Dawnborn General /dbg/

huh, isn't this just 4e?

Hey there, marketing person. Do you have time to answer a few short (if somewhat rhetorical) questions while you're in this thread?
Have you played any of the games you've named in your post?
Which ones, and how much time did you devote to them?
What are, in your opinion, some of the most enjoyable experiences you've had playing those games?
Have you ever GMd a game? If yes, which of those games was most enjoable to GM?
On average, how much time per week do you devote to playing or GMing pen and paper RPGs?
Do you consider yourself a gamer? Why or why not?
Did you ever take part in a long term campaign or a living world? How did it turn out?
Which parts or roleplaying games, in general, do you find enjoyable?
What was your motivation for using "wishy-washy rules-litey"?

Strike seems like 4e but stripped down and streamlined, which appeals to some people but personally just removes a lot of what I like about 4e.

Strike! does things with its powers that 4e never even came close to.

why no earth/lightning? I like zapping things I've grounded myself

Earth/Lightning is legal.

The damage seems... beyond low.

Stop shilling Strike!

Why does Veeky Forums keep shilling Strike!?

Not according to that image. You choose one pair of opposing elements.

Also cold can ONLY do 1 damage and only if something's already immobilized or slowed?

So two turns to do 1 damage?

This is because you're missing the evocations which contain the base damage.

docs.google.com/document/d/1JC3ZZCfSfIfiYVqA50saZ5YnNDWXwc-JJREHIbWE36g/pub

Uh, I'm complaining to the other guy.
And I have no idea, this morning is the first I've ever heard of strike.

Doesn't seem very impressive so far.

This... feels clunky as fuck.
The damage is incredibly low, I don't know if that's standard for the system but it certainly has a pathetic feel either way.

The ranges are low, so it's a near-melee class, and some of the abilities are clunky as all fuck.
"when you roll a 3, 5 or 6"? really?

It's a meme, don't engage.

A level 1 evoker has access to six basic elements, two encounter elements, and one primal evocation.

Basic elements insert effects. A level 1 evoker includes two at a time and can double up on one.
Evocations determine base damage and AoE shape.

Currently, the evoker is deeply unpolished and badly in need of revision. Doubling up is too strong in some cases (especially Fire + Fire), and having only one primal evocation at level 1 lends very little playstyle variety. Ray Evocation's extra damage triggering on a 3, 5, or 6 is also very clunky.

The evoker is not in good shape at all at the moment, and I would not recommend it to anyone. It is in an alpha draft.

A better representation of a proper Strike! character would be... well, anything from the core rulebook or the published supplements. I can draft up what a "fungal manipulator and earth manipulator" would look like as a level 1 duelist/defender.

I was not impressed looking at that evoker. A cheap chinese knockoff of 4e is just as bad a place to start as Exalted 2e or d20 mecha (which to this day I consider the worst waste of 20$ I've ever made in gaming.)

The evoker is an alpha playtest draft, and I do not know why it would have been a good idea for to show it off.

You are correct in that Strike!'s damage is on the lower side. A typical PC will be dealing 2-3 damage each turn, and level 1 monsters have 8 HP. Damage numbers are kept low, because why bother with high and bloated values?

Everything I've seen of strike just seems excessively dull and mediocre. 4e with less depth or personality.

Here is a quick draft of a level 1 character's combat side in Strike! I think you will find that such a character has as interesting a playstyle as any other 4e level 1 character, if not more interesting.

Emeli, Dawnborn of Earth and Fungus

Level: 1
Class: Duelist
Role: Defender

Feat: Superhuman. Emeli has Tremorsense and can thus ignore the Blinded Status, Concealment, Cannot be Seen, and Hidden against creatures touching the ground.
Emeli can also move through solid objects, walls, and creatures, but she must end her movement in an open square. When she enters or leaves an enemy's square, she does not grant that enemy an Opportunity.

Passive: Earthen Resilience: When Emeli takes 3 or more damage, she Resists 1. When Emeli rolls a 3 to 6 on an attack, she regains 1 Hit Point.

