Imperium Asunder

And also, while I'm at it, I'm thinking about dudes:

>Baqar Hadbaal, First Captain of the 13th, The Storm Wolf
When the 13th Legion, then known by many names was reunited with Xun Tohilcoatl, it was Baqar Hadbaal who then commanded the legion.
Hadbaal was an efficient commander who had earned the name The Storm Wolf for his vicious encirclement tactics. The legion of his day struck hard and aggressively, and with a cunning that belied the savage trappings of their recruitment worlds.
In Baqar, Xun found a capable subordinate, able to coordinate legion campaigns. Baqar's technical expertise greatly aided Xun in his reorganization and Xun taught Baqar something of state craft, though Baqar personally preferred the life of a warlord.
After a time, Baqar was given a fleet of his own and given licence to conquer, with Xun reportedly saying "I would like to keep you at my side, but then, what would I do?"
Baqar's fleet served happily alongside fleets of the Warhawks legion, Void Lords, and Behemoth Guard during the later half of the Great Crusade, though he chafed under the leadership of Alexios during the Plaakat Compliance.
When the heresy broke out, Baqar's fleet was deep in Segementum Pacificus and the saga of his campaigns behind enemy lines and his eventually return to Xun's side is still the subject of legend in the Jade Empire.

Basically, I'm thinking he's Xun's Marius Gage, the guy who was doing a great job running a war, with the difference that Xun says 'keep up the good work, son' and sends him off with a renovated logistics corps.

>munchkin terms
Guilty as charged, though I am more thinking of the potential issue of the traitors having waaay more manufacturing capacity and having to explain why they don't steamroll the loyalists before they can get their own forges running.
Wait. Firewall. Boom. That was easy.

>Legio Cybernetica and friends
So I suppose if we're all cool with it, we can have more archaeotech functional.
The grimdark here isn't the tale of technological regression, it's that the Heresy never actually ended, it's been ongoing for 10,000 years with no end in sight, save for crazy plans by half mad scholars.
This isn't medieval Europe fumbling through the dark ages after the collapse of Rome, this is Warring States China and 1916's deranged love-child.

Heck, maybe we should make a radical group in the Fists of Mars obsessed with war-winning Wunderwaffen.
It's 11:59 and everyone is planning their gambits to break the stalemate and whatever happens, it'll make the Somme look like a picnic.

I AM ALIVE.

I'm expanding on the 13th Crusade too. Just got some of the Loyalist participants right now:

LOYALIST BELLIGERENTS

>Storm Kingdom

Legion Assets: 03rd Battalion, 06th Battalion, 09th Battalion.

Successor Chapters: Thunderers, Interdictors, Tempest Blades, Executioners.

Realm Guard: Aquila Guard, TBC.

>Unyielding Vigil

Legion Assets: 01st Battalion, 04th Battalion, 05th Battalion, 08th Battalion, 10th Battalion.

Successor Chapters: Adamantine Knights, Sentinels, White Lions, Shield Bearers, Hands of the Immortal, Sin Eaters, Iron Regents.

Realm Guard: Grogan Steelheads, TBC

>The Forgespace

Legion Assets: 04t Battalion, 05th Battalion, 07th Battalion, 09th Battalion, 11th Battalion.

Successor Chapters: N/A

Realm Guard: 03rd Rynnic Macroclade, 01st Talonic Macroclade, The Legiones Skitarii of Syrinx III, 03rd Macroclade of Tarsis Ultra, 02nd Fulcrum Macroclade, 03rd Fulcrum Macroclade, The Legiones Skitarii of Domovok.

Titan Legions: Ophilius Legion, Machaon Legion, Domovok Legion.

>Imperium Minorum

Legion Assets: None.

Successor Chapters: Illuminators, Seraphim.

Realm Guard: None

>Crimson Warhawks

Legion Assets: Strike Fleet Hannibal.

Realm Guard: N/A
Also working on some more Realm Guard. A lot of whom I thought up while imagining how the 13th Crusade went.

>Heck, maybe we should make a radical group in the Fists of Mars obsessed with war-winning Wunderwaffen.
>It's 11:59 and everyone is planning their gambits to break the stalemate and whatever happens, it'll make the Somme look like a picnic.
I can dab to this.

You had mentioned the Dust Striders in reference to the Scions, and I thought that Funerary Guard had a nice ring to it.

>Storm Kingdom
>Realm Guard: Aquila Guard, TBC.
And Brimstone Fire-Eaters.

>Unyielding Vigil
>Realm Guard: Grogan Steelheads, TBC
Also Karadon Cold Ones.

>The Forgespace
Don't forget House Hekaton and Samar Archangels.

>Imperium Minorum
>Realm Guard: None
House Hidalgos too.

Also, it's Grogan Thunderheads, not Steelheads. Don't confuse them with the Tor Ironheads who are the polar opposite.

