Jumpchain CYOA Thread #1008: So Much Mage Edition

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Am I the only one that prefers to always just ignore game mechanics completely in jumps based off games? Or at least, not consider them in the same vain as game mechanics for the sake of the jump?

Jumpers!
How do you deal with unwanted collateral damage? Specially if said collateral was accidental and hard to fix.

I just want spell lists.

I have a perk from... GMG I think, creates a sorta reality protection field around the battle arena, so no extra collateral.

Of course not, but often they're the best guidelines we have for how things work.

I discard it at the earliest opportunity.
But seriously, mending spells or resurrection, depending on what got damaged, and everyone blames whoever I'm fighting anyway.

Cardcaptor Sakura has a perk that explicitly fixes collateral damage caused hy a fight, theres also a Worm perk that keeps collateral to a minimum. This assures that the Cardcaptor perk always applies.

Teleport to another country for a week and get a plane ticket back. They can't prove you did it.

I generally assume that game mechanics are to a rough abstraction of the setting, the same way a game's locations are a rough abstraction of the actual universe. So you won't see any outright contradictions, like Pallet Town being in Kalos, but things will definitely be a lot more complex than the game mechanics would allow for.

wodcodex.com/wiki/Spells,_All_(1st_Edition)
Here's an index, I don't know if it helps but it is a list of all canon rotes from first ed.

You mean I can't rob the merchants of Skyrim blind without getting caught just by putting cauldrons on their heads?

For all the problems Bethesda games have, sometimes the bugs are just lovely.

Yes, but this also means that if you go visit High Rock you won't suddenly fall through a dungeon floor and be lost forever in the void.

>I will never lose, ever
>hundreds of dead Konatanons

And then Konatanon was her own Benefactor

It depends on a case by case basis, really. Sometimes they help benchmark what things actually can do, sometimes they don't make sense.

I like to spread rumors that Iron Heart Surge does all the silly things certain folks would assert it does just to spread rumors of it through the land and make people jump in their skin whenever someone shouts IRON HEART SURGE near them. And because I have Rumormonger, once in a while there's a grain of truth in the tall tales

Oof. "Hard to fix" by my standards is quite a high benchmark! Between the Aspect of Stasis, that one perk from Worm, my angelic guardianship powers, my achronal existence and so on I'm good at both avoiding and repairing most damage.

But when things are truly broken, that's what my gestalt femtometamachines come in handy for.

Eh. The issue for me is when a jump sticks to them too rigidly. Like Mage.

How'd you become achronal? I'd both love to be, and be weary of becoming, achronal, and didn't think any jump really offered a way to become so.

>Mage
Oh get over it you spoiled babby. Try going back to the first version of the World of Warcraft jump. Even now it's still filled with dumb bullshit.

Well first off, Mage is a TTRPG, though. All media has some kind of abstractions compared to a real world, but they're a lot less limited than video games, and so a lot less abstract. Second, I think you're conflating game mechanics with in-universe mechanics. A Jump should absolutely stick to in-universe mechanics - if a setting says "you cannot create matter, only transform it," then you should never get a matter creation spell from that setting. It's been a while since I looked at the Mage Jump, but the restrictions it has seem more like in-universe ones (Paradox, Spheres) rather than game abstractions (roll dice to determine successes).

Rolled 5 (1d8)

12. Elfen Lied
Age 18
Drop In
Clear Mind
Thin Ice (900)
Hollow Heart (700)
Because It's You (400)
MOVE! (0)
Cash

Maybe not taking Dark Binding when the thread is telling me where to go was a mistake. Uh, good news is I probably won't need to worry about the Diclonius between what I've got from this Jump and my previous adventures. I just need to worry about the Research Institute and related organizations. I'll need to do something about them, and any rogue Dioclonius, not to mention the Unknown Man. At the very least, my time here won't be boring...