Universal Powers: Melee Basic Attack, Ranged Basic Attack, Charge, Rally, Assess

Free Action: Fungal Growth, Encounter, Free Action
Emeli targets one creature within 10 squares. Until the end of the encounter, when Emeli attacks the target, any 2s on her dice are treated as though they were 4s.
Special: This power recharges when its target is Taken Out.

Whenever Emeli starts her turn, the target of her Fungal Growth takes one Infection. When Emeli starts her turn, for each point of Infection the enemy has, she picks one effect from the list below. It has all the Statuses Emeli chose until the end of its next turn.
• Harried.
• Cannot benefit from positive effects from its allies' powers.
• Cannot take advantage of Opportunities.
• Cannot benefit from positive effects from its own powers.
• Cannot use Interrupts or Reactions.
The target may ignore Emeli's "Cannots," but it grants her an Opportunity if it does.
Explosive Spores: When Emeli attacks the target of her Duel, she may spend any number of points of its Infection, removing an amount of accumulated Statuses equal to the points spent. If Emeli hits, she increases her damage by one per point spent.

If Emeli is Incapacitated (for instance, when she drops to 0 HP or below), all Infection she has generated is lost.

Attack Action: Fungal Transplant, At-Will
Emeli makes a Basic Attack against a creature, then changes the target of Fungal Growth to that creature. The original target loses all points of Infection and associated Statuses. They do not transfer to the new target.

Attack Action: Earthen Personal Gravity, At-Will, Ranged 5, Damage 2
Effect: The target is pulled to a square adjacent to Emeli.

Attack Action: Enigmatic Defenses, At-Will, Melee 1, Damage 2
Effect: Emeli chooses Marked or Guarded and secretly tells two other players. If she chooses Marked, then until the end of the target's next turn, it is Marked. If she chooses Guarded, then until the end of the target's next turn, she is Guarded against its attacks, and if it attacks Emeli, it grants her an Opportunity. Either way, the target is aware that this effect has been placed on it, but not which option of the effect. Emeli's player reveals her original choice when she needs to prove what it was.

Attack Action: Great Boulder Bludgeon, Encounter, Melee 1, Damage 3
Effect: 3 damage if neither Emeli nor the target have any other creatures adjacent to either of them.

Role Action: Pheromone, Ranged 5
The target is Marked by Emeli until the end of its next turn.

Reaction: Chthonic Armor, Encounter
Trigger: An enemy hits Emeli with an Attack.
Emeli spends an Action Point. The attack misses instead.

While I'll admit that looks a bit more fun than 4e characters, that's kind of a low bar, and even in this one I'm seeing evidence of severe clunk.

"2s count as 4s", and at least tell me it's d6s or holy fucking shit stuff like "a 3-6" takes on a whole new level of what the fuck.

As base mechanics... no. We cannot recommend this.

However, I can say that if abilities can have that kind of extremely different playstyle to them from oneanother as you show, that would not be bad so long as it all works.

I had forgotten an important passive:

Punishing Stone: When an enemy grants Emeli an Opportunity, it takes 1 additional damage.

~

By default, Strike! characters have 10 HP. They can spend an Action Point to Rally to regain 4 HP and an expended encounter power.

Most monsters appropriate against a level 1 party deal 2 damage on a hit, or 4 damage on a natural 6; their encounter powers deal 3 damage on a hit, or 6 on a natural 6.
Elites and champions, who have multiple turns, deal 3 damage on a hit, or 6 damage on a natural 6; their encounter powers deal 4 damage on a hit, or 8 on a natural 6.
Dedicated high-damage striker monsters will deal even more.

Thus, Emeli, who has this:
>Passive: Earthen Resilience: When Emeli takes 3 or more damage, she Resists 1. When Emeli rolls a 3 to 6 on an attack, she regains 1 Hit Point.
Is very well-equipped to endure the worst of what enemies can possibly throw at her. She is no better off against weaker attacks, but even against those, she steadily regains HP.

Once per encounter, she can spend an Action Point to negate an attack against her, no questions asked, even if it was a natural 6 on a champion's encounter power.

Now, what can Emeli do with this durability?

Strike! characters have three actions each turn: Attack Action, Move Action, and Role Action. With her Role Action, she can use this:

>Role Action: Pheromone, Ranged 5
>The target is Marked by Emeli until the end of its next turn.
Bear in mind that this does not provoke Opportunities. If she is engaging enemy A in melee, she can mark enemy B.

