Leman Russ Tractor

Have you seen a grox? They're basically herding dragons.

>mfw the fleshbags seriously believe this
>mw years later the prank is still going

Yes, the widespread exploration vehicle from the DAoT.

>The chassis, engine, tracks, those sorts of things were the same or at least similar.

Or so people always claim but nobody has ever provided a single source for Russes having anything to do with tractors.

it's probably just a reference to the fact that T-34's were built in a tractor factory during the Battle of Stalingrad, you know Gee Dubs likes to rip off history instead of being original, plus there is such a thing as an artillery tractor, often a battle tank with the weaponry removed and fitted to tow artillery and other big guns

Nobody can prove a source from anything from the Dark Age of Technology.

It's a dark age

You're thinking of a different 40K tank. The Brunhilde.

Orks do that to themselves already.

Consider, they eat squigs.

>If the Leman russ was used in the Dark Age of Technology as a tractor

Quit spewing headcanon. Nowhere in all the fluff is it said that Leman Russ was a tractor or based on a tractor. In fact, Necrons and Tau praise the design of the Leman Russ ans say that the Admech is holding back its potential with their stupidity.

>Take everything with a grain of salt in 40k, especially shit they talk about in the DAoT.

You mean take what the fans say with an mountain of salt. People like OP are scum who mindlessly repeat what other scum said with no care about if its true or not.

I was making a joke fucktard. Us trying to speculate about what you'd be farming if you needed a tank to do so.

>In fact, Necrons and Tau praise the design of the Leman Russ ans say that the Admech is holding back its potential with their stupidity.

Can you give a source for that? I don't think I've ever read anything about Imperial technology from an alien's point of view. Seems interesting.

I think one of the Crons said the Russ design had so much potential, as they took them over and turned them against the Guard, can't remember where it was though

I remember that too, unfortunately I got the quote some 100 miles from me right now. It was one of the named characters taking over the Russ and noting that it was a fancy little thing, but its potentials were limited. I seem to remember a similar thing from a Tau POV, where they were looking over a Russ and said it had great tech, but underutilized.

End of the day, a multi-fuel engine, various high energy generators, main gun with autoloaders with range-finders, warning systems, etc. are not entirely WW1 in space.

>Not a reference to the first tanks using caterpillar tracks which tractors also used during the period

>Can you give a source for that?
Yep, 5th edition necron codex

Maybe in Rogue Trader, when Russes didn't even exist yet.

Also, Stalingrad wasn't the only time T-34s were made in tractor factories. In the 30's the Russians hired the dude who made the automobile factories in Detroit to come and design factories for them with wartime production specifically in mind.

Predatory catgirls.

IIRC in the Farsight enclaves book some tau says "by the greater good the guela have a lot of tanks" when seeing an Imperial invasion force.

But the design of the Leman Russ is generally horrible.

It's built like one of those crappy interwar tanks.

What if the restrictions placed on the Leman Russ (and, presumably, ever other piece of equipment) are there to prevent it from being Chaos'd?

What would you like, an awesome tank that will last at best a hundred years or a decent tank that will last ten thousand?

If Chaos wants to chaos it, it'll get chaos'd anyway.
The fundamental rule of 40k is, that nothing is beyond Chaos' huge, oozing dick if a Chaosfag is writing the fluff.

That's more the reason some of the flaws in the design haven't been fixed, assuming they've been spotted - no-one wants to risk the fix pissing someone off or making the tank easier to corrupt.

>It's built to look like one of those crappy interwar tanks.

FTFY

It's like that one episode of Dominion Tank Police, where it's illegal to have modern day military tech, so the criminals get fancy tech stuffed into old ass looking tanks as not to rouse suspicion.

It's weird that even during the Great Crusade they couldn't make better Russes, during the time most of Imperial technology was made and none of the Admech insanity existed.

>Nowhere in all the fluff is it said that Leman Russ was a tractor or based on a tractor.
I really don't know where this wrong idea come from. I would have understand if that was about the Rhino, who was at some point of the game described as a multi-purpose chasis adaptable to any role from from tractors to mobile lab with the right fitting. But the Russ?