1. Symbiote
2. King Arthur
3. Lovecraft
4. Generation Kill
5. Rome
6. Young Justice
7. Xiaolin Showdown
8. Fairy Tale

It's never a good thing for a manyfist jump to be grounds for comparison with another. I think the fact that you did as much is proof that there's something terribly wrong here.

>what are gnosis and arcana
It is an actual thing, but it's really gamey. Like, 'you just suddenly are gnosis/arcanum rank 5', leveling up like an RPG with the sudden jumps, and the way the caps on arcana are set up is similar with 'you can't learn this arcana better because it was your fourth arcana learned' when that really doesn't make sense outside the realm of game mechanics.

WH40k.

Quick, your hair is on fire! How do you solve this?

...or that you're making such a big deal out of something that's not really that bad in the grand scheme of things? Food for thought.

Set the fire on fire.

>Prime 5
>Forge Tulpa
So, is /x/ full of lonely Mages or something?

Why is it that whenever people bring to bare their issues with mage, you're so dismissive? People whine about the issues everyday, and this response always comes up, 'just deal with it, it isn't that bad, the problem is small so that basically means there's no problem at all, just accept it', literally every time.

Maybe you're downplaying a design problem in a jump so that you don't have to acknowledge there's anything wrong with it?

I still disagree that it enforces limits based on what order you learned the arcana. I think it really is just saying that although you have to put your freebies into your starting arcana you can then learn magics in whatever order you want. I also recognize I'm probably not going to convince you otherwise, so this'll be my only post on this.

Considering Mind 5 can give themselves literal voices in their heads, it seems so.

That Did Not Happen from Generic Magical Girl puts the battle a step sideways from reality. As long as i don't lose there is no collateral damage.
For shit an enemy causes before i get him trapped in my barrier there's Ctrl-Z from Cardcaptor Sakura - any damage or lingering effects caused by a defeated enemy vanish (except death). For killed victims there's resurrection in various flavors available.

Never spoken on it before now. Just think that people get far too worked up over something that most people already seem to have found their solutions too. Maybe you're just hyper defensive?

>Be me
>Realize my hair is on fire by the smell
>Panic
>Realize I can shapeshift and have a small sense of pain and healing factor
>Might as well make this anazing
>Get on the floor
>Start to walk the dinosaur

Immediately leap to the moon, the lack of oxygen should put it out.

Then I try to figure out how I got hair to have on fire.

I don't see how you could read it like that. From the jump document, the only interpretation I could come away with is that you literally can never master any arcanum other than your two ruling arcana and the third that you get for free because those are your first three arcana.

Mmm, I'll concede the point on discrete levels of Gnosis and Arcana, as opposed to a more gradual progression from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5. But the upper limit of magic you're capable of feels like an in-universe limit.

Besides, there are ways around only getting 5 in a total of three Spheres. Softcap, Dark Wisdom, and the like should work, since unlike the hardcap on Arête the hardcap on number of spheres you can master isn't a fiat limit.

Maybe you're just insensitive and dense?

What I want to know is, why would anyone want to learn spells to induce schizophrenia in themselves, and what writer thought it was a good idea when regular people can do it using fucking internet guides?

>Berzerk Jump
>kinda want to spare everyone suffering as much as they do
>kinda want to see the show and storm the gates of hell

What do /jc/?

>hardcap on number of spheres you can master isn't a fiat limit
It is actually. That's the entire reason people are always arguing over it.

Aw, did I hurt babby's feelings? Sowwy.

Kill Griffith.

Maybe you're just tsundere?

Of course it is, I have a perk for that.

I douse myself with water!
>Now I'm wet.
I hit myself with fire to dry off!
>Much better.
Now since I'm being attacked by someone who uses fire spells I put a fire immunity shield on myself.
>And?
Oh, right. I look around for whoever lit me on fire.

Not that user, but you sound a lot more hurt than they do.

Panic.

Realise my hair IS fire.

Calm down, enjoy my fire-hair.

