/l5rg/ Legend of the Five Rings General

>Mantis
Yoritomo sailors, maybe, but the Moshi are super conservative and are probably sticklers, and the Kitsune's big ettiquette breach is red meat, not skin contact. Hard to say about the Tsuruchi-- they aren't big on Bushido but manners are still a thing.

>Mantis
Only the sailors.
>The Crab
Only while they're on the wall. The art lies about that too, since it usually depicts them as half naked when they're known for using the heaviest, thickest, most comprehensive armor known to Rokugan.
>Scorpion
No. The art shows them as slutty, but the descriptions say otherwise. They appear orthodox, and since most of them are red herrings, they aren't going to be breaking traditional rules.
>Lion
No. The most staunchly traditional clan is not going to make exceptions in etiquette.
>Phoenix
No. Traditions empower shugenja, and they're otherwise orthodox and conservative.

>the Moshi are super conservative and are probably sticklers

Pic related.

>Lion

Well, I guess you can't really pretend that the Matsu doesn't exist.

For the scorpion, I can see them being a lot less invested in stuff like that for its own sake. They stick to the rules of etiquette in public because that's what they need to do to get anything done, but the degree to which any given scorpion actually CARES about those rules is probably much lower.

Poor art direction and artists ignoring the fluff has plagued l5r since forever, and that shit directly contradicts the Moshi's written fluff.

The Matsu are brash, but they do not ignore the rules of society. The only thing you could really say about them is that they're aggressive and hostile to everyone. They show open contempt for people who ignore the rules.

Considering how green that particular outfit is, we can blame Yoritomo whitewashing for it.
It would work as a Yoritomo Shugenja though. Y'know, because their brand new family can create a full 5 rank school in all three major areas in merely a generation or two.

I think the picture may also be a Stormrider, rather than a plain old shugenja, and they're all a little bit odd anyway-- dressing unconventionally is plausible even for a Moshi.

Or maybe dressing loosely and being touchy is not a big deal at all. Even the official fluff mentions it only on a side note and then leaves it dead in the dirt with the art.

>The Matsu are brash, but they do not ignore the rules of society.

Yet, they sure like to run around half-naked or with an in-your face midriff at the bare minimum.

The art is not representative of the fluff. And running around half naked means running around without armor, which is something only the deathseekers, seriously dirt poor ronin, and the unprepared would do.

That paragraph might be literally the only piece of fluff about the topic... and is heavily contested by scores of art showing samurai in loose clothes.

I mean, it is not like L5R fluff is so super-consistent it can be taken as granted.

I'd like to see even a single piece of fluff that contradicts that one.

Look, if you want to run Genzoman's L5R, more power to you. But the art is not and has never been the final arbiter on what the game's canon is. You'll never catch a Crane courtier in this outfit in actual fluff.

Splay the pussy.

Scorpions don't know how to finger a woman, it is known.

Uhm... character descriptions? I dunno, I'm not high on L5R fiction, but the art must come from -somewhere-.

It is also worth noting that even if the rule is up, it doesn't mean that anybody really cares to respect it. The Phoenix supposedly loathes maho, and it is super-forbidden for them according to the fluff, yet they practice it every sunday or so. In L5R, you have rules because breaking/ignoring them what builds character in Rokugan.

Now you're just grasping at non-existent straws.
Here's the description of Bayushi Kachiko, the sluttiest slut to ever slut (At least according to her CCG art):
Kachiko was always dressed in the finest silks and wore a thin veil as a mask. Her kimono were always cut to hint the sleek figure. Kachiko answered every question with another question or a cryptic answer. She was fond of flirting with the Rokugani aversion of touching. [1] She would manage to keep her beauty through years, using elixirs and ointments of the Asahina and Agasha. [2]

She's one of the most infamous seductresses ever, and all she does is "flirt" with the aversion to touching and wear a kimono that sits a little tighter than normal. Pic related is her official art from the RPG.
The vast majority of the art does not represent the setting at all. Not even just clothing. A lot of weapons, armor, and locations in the art do not match their actual given descriptions.

I was thinking more along the line of descriptions about, say, the not!Irish Matsu chick with the speshul lion and the boobstraps.

I'm well aware of the nature of the storytelling disaster that is Bayushi Kachiko. I even read the Scorpion Clan War novel, from beginning to end, and I shit you not here.

