the imperial Lightning, going by stats on Lexicanum, can go further, faster and higher than the F22, taking the stats from Wikipedia
Of course, because the things can be deployed from orbit. I'd be willing to bet that Raptors can dance better than Lightnings can, though.

Due to bad writing (according to the Imperial Armor books the Land raider has 365mm of armor while an M1A1 has 900mm) and the the shitty design of the Leman Russ (tall silhouette, low suspension), a modern tank would be a marvel of engineering ingenuity. The only thing a Leman Russ would have going for it is the cannon.

there is a reason the planes are not just cubic boxes with rockets strapped. when you reach transonic speeds, things not designed to make smooth the sonic transition to supersonic speeds where you get a sudden increase of drag, will suffer incredible stress and vibration. we are not talking about "vibration that can be countered by handwavium" we are talking of levels of force that will make pudding out of the pilot and the plane will just shatter in pieces.

lets not talk about being able to dogfight in that situation. Surface controls work by forcing air to move in one different direction. If the plane doesnt shatter and the pilot is not pudding, you will not be able to fight with the plane, not even fly straight and those thick ass wings are going to fuck you up once you reach terminal speeds even before you can pull down the accelerator, diving to incontrolable spin until you crash or you reach enough speed to just shatter.

why? well because those surface controls like aleirons and elevators creates controlled turbulences. if the air around you is a fuck chaotic mess and your wings are vibrating like the dildo GW employees have shoved up their asses, you are not going to be able to control the plane.

i would like to do some calcs, but its not needed (and im a bit on the lazy side), the whole thing is filled with flat front surfaces that creates negative lifts and HUGE turbulences.

MAYBE and im just telling you MAYBE at 600~ kmh, very far away from transonic speeds you might be able to control the plane with handwave materials and vibration dampeners and also with machine spirit controlled micro adjusts to flight like the B-2 bomber does. But then you lose supersonic dominance and thus, with the majority of your weapons being cannons and lazurs, you are just sitting ducks ready for a meteor or sidewinder up your asses.

>Non-STC tech
>Worse armor
>Worse firepower

This whole "All tech in 40k blows" misinformation is stupid. This is a world of personal teleporters and death rays, AI and planetoid sized ship-fortresses. Yes, things have been slipping since the Dark Age of Technology, but that was as close to a Sci-fi utopia as humanity got in that universe.

But let's say those tanks are discovered anyways, and for argument's sake, we'll say the AdMech figured out how to work and maintain these vehicles despite no STC to hold their hands, AND we'll just ignore all the actual fluff about tech levels and say these tanks are actually an improvement over your basic Russ. Nothing of any significance would happen. This is still 40k we're talking about, something stupid will happen.

>They're seen as Tech heresy and destroyed
>The Administratum loses the fleet of tanks in shipping
>Chaos corrupts them
>Russ comes back for the Wolf-time and has his fragile ego hurt by this "Abrams" guy, destroying the tanks in a tantrum
>They require Windows 10 to interact with

cont:

Imagine big slow with incredible HUGE radar signal ww2 planes vs modern day AA capabilities. Heck, even our AA tanks will fuck up them so hard it will be ridiculous. those things can track air to air missiles, imagine a big ass radar signal (due to outright flat surfaces and big ass plane) slower than a ww2 plane. those 90mm cannons are going to chew them so hard its ridiculous. even our AAA missiles will just kill them in handfuls.

>The only thing a Leman Russ would have going for it is the ammo.
FTFY. The Russ's gun is only about 7 calibers long. It has got to be the ammo that gives it its performance.

They can be, though the stats given for the ceiling are "with jet engines", which implies ground launch - they have rocket boosters for fast launch and space ops, though it's not a true starfighter.

I agree it's probably not that maneuverable, but it gets a huge power budget, awesome materials for flight stresses, and the lascannons mean if the Raptor gets into its sights even for a moment it's toast

Also, I misread slightly - its speed is on par with the raptor's absolute max, but it can be presumed to be supercruising all the time.
Still got a retardedly huge range though

>I don't recall the armor values of a Russ but IIRC they're not that thick.
Blame noguns Brits for that. The armour values actually listed for shit like a land raider are pants on head retarded. A 90 mm gun used during the Cold War would be similar in performance to a Tau railgun if that was true. But as for the actual topic.

>Listening to the retarded listed values for the armour of Imperial Vehicles
The Imperium conquers the Galaxy in a decade since modern tanks would have something like AV 18/13/12 armour with a strength D gun as well as 2 or 3 heavy stubbers in some form and the ability to fire what amounts to Tau submunition rounds. Also its main gun is probably BS 4 or 5 due to modern ballistics computers and optics plus it has a coaxial weapon.

>Being reasonable
The Mechanicum breaks them down for scrap.

leman russ is just a tracktor with guns strapped. the fuck are you talking about? do you even science?

>Just a tractor

Are... Are you implying that "tractor," is a static level of technology that cannot change, user?

the leman russ stc is a tractor with strapped armor and guns. its not a "state of the art tank"

a land raider is just a big ass tractor with armor strapped and some guns.

also >change
this is fucking 40k kiddo

goddamnit kids read your fucking fluff for fucks sake

also, a predator is just a troop transport with guns strapped. How good is a italian centaur vs MBT? thats the comparison you want to make.

> 7 calibers long

Nigga what is that even supposed to mean?