>This fag

No sense of right and wrong.

Yeah but before or after hes ascension to god hood?

I don't care how adorable Griffith is. He needs to go.

Doesn't matter. That's just the one thing you need to keep in mind no matter which you choose.

No, the hardcap is going over 5 Arête or 5 in any Sphere. The fact that you can't master more than 5 spheres is a consequence of not being able to go over 5 Arête rather than an imposed limit. So nothing stops you from getting around it using other methods.

Similarly, you might be limited in what you can do by 5 dots in a Sphere, but some of those limits can be surpassed by having Gift of the Thousand Master or Eye of Seth - you might not be able to create more unusual effects, but you can certainly scale up.

>wizards

>>hardcap on number of spheres you can master isn't a fiat limit
>It is actually. That's the entire reason people are always arguing over it.
What? No it isn't. You're lying. I demand quotes, prove it.

Considering he wipes out the entirety of the Silver Hawks to ascend to Godhood? Do it before. But immediately before, so you can destroy the Behelit as well.

Oh well.

The in universe explanation for the numbers is learning specific functions of magic. Making is something you can't do until you're 5 dots in game, but in the setting Making shows you have reached Mastery. Well, Making and Unmaking.

There's tiers like that for each one.

Because I'm pretty sure it's just copying the text, not exactly, but closely, from the book. The book says in almost the same words that the first magics you learn, as in, the ones you start with at character creation, have to be your paths ruling arcana. Where you go from there is totally up to you, but if you make an acanthus you need to have at least one dot in time, and one in fate.

You could then never put XP (or in our case CP or time and effort) into Time and Fate again, but then why did you go Acanthus?

In short, I'm certain it's just talking about character creation.

Aaand I just realized I typed up an entire post after saying I won't post more... Whatever.

Thing is, the whole pantheon needs to go and Griffith is the one who activates certain opportunities for a jumper to make it happen.

But what happens to Casca and Guts... man.

Is it right to risk those lives, risk the suffering of the entire world just for that chance though?

How do you explain to Guts that you knew if you failed?

Not either of those anons but here you go:
>You may obtain a maximum of five ranks here or over the course of the jump, but cannot reach archmastery (higher than five gnosis) until postspark.

Straight from the jump.

I suggest before, and stealing his Behelit, though you may need to get immunity to fate from somewhere to pull it off. But then collect more Behelit and use them as materials in forging weapons.

That isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about arcana 4 or whatever being fiat capped at adept forever at adept, not limitations on archmastery. Higher than 5 Gnosis doesn't even nessesarily mean archmastery for that matter, so I don't understand why it was capped either, but that's not the point. The point is the fiat cap on arcana.

Not them but one thing to note is that the God Hand are very powerful, but if your strong enough to think you can face them, if you can travel to dimensions it should help you out to find them and kill them, considering that letting Griffith activate the Behelit still curses them all to constanty be chased and shit by things like rapehorse and stuff and I know you don't want that to happen.

Hell, Skullknight somehow got to that hellscape during the ascension, even crashed through the Eclipse like a fucking badass.

Exactly my point in . The fiat is not being able to go over five dots. Since not having more than three sets of five dots is mechanics and not fiat, you can get around it with perks from other Jumps.

Thought there were two conversations going. I agree the Gnosis = Archmastery is silly and wrong. The fiat cap is straight up game mechanics and very annoying.

Complaining to us does nothing. Talk to the jumpmaker or drop it. You've made your points already. We can't do anything to help you. Let people talk about Mage without bringing up your complaints every time, or else, let people talk about other things without bringing up Mage.

... Y'know.

If I WERE the Benefactor, hypothetically speaking, creating unwitting copies of myself would be a great way to collect data.
I mean, what with all the science perks, all the little variables you can click around, like which jump came before this one or which perk I took from there, they could lead to all kinds of interesting mechanics and discoveries.
Maybe this version of me will destroy the world! Or maybe that one will have some great epiphany.