Speaking of my plans for miniature wargaming, anyone got a decent map of Rokugan for strategic purposes? Ideally it would have the following characteristics:

Names of locations and places instead of numbers pointing to a book.

No Faction coloration or borders (that will change regularly).

Best case scenario: comes as some sort of object based map file where editing can be done without physics

*without pixels

Above is one of the better maps I found.

One issue with both of these: aren't the Fox Clan supposed to live right next to a forest? WHERE'S THE KITSUNE MORI.

>WHERE'S THE KITSUNE MORI.
"The Scorpions looted the entire fucking forest!"

Leg day every day... arms day never.

Also what the fuck is that weapon, it looks like an over sized metal tambourine that's been filled with lead and attached to a stick.

Forget it, user, it's Genzo.

L5R has been consistent on the subject for four editions of the rpg.

The art was considered to sell the game better with sexy, partially naked women.

>I even read the Scorpion Clan War novel
>reading any of the l5r novels
I truly feel sorry for your apparent inability to completely forget they exist, but you should try.

...

What the actual fuck is that bat.

It's a dildo. Don't you recognize the clit stimulator?

She's looking for a guy, however. How does that help?

The dildo isn't for her.

Oooooh.

iirc, the idea is to have the same social effect as a jitte (Meaning association with authority and law enforcement), but also be a somewhat better weapon.

>"excuse me, honored samurai-ko, why is your face a completely different aesthetic to that of the man in your poster? have you somehow offended the kami that they cursed you with such awful art?"

Mang are you sure you want to say that to the face of someone armed with a fuckoff dildobat

That's funny, but Rokugan is kinda an ethnic hodgepodge of what were various yobanjin tribes before the Kami showed up.

It's OK, I'll just use Genzo's fucked up perspective to stay out of her reach.

How do you fix the Void Seer so that they can actually cast spells, /l5rg/?

That'd be a good argument if all minor clans didn't have five rank schools now. Now you can just handwave it as most of that shit already existed before Great Clan status.

Give them the Void Versatility advantage.

I like to pretend that it's a brazier on a pole used for heating corridors so that my brain doesn't explode from the idea that something that stupid looking could possibly be a weapon.

If she tilts it just a little further, all the coals will come spilling out.

Doesn't work. You need void affinity for void versatility, and void seers have no affinities.

That's nice, but "fixing" something implies changing the current rules to make it work differently/better.
And that's how I'd change the rules to make it better.

You mean Void Mystic?

Homebrew '[Element] Versatility' for them. For xp and appropriate roleplay, they can garner the attention of a given element's kami.

I think that's Mario, not Genzo.

There any rules for foreigners? Never played L5R, I can't see myself convincing my group to play L5R, but I'd like to take a look all the same. I know the unicorn clan are basically half-mongols, but that's it. Same for any magic they use, I guess.

There's a whole game dealing with the Burning Sands, the desert lands north of Rokugan.

Legend of burning sands? Ta.

Burning Sands, Ashalan, Yodotai, Yobanjin, Ivory Kingdoms - all have at least a technique in various places. Maybe something for Gaijin (Thrane?), but probably not.

There's a tiny bit of rules for the Yobanjin tribes up north (About the same amount of mechanics as any given clan), but other than that, not really. A couple of the other types of foreigners might have one or two little things scattered about. The Unicorn have some groups within them that are heavily influenced by their foreign roots, but it's a game about Rokugan first and foremost, with the rest of the world a distant non-issue or actively hostile "kill on sight" enemies in most eras and most playgroups.

The stereotypical perspective of Rokugani samurai is "kill on sight", but in practice you're still dealing with thinking, reasoning people. If there's no immediate threat, little chance of trouble, and no glory to be found in killing, then a fair number of samurai are more amenable to less violent means.

Which is how the Dragon established an emissary in Medinaat Al-Salaam, the Phoenix/Crane/Dragon trade with the Yobanjin, the Phoenix have a village to contain half-caste Rokugani/Yobanjin, not everyone tried to kill the Ujik-hai when the Unicorn returned to Rokugan, Rama Singh could establish his worthiness to the Mantis, and so on, and so on ...