>and none of the Admech insanity existed.
Mechanicum insanity was just as bad, if not worse (you know, seeing as at least half of them, including the Fabricator-General, turned to chaos) - they still had the machine spirits and didn't share data with each other

They also were far more open to experimentation, innovation and thinking outside the box, which is how they could make 6 power armour variants and at least 5 terminator armour variants, plus the lineage of assault cannons, storm shields, etc. can be traced back to the Crusade and Heresy. Not much since then.

So why didn't anyone take a look at the Russ and go "oh, right, disengage the parking break, of course." It being shit in the 41st millennium is understandable and no one wanting to mess with it, but it's equally shit in 30k as well. Even the Malcador has souped up engines and shield generators.

There's more fun stuff to be doing, I guess

It's not like there's anything wrong with Chaos being a corrupting force.

Wild turnips.

Of course they farmed orcs. That is how they got all the XP and gold for their upgrades.

5th ED Necron Codex, the story after Anrakyr's entry.

The WD that came with the Tau 3th ED release.

>I-I was just pretending to be retarded! You're the real retard!
Discussing 40k lore here is fucking impossible because what people think is canon is often a corruption of a meme that was a knee jerk reaction against another meme that was based on some obscure bit of Oldhammer dross that doesn't make any sense in the context of the current lore

Reading comprehension, learn it.

That isn't really a reaction to the design of the russ, just the quantity of them.

Sorry brah, doesn't work like that. The way your question was phrased strongly implies you think it was used as a tractor. "What the hell were they farming? Orcs?" makes it sound like you believe it was used as such and have trouble understand why you'd use one in that role. If you were asking a hypothetical question, you wouldn't have included it. Either you're not a native English speaker (in which case I'm sorry for giving you shit), or you genuinely believed the tractor thing (probably from taking someone else's joke literally) and are doing this to save face.

do any wonk nerds know what LR's use as fuel??

Everything, literally it's part of their fluff that whatever vaguely fuel like substance you throw in their engines will work.

I'm not a native English Speaker.

very cool. so i m guessing shit like ethanol and promethium

Neat that they'd point that out, because it's pretty true. On top of the exposed tracks and other obvious shit, it's actually less armored than a modern MBT

Liquids, yes. It's a piston driven multi-fuel, like all Imperial tank engines. So if it's liquid and it burns, the Russ and various other tanks can most likely run on it.

Yeah, but literally anything can work - I'm sure there was one example of them using corpses, just burning them

I've always justified it that they might be able to make a better tank , but they don't understand the more autonomous parts of the production enough to change it without risking breaking it and end up with a broken factory making no tanks.

I remember that there was once a bit of fluff that making a Hellhound, a flame throwing Chimera derivative, required taking a fully battle ready Chimera from the end of the assembly line and partially tear it down and retrofit the flamethrowers in because they could't change it any earlier.

next Astra Militarum codex:

A Leman Russ squadron may choose to use Promethium fuel for 40pts, allowing them to move up to cruising speed (12'')

Oh great, some overpriced shit.

its not overpriced... 40 pts to upgrade your heavy tank squad so it can move 12'' and still fire all its shit... its shit like this that AM needs to be competitive.. the problem i have now is i cant score objectives... and iam a player that moves my huge blob squads forward on turn 1

>moving Russes

Just park them where you have a good LOS and blam the enemy. Blam them good.

Source on the Tau and necrons thinking the Russ is awesome? Curious

Sorry, posted before finishing the thread

I'm surprised they didn't use a turbine, then. Not only can it burn almost anything, but it has fewer moving parts.

>wants a whining turbine over a rumbling, smoke spewing diesel engine

It's 40pts to get a long range unit that dies in close combat or even being close to melta guns, closer to the enemy. It might be worth 10pts on a Demolisher or maybne even 20 to get Pask-punisher and friends into range to kill what needs to be dead. What guard needs to be competitive is more multi-shot weapons with high AP rather than large blasts to take care of MC/GCs and a decurion with impressive benefits to actually be highly competative. If you have a problem taking objectives get a taurox for something for 10 more points than you're plan, or go to fw for a centaur or a tauros or throw some storm troopers onto an objective, or throw a special weapon squad out of a vendetta at one, or even get a 5 man squad of >rough riders for 15 more points more, regardless, sacrificing ~190 points worth of tank to get 1 malestrom objective would not be a good idea.