How interesting that would be, to see the ways my life could have gone, in a never ending butterfly effect spanning billions of years. I might never get bored.
And then I could take all their knowledge and hard work and use it to become even stronger. Becoming a fuller, more complete "me".
And if any of them took issue with that, it would be very easy to crush them.

So that's fun to think about, too.
Hypothetically speaking.

I CAST TIDAL WAVE.

Alright
I'm gonna Doom my way out of it
I've got the tech perks and the combat perks from that jump to open a portal and shoot them until they're dead.

>Talk to the jumpmaker or drop it
Didn't he literally say he was leaving because he'd rather do nothing and leave than actually listen to feedback that even he agrees with?

I don't know. It doesn't matter. Because nobody else can do anything with your complaints, and the rest of us have already heard them.

>this guy again
Why do we ever bother to talk about anything with you around? You kill conversation.

The point isn't to complain about mage even, it was to point out that Arcana is literally capped and limited by super gamey restrictions that don't make sense. 'people shouldn't complain about things that have ever been complained about before' and 'people shouldn't complain about things that aren't subject to change' are about the stupidest thing you could say at this point.

Use my charisma perks to drag the fire into an existencial crisis.


Portal to parallel dimension where you did defeated the villain but caused no collateral damage, but then mysteriously died/disappeared. Proceed to remplace your alternate self.

You didn't fix any of your spelling errors. You okay there Bill?

But you've already pointed it out. Everyone has heard by now. What good does going over the same points do now?

>people shouldn't complain about things that have ever been complained about before
But they shouldn't. What purpose does it serve besides causing the entire thread to devolve into endless bitching?

Die.

Actually, I don't have a quote as proof, but there's a note in the jump itself that says that you can't have more than three Arcanum at rank 5, with the justification 'White Wolf implemented strange and arbitrary restrictions in the game mechanics' so that's just how it works in jump I guess.

Open the Jump, highlight, paste into thread. Otherwise STFU with this easily falsifiable shit.

You are able to train your Gnosis and your Arcana over the course of the jump but cannot
exceed the listed Arcanum mastery as listed on the chart under Gnosis. Postjump you
will be able to continue training these skills (again with the chartlimitation in place) but
the training will be only half as fast outside of the world of darkness setting

The chart limitation on arcanum is fiat.

>the training will be only half as fast outside of the world of darkness setting
Why? This seems even more arbitrary than the Arcana limitation.

Medaka Box

>Drop-in
>King of Fouls (200)
>Technique Mimicry (500)
>Auto-Pilot (700)
>Octopus (1100)
>Provocation (1300)

>Minus (1000)

So my build actually ended up with something resembling a theme, and I even recalled a quote from Paranatural that sum up this build really well.
>In the grand scheme of things I'm not actually that strong, but I do have a knack for cheap shots

However, I have no idea how well I'd do since I know nothing about this series besides that it's apparently a parody of a lot of shonen tropes. How will I do with this build? Who should I watch out for? What kinds of perks should I have before I do this jump? How bad is the Minus drawback, exactly?

Is there any chance that someone with the Minus drawback would try to abuse the rules about how most people who aren't you will lose their powers when they "grow up" by waiting a couple years to take revenge?

>easily falsifiable
It's literally in the fucking jump doc dude. Anyone can go to it and see that it's there.

Huh. Well that's silly. I think that's something you can safely ignore if you have a perk like Dark Wisdom.

Including the person who says "it's totally in there." If you're going to argue that a Jump says something, you might as well go grab it and post it.

I can't copy paste from pdf's you dummy.

Also this

You may however train up to three of your arcana and
your Gnosis up to Rank five over the course of the jump; assuming you put the time and
effort into practicing, and exploring the natural mysteries of the world of darkness. Why
can only three of my arcana be at rank five you ask? Because White Wolf implemented
strange and arbitrary restrictions that’s why!