I'm not listing all successors/realm guard here, just ones that took part in the 13th Crusade. Didn't see the Samar Archangels, they new?

Also I fucking fuck ffffff put the Grogan Thunderheads in the Imperium Minorum bit by mistake, then I got their name wrong when I put them in the right place goddammit.

>Not having Brimstone Fire-Eaters or House Hidalgos involved
Pic related

The Samar Archangels don't have an entry yet, they're currently in "Greentext followed by a hook on the thread" format. Speaking of which...

It's that time of day again! Pick one, any one, I'll write its summary!

>Zaphnath Sun Soldiers
Space Egypt, no relation to the fucking necrons goddammit, specialize in infantry combat.

>Samar Archangels
Space Parajumpers/Airborne, specialize in drop assault and rescuing stranded soldiers.

>Palatine Lionhearts
Space Bretonnia/Medieval Europe, mounted charge, mercenaries.

>House Hemaglutin
Nurgle knights

Spoonfeed me on the 13th Crusade. What's it's deal? Why are people fighting?

To cycle back to what was discussed in the last thread,
>Oathsworn
We're thinking they do gene-tech as their cool trick.

More like Dire Ogryn, or more like Gene-Forged Bears?
Or more like a small legion of gene-forged champions backed by a support Cadre?
(Or all three, really.)
Maybe they have a bear thing going on. The ranking officers get augmentation from the medicae staff, and with it get cooler bling. But it also makes them more prone to X, the dreaded flaw, so they have to be accompanied by their Oathsworn retinue.
If Kor and Knights Exemplar are KNIGHTS IN SPACE, then these guys are Anglo-Saxon Wereræd IN SPACE.
Beowulf and his retainers as opposed to the Knights of the Round.
That would explain their obsession with oaths and also maybe why Faustus refuses to retreat.

Pic related.

Hmm. I'm seeing Zaphnath is in the Jade Empire and I've been looking for some Auxiliae for them.
What do people think of space Egyptians armed with the Holy trinity of flamers, melta, and volkite?

Their drop ships are like solar barges and they use light APCs like chariots, maybe?

I'm not too keen on leaning WAAAAAAAAAAAY into Egyptian tactics. Myths involving a boat and a Sun-Emperor, yeah, but not APCs like chariots. I like the holy trinity though.

I more meant that they used fast APCs, like the Salamander, a forgeworld 5 man transport, rather than a slow, grinding gorgon.
Fast like a chariot, not literally a chariot.

Maybe the march everywhere, because they're not pussies.

Assuming the 13th crusade follows the 12th crusade, there are a whole bunch of freshly founded and blooded Angels of Light successor chapters eager to prove their worth on the battlefield of a crusade so they can earn enough honors and tithe worlds necessary to seize control as Alexios' successor.

>real men walk
>laughing Tor Ironhead

Makes sense.
And I suppose due to They've still got sexy jet bikes. Hell yeah.

>>real men walk
>>laughing Tor Ironhead
Beautiful. You're getting in the mood.

>Legion Assets: Strike Fleet Hannibal.

Just for accuracy ill pass on the naming conventions and Legion Structure.

So Legion Org is:

>1. High Command
Primarch -> Brotherhood Council (chapter ancients & senior officers) -> Legion Representatives (Consuls) -> Legion Honour Guards (Name pending)

>2. 1-10 Divisions (equiv of a Chapter)
Lord-Commander -> Flagship (Strike Cruiser usually) -> Armoury -> Escort Craft -> 3x Strike Battalions -> Librarium -> Apothecarium -> `1x Support Squadron (artillery battery/armoured combat team)

>3. Strike Battalion
Strike-Captain -> Battalion Fleet (cluster of Frigates & Destroyers) -> Navigators -> Tech Marine Covenants -> Apothecarium Detachment -> 2x Sabre Companys & 1 Lance Squadron

>4a. Sabre Company
Commander -> 3-5x Strike Teams -> techmarine covenant -> Apothecarion team -> Fleet Assets enough to enable mobility (Frigates & Destroyers)

>4b. Lance Squadron
Wing-Commander -> 3-5 Fire Raptor Wings -> 1-2 Storm Birds.

>5. Strike Team
Sergeant -> 4-9 Battle Brothers -> Storm Raven

I posted the kickoff for it later.

>13th Crusade (M42): Chaos warbands of the Behemoth Guard, the Judgement Bringers, and the Arms of Asura, gathering across Segmentum Tempestus for years in preparation, converge on the Providus Sector of the Unyielding Vigil, just below the Firewall. After a mercifully brief series of battles, the Crusade appears to crumple, and the Loyalist forces chase their foes through the upper arch of the Segmentum, hoping to rout their enemies and deal a significant blow to the Warmaster's forces. Soon after these forces set sail, the Warp becomes turbulent, and the Silver Spears appear to strike at key targets within the Loyalist ranks. The Traitor Legions previously thought scattered turn to continue the fight, additional enemy forces revealing themselves to be waiting amidst the Tempestus, and the Crusade transforms into a protracted game of cat-and-mouse that stretches on through the first segment of M42.

