If you had to, how would you do Lovecraft in the Tolkienverse? Consider that the Tolkien lore can be expanded but its canon should not be largely modified.
Failing that, what system/book would you recommend for a Fantasy Dark Ages lovecraftian horror?
Lovecraftian material falls flat on its ass in Middle Earth because Middle Earth has a clearly-established Catholic cosmology.
Who was that one guy who wrote Lovecraft novels and everyone hates? Who turned it into an actual Good vs Evil struggle with the Evil old gods always getting BTFO'd? Best case scenario it'd be kinda like that.
At the smaller scale, there's nothing Lovecraft influences can add which isn't already covered in what Tolkien wrote.
>system/book would you recommend for a Fantasy Dark Ages lovecraftian horror?
Call of Cthulhu Dark Ages. It's geared toward the actual Dark Ages rather than fantasy but it is a rulebook for running CoC games set during sword swinging times.
As for your first question, Ungoliant is as close as you are gonna get to an actual "Lovecraftian" entity in Middle Earth but I remember seeing some fan theory about how Tom Bombadil is actually some sort of ancient evil. It's a fun take on the character, even if it really doesn't work without fucking around with Tolkien's original intentions.
What about the nameless things Gandalf was meant to have seen when he was having his punch up with the Balrog beneath Moria?
most likely way is an ancient horror from the depths of Morgoth's vaults, that crawled away in the ruin of Thangorodrim and has lurked for an aeon. Maybe a group of heroes who end up investigating why an area is blighted. Alternately, maybe people who have been corrupted by a Dark Numenorean survivor cult.
Actively introducing something that is in the Great Old Ones style, would just be completely out of place.
>If you had to, how would you do Lovecraft in the Tolkienverse?
"The dwarves dug too deep, releasing (...)". That's basically it on a first thought.
>We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel.
It's always easy to do away with those; the gods/cults lied and there's a bigger story here.
The Outer Gods were conquered by the Airnur, who the claimed to have built a new universe, when in reality they merely masked the old evil.
First post best post
Ungoliant and the unspeakable things below the depths of Moria that spooked the Balrog are the two big ones.
More generally, though, is right. Also, it's hard to get proper Lovecraft going on when the canon (that should not be largely modified) has humanity actually matter. Can't have cosmic horror without the crushing nihilism, y'know.
That's hardly following OP's
>Consider that the Tolkien lore can be expanded but its canon should not be largely modified.
, is it? I mean, saying that the whole of the Ainulindalë was just a front just seems kind of... I dunno, lazy? It's reaching for the age-old cliche of "no, you see, here are the REAL bad guys who were orchestrating everything all along!"
But Tolkien already wrote that in.
>"no, you see, here are the REAL bad guys who were orchestrating everything all along!"
>FF final boss music.mp3
>I mean, saying that the whole of the Ainulindalë was just a front just seems kind of... I dunno, lazy?
I really don't see any other way of writing it in. Maybe some adventurers open a portal to Lovecraft's universe?
Fuck that shit, the Airnur are simply but another fragment born from the Demon Sultans fevered dreams meant to amuse him before they are inevitable washed away when the dream turns anew.
okay, that would be incredibly badass
>I really don't see any other way of writing it in. Maybe some adventurers open a portal to Lovecraft's universe?
If you're gonna do that then you might as well just leave Tolkien out of it all together. Which is honestly what you should've done from the very beginning.
I'm just trying to answer OP's question. You can write them in, and Tolkein's lore can be left intact, you just need to make the universe a bit bigger.
>But Tolkien already wrote that in.
Sure. Point being I would have "modified" how particular beings in middle earth were interacted with. A balrog, Gandalf for instance, would not have been able to look at (nor fight) without going "mentally unstable/insane". And that would be the Lovecraft influence.
It is a minor modification of Tolkienverse, but I can not really see how one would otherwise be able to combine the two without making it into a "stupid comic". One could for instance introduce a great old one sleeping in the ocean (hating everything), which Morgoth did not even know, called Cthustupid which Sauron plowed into with his ship. It just becomes stupid though, doesn't it?
To add to that, because I am not really giving Lovecraft enough credit with that post, one could add a "color out of space" (my favorite of his) for instance and try to imagine how people in the Tolkienverse would deal with such a being.
>A balrog, Gandalf for instance, would not have been able to look at (nor fight) without going "mentally unstable/insane"
Gandalf is a literal angel. Having him go insane just from looking at a monster isn't a "minor modificaction" It contradicts his nature and again points out Tolkien and Lovecraft's cosmologies are functionally incompatible.
Yeah, that's why you gotta innovate though. If you use the same old pastiches and play them straight or just up and copy thing without adjusting it for the setting then no shit it's going to be stupid. As for possible ideas look at Bloodborne though more at the beasts and beastly scourge than the Great Ones.
Alright, here's how you actually do it all proper-like.
Eru Illuvatar is Azathoth, and he is currently sleeping (as he is wont to do). In his dream, he had his fragmented soul-pieces sing up a greater dream - or, perhaps, the song was just the subconscious echo of the flutists keeping him asleep.
All of Arda is but a fever-dream.
The Lovecraft bit, the cosmic horror, comes when a character within the dream realizes this, realizes that they ARE NOT REAL, are but figments of imagination that will disappear without a trace when the Daemon Sultan awakes - and finds themselves powerless in the face of this realization.
This isn't some Elder Scrolls CHIM shit where you either vanish in a pop of logic or become a god of lucid dreaming - it's the realization that you are in the Matrix, except there's no real you out there and there's an unknown expiration date for the server.
Play up the existentialism and nihilism of the entire situation and you're pretty much there, I think? Maybe end the story with the narrator trying to preach their mad truth, and getting locked up in an asylum for their trouble.
That's not epic, though. You gotta have a way for your players to manifest as real beings and do epic shit.
Nah, epic, for PC's, at least is not going mad and surviving in most Lovecraft games. What you want sounds a lot more high fantasy with a bit of Lovecraft flavor. In that case just add cults, squamous monsters, and profane arcane rituals and you should be good.
Just go with the established setting, but with the following.
>when the One Ring was destroyed, all of the other rings ceased to function.
>the elven rings were being used to preserve the waning magic of middle earth.
>whether Sauron meant it, or not they also acted as a bulwark against the void.
>with the rings inactive Morgoth returns.
> he has been changed by the centuries trapped in the void.
>he is even less a creature of this world now.
>how would you do Lovecraft in the Tolkienverse?
Kinda like lovecraft-type spookies in the Conan-verse. Like tower of the elephant, the red priest, that sort of thing.
>Epic
>Lovecraft
Hell,
>Epic
>Tolkien
You'd be pretty much limited to certain bits of the Silmarillion for the real "epic shit" that isn't just fairly low-fantasy horrific wars.
Although if you really want to have them manifest as real beings in that scenario, well. It's not like there's not an argument for Azathoth dreaming our world as well, y'know?
That's also a good answer.
Or, hell, just go full Ungoliant on that shit. There's some scary shit hidden in the dark corners of the world.