What "Marked" means is that if an enemy is adjacent to Emeli and tries to shift (move safely away), Emeli deals an Opportunity to it. The enemy takes 3 automatic damage.

If a Marked enemy is within 5 squares of Emeli and it makes an attack that does not include Emeli as a target, the enemy provokes an Opportunity, suffering 3 automatic damage.

Thus, Emeli is a fairly decent 4e-style defender so far.

Emeli also has her Fungal Infection. It slowly degrades an enemy's ability to fight over time. When Emeli thinks it is time for the enemy to go down, she can use this:
>Explosive Spores: When Emeli attacks the target of her Duel, she may spend any number of points of its Infection, removing an amount of accumulated Statuses equal to the points spent. If Emeli hits, she increases her damage by one per point spent.
(You will note that I had erroneously typed "Duel," the original name of this power.)

Thus, Emeli has a playstyle of "keep on pressuring a slowly-degrading enemy, and then unleash a coup de grace when the time is right." Since elite and champion enemies have much higher HP values, Emeli specializes in dueling them over weaker foes.

Enigmatic Defenses is Emeli's best trick. She can use it in two main ways:
A: Emeli can target an enemy she has already Marked, and choose "Guarded." This way, she takes even less damage from that enemy's attacks, and she automatically inflicts an Opportunity against the enemy for a nasty 3 damage.
B: Emeli can choose "Marked"... and use her Pheromone power to Mark someone *other* than the enemy she is attacking. Thus, she gets to tank against two enemies at a time.

Alternatively, if she would like to bring a distant enemy closer, she can use her Earthen Personal Gravity.

Emeli needs some room to swing a boulder around, but when she does, she can devastate an enemy with a potential 6 damage.

Emeli, by the way, has Tremorsense and can walk through walls and enemies, so she is quite equipped to deal with sneaky enemies while having tricksy herself.

What do you think of this character's playstyle? Bear in mind that this is just a level 1 character.

Strike! uses a straight 1d6. With "Advantage," you roll twice and take the higher result, and with "Disadvantage," you roll twice and take the lower result.

This works well for combat... but it does not work out of combat. That is Strike!'s main downfall.

And now for a completely different take on Emeli. This time, she is merely the Dawnborn of Fungus. She focuses on planting deadly spores in the ground and yelling at her allies to keep their spirits up.

Level: 1
Class: Bombardier (Bomberman)
Role: Leader

Feat: Superhuman. Emeli has Tremorsense and can thus ignore the Blinded Status, Concealment, Cannot be Seen, and Hidden against creatures touching the ground.
Emeli can also move through solid objects, walls, and creatures, but she must end her movement in an open square. When she enters or leaves an enemy's square, she does not grant that enemy an Opportunity.

Passive: Get A Move On!: When Emeli rolls a 5 or 6 on an attack, she gains an additional use of Move It!

Passive: Shaped Spores: When Emeli creates a zone with her class powers, she can choose for it to be shaped as a 3x3 square, or as a + or X shape extending 2 squares in four directions from the central square.
Passive: Spore Backfire: When Emeli rolls a 1 on any attack, she does not take a Strike. Instead, she takes 2 damage, and the zone her spore creates is centered on her in a 3x3 square.

Universal Powers: Melee Basic Attack, Ranged Basic Attack, Charge, Rally, Assess

Attack Action: Launch Spore, At-Will, Ranged 10, Damage 2
Special: Emeli chooses a type of Spore before she rolls this attack. If she chooses an encounter Spore, she increases the damage line to 3.
Effect: Emeli creates a zone including (but not necessarily centered on) her target. The zone lasts until the start of her next turn and has effects based on the selected Spore.

Attack Action: Spore Run, At-Will, Ranged 10, Damage 2
Special: Emeli chooses a type of Spore before she rolls this attack. If she chooses an encounter Spore, she increases the damage line to 3.
Effect: Emeli moves her speed and drops a Spore within her reach at any two points along her movement. At the end of her turn, she creates two zones, each including (but not necessarily centered on) one of those squares. The zones last until the start of her next turn and have effects based on the selected Spore.