Didn't realize that. I put the Seraphim Guard and the Illuminators on their own there with the idea that they were already in the main battle zone, and the Crusade just sort of kicked off with them in there.

Excellent.

>later

Uhhh... earlier.

>Seraphim Guard and the Illuminators
By the way these are cool Chapter Names and I'm gonna fluff em up

Thule Rime-Guard
Thule IVc 'Nanuk' is a cold world of frost-rimed stone beaches and snow covered pine forests in orbit of a blue-tinged ammonia gas giant, Thule IV. Nanuk is primarily involved in the production of krill and support for the refinery operations on Thule, as well as providing the core and training for the Rime Guard regiments. These form the core of the Sky Serpents Auxiliae Air Cavalry. The pilots are recruited from the transport pilots of Thule Station, while the jump troops themselves are drawn from rig workers and the ice raiders. When the Rime Guard deploy in support of the legion, pilots trained to fly in the storm winds and ring systems of a gas giant launch en masse to screen legion operations. Since the unaugmented human pilots cannot hope to match, or even survive, the maneuvers of the Astartes, they are equipped with slower craft which emphasize durability over speed, with craft such as Thunderbolts, Valkyries/Vendettas, and the Marauder class bombers. Through numbers and durability, they are able to make up for their lack of speed. During landings, these air support squadrons can be called upon to provide additional firepower, strike targets, diversionary or outside of the legion advance. In addition, infantry squads can be deployed to fortify landing zones and support legion advance.
These squads are traditionally equipped like Solar Auxilia regiments, but with additional provisions for air-dropped heavy weapons and lighter armor variants for drop troops.

Sarco did not know where he was. It was cold, and dark. Silence surrounded him, except for the telltale hum of a gellar field. The last thing he remembered... an Eldar titan, swinging at him with its massive sword. He had stayed to fight it so Engerand would have time to plant the explosives and destroy the alien shrine. Had he died? Was this crushing darkness what awaited the living when they passed beyond the veil?

+++Subject awakening+++
+++Administering stimulants+++

Green text appeared in Sarco’s vision and he recognized that it was similar to the tactical feed featured in his sons’ helmets. The primarch was jolted awake and only then realized that he had previously been half asleep. What was going on? His mind was still fuzzy from his slumber. Whatever stimulants were being used on him, they did not seem to be working as he felt himself drift back to a comatose state. He would have been content staying that way for a while, but a golden figure appeared in his mind’s eye. It spoke to him.

“My son.”

“Father?”

“My son, you must awaken. You are needed urgently.”

Sarco’s mind was still too groggy to fully comprehend what was going on, but he knew he must heed his father. He dragged himself from rest and once he was sure that he was fully awake, the tactical feed appeared once more.

+++Subject awakened+++
+++Performing system diagnostics…
…
…
+++Diagnostics complete+++
+++Gravity cannon: fully armed+++
+++Power claw: fully armed+++
+++Plasma generator output: 100%+++
+++Armor integrity: 100%+++

The Illuminators are a Twenty-First founding chapter of the Angels of Light, forged in the fires of battle against the Tau and the Paladins of Kor. Their base of operations is the battle barge Brightest Star, once personal vessel to the White Angel himself. The Illuminators are lead by Chapter Master Kyril Pastor, an implacable leader unacquainted with defeat.

Favoring Plasma and flamer weaponry, a strafing run from Illuminators jetbikes often leaves little but burning slag and charred corpses.Their battlecry is "His light is my beacon" and their armor is painted the luminous yellow hue of holy Terra's sun, trimmed in gold and white. Their emblem is a golden lantern, shining with rays of light.

Noice.

I definitely imagined a flamer focus when I named these guys. I like to think they have specialized Assault Squads that are just four dudes with flamers and one with a heavy flamer.

Also, while I'm at it, I'm working on
>Jaguar Warriors
Elite legion terminators, a refinement of Baqar Hadbaal (see ) terminators. They typically deploy by teleportation. They're the dudes you send in to butcher everyone in the room and then move on, so they've got power macahuitls and volkites. Instead of regular frags, they have rad grenades in their grenade harnesses and rad missiles launchers and heavy (chem?) flamers instead of the more typical autocannon.
They may also have combat shields, but I'm not sure. Leaning towards Tartaros armor, just because it fits the legion vibe--when the legion fields cataphractii, it's with all heavy weapons. They're draped in jaguar pelts and their shields are bedecked in feathers.

>Eagle Warriors
Maybe these are the heavy weapon terminators, autocannons, assault cannons, and stranger, more esoteric weapons in cataphractii plate.

