/btg/ - Battletech General

You've got a couple time periods to fill before we get to clanners bub.

Seriously...why does every Battletech/Mechwarrior title have to have clanners in it? I find the obsession with them a little distressing. Does MWO not have enough of them? Have you not gotten your fill of them over the last 20 odd years in CBT? Or is it that you can't live long without your Timber Wolf dickings?

Just be happy we're getting a game that looks like it'll be a solid port of CBT to screen.

Here's a question for the ages...how do we make a TMS Berserker scarier?

I'd personally rather see the actual Succession Wars before we see the Invasion. Invasion would be fun though, if only because I'd get to actually play as ComStar dammit.

It's my desire to roleplay my favorite faction and has absolutely nothing to do with a desire to be OMFG AWESOME TECHNOLOGEE with hints of appreciation of concepts of genetic superiority.

>Seriously...why does every Battletech/Mechwarrior title have to have clanners in it?

The same reason every Battltech game needs to revolve around 3025 instead of the Jihad or beyond.
Banking on nostalgia.
Battletech nostalgia nets you IS before Clans but after 3rd SW.
Mechwarrior nostalgia places you at the start of the invasion or into the counter-invasion.

So if I have all the core rulebooks, like campaign operations and all that, how far up does the game scale? Can I play tactical battles that affect the outcome of a campaign for a continent, planet, or solar system? How much paperwork does that require? Have any of you fought a whole war like that?

It sounds incredibly cool, but I'm kind of intimidated. And is there a hex and counter version or is it all minis all the time?

Because clans are actually pretty cool...?

And those time periods contain some of the most memorable original designs for the series...?

Hey my Battletech nostalgia is the 3rd SW. I still remember one of the quotes from the rulebook saying something like, "We are vultures feeding on the carrion of our own civilization." I thought that sounded so cool. Especially because they could never replace things destroyed in battle.

>Invasion would be fun though, if only because I'd get to actually play as ComStar dammit.
You don't technically need the Clan invasion for that though. OR are you saying you don't want to be ROM false flagging it up?
Final mission is the NAIS raid. Are you a bad enough Precentor to kill the First Prince?

>So if I have all the core rulebooks, like campaign operations and all that, how far up does the game scale?
From individual soldiers (A Time of War) to "here's your Successor State, go nuts." (Interstellar Operations), with Total Warfare and Tactical Operations being slightly near AToW, and Strategic Operations and Campaign Operations near IO.

>Can I play tactical battles that affect the outcome of a campaign for a continent, planet, or solar system?
Certainly. Depending on your era, that's much easier, as battles during the Third Succession War could decide the fate of a planet with little more than 12 mechs per side. Admittedly, that is an outlier, but tactical battles can decide such outcomes. Later events make battles for planets end up around a regiment per side, so 108 units. Which, unless you have a lot of time and free table space, isn't really feasible to play tactically.

>How much paperwork does that require?
That really depends on how much detail you're looking to use. A game where you're not tracking anything but the combatants as they fight can be easy, since you're just looking after their record sheets. A game where you're tracking repairs, ammo expenditure, hospital time and experience is a whole other can of worms.

>Have any of you fought a whole war like that?
Yes, but I've been playing for a long time and have a group willing to suffer with me.

>It sounds incredibly cool, but I'm kind of intimidated. And is there a hex and counter version or is it all minis all the time?
Alpha Strike does include rules to play games where the smallest unit is the Lance or higher, so you can approximate hex and chit play, but most people use 1 unit = 1 mini.

How would you an Atlas IIC?

Many thanks, that's good to know!

Huh, I notice that damage values are x5 what they are on tabletop. Wonder if that's for more damage granularity.

There's no Atlas IIC, but there is technically an Atlas II (C), so that, basically.

Fair enough.

>Behold the beauty and joy that is the HBS pre-pre-alpha, 0.0.7, being demo'd at GenCon!

Neat, yet slightly dismaying. Was hoping for a more hexgrid-based virtual tabletop experience rather than what looks right now to be a more polished version of MechCommander.

>but most people use 1 unit = 1 mini.

And while mini's are cool and what most people use, you can use pretty much anything to represent a unit on the board, as long as the object has a clearly defined 'front' facing.

I have used lego mini figs once or twice.

Something simple and straightforward like this.

I'd Atlas II (Kerensky) that's how.

It's from BattleForce 1st edition. Note that only the average distribution part is canon. The rest are my own percentages, based on vague canon statements (Marik has "fewer" assaults; but what exactly is "fewer"?, etc.). It's also a 3025 statement: who knows how it changes following 4th War losses and post-War mech production increases.