Fuel economy on turbines is shit, from lasguns/pistols/cannons/multilasers to the engines in their vehicles a lot of guard's equipment is defined by how little a logistical footprint they leave.

Makes sense when you're arming bazillions of soldiers over an entire galaxy.

not everyone is a gunline fag
but you see a squad of 3 exterminators (autocannon) Russes w/ multimelta sponsons, and heavy flamers is great close range fire support... 40 pts to upgrade this squad would be worth it m8, so they could reach the center of the table fast and begin to dish it out... much like the eldar. not every parks their shit... nor do we want to rely on models that dont exist (rough riders) and overpriced valkeries,

shit, i'll take it a step furthur.. now this might be the caffeine talking, but check this:

if i was the faggit writing the next codex i would include that a 10 man squad of guardsmen may ride on top of the Leman Russ-- essentially turning it into a transport. Once they are embarked they cound as being in an open topped vehicle. the Russ may not shoot however. combine this with Promethium fuel and you have the Russes ferrying the guardsmen to the center of the board

IG goes from being low tier shit army to #1 bestest in world

inb4 faggot, retard

Don't have it on me but IIRC that might come from a piece at the back of the 3rd ed rulebook.

I'm sure you could do this at one point.... maybe Cities of Death

ahhh, you mean back from when this game was fun??

Nah fuck all that, just give the tank the venerable special rule but every time it rerolls a rider dies.

If Russes could do this, why have Chimeras?

because if you only want to rock fast troops without paying the tax of Leeman Russ + Promethium fuel....

The fuel economy on the Russ seems pretty shit anyway, if pic related is anything to go on.

Because carrying troops on the back of a tank isn't as safe. The tank can't fight while troops are onboard. The troops aren't protected from small arms fire so the tank can't carry them anywhere near combat.

Troops mounting tanks was just an ad-hoc measure to help bring troops to the front lines. Totally different role from an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle.

Realistically, a leman Russ carrying troops on the back wouldn't even happen on the scale of a 40k battlefield. That would just maybe happen on a logistical level, not in combat

It has that kind of aesthetic, but that doesn't mean it functions like them. You also have to take into consideration that the vehicles are sculpted in heroic scale and the sculptors are likely not versed in actual military vehicle design.

The aesthetic serves a few purposes. It conveys the ruggedness that most Imperial vehicles are known for, it contrasts with what the Imperium used to have access to and the higher level of technology that more elite parts of it make use of, and by sticking a vehicle that looks like it came out of WW1/WW2/the modern day so far in the future, it creates something unique. Futuristic tanks nowadays are all rounded, smooth, and possibly hover.

The Imperial Army was basically subordinate to the Legions during the Great Crusade. Doesn't make a lot of sense to focus on improving their stuff when you could be working on pumping out better things for the Legions.

It is said though that on the whole the Imperial Army was better equipped than the current Guard with things considered rare now being more common.

Also I think a lot of what is known about Imperial Army technology comes from the FW HH books and in that regard it was kind of a spontaneous things. Supposedly the Solar Auxilia were originally just someone's pet project that was deemed cool and got turned into a full fledged range that gained a bit more prominence in the lore. The Imperial Militia is basically the equivalent of a PDF.

>tfw everyone ignored this.

The level of salt in this thread is amazing. As is the level of anal retentive autists.

Welcome to Carnac threads.

Where we're going, we don't need intelligence.

>Realistically

thankfully 40k is governed by the rule of cool, bud

>If the KV 1's suspension was copied from American Caterpillar bulldozers in the 20's, what the hell were they bulldozing? Panzers?

Yes, that is a thing that happened.

Yes, it worked. Not great but then again Soviets were never really known for their craftsmanship.

No need to reinvent the wheel if it already works. And can run on almost anything you can burn. And is stupidly easy and cheap to repair or build.

So yeah, having a tank that may have been built on the chassis of a tractor makes perfect sense provided the tractor was heavy enough duty to work. Wouldn't be the first time a civilian concept was adapted to military use.

So in reality, the base vehicle was probably capable of hauling or towing very heavy loads, not to mention functioning as a bulldozer or possibly even as the basis for construction vehicles. If the chassis can already handle a lot of weight, has good towing capacity, and is reliable, that's a great basis for a tank already. You already know it'll handle the load of the armor and gun, already know it can help tow a bogged down or disabled tank, and it can easily be repaired in the field.