I may reverse that.

>Shorn Ones
The high intensity warfare dudes. They're the hammer blow. Where the rest of the Legion says withdraw, then return, these guys say no backwards step.
You call them when that point needs to be taken five minutes ago. They're the ones with the Mastadons and Typhons and Glaives.
They're less than a particular unit than a formation in the legion--the Jaguar and Eagle Warriors would be units, but the Shorn ones of the Kwachike would be a rite of war.
They're clad in white, traditionally the color of death. I'll do up a sketch later.

Shouldn't the 13th Crusade be more apocalyptic? The 13th Black Crusade is supposed to be the final one, the one which will take Cadia, drive on Terra and topple the Imperium once and for all.

Here's a thought:

>13th Crusade (M42): After burning for 10,000 Years, the Firewall begins to break down. dozens of gaps appear in it, and Chaos Raiders surge east. The Crusader States, knowing that if it falls completely an unstoppable tidal wave of Chaos will wash over them, gather up their forces to strike first, hoping to beat Chaos to the Punch and drive directly on the Eye of Terra, perhaps managing to deliver a decisive blow to the Dark Imperium.

And trying my hand at artfagging.

Well, the idea I was going with is that it's just started, and it's already become shitshow. Nobody's quite aware yet of how huge this could become very quickly, just that it's going wrong off the bat and everyone's initial expectations about the conflict were way off.

It's meant to play on how the big bad guy this time is all about deception and uncertainty rather than massive punches. The Crusader States have been drawn into a horrible confusing interstellar Vietnam that looks to be growing into something worse.

>Am I kawaii, Warmaster Senpai?

Alright, I'm finally getting down to editing my wiki page. How do I put pictures into the right hand box? Also, I need to do something about the Scions' heraldry.

I'm gonna work on finishing this, I swear.

I think I'll name the ship they're on the Cypriot

I've been running up the numbers and came to the conclusion (excluding serfs) the chapter is at max like 40,000-50,000 strong. (And that's at its height).

any complaints to that, or should I attempt to make it bigger to bring it inline with traditional numbers.

Assuming you mean Legion and not Chapter, that puts them at mid range in relation to other legions. Seems to fit well to me.

>|Colours = [[File:File_Name_Here.png | 200px]]
>}}

If you want a smaller legion, go for it. Though it's worth noting that during the heresy and crusade Era, even the smallest star ships are described as having astartes crew, so you could potentially boost that by between 10 and 1,000 marines per ship. The World Eaters had 3 companies permanently assigned to the flagship as reserve.

I suppose if it's really small, there might be a reason, like gene seed instability, a supply problem, a disastrous campaign, or the like. Depends on your vision, really.

Shit, do you have the old legion picture on you? While I like pic related, I think we should have consistent legion pictures.

How do you upload said picture?

Once you create the dead link to the pic, you can click that link to upload it or change it.

Yeah I have them all, and I can make new ones if people want.

Can you do a mk. 8 torso with a corvus helmet, and maybe a slightly lighter shade of purple?

It can't really mix/match patterns. You just pick one from a list.

Here's a lighter purple and grayer grey, plus more green.

Fancier

Medium-er purple if that's too light

That one looks great, but perhaps you could replace the green shoulder trim with the same purple?

Fists here, Marcus Sinistrum's presence within the mechanicus changed a great many things. For starters to the mentions of the large amount of forge worlds within traitor space, it should be remembered that when mars fell the order was given to destroy forge worlds as they were abandoned in the retreat. The traitors still would have captured many but the fists of mars took what they could then destroyed what was left behind. There was no slow technological regression but a terrifying instant of great loss.

>maybe we should make a radical group in the Fists of Mars obsessed with war-winning Wunderwaffen.

sorry i dont know what Wunderwaffen means so no comment.

next time we update the map can someone rename Taris ultra to Taris Sinister, it's the homeworld of the fists and where sinestrums brain now lives

>>Cont

last thread i was asked
>How do they feel about the legions that keep fighting the Long War?
The fists fully support the long war and themselves continue the fight best they can although they rarely take to the field of battle independently, you are most likely to see them when they deem another legion's efforts to be lacking or insufficient. that being said they are highly active during crusades and are hell bent on retaking the lost forge worlds
>Do they defer to the Fabricator General or are they taking over in matters of dogma and policy?
They took over a great time ago, during the life of sinistrum he was considered a divine agent of the the Machine God and his words were treated with reverence, as such he penned the "Sinister Accords" in which, along with many other things, he named the fists of mars as sacred protectors of the machine cult. After the death and during the new life of sinistrum where once the Fists and the Mechanicus where a harmonises machine now they are two factions, prone to arguments and struggles for control. Both sides believe they have the right and wisdom to lead but cannot live without the other.
>Do they support a specific variant of machine doctrine or are they just the protectors of the Mechanicum?
not really sure what to say about this one but the above answer should give something of an answer
>In the prime universe, Manus and Gorillaman invent the Sicaran. Is Sinistrum the sort to do that or is that heresy?
Sinistrum was responsible for many machines of war, he probably had his hands in a few standard designs and i may make up a few of my own for him
> How about Xun sticking a volkite on everything he sees?
Totally fine with it if not encouraging, over reliance on one design can be a fault but the spirit is good

I would really love to answer any other questions people might have so please ask.