Flesh-Eating Spore, At-Will, Spore
Creatures starting their turn in the zone or entering it take 1 damage.

Mounting Poison Spore, At-Will, Spore
If a creature in a zone takes any action that does not result in them leaving it, or if they end their turn in the zone, they take 3 damage.

Grasping Spore, Encounter, Spore
Creatures starting their turn in the zone or entering it are Slowed (save ends).

Role Action: Move It!, Encounter
One of Emeli's allies takes a Move Action immediately.

Role Action: Rub Some Dirt on It!, Encounter, Ranged 5
The target regains Hit Points up to half their maximum, rounded down. The target may pick one of the following options:
If the target is Prone, they stand up.
If this brings the target to full Hit Points, they have Advantage on their next attack.
Enemies have Disadvantage to attack the target until the end of the target's next turn.
The target makes a Saving Throw against one Status that allows one or to escape a Grab.

Reaction: Try Again!, Encounter
Trigger: An ally makes an attack and dislikes the result.
Emeli spends an Action Point. The ally may reroll the attack. [Note: This was inadvertently nerfed by a last-minute rules change elsewhere. To preserve this power's original usefulness, it is recommended that if the ally generated a Miss Token as part of the attack, the ally gets to keep that Miss Token even if they reroll the attack.]

Emeli here has a rather idiosyncratic playstyle. Spore Run lets her ping an enemy with a ranged attack, and then dash around (through walls, obstacles, and creatures given her Superhuman feat) and plant spores everywhere. The spores erupt into deadly zones which can either deal automatic damage to enemies, force enemies to leave the area lest they take great damage, or slow down enemies. Bear in mind that slowing is stronger in Strike! than in 4e, because it denies shifting.

Emeli does not have to center the spores on the target or a planted spore. Between this and her spore shapes, Emeli has great versatility in creating zones.

With her Role Actions, Emeli can yell at her allies and grant them Move Actions. This can be used to get an ally to move alongside her as she makes a Spore Run, or Emeli can use it to get an ally to move out of the way of her zones. Emeli can also use a Role Action to heal a friend by yelling at them, or an Action Point to allow an attack reroll (probably on an important encounter power that they would not like to miss).

This is quite a bizarre, unique, and effective playstyle, and Emeli is using it right from level 1.

>shilling your shitty system in the thread for shilling DSP's shitty system

I would not have done this at all if someone else had not attempted to make a "good impression" for Strike! by showcasing alpha playtest material which is currently being retyped and rewritten at this very moment, as we speak.

You could just make a strike general and directed people there.

But you at least bumped the thread so I guess that's something.

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be irritated that someone made a new thread when I said we'd be back when we have updates to show, or pleased that there's enough interest that this new thread's lasted all this time while I've been gone.

Somehow I feel like I can be both.

Mmmmaaaaaaaybe. We'd have to see how you get on with the team and you'd need to negotiate with the bosses re: payment. Ping [email protected] and let him know that you caught an interest in Dawnborn and what you'd like to do to help out. If you've got a portfolio, that's a good time to include it. Just keep in mind that this is not a paid-by-the-hour sorta job, and until we get closer to actually launching it may not be a job where payment manifests for a good long while.

Stick around. Getting the mechanics updated is the top priority at the moment.

I appreciate the feedback. I've got hopes to be able to flesh out the setting into something distinct in itself; keep an eye on it as we move forward, lemme know if I fucked it up, aye?

That's user, my friend. I didn't ask for this thread, it just sorta happened while I wasn't looking.

It's still fairly off-topic, 2hu.

>pleased that there's enough interest
This is definitely what you should be feeling right now mate.

Between allowing misinformation based on alpha playtest material to stand, creating a new thread to direct others to, and directly addressing concerns here, I had chosen the third as the least of these three evils.

Creating a new thread specifically for discussing strike would have been more convenient for those who are interested in the game, less invasive, and more respectful for the people in this thread.

Shut up. Quit whining. No one here is talking about this derivative M&M/Exalted rip-off anyways.

Then let's get back to the topic, hm?

You've got a fair point.