Dude. A), there's MegaMek, and B) MechCommander was fun.
Furthermore, Jordan might have finally solved the "Light 'Mech problem", and I am all kinds of okay with that.

>is there a hex and counter version or is it all minis all the time?
Yup, Battleforce and Strategic Battleforce have hex-and-chit options. You basically make a lance and then extrapolate the stats to get your counter's stats. They put out cunter sheets for them and everything.

Perhaps my favourite BT quote.

We already had MW Tactical and we still have MegaMek.
Anything with the full rules like MM is going to be a shit product for anyone that doesn't already play MM, and anything streamlined enough is going to be shit for fans and still shit for the masses.

I was surprised and happy that they went with no grid, it lets them design non terrible maps.
What we all want is another MechCommander, and this is MC with a turn based feature that doesn't hold itself back with illusions of trying to be like tabletop. Looks good to me.

Watch the vid again. There's still a grid, and facing. It's just in smaller segments and not outright shown.

It's in battleforce 1e. There are some numbers floating around for later eras, but they're pure fanon. I could supply them if you'd like, though

Probably. It's pretty typical to increase that kind of thing when moving from a tabletop system to computerised one. And it's a smart move, since there's no extra effort on the player's part to do so and plenty of gameplay and design benefits.

>finally solved the "Light 'Mech problem"
What is the Light Mech Problem? And is the solution you are referring to the Reserve ability in the initiative tracker they've developed?

Thanks brother, you're the best.

>What is the Light Mech Problem?

Not that guy, but in most Battletech-related vidya, light 'Mechs tend to be overly squishy and largely useless except as OPFOR cannon fodder in early game missions.

As a rule, light Mechs are more like strategic assets than tactical assets. That is, they're for recon and maybe the heavier ones can perform hit-and-run attacks. But almost all Battletech games that are actually played - whether on the tabletop or computer games - ultimately boil down to brawls. Light mechs don't have a place in such combats; they don't have the staying power to last. You can get about 2 Light mechs for the BV of a decent heavy, and the Heavy is almost always going to be a better choice in a brawl.

The only time Light Mechs matter in a brawl is when it's double-blind. Which, again, practically nobody actually plays. It really takes a computer game to make double-blind worthwhile.

Light mechs really come into their own in objective-based games, and in games on larger maps. But yeah, they aren't that useful on a generic 2x2 setup

Why is Word of Blake, even pre-Jihad, such an enjoyable faction?

For WoB fans, or just enthusiasts, what is your favorite:
>WoB designed mech (ComStar ones they took count) besides Celestials
>WoB variant of a general or House mech design
>WoB Militia division

Give praise to Blake

Light mechs are also good if your Atlas wants to hit a motherfucker with another motherfucker.

I play on 4x2 and 5x2 regularly (tables aren't large enough to handle more than two maplengths), and even on those, lights aren't useful. If you want fast-strike elements, you use mediums and fast heavies.

To say nothing about the fact that even in double blind games, light mechs are useless in comparison if you have airborne units. Honestly, there's a pretty strong argument that, in the table top game at least, post-3055, Mechs of 30 tons or less are totally obsolete and shouldn't exist at all. Except as "OPFOR cannon fodder", as mentioned above.

It's the _x2 that's the problem. With a *larger* field, rather than just a deeper but equally narrow field, lights can actually work as a mobile reserve; you send your mediums and heavies out to meet the opponent's mediums and heavies, in routes that are obvious since they need several turns to close, while the lights have much higher mobility and are thus far less predictable than pretty much all heavier machines(with the exception of some fairly rare and generally expensive machines). Of course, slow lights (under 6/9, and even that's borderline) are totally useless, it's true.

Supercharge it

Do you play on the floor? A _x3 map doesn't fit on a 4-foot wide table. Reaching the middle of a _x3 map is a pain in the ass, and it's downright impossible for 90% of players to do so on a _x4 map. Croupier sticks aren't allowed in game stores here.

>Do you play on the floor?
No, I just have a big square table in my garage that I use. It's fairly low and I and most of the guys I play with are tall, so we can reach.
Also, I play a decent amount of megamek, where you don't have to reach

I was thinking of that, I was also thinking that you could fit IJJs, an ECM Suite and a Void-Sig, for maximum "Surprise mothafucka!" and application of an Ax. Maybe give it a Bloodhound Probe as well.