...

Perfect.

>sorry i dont know what Wunderwaffen means so no comment.
Superweapons. Arms races and all that.

...

>They took over a great time ago, during the life of sinistrum he was considered a divine agent of the the Machine God and his words were treated with reverence, as such he penned the "Sinister Accords" in which, along with many other things, he named the fists of mars as sacred protectors of the machine cult. After the death and during the new life of sinistrum where once the Fists and the Mechanicus where a harmonises machine now they are two factions, prone to arguments and struggles for control. Both sides believe they have the right and wisdom to lead but cannot live without the other.
I like this.

Thats the problem you see, the organisation has every ship double as a transport for at least a strike team.

I mean I could just bump up the numbers but sticking within fluff descriptions of frigates / destroyers / and Strike Cruisers it leaves the chapter at around 40k.

I might just do that though, because there is no reason for it to be super small, except for the fact they are outriders.

Do I need to log in to upload a picture? That's dumb.

And how often do they fight the other Crusader States?

Did we ever come up with an official color scheme for the Arms of Asura?

I don't think so, but I can dig the orange.

Nice.

That's a good point about the sudden loss of arcana. I'm thinking it means that legions have access to whatever it is that they were really in to, like Angels of Light having full access to jet bikes in M41 or the Undying Scions having all the dreadnought tech. The legions with bases in the east also have stuff survive more intact, but because of the retreat, a lot of localized arcana has been lost or reduced in scale, like Ryza and plasma.
So thanatars are still around and used with any number of weapons, and plasma cannons still exist, but without Ryza, large plasma weapons are very rare and much higher maintenance.
So more issues with production facilities and machining tolerances, because while the Fists got a lot of magi and data out of the West, they couldn't take their prototypes, labs, and carefully calibrated archaeotech production facilities.

The East innovates to fill the gaps--they have to, the enemy is at the Gates and this is still 30k, where Sinistrum and Xun and Alexios make new designs, but where the prime universe has a million funky ancient local patterns and arcane shit, our dudes have to make do with losses of key areas of advanced archaeotech.
So post heresy, the only people who have the mass production capacity for jetbikes are the Angels of Light. Other forces have them and can still make new ones, but they don't have the lines geared for them because the techniques to build the forge to mass produce such things were lost. Luckily, we can still ask Alexios to share and he might even let you build a production line, but it's going to take some trial and error to get the lines running smoothly and that could be centuries.

Sort of like that?

Yeah pretty much, I would say the Fists and Mechanicum have a bit more control over the tech going around, but yeah that's what i was thinking
The Fists and mechanicum agree that fixing the gaps in lost tech is of the highest priority and regularly demand to look into the tech of other legions which inevitably cause issues. They also cannot abide by the Kor's herasy.
Other than that i need to think more on the topic and ill come back to this

Heya everybody, Just going to let people know that if they want to write stuff for the knights i'd be okay with that, (School picked up and going's a little bit slow right now) Currently working on a timeline for the legion, is the 1d4chan pages update with the timelines that have been made so far? If not could i ask you all to do that as that would make that bit easier for everyone.

Also could someone bring me up to speed on the 13th crusade so far? What's been written, the premise of it and so.

see

Working on Legion organization of my own.
Sky Serpents do everything in base 20, which functions as paired units of 10 or 4 of 5 (1 squad, 4 razorbacks)

The legion is based on 20 man squads, arranged into companies of 20 squads.
There are 13 companies in a Tzolkin chapter, for a total of 5200 marines in a chapter. This functions as 1 command company and divisions of 3 or 4 companies, ie deploys on 3 or 4 strike cruisers or battle barges.
There's some number of these, I'm thinking 40+ for a total of 208,000 marines, not including specialists.

Interlocking with this, there are inter-Tzolkin organizations, ranging from the Jaguar Warriors to specialists in certain forms of warfare like the Shaved Ones (see )
They're like the warrior societies of the Iron Warriors.

In general, pairs of Tzolkin deploy for fleets of 3 battle barges and 4 strike cruisers plus support craft, for a total of 10,400 marines on any given campaign.

Go for it. I've been flipping through the HH books and it seems like the Ultramarines were one of the biggest at 250,000+, with the Alphas, Iron Warriors, and WB, at around 200,000.
Also it's worth noting that you can just make more divisions.