I'll be on deck for the next six hours or so; Mechanics is busily typing away, plus or minus things like day jobs.

>I'm an asshole because I can and I want to be.

I can't say I'm surprised that this is your defining trait.

I want to make an important point.

The first show was incredibly weak: the mechanics are a straight M&M ripoff without any new ideas.

While I understand that you want to improve on them and potentially change a lot with them, there's a large problem for you in this approach: you're scaring off your potential hardcore fanbase. They are the people who first see it and what you showed them first isn't even remotely eye-catching. By the time the system is finished, they'll be tired of it and noone will buy it. In other words, you showed the system prototype far too early for your own good.

Or I call it what it is?

I get that DSP wants to write their own system, but to do that they need to make a system that has a reason to exist at all. This current thing they have doesn't offer anything new or worth caring about.

This video will explain my point better than I could ever do it:
youtube.com/watch?v=CmLz00L6CmY

I do appreciate it. Fact of the matter is, though, that we already tipped our hand. Now all we can really do is make the most of the next update cycle and stay responsive and attentive to feedback.

The issue is you're racing against time now. As people are looking at what is basically a M&M document, they're losing interest, while you, on the other hand, are quite interested in them not losing that interest before you introduce anything that could catch their eye and thus have to publish updates as soon as possible. Hence why I consider it a big mistake to show something this early into the production cycle.

I'm thinking even Strike would be a better early base than M&M. It looks like it can make interesting characters at least.

Or they could just say "fuck it" and start over with something new. I think it would be the best option.

So you guys are considering a rolling system of your own in the meantime?

Just take your time, update monthly, and send out some e-mails asking GMs you know if they're interested in running some closed tests for you.

I and my players would much rather have a quality product even if we have to wait for it.

We're working on the 3d6 idea, aye. It's got a lot of appeal, with accessibility being a nice feature of it too. After all, even if you don't have an FLGS nearby you can snag packs of d6 from retailers.

Go for 2d6, like the superior system known as Dungeon World.

Or 1d6 like Strike.

The memes are strong in this thread.

single die gets too swingy again, and doesn't offer nearly as much range as 2 or 3. GURPS has 3, silhouette has anywhere from 1-5 (but for most characters 2-3, 4 if they're insanely good at something), shadowrun has glass-fulls, exalted has buckets...

Summer's almost over.

Just kidding. Summer never ends. Welcome to the Dark Age of Tec... I mean Shitposting.

fucking climate change

>single die gets too swingy again
Is it so bad in combat?

It can get pretty retarded.

Think of it this way.
You're a pathfinder character. a full 5% of your attacks, even against a stationary target, suffer a significant failure of some kind.

And in the case of firearms? without major, powerful magic (and only magic) one can easily have a 15% chance PER SHOT of the weapon not only missing but actually suffering a significant breakdown (and a second one, like if you had a full-attack action, exploding it outright): to the point where there are class abilities to quick-clear it. Any weapon *THAT* unreliable would normally have the apprentice that tried to pass it off as his master's work forced to use his weapon ten times alone behind the shed.

Now. This a d20.

Imagine reducing your odds to a single d6, and a 1 still indicating failure.

Have you considered looking at something like LOTW with a damage system?

LOTW's damage system is: If you get hit, you take a 'Ripple', which is a generic value of the battle going against you. Worse hits (Or some special abilities) can increase the number of ripples per-hit. If the hit is bad enough you then go to a Damage Roll where you actually see if it hurt you.

It's a bit of a middle ground between D&D's 'You can take exactly this much damage' and M&M's 'One bad roll and you are out like a light'

How does Mechanics feel about Target Numbers? Either of the
>Each die must roll at or above a number to generate a hit
or
>Basically a rename of DC but also can gain raises based on every X above said DC
variety?

My experience with 3d6 is that it sounds better than it really is, but that may in part be due to limited experience. That said, my limited experience has partly been with it being implemented as a variant in normally d20 systems. As it currently stands, that's your situation, and so you should be wary.