>IJJs
I wouldn't recommend that. They weigh four tons each on a hundred tonner.
But VSS, CLPS, supercharged and a bunch of regular MLs would be hilariously nasty

>What is the Light Mech Problem?
Basically, Lights are useless without careful scenario or map design, since the game design at TL rewards brawling and turret-tech over EW and mobility warfare.
As pointed out elsewhere, the basic constraints imposed by table size and arm length make it hard to run a TL game where Lights can really shine (although my LGS >does< allow croupier sticks..).

Double-blind on tabletop is its own special kind of Hell, although I have run it more than once. Even there, cav mediums and heavies are typically a better bet since the "serious" enemy contacts are usually in knots and can vape most lights that get into VC.

In a non-BV-balanced, asymmetric scenario, Lights can be useful, but you basically have to design the entire fight around them; in urban fights with a lot of lighter buildings, they're also very useful for skirmishing since it's a lot harder to collapse the buildings under them. But the marginal increase in TMMs they can get don't really help when a single Gauss slug can get a mission kill reliably if it hits.

Yeah, the stacking initiative and better move options that Lights are getting the game (plus the IGYG phased initiative with immediate damage and double-blind gameplay) let Lights effectively double their firepower if well-handled, while still keeping their fragility intact.

jenner is going to shine in the game !

Ok, that's basically what I suspected you were on about, but I'm glad anons clarified. Thanks, /btg/, still the best general on the boards.

Guys, there's a limited number of late backer spots that just opened up if you want to risk it with the btech game: battletech.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders

At the very least I played all the new Shadowrun games and they came out well made by them

I'm the user that asked about the KF drive. Is the KF Boom canon, then? I've never seen it before, is all... Is there a book reference I can peruse?

>. Is the KF Boom canon, then? I've never seen it before, is all... Is there a book reference I can peruse?
grab the old Dropships and Jumpships book from the OP. old as shit, but it's the most comprehensive description of battletech spacecraft ever written

How big weeaboos were the original Battletech creators, actually?

...

>complaining about Clans when the game is 3025, INTROTECH ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION

Literally any other era would be better

Eh, I don't mind them starting with introtech only. I just hope it gets later expansions/sequels that take place in other eras.

VSS doesn't work with CLPS, null sig does but you wouldn't be able to equip the hatchet.

I chose to use CLPS over VSS because the Berserker is going to need to do a lot of moving which really cancels out any benefit of VSS. Plus you WANT to be in short range for RIP AND TEAR.

Other than some simple modifications and going full clantech, the BRZ series are really well made(hell, one of them has a bombast for dial-a-heat) and I didnt want to make a duplicate of my hatchet awesome.

So you know how it has the flamer for intimidation factor? I took that idea and dialed it up to 11.

I dont even know if you can armor CLPS but I did anyway.

Hope they add a "Hey Arnold" pilot expansion pack. No one can outpilot Stinky Peterson

I would like a Star League game way more than another 3025 game.

A game where you play as SLDF against Amaris would be more interesting, more unique, make more sense storyline wise, have more gameplay options, and wouldn't hurt any grognard feelings

I just see the wisdom in starting things out relatively simple before trying to bring in all the crazy stuff from other eras.

Hatchet awesome?
I must see this

Its really a simple design which is great because I recently lost my hdd and all my builds.

>WoB designed mech (ComStar ones they took count) besides Celestials

Legacy

>WoB variant of a general or House mech design

That Flashman variants they made , the 9B and the 9M are fun, even if the 9M is impractical.
Also, the Zeus variant, the 10WB, is a personal favorite.

>WoB Militia division

I like the 18th division, solely for the burn everything to the ground approach that they have.

Star League/early Clan tech are hardly "complex". SRM and LRM have more complicated rules than the classic Level 2 tech, with LB-X as the only exception I can think of.

Kids don't have any problems playing Pokémon, with its 700+ creatures and dozens to attacks. Saying that 30+ equipments would make a strategy game not simple is kind of an insult.

That's fair, but then there's the shit that comes into play post-3062 or thereabouts.

Also, even with the relatively simple stuff from earlier in the invasion, you've still got to prepare your anus for power creep.

>How big weeaboos were the original Battletech creators, actually?

Macross has been famous for 30 years, but they new about Dougram and Crusher Joe at a time when you had to know your shit to know of your shit, y'know? I imagine they were absolutely fascinated by giant robot anime.

It looks pretty good.

What makes or breaks the game will be AI. And good mission variety with more elaborate setpieces.

I watched it again and the cursor only snaps around in the case of terrain you can't stand on, for example the edge of a cliff. Whenever scrubbing over smooth ground there is no snapping, so if there is a grid for programming purposes, it is effectively not worth noting.
Likewise, facing is there, but not in the slightest based upon a grid, there is no snapping.
And all of that is good IMO.