Bueno. I think this works out pretty well, since there's massive loss, partially compensated by innovation, which is couched in recovery to the hardliners. Feels right for the setting.

I suppose another question is how Sinistrum ends up in that jaregard.

Oh, how does he feel about the council of titans? Does he immediately push for Emperor as Omnissiah?

What was his position on Nikea and what did he think about the censures of Oramar and Rubinek?

Thanks, I think its safe to say the KE would march with the loyalist en mass, with their auxilliaries in tow.

Angels of Light legion organiztion:
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex_Astartes

Twenty thousand or so marines with a significant host of guardsmen at their back.

Again, the current idea for it is far too underplayed for the 13th, the big one, the Crusade of the End Times.

>Bueno. I think this works out pretty well, since there's massive loss, partially compensated by innovation, which is couched in recovery to the hardliners. Feels right for the setting.
Thank you i like it to
>I suppose another question is how Sinistrum ends up in that jaregard.
Well again theres a missing space i need help with here, Who comes to fight at mars?
>Oh, how does he feel about the council of titans? Does he immediately push for Emperor as Omnissiah?
Im only vaguely aware of the council of titans ( i missed a few threads) could you tell me about it? Sinistrum would push for Emperor as Omnissiah though
>What was his position on Nikea and what did he think about the censures of Oramar and Rubinek?
what are the censures of Oramar and Rubinek? As for Nikea, Sinistrum throws his lot in against the psykers, believing they were dangerous and unnecessary. Sinistrum believed he and the mechanicus could devise a better travel method if given time but understood that it would take much, much to long and be to much of a risk for him to really push the idea

oh and i agree verry much so with this point

I think the two aren't quite mutually exclusive. How's this:

>Firewall goes funny, flickering, warp turmoil
>traitor raids intensify
>containment forces sent, kick ass, go on the offensive
>it's a trap!
>retreat and retrench
>traitor counter-offensive is broken
>stalemate, meat grinder on 100 world
>cat and mouse fleet hunt begins in the fringes of the storms as people seek a way around
>both sides are pouring everything they can into the meatgrinder, because this is it, the big push
>meanwhile nids are showing up sporadically, disrupting traitor and loyalists alike

This way it's got that grinding futility to it, with neither side able to retreat, the hope of final victory, and both sides are exhausting themselves in it, hence why all the stops are being pulled out.

This crusade has stalled and it's been ongoing for a century +.

How's that?

I like that, not the guy you're replying to. How many of the crusades have been decided on?

Basically, post heresy, Malcador gets everyone together to try and make an Imperium Secundus. Problem is that Kor is being intransigent and Malcador is buddy buddy with Xun, cooking up an Imperial Cult.
It's fairly mild, more philosophical musings about trying to be like the enlightened Emperor than FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, but it is still them throwing out the Imperial Truth.
Add to that Malcador setting up warp beacons, inquisitors, and psyker daemon-hunters, and you've got a tense situation.

Part of it is that Kor can stand on principle and can thus influence Alexios among others.
Kor also starts to worry that Malcador is going to have him killed.
Malcador finally talks Kor down and convinces Sinistrum that psykers won't kill us all, at least enough to come to the council, but [Redacted] has him assassinated, while spreading disinformation about the hit.
Kor thinks Malcador faked it to turn everyone against him.
Xun hears it was Kor that killed Malcador out of paranoia.
There's also a version out there that an anti-psyker or anti-Imperial Cult primarch had it done.
Either way, talks break down and the moment is lost.

So the question is where Sinistrum stood on these issues, how he felt about Malcador and his programs, etc.

>Rubinek
He's the primarch of the Iron Hearts and gets purged because he uses Xenotech to repair his heart after it gets ripped out in battle. There's not much else on him atm, so this is in part an effort to flesh him out.

>Oramar
He's the primarch of the Warp Raiders.
He gets warned of chaos by xenos, but they bungle it. He obsessively collects artifacts and in trying to figure out how to fight chaos, he comes to the conclusion that only chaos can fight chaos and chaos is inevitable. So he turns to chaos figuring that his best bet is to unleash hell so that hell can contain itself. At first, he's doing it for humanity, but as time goes on, he ends up bat shit insane.
Anyways, before he turns into Malal fan boy...

I think 7?

Anyways, during the late crusade, Oramar is getting weirder and weirder. He's collecting spirit stones and enslaver tech. He's got some slaugth shit, too. It raises some eyebrows.
Then he shows some of his brothers some of the cool stuff he's found, the stuff that whispers with voices.
One of them narcs, Oramar isn't sure who, and Nikea is called, ostensibly as a review of the Librarius, but it's really Oramar's trial.
Some of Oramar's friends, like Xun, thinking it a review of the Librarius say that Oramar has kind of gone odd and that's not what the Librarius is.
As a result, he's horrified when Oramar is convicted and censured.
Oramar blames Xun for it all. Balthazar chuckles because he's the one that narced, and Oramar is sent home like Magnus, but vanishes into the warp before anyone can do anything.