>The Dragon established an emissary
meh
>Trade with the Yobanjin
Borderline illegal crossing into actually illegal if any Yobanji traders come into Rokugan
>Phoenix village
Literally illegal without imperial approval. Imperial approval probably not that hard to get, given that they're half-Rokugani, but still.
>Ujik-hai
Nobody knew anything about the Unicorn when they returned. People only found out about the Moto after they'd settled in and it was too late.
>Rama Singh
Illegal, although him proving himself worthy of being a samurai paradoxically makes it less illegal after the fact.
>and so on
Most of it is stuff that a petty Emerald Magistrate could have a field day with.

Also, the Moto were recruited by a Kami, and the Kami supercede a mortal emperor. It's why Shinjo could do whatever the fuck she wanted when she came back and took all the cool swords away because everyone was being a shit.

>most of that
Meh. I disagree, but don't care to trade shit flinging. RYW.

By declaration of Hantei VIII, all trade with gaijin is to stop entirely and all gaijin within Rokugan are to be put to death. Period. No emperor afterwards has rescinded this declaration.
The Clan champion of the Tortoise goes to each and every new emperor, explains their secret duty, then offers full sepukku for their clan's crimes. They aren't even secretly pardoned for it, the emperor just refuses to punish them and ignores it from that moment forward.
Samurai who have gaijin artifacts or trinkets explain it away as trophies, unusual art, "unknown origins", or (In the case of the Unicorn) their own clan's work.

Compliance with the law is subjective, but the law itself is clear and simple. No Gaijin, no gaijin trade, kill 'em all if they get inside the border.

Sure. And, like perfect compliance with Bushido in real world situations, sometimes it's just not a simple matter to follow imperial law without giving a moment's thought. Samurai are people first, no matter how hard some try to be robots.

Also, given you seem relatively well acquainted with L5R, you should already know that creative thinking and slippery presentation trumps blind adherence 9 times out of 10, if not 10/10. You'd have to be an idiot to talk about events in such a simple, incriminating manner as .

I'm new to L5R, but in an entertainment/companionship culture dominated by geisha, who are more or less supposed to be strictly performers, where do courtesans, oiran, tayuu and other such prominent actual prostitutes stand in the world of Rokugan? Do such roles exist, or has their social function been split between geisha and nondescript ladies of the night?

They're not exactly spoken of, and you're free to RYW it.

Neato. That means there's nothing in the lore to stop me from having my oiran dochuu.

>L5R has been consistent on the subject for four editions of the rpg.

Wrong. 4th Edition is the first and only edition that talks about modest clothing... and it is also the edition where lewd clothing is everywhere on the arts.

1st and 2nd Edition only says that samurai wear silk kimono. 3rd Edition jumps over clothing completely, not mentioning it even in the Etiquette section.

So I heard there's a new winter court this year, but I also heard the last one was rigged and bias to anyone not traditionalist...

Should I consider taking part or is AEG too bad to trust them as GMs. I want to do a pbp and the Idea of fucking around inside a canon event would be hilarious.

AEG is dead, samurai-sama.
WC5 is a fan thing, keeping the tradition going whilst FFC decide what the fuck to do with the RPG.

There are rules for ivory kingdoms kshatriya and sanike gurus in the Second City box.

There is no Winter Court 5, its a fan project led by die hard "Walk the light" Spider players upset that the evil clan decided to be evil. Their the big reason why the Susumu family, THE evil courtier family, is now Iweko cocksuckers based on the last fictions due to their insistence that their good guy Spider characters matter with the story team.

When spider players were given the choice of winning the game and taking the throne were arguing that Spider should go back to being the Iweko footstools and losing everything that made them cool.

As a spider CCG guy I followed Wintercourt 4's spider delegation until they tried to sell out the Goju and get them all killed off because "our loyalty is to the empire" bullshit. It immediately got ret - conned in the next fiction immediately after they tried though but that stupidity made me forget that noise, and then all I heard was nonsense from that court afterwards.

They wanted to replace Daigotsu worship with Emma-O, condemned the taint openly in court the minute a real spider player tried to argue an upside to, you know... the whole freaking point of the Spider clan, made up a fake belief that Michio and the Order of the Spider thought that being tainted was a weakness and not part of Shourido despite Daigotsu being the definition of the thing and openly tried to seize control of the conversation in the Spider forum, shutting down dissent and complaining until they were finally knocked down by barely getting a quarter of the clan vote.