Dark wisdom only works on spells though. You'd be better off wanking Softcap or Conjoined Conjures can do it, if you wank it's possible at all.

Mage was a mistake.

Why not? That other guy seems able to do it just fine.

Just ignore the limitation or make a 2e jump. Jesus.

But that requires taking initiative.

It's just so much easier to whine.

Can you believe that Gnosis and Arcana caps were things people proposed and thought were good ideas a hundred threads ago? While I was looking through the archives, Merchant had several posts talking about how they were both necessary for balance reasons, not even because of Archmastery, just the magic itself at mastery.

Mkay.

That and the whole "allowing multiple Exaltations is bad" "No, let me a Solar-Dragonblood-Infernal-Alchemical or you're a bitch" is just sad.

First you did a great job picking up Auto-Pilot and Octopus, you effectively have a better spider sense.
Second watch out for Medaka, Kumagawa and Aijimu. Just don't piss either off, you could probably buddy up with Kumagawa considering you took a minus. If you see a man with flaming hair,and looks kinda like Akuma, run the fuck away and let canon handle itself. That guys is Lihiko, who "defeated" Aijimu, the trillion year old reality warper who has quadrillions of skills, he defeated her with a fucking rubber band.

>Hiw bad is the Minus Drawback?
It's okay, people commonly associate a Minus as an edgy teenager, but their more like a joker that openly smiles at their own failures and mishaps. But there is straight up canon evidence proving that a minus can be changed by love or finding meaning in their life thats more positive, like Kumagawa or Emukae did with their minus.
>Abusing growing up
You wouldn't lose your powers even if you didn't have minus simply because ou bought your skills, they can never leave you even if you grew up. The fiat "growing out of your power" was to prevent someone with savvy knowledge of the series social fu-ing their way to getting something like All-Fiction by manipulating the characters.

Jumpers, has the plot of any jump managed to drag you in? Without plotbound drawbacks?

I'll wait until after the disaster that is Mage the Ascension collapses in on itself and disappears from peoples minds before thinking about it.

The problem is, there isn't that much actually different in my opinion, and the mage jump we have is good in a number of ways, it just has a lot of issues.

We wouldn't want a 2e jump if the mage jump was just updated so that the only thing explicitly banned was archmastery instead of higher Gnosis. And if the learning rate wasn't arbitrarily halved post jump. And if Arcana weren't capped at only three masteries ever.

Gnosis and Arcana caps are good, though. White Wolf breaks down completely after five dots. But I'm totally in favor of saying "you can't go beyond Mastery, but you can start mastering other Spheres if you're really dedicated to it and have some perks that actually let you do that."

>implying ignoring the limitation takes initiative
Have you seen how many people post about the fact that they just straight up ignore or wank to circumvent it every time this comes up?

Doesn't higher gnosis just increase your mana pool and reduce the time length of rituals while making paradox worse? If you ban Archmastery, what can higher gnosis on its own even do to justify banning it?

Don't for get revoking paradox, although I don't really care too much about that, people will bitch about that even if everything else was changed according to the threads complaints.

>Abusing growing up
I think user was talking more about the jumper, who won't lose their powers after growing up, taking revenge on people who DID lose their powers when they grew up.

Which is better, an ability that makes tech into bioteh, or an ability that lets you make tech out of biotech?

Like one lets you make living creatures out of robots and one lets you make robots out of living creatures.

Despite the fact that I've never read it, I want a Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer jump.

Oh, my mistake then. He could probably do it if you wanted to. Very few people actually kept their powers after the second time skip. The only ones that kept their powers were Medaka Kurokami and Shironue, arguably you could assume Kumagawa kept his after he found Aijimu.

>porquenolosdos.png

More seriously though, I think it depends on what skills you have to support it. Like, someone who has fleshcrafting of some kind would get a lot more out of biotech, for example.

That said, in a vacuum, I'd say tech out of biology, because there's less chance of it growing out of control and killing everything.