>"The Eldar knew a truth that humans are only now beginning to dream of: Feelings have consequences. The eddies of the Great Ocean are born not by wind, but by the emotive essence of incalculable minds. The Warp is a place where thoughts go to mingle with their kin. All men should be wary of what they think, for those thoughts will one day come home to roost."

The Musings of Primarch Oramar, date unknown.

Is this pic accurate?

or maybe this one?

or this one?

Thanks Xun. First of all, Nikea I think iv put down enough for that here >Rubinek
It's a pity he had to die for it, we could have saved him given the chance, his purging was a great injustice

>Oramar
Oramar must die for his actions, the warp is no one's friend. Add to what i said above that while Sinistrum is willing to let the psykers be regulated he hates what oramar has done and pushes for harsh punishment in that regard

As for the Council of Titans, a question to be posed is if the fists are allowed in. Due to this being post herasy Sinistrum is a brain in a jar now. If this is invite only then either the master of mars (who i really need to get around to turning into his own character) is invited or the council of arch magos could be invited to interpret the will of sinistrum. Or since the leadership of the fists / mechanicus is a bit of a confusing situation maybe i don't get to come.

Here's another point. What is the End TImes scenario of this 'verse? What are the End Times supposed to look like? Because the 13th Crusade is the harbinger of the end times, and the grinding futility should feel like the apocalypse is just around the corner and shit's about to go down hard.

So the Crusader States grinding futility at the moment it seems the the Firewall will fail and the entire host of Hell, countless Daemons and Chaos will simply wash over the Crusader States and end the long war, or that the 13th Crusade is suddenly opposed by such a tide of traitors that the fear is if they fail then the Tempestus Gap will fall and Chaos will simply rush into the Crusader States that way.

Basically it has to feel like 5 minutes to midnight, that the apocalypse is beginning and everything is about to go to absolute shit really fast.

>>Rubinek
>He's the primarch of the Iron Hearts and gets purged because he uses Xenotech to repair his heart after it gets ripped out in battle. There's not much else on him atm, so this is in part an effort to flesh him out.

>>Rubinek
>It's a pity he had to die for it, we could have saved him given the chance, his purging was a great injustice

To clarify further, Rubinek is a nearly aborted freak, as are most of his progeny. He finds an AI in a massive monolith on his homeworld, and uses it to manage and operate an STC factory complex which produces cybernetics. Fuckin with AIs isn't a crime the Emperor forgives easily, and Rubinek was already a stain of dishonor on the genomantic skills of the Emperor.

Thats sounds like a good way for the XX'th legion to go defunct, carelessly throwing themselves at the enemy as they believe the world is coming to an end.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of this setting.

This whole setting is 5minutes past midnight.
The Imperium is fallen.
The Emperor is dead.
The few surviving loyalists fight among themselves more than they fight against the enemy.

The end times have come and gone.

The feel I was going for with my 13th Crusade is that it's all very uncertain and a bit fgsfg. I want to drive home the core of this setting - this being that the true enemy of the Crusader States is their own disunity and mistrust of one another. Individually they all have achieved amazing things, but their inability to work these things around one another is the Warmaster's greatest ally.

In many ways [REDACTED]'s position is not immensely strong, even if he's achieved great things. He has an Imperium that with no loyalty to him, just loyalty to fear. His greatest generals are really more like dubious allies - how many of the Traitor Primarchs would be willing to die for him? How many even like him? A few of them can barely coordinate or interact with anyone else.

So the idea with the 13th Crusade is that it's this muddled, murky affair that drags on due to the fractured nature of the Crusader States. One thing I want to add (I'm not finished) is that as the situation Segmentum Tempestus deteriorates into a space slog with no clear battle lines and utterly incomplete communications, the second Firewall breach in recorded history occurs further up in Segmentum Ultima, placed so that the forces of Chaos can bite a huge chunk out of one of the States that has devoted a lot of resources to the Tempestus situation. Once again, the situation becomes dire because not everyone moves to plug the gap immediately. Many of the Crusader States don't even know what each other are doing for the most part, and are almost in a state of cold war with one another.

Oh also, posting some Realm Guard ideas in Sassy's format to see which ones people want written. I'll be back later.

Milanau Burnouts
>Biker rebels turned supersonic cavalry.

Hygelac Dog-Soldiers
>You wouldn't like them when they're angry.

Chaeronea Aquila Guard
>The best of the best of the best, sir!

Maximilian Correctional Service
>The destination of a thousand thousand spoiled second sons, rakish heirs, and troublesome noble daughters from across the Crusader States. Hopefully some combat will sort them out, or at least let them die with a good name.

Beleth Corpse Corps
>Lifeless soldiers harvested from across the galaxy, shocked into activity by galvitic apparatus and trapped in a neurosimulation of their past battles.