Bottom line, if you like Spider clan in any way steer clear of this one. They make this board's hatred of the Spider look like nothing.

>Most of it is stuff that a petty Emerald Magistrate could have a field day with.

Funny that you mention Emerald Magistrates.

From the Charter of the Emerald Magistrate, pp. 05-06 of the Player's book from the City of Lies boxed set:

Part Two: Duties: Section Two: Authorizing Travel Papers:

"It is the duty of the Emerald Magistrate to make him- or herself available at least one day a week to sign Imperial travel documents. Such documents are required only in the following instances:
- for persons who intend to travel across two different clan boundaries;
- for persons who require an open pass to all points within the Emerald Empire;
- for persons whose travel papers are to remain valid longer than one year but not longer than fives years;
- or for residents who are not native to Rokugan."

Well, well, well, look at that last clause.

Isn't that a fun little discovery! And baked right into the duties of the Emerald Magistrates, no less.

>made up a fake belief that Michio and the Order of the Spider thought that being tainted was a weakness

Actually, the Spider Monks Do consider taint a weakness. It's right in the RPG fluff for them.

Which doesn't line up at all with them having techniques that are better for the tainted...but yeah. L5R devs.

>I also heard the last one was rigged and bias to anyone not traditionalist

>implying rigged

giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?399840-Winter-court-4-of-L5R

Is this post true?

That's some impressive butthurt you have there, Spider-san. You might want to get it treated.

Do something about your massive problem with hyperbole while you're at it, neh?

>made up a fake belief that Michio and the Order of the Spider thought that being tainted was a weakness
No, that's actually a thing. They consider it a crutch or means by which the weak may grasp at power rightfully beyond their reach. Daigotsu was severed from his taint by Emma-O, proving he did not need rely on it.

>Which doesn't line up at all with them having techniques that are better for the tainted
Doesn't really sway it one way or the other, imo.

They can do more with taint, but their beliefs still stem from wanting to prove themselves strong without aid.

Let's not forget that City of Lies includes a no-shit gaijin geisha lady, Magda. She has to have her residency papers signed yearly by the local Emerald Magistrate(s) and can't really leave Ryoko Owari, but she is a noted and respected part of city life (as far as geisha go, anyway) Foreign entertainers of all sorts are common sights at the house she runs.

Show me one fiction or source where that is stated clearly, preferably before last year when this nonsense. We had a guy on the Spider forum go through every fiction of Michio and that was never mentioned, only his respect for Daigotsu's strength during the destroyer war and his weird edgy "I'm my own man" thing.

The Order of the Spider was untainted NOT because it was some weird view they had, but because of the necessity of having untainted agents in the empire. That was the point of their founding when Daigotsu decided to go the "diy a great clan" method until the end of Race for the Throne.

The idea that it was a massive held belief didn't become a talking point until WC4, when they were trying to confirm their nonsense.

Hey, if the Scorpion clan delegation at Winter court decided to remove themselves from all forms of manipulation and deceit the Scorpion are known for, actively work to force the clan to lose the masks and become the completely honest clan while trying to sell out the Shosuro as ninjas and remove them only to complain that they were ret-con Scorpion players would be just as upset. Anyone would.

And none of what I said was wrong. I know a couple of their shrills hangs out here so I'll assume your one.

Hell look at their story for WC5.
>Kanpeki conquers the empire announced by AEG.
> WC5 Team declares to follow clan choices
> Writes that monks fight their way into the spider camp and steal Kanpeki's child
> Raises it into a Michio "Taint=bad" clone, pushing that rhetoric to the max
> Start calling Shiabatsu "The dark prince", making all the clans automatically treat it all as legitament
> Make him somehow purify the taint from Otosan Uchi, then defend it from the hoards of Kanpeki because winter.
> Make it so that the Spider win their major battles NOT because they were strong, but the emperor was going mad and made stupid decisions
> Spider does NOT conquer the empire, does not rule rokugan but a separate "onyx empire consisting of the middle part of rokugan"
> Claim the game is about the "9 Great Clans" while then explaining that Kanpeki's Spiders are outsiders and not the "great clan" they were talking about.
> Write multiple refernces of Kanpeki claiming the traitor Susumu are "strong" for betraying him "Oh look even KANPEKI thinks were cool"
> Inform prospective tainted spider players that if they use their powers at all they will die as its suicidal.
> Somehow this meets the majority clan choice of "Embrace the Darkness"...