Not to mention these "tractors'' were being used on extremely harsh planets with a wide range of gravity, atmospheres, and temperatures. They'd need to be quite a bit tougher than anything we would use in the present day.

>Calling out headcanon is Carnacing

Fuck off.

It's literally Carnac, no one else calls those that get 40k fluff "wrong" liars or holds them with such contempt.

>"wrong"

Are you implying that you agree that the Leman Russ is based on a tractor?

Probably because those limits were placed on it to prevent Chaos from fucking shit up.
>By flipping this switch right next to the engine we can activate the active protection system giving the Leman Russ a 3+ invulnerable save
>Unfortunately it works like an anti-Gellar field
>What the fuck does that mean?
>It summons daemons in front of incoming munitions to take the hit, with bigger daemons for bigger threats
Fire a Volcano Cannon at a Leman Russ and summon Khorne himself to the material realm.

I'm sorry, please tell me that somebody played that army.

>Unstabilized gun
>Demolisher cannon
>1000 meter effective range
Jesus Christ, what would be the effective range of a Vanquisher cannon if it was actually stabilized, 100,000 meters?

Dice+2d6

...

>Tau, Necrons, Dark Eldar, and especially Orks improve the designs of their stuff and seek to expand the potential of their arms and gear
>Nothing happens except the production of powerful and effective weapons and wargear

>Humans shun improving their weapon systems and gear
>the fans : It's not because they are dumbasses. It's because they will explode into DAEMONS

Human apologists please go.

...

Necron tech is effectively magic, they know exactly what they are doing. Most Dark Eldar advances amount to medicine, poisons, or drugs. Orks don't give a shit about daemons, just more stuff to fight, their shit does sometimes explode into daemons and they travel through the warp unprotected. Tau are literally the least advanced faction in the setting, their supposedly highly advanced main battle tank is less armoured and less lethal than a Leman Russ Vanquisher while having nowhere near the variants.

>and yet, somehow with all those xeno improvements, human tech is still even with them

Checkmate xenos

I don't think so.

A single riptide decimated a battalion of Admech Leman Russes and a Baneblade. The Magos in the Baneblade had a nervous breakdown and started pulling on his cybernetics in horror and frustration over the Riptide casually killing his tanks one by one.

The level Imperial tech is not really what matters. It's their near-endless numbers.

The "Leman Russ was a tractor" thing is old, but I've never been able to track it down. It could've come from someone's headcanon that everybody bought into back when there were so few websites that we tended to believe things on the internet.

But I'll defend the Leman Russ anyway.

STC is all about making it easy for backwater colonies to make modern equipment, including for defense. That means ease of construction is a high priority, higher than, say, armor effectiveness - and that's a strong incentive to use the same chassis design for a bunch of things, like mechanized artillery and tractors. Note that tractors aren't just farm equipment. The terms applies to haulers in general, including tank recovery vehicles.

Point is, DAoT core worlds should be building tanks that look more like Eldar Falcons, while "the provinces" make do with simple, blocky things that shoot well, still protect their occupants from infantry and smaller vehicles, and can be maintained by someone who doesn't understand science and engineering. In the age of the Imperium, that's pretty much everyone.

>their supposedly highly advanced main battle tank is less armoured and less lethal than a Leman Russ Vanquisher while having nowhere near the variants.

Seeing that in Mont'ka, that featured one of the largest tank battles ever fought by the Imperium, the Tau tanks were outnumbered many times over but still managed to hold off the Imperial tank formations and score victories until the Tau final victory in the war, I say Hammerhead > Leman Russes.

>Point is, DAoT core worlds should be building tanks that look more like Eldar Falcons, while "the provinces" make do with simple, blocky things that shoot well, still protect their occupants from infantry and smaller vehicles, and can be maintained by someone who doesn't understand science and engineering. In the age of the Imperium, that's pretty much everyone.

FW lore says that the predator might have been the main tank of the DAoT.

>tfw everyone STILL ignored this.

They use de-weaponised tanks as tractors in The Ukraine and a few other former Soviet Union nations.

Dude, that fuel consumption is amazingly good for a tank. A litre per kilometer? Modern tanks get gallons to the mile.