Scorylo Foreign Legionnaires
>Meet interesting people! See alien worlds! Bring liberty and prosperity to the larger galaxy! Sign up now to serve The Warmaster TODAY!

Aleksandros Half-Lifers / Aleksandros Furies
>Short-lived, mutated primitives with any weaponry they can scavenge and lot of enthusiasm.

Rayyib Armoured Interventors
>Why only Space Marines get power armour, cousin Rasheed?

>The best of the best of the best, sir!

WITH HONOURS!

Nice.

That's with honours, sir!

>Chaeronea Aquila Guard
Situated off the rimward shoulder of the Perfidian Gap, the world of Chaeronea is one defined by a tradition of constant martial readiness. The people of Chaeronea pride themselves upon their history, quick to remind others at how readily their world accepted the Imperial Truth - how it took in the first, lost explorators who found it, many centuries before the main body of the Imperial forces would arrive, and protected these heralds of unity, building its strength in preparation for the day when its people would be called upon to serve the Master of Mankind. Devotion, honour, and diligence are the core tenets of Chaeronean life, and they are reflected in the quality of its soldiery, the planet producing some of the finest regiments to serve the Storm Kingdom.

The primary virtues around which the Aquila Guard are composed are a consequence of Chaeronea's ancient caste system - the original Aquila Guard were the elite forces tasked with the preservation of the original explorators to find Chaeronea and their descendants. It is no surprise, then, that the Aquila Guard of today are line-holders and staunch vanguard forces, their renown bestowing them with the heaviest of carapace armour and the finest equipment, their most decorated units making use of integrated servo harnesses in order to handle heavy weaponry suited to close-fire engagement. Unyielding in service and schooled from birth to uphold the values of Chaeronea, the Boys in Blue are often deployed as attendant legions to individuals of extreme importance, ready and willing to lay down their lives in the defense of the Imperial dream.

By the way, I'll be putting together a similar thing for the Ultima Front of the 13th Crusade as well. Belligerents, major engagements, etc. What the 'story so far' for it looks like, in my mind, is:

(Part 1)
>As the Crusade in the upper Tempestus grinds on with no end in sight, the Crusader States watching with apprehension and uncertainty at the true severity of the situation, the ancient bindings that preserve the Firewall's glory begin to flicker and wane, and, for the second time in recorded history, a Great Maw begins to yawn open, this time in the contested zone of the Antonine Gulf, between the Unyielding Vigil and the Jade Empire. With speed that speaks of readiness, forces of the Bloodhounds domain, the Second Sons, and the Fortress Worlds swarm the Gulf, establishing a series of fortified footholds in the mostly unclaimed territories. Forces from both nearby Crusader States are diverted to contain the onrushing threat, but internal difficulties on both sides slow down this process. Much of the Vigil's military arm is tied up on the Tempestus Front, while, in the Jade Empire, there are quarrels regarding the severity of the breach - many shadowy internal projects, considered essential to victory by their political proponents, hoard defensive forces further into the Empire, denying the Front their presence. Reinforcements from the other States are slow to respond, partially due to their own misgivings, but in no small part due to the worries of groups inside the Unyielding Vigil and the Jade Empire. In the Vigil, those engaged in sensitive heretek experimentation have no wish to evade yet more watchful eyes, and in the Empire, esoteric research foundations fear that heavy interference in the Realm could lead to the destruction of their projects.

(Part 2)
>This state of affairs continues for almost a century, the Traitors advancing quickly to take the majority of the Gulf, eventually pushing upon the border worlds of both nearby Crusader States. It is amidst this atmosphere of distrust and chaos that an unexpected rallying cry emerges from the depths of obscurity. Borne back from the Front along with her fallen brethren, Sister Agathys Thera of the Order of the Dolorous Blade rises from the sleep of death, and the procession is diverted towards Amaranth. Bestowed with a gentle strength and authority, she enters the Tomb-Fortress of the Undying Scions, seeking an audience with Sarco Funerus himself. When she returns, she is another creature entirely: in her hands, she bears the flaming sword of the Emperor himself, ferried back to Amaranth along with his corpse. Her eyes blaze with fire and her command is absolute: the Servants of the Emperor will fight, and fight, and fight, until the day the Warmaster stands at the feet of his Maker. Promising not only to oust the Traitors, but to cut like a blade into the depths of the Dark Imperium, she returns to the Front alongside the forces of a galvanized Unyielding Vigil. News of the Agathyian Miracle spreads quickly, and armies from across the Ultima Segmentum converge to fight and die for the dream of an Imperium once again in Loyalist hands. The Traitor forces are deeply entrenched by now, however, given plenty of time to reinforce their positions by the indecision of the Crusader States, and pushing them back from whence they came will require yet another miracle.

How would you stat the Baleful Blade?