Hell, not only have they gone above and beyond to legitimize their "walk the light path" but they ignored any real aspect of Onix edition and downplay the majority of a clan's fanbase for their special OC character bullshit.

The Spider are faggots.
Many of the Spider fans are massive faggots.
You seem like less of a faggot, so it's a shame you threw in with them. Would have been fine if AEG had stuck with the horde or the Lost.
But you're still a bit of a faggot.

I realize there's not much substance to this post, and apologize, but I feel like reminding everyone that the Spider are faggots is never wasted effort.

>Claim the game is about the "9 Great Clans"
>9
>implying there's more than 7
top kek

What do we say to page 11?

Hey, I understand man. I liked Hordes as well, I just didn't rage quite in Celestial like a lot of others did. Emperor wasn't TERRIBLE with a Great Clan Spider, we had Dark Paragons and Goju which were awesome, but the monks were bland and the commanders pointless.

Being conquerors was cool for a bit, but story continued to just shit on everything.

Ivory was TERRIBLE, and the low point of everything. There was a tremendous amount of shadowlands silver bullet cards, but Spider wasnt strong enough to warrent them so we got destroyed everywhere. I remember a few seasons with not a single Kotei win. We finally got a Susumu deck, only for them to change damn design choices half way through the year, destroying their deck entirly. The deck also had zip flavor, a waste honestly. We also had fear which was stupid as shit and our gimmick, conqueror, was given more to other clans who were able to do it better.

The whole point of the last year of the CCG, before the sale, was to set up for Onyx edition. the head of AEG decided that Great Clan spider took 90% of the flavor out of them. Being a Great Clan under the Iweko involved the coolest parts of the clan, the evil stuff, having to be hidden or else the set up wouldnt work. Its why Goju were they only really tainted deck Spider could use. If Spider WANTED to use Oni they litterally killed themselves because of the honor loss associated with it. Something HAD to change, and soon. Surveys over the past 3 years on fan sites and the facebook pages for the game showed Spider as one of the top 3 played clans and we had the loudest presense. Hell, a year into the wait for the LCG and Spider clan Forums is one of the only few still holding out.

cont...

This was their way of creating the merging of Hordes with its oni, chuda, and other tainted monstrocities with the origional goal of the Spider clan, fucking evil as shit super samurai. In one set, the one where Kanpeki says "Fuck this" and powers up we go from just samurai, monks, and a few goju to having Kokujin everywhere, Chuda summoning oni, Ogres force dueling the shit out of people and the Goju going absolutly nuts. The next year's themes for decks was revealed to be Undead Legions and Chuda blood magic as we seized tainted Otosan Uchi, and the empire. The year after that, set well into Kanpeki's rule? Dark Paragons that functioned like the old Oni hordes of old, smaller number but insane powerlevel samurai that could 1v1 armies, and Obsidian Magistrates with their Oni hunting hounds.

In many ways the Hoard was coming back in a big way, merging with the Spider clan to make one faction again, basically the Lost and their Oni hordes.

So the year of the Chuda, oni and Undead were the Hordes side as the empire was being defeated and the Lost side was the paragons and Obsidian magistrates who enforced the Emperor's. Light got about 25% of the vote, brand confirmed that meant that besides a few references, origionally Testsuo and a few Spider monks defected from the spider as an example, they were out of the major decisions, it was clear that the vast majority of the Spider clan wanted to be evil and align with Jigoku going forward, and since then those players acted like their 25% meant they were somehow going to seize control in the future, but nothing like that would happen, instead their complaining made Story team cause the Susumu to join the iweko as well, making us lose the courtiers... right as we were about to have an evil court for them to be relevant in.
Its fucking annoying, I just want to play evil samurai in a game about magical samurai without being Scorpion...

>since then those players acted like their 25% meant they were somehow going to seize control in the future
AEG made it pretty clear that the results of the votes weren't set in stone forever, and that there would continue to be votes.

If the light guys could find a way to swing enough votes their way, they had a chance at doing just that.