Lexicanum implies that they're launched from ships equally often as airbases. The 'with jet engines' part doesn't imply ground launch to me. I think, but could be wrong, that the book Double Eagle outright says they use wheeled sleds to take off from the ground when they aren't on the ramps.

It can not be presumed to be supercruising at all times. The listed speed is noted as the 'max speed', and in such case, it is still 10 kmh slower than the Raptor.

The fluff in that regard is retarded because it doesn't just make the Imperium look bad it makes literally everyone look bad.
>Most advanced Eldar and Tau weapons have difficulty penetrating what amounts to an early cold war tank in terms of armour.
As I said the britbongs making stats for this shit is pants on head retarded because using their stats a modern tank would be like AV 14 on the front with a strength D gun. The modern US army could solo the Imperium, Tau, Eldar, and Necrons combined.

Means the barrel is only about 480 mm long. 120mm times 7.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber_(artillery)

>the leman russ stc is a tractor with strapped armor and guns. its not a "state of the art tank"

Did I ever say it was? You're implying that the other user wasn't using science by throwing out pretty meaningless statements.

The point is a simple "tractor," in 40k does not, by any reasoning, have to be comparable to ours in feats. In fact, they don't, the Leman Russ is shown, time and time again to be a brutally durable tank despite being based off a tractor.

This pretty much explains why a Leman Russ is, logically, a very durable and powerful machine despite its inefficient design.

Caliber means length in terms of bore diameter. For example the Abrams has a 120mm L/44 main gun meaning its bore diameter is 120mm and its gun is 44 calibers long. Using basic math the Abrams' gun is 120*44=5280 mm long or 5.28 meters, about 17.3 feet long.

>a modern tank would be like AV 14
I mean like AV 18

That's part of the charm of 40k for me. "look at these fools, they think that they're technologically superior. Ha ha, no."

>LRBT use a 120mm main gun.

Just because the bore diameter is the same doesn't mean the guns are identical in performance.

>what is the RHA equivalent of Imperial tank armor?

Nobody knows. "Hurr nogunz bongs durr" crowd wants to assume "conventional steel" is RHA.

>"equivalent to 200 mm of steel"

Russ armour is only given in physical thickness, not in equivalency.

>Only the Forge World entry called it a 120mm cannon

120mm has been in a variety of sources, including GW publications. Such as .

>That's an extremely old pic, though.

Now you just need to provide a newer one to retcon it.

>120x7 =480

this is why this thread is full of kids unable to understand that handwavium is a shit way to force things.

you guys are retarded

the fluff states a "tractor" because thats what us would understand as atractor, everything else you said is just projection and holding into a burning pot.

fuck off

>Russ armour is only given in physical thickness, not in equivalency.

it was given in old books, wasnt mentioned in the news tho

jesus, how young are you kids?

Whoops, meant 840. transposed a digit.

>ebbin ross trekter may-may
>inb4 "it's canon, and no, I will not find you the source, learn to fluff"

>I HAVE TO BE SPOONFEED IN ORDER TO GIVE UP MY CLAIMS THAT I DID NOT SOURCED FRIST HAND

Cant we all just agree that real life tanks are simply shit becausr e warhammer tanks are bigger and better? Because fuck you military faggots thinking your precious abrams, leopards, merkavas and stupid russian tanks can ne good in 40K.

And you know what? Let me piss you fags of by saying 40k tanks (imperium) are far better than yoir precious tanks since they're bigger and have bigger stronger guns. And a space marine with hia bolter can fick up a whole US army tank group 'cause fuck you army fags imperium tanks win no question.

Yeah, they're mentioned as using sleds on the ground as well

>criticizes me for my math mistake
>goes on to make several grammar and spelling errors
Dude, c'mon.

>it was given in old books

Do share this magical book, because I've never seen any source give Russ armour in equivalency. Unless you confuse Russ and Land Raider, in which case kindly fuck off.

Also, new trumps old, so whatever was said in the old books is superseded by new fluff that gives the physical diameter of the armour.

Mind showing us where it says that the values are the physical thickness, not anything else?

>the fluff states a "tractor" because thats what us would understand as atractor, everything else you said is just projection and holding into a burning pot

I'm projecting? You're literally saying the term "tractor," has to equate to modern day specifications because it's what we'd recognise. Does that not also follow for tanks, weapons and armour, then?

I literally have no idea how you can come to this conclusion. A tractor is a term for a general classification of vehicle, one that obviously translated at somepoint to the Dark Age of Technology (you know, the guys who were on the cusp of time travel, had FTL, sapient AI that could easily outsmart Humans?) A tractor is not a specific set of parameters of performance.

90mm gun can pierce 365mm of plasteel?

>bigger
>better
>tanks
>somehow those three things together makes sense

not my mother language and writing in a phone, but alright, you are not retarded. what about the bunch of niggers trying to handwave the mess

not directly but indirectly. it was given to land raider, predator and also mentioned everywhere in the fluff that land raider and russ have similar performing frontar armor.

Extrapolating both numbers give you equivalence.

dude, a ww2 75mm gun without tungsten carbide ammo can pierde over 330mm of soft steel. what is plasteel? everywhere in the fluff plasteel is just steel with superior plastic propierties and lighter. that doesnt make it better agaisnt high speed penetrators, but worse than conventional steel.

>what is plasteel

Terminator armour is made of plasteel with ceramite reinforcement, and it can operate inside fusion reactors and get stepped on by titans.