The issue with implementing 3d6 in a normally d20 environment, or at least an environment like pathfinder/M&M, is that the bell curve of probability it offers completely skews what is an acceptable range of results. Interparty balance is harder to maintain, because a minimal numeric difference in defenses can mean life for one person or death for another against the same threat, for example. A slight difference in defenses can mean one character will nearly ignore everything thrown at them, while another character will get hit by everything. Bonuses have to be controlled much more tightly and kept more in line than normal for the system to work.

My best experience with bell curve probability has been in the Fate systems, and bonuses in those do tend to be much smaller and more uniform between characters. What's more, people have a bit of an opportunity to catch up due to how fate points work.

In the 3d6 system, re-rolls and +1s are very powerful.

Be careful.

I think it's a good choice.

But if you're facing a level-appropriate enemy, aren't you going to miss like 15-30% of the time ANYWAY?

What if the system doesn't even have retarded mega crit fails?

You're making a lot of assumptions.

>M&M's 'One bad roll and you are out like a light'
Yeah, the Toughness system in M&M is godawful. I've experimented with it quite a bit, changing its exact ranges and what it takes to be put down, and the conclusion I've come to is that its really not salvageable.

The worst part is that it simultaneously makes it harder to feel like you're making progress (as the chance of you not having any effect is way higher), while also making it much more likely that you or an enemy can be taken out in an instant, regardless of how powerful you are or how well you've been doing in the fight.

3d6 also lets you pay with things like rolling 4d6 take best 3, and the like, which modify your odds less than advantage /disadvantage.

Yeah, which is why I rather like the Ripple system.

It doesn't make thinks completely predictable (though A tough guy can endure a LOT more ripples than a fragile guy) but it also keeps an element of chance.

Er what.
0.06? How? The odds should be 16/216, which is around 7.4%. You apparently have no idea how to math.

Yep. Here is some more.

4d6b3 looks roughly like 3d6+2.

What about 2d8, for a range of 2-16?

if you're facing a level-appropriate enemy in the d20 system, past levels 1-3, you should be hitting 90% of the time or better.

At highest levels it's more like 95% / 95% / 95% / 85% / 60% / 35% though.

4d6-4
0-20, average of 10

It doesn't HAVE to be a range to 20 though.

It's still pretty tho.

Subtract another 4 and suddenly you're using fudge dice.

>if you're facing a level-appropriate enemy in the d20 system, past levels 1-3, you should be hitting 90% of the time or better.

Not in 4e.
Not in 5e.
Not in 13th Age.

Shit, not even in 3.X/Pathfinder.

ew
ew ew ew

4e and 5e are not "d20 system" user. they just happen to USE d20s
That's 3.X, Pathfinder, d20 modern, Fantasycraft, spycraft and the like.

And at the very least in 3.5 and pathfinder, your accuracy SHOULD be that high or you're really not doing your job right.

Don't let this thread die.

Seems interesting

Where can one get strike?

Piracy.

When can we see more of this genius?
I for one would pay for it.

Anything more concrete than that?

strikerpg.com/

That costs money, friend. If you expect me to pay to see if your system is shitty or not, kindly choke on a dick

Then maybe you should learn how to use google, faggot.

Now with more math.

Long story short, rolls will be within two points of "average" most of the time

This is bad shilling on your part

Alright, I will send an e-mail expressing my interest and desire to get involved. I'll be honest, I'm not an experienced producer of RPG content but I have worked with DSP (in very minor ways) in the past and I think I have some ideas and content that would greatly help with the development of Dawnborn.

Except your position is not even close to universal.

I don't care about the M&M3e. I'm interested in what the system is actually offering - a theme of proactive, world-shaping heroes with *mechanics to match*. Neither Exalted or Godbound has actually offered rules for *how* you shape the world - they just give you a ton of power and a sandbox. Dawnborn appears to actually care about how Dominions are shaped and developed, even if those rules are in the most bare-bones state imaginable right now.

I understand how games get made, and that right now, M&M3e is a placeholder being used because the dev team is familiar with that set of math. I'm willing to let it slide, because I'm more interested in exploring the setting, adventure, and concepts than the mechanics right now.

So where can I get the strike playtest stuff? Also are you sure bombadier is Core? I have the core book and it doesn't have it.

>Neither[...]Godbound has actually offered rules for *how* you shape the world
Are you secretly illiterate, and if so, how are you posting on Veeky Forums?