I agree the game has potential.

The mwo assets look pretty good, the shadowhawk was great.

Can't wait to roll with my P-Hawks and Thuds. Stalkers too. So many fun machines that were never in the MC series that I hope make it into here.

At the time the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook came out, with all it's Gundam references, people were still watching raw VHS and reading along with printed English scripts (if even that), as access to subtitling equipment was still extremely rare for hobbyists and the fansub movement was still in its very earliest stages.

I'm looking forward to Warhammer-only lances. Hopefully, we'll have mech customization, so I can make a bunch of Whammy variants and run with bizarre Warhammer only forces. Why? Fuck you, I like Warhammers.

>dat caption
Indeed, sir or madam.

>How big weeaboos were the original Battletech creators, actually?
Super weeboo. Jordan got his wife to dress up as Nasty Kay for an anime con in '89

Anyone got the Zeta Battalion screencap? The one with all the Zeta characters?

So I'm pretty new to Classic Battletech (although somewhat familiar with the broader franchise), I've played a few games on Megamek and I'm trying to put together a few more interesting and diverse fluffy lists. My favourite faction is the Rasalhague Dominion due to its unique cultural mix, and I've been trying to figure out how to best make use of its mixed techbase.

I'm still open to suggestions, but I'm currently working on an idea from a friend, using an IS fire support vehicle based C3 network to back up a frontline of Clan mechs.

My vague thoughts for the vehicles is a Schiltron command vehicle, some JES missile carriers and something small and fast as a spotter. Specific configurations for this would be good to hear, along with ideas for how to best arrange a mech frontline to screen against the enemy.

Slow heavy hitters? The faster, more aggressive Clan bear designs? A mix of the two? My grasp of the nuances of tactics and the fortes of various mechs is still pretty weak.

If you're playing a scenario or aren't balancing using BV, go wild with C3.

If you have to pay for it with BV, fuck that noise. C3 is strictly worse than paying for skill upgrades, because those don't go away with the loss of an item or the presence of ECM. Yet the costs for the two are about the same.

If the force is mixing 'Mechs and Vees it's probably a second-line unit. Clan Second-Line units use the vees from TR 3060 along with the SLDF standbys, which in this case means things like the Alacorn if you want to go there.

'Mech-wise, the Arcas is a second-liner but is highly optimised. Grab one if you can.

I've been working from this to guide my unit selection masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=40&EraId=15

Sorry bud. I hate the Bears. And the rump of the FRR went full retard back in the 3070's when they let them in and kicked C* out. Seems like you're focusing on a DA force, so I'd use newer GB designs like the Ursus II, Karhu, Vulture Mk III, etc.

For the omnis, since you're already loading up on missile carriers, I would use the heavy hitting direct fire loadouts and also use them to carry some battle armor.

Ghost Bears don't use C3 even though they build it. In fact the GB variant of the JES he's using tears it out for more ammo.

...

>no Yazan
0/10

The problem with the master unit list is it doesn't tell you which machines a faction actually makes, so all the generic and public market stuff get mixed in with equal quantity. Try skimming through the TRO's and seeing who makes what for the fluffiest forces. If you want something that screams a certain faction anyway.

Otherwise you could end up with something like a force of nothing but Diamond Shark gear which the Bears would have access to but doesn't really serve as a good Bear force.

Who is the best Drac Samurai and why is it young Ron Perlman?

>Char Aznable, Battlemaster

I guess its sorta close to a Zaku...

Hopefully they at least painted the mini red/pink.

It's Zeta battalion user, clearly it would be blinged out in gold.

Maybe if they'd used Quatro instead of Char.

doesn't he go back to calling himself Char after a certain point in Zeta anyway?

If they were such big weebs, why did original battletech hate Asians so much?

It always amused me that the battletech team decided that they needed not one, but TWO different Yellow Peril factions.

two words: Rust. Belt

Any more of these faction counter sheets out there?

Hey, the Cappies were more Red Scare than Yellow Peril at first.

It was the pre-Bubble era, and Japan was actually seen as a serious threat commercially at the time. Remember that Blade Runner is a product of the same era, where we were basically certain that a limited nuke exchange was gonna happen by the nineties and the Japanese and Chinese would take over the world economically in the aftermath.

yeah, they even split into space Red China and space RoC who were perfectly reasonable folks, before getting colemanned

Yeah, this was a thing in a shitload of media at the time. Shadowrun's got a lot of elements of it too with all the Japanese megacorps.

What is the best factions/clans at urban combat or fighting in dense terrain like forests?