>I just want to play evil samurai in a game about magical samurai without being Scorpion
This (among other reasons) is why I think the Spider should have managed to split the empire in two, rather than taking over the whole thing. 4 clans + Seiken to the North, 4 clans + Shibatsu or Daigotsu's sprog to the South. Then let the dice roll.

That would involve having 3 other clans be forced to side with Kanpeki. When they voted paths almost every clan had a "side/tolerate the emperor for *Insert powerful offer*" and every clan declined, except the scorpion, who decided to split their clan into a civil war as Nitoshi would use the opportunity and shake up to side with Kanpeki to kill off the kolat 100% for good... which Story Team then ignored completely to make Nitoshi attempt to backstab Kanpeki to redeem Shoju's name and get punched so hard he exploded.

So no one voted to actually back the Spider, meaning that 3 clans would have had to been dragged into it, which the new Brand lead was against as he wanted to give more control to players of the directions of their clans.

Imagining ANY move towards abandoning Jigoku, after 3+ YEARS of Spider ruling their dark empire totally with the aid of Jigoku and somehow making them decide to give that shit up so your kind can play your "totally not scorpions" clan just wasn't going to happen. after 5 years of being a great clan, during the worst run of competitive spider period, they could only bring 25% of support. The idea that after three years of Spider being insane in the game, with fantastic options and a year predicted as the most powerful for shadowlands in a decade based on what sneak peaks we got... you thing any progress will be made on going backwards and LOSING stuff to gain, who knows what? That already happened user, it was called Goddess pt 4 and on, and it was a catastrophic failure for the setting, neutering the villain and removing the best parts of clans. Your kind can stamp their feet all they want but we both know that wasn't happening. Now you all get to watch the Monks and Susumu become some minor clan in a side bar in an rpg book somewhere.

When FFG takes hold, they will look for the villains and they will bring them back to their proper place.

>assmad ranting with caps
Yawn.
>Your kind
That shit and $2 will get you a coffee.

> Now you all get to watch the Monks and Susumu become some minor clan in a side bar in an rpg book somewhere.

Sweet. The Spider Monks have always been too cool to be tied to the Spider. There simply isn't another Sohei sort of monk school about, which is criminal.

>There simply isn't another Sohei sort of monk school about, which is criminal.
It is and it isn't. The Brotherhood has lots of sohei. Tengoku's Fist in BoF is a good starting point for a Monk school that gets bonuses with a Bisento, though I think they missed a beat by only having Jujitsu as a school skill.

iirc, the Spider are the only ones that get SAA with polearms.

Yup. You'd have to homebrew that much.

Which is a bit of a pity when SAA is really the cornerstone/basis of 'Good with this weapon' in L5R. If only due to being to actually charge in and attack in the same turn.

Something like the Lion paragon path would be good for monk weapons, come to think of it.

>When they sold the franchise, AEG requested that we finish as much as we can so we could leave the storyline in a good place for FFG. I'll be honest; most of the Story Team just quit right there. It was a pretty disheartening situation that really sapped a lot of motivation to write. But some of us kept writing anyway and... well, here it is.

>I know the metaplot is generally not well received here, and I know this document is not perfect. It's not how we wanted to end things, that's for sure. To wrap things up, we had condense months and months of gradually-revealed plot into a handful of fictions. Things that we wanted to have bigger impact and importance, just couldn't anymore (the whole Scorpion Clan story, for instance, was never designed to be written in one fiction and was far more nuanced than how it is presented here), and we still wanted to leave open plot hooks just in case FFG really did want to pick up from here. (I have no idea what they're planning, btw. They might decide to start over from scratch.)

>So I know it's not perfect and I know it's got flaws. But I really hope some of you enjoy it anyway. It's kinda sad for me to release these fictions knowing that they might be my last for L5R, wondering if I'd been a little better things would have gone differently. We spent a lot of months on this, not because we were asked, but because we wanted to. We wanted to give the L5R community a little closure. And speaking personally, I think I really needed some closure too.

>L5R helped me rediscover my love for writing. I felt like I was a part of something bigger than myself, and for the first time in a long time, I felt like I mattered. I'll always be grateful for that.

>Anyway. This post is longer than I intended. I hope you like it. I look forward to the future.

What is this from?