Imperium Asunder

Primarch Personalities Calibration edition

This is a 40k alt-lore thread , new posters are welcome.
The wiki is not as up to date as we'd like, feel free to post questions/clarifications/ideas.
1d4chan.org/wiki/Imperium_Asunder

Post your writefaggotry and argue about how cool it is.

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Heres an idea, write a short blurb about each Primarch and/or Legion to summarise your understanding of them.

Others respond with their own, and we can calibrate them all to fill the blanks, remove double-ups, and all round correct our understanding.

Previous thread

So, Grah'anak.
If I recall correctly, he's got a near Night Haunter vibe to him, drops from space to ruin people's days.
Legion is big into animal symbolism. Maybe they have berserk gene seed?
And I think as time goes on, they get religious, conceptualizing themselves as the Emperor's wrath.

Excerpt from the Sundering Saga, an epic poem from the Jade Empire detailing the Heresy, at least from a popular standpoint. Ca. 80 M31

At this point in the epic, Xun has returned to Tepectitlan, where he has heard scattered reports of a monster loose and ravaging his facilities. Expecting another raid, he waits for the beast, only to find it is his brother, Rubinek.
Then up from the moors, under mist and crags

Went Rubinek, Emperor's wrath he bore,

This man-tearer seeking some Sky Serpent's son to snare,

And buildings to burn, blood to bathe in.

Towards Tepectitlan's towers he slouched under nights net,

Thinking another rampage to run, castles to crush,

For many had been those noxious nights when that ran that wrecker

Through red streets, tearing townsmen asunder, with cruel claws and jagged jaws.

So when sought he that which he envied to erase, and towards that city stole,

He laughed loudly to himself in blood-joy and hopes of envy eased.

But never before or since did he such hardship find in Xun's home.

He got to the gates, bold and brass

With Old Night's horrors he wrenched from hinges,

With phosphex he burned and rads he reaped, crawling flame consuming.

Then laughed he to his heart, upon such a city seeing,

For the monster was minded to sever all those souls,

Ere morning should dawn, and ruin raise where once had the city stood.

Through streets and avenues he tore, denizens defiling as they fled.

Towards Xun's hall he made, and there a sentry spied.

Stalwart Zha Cipactli, of many campaigns credited,

Hero of 88-6 and Bassen Rift, already to every man's aid rushing.

This worthy warrior Rubinek seized, and asunder tore,

Bone-frame bit, streaming blood drank,

As Xun his foe watched, his strength to gauge,

Before boldly he stood on towering temple's top

Storm surrounding him and challenge calling.

"I see, bold beast, that courage enough you have to mere men crush,

But face now your equal meet and see if your strength suffices."

Roaring ran Rubinek up temple stairs, to pyramid top,

This man-harder filled with hatred of our hero.

Rubinek one of the Emperor's son had been, but in his heart jealousy had festered.

Hated he sorcerer's skill and psyker's power, for to his mind, mutants they were.

But upon seeing Xun's cities and righteous works, did into envy enter

And to Old Night tear out his beating heart and with abominable engine replace it.

This now, did power the bitter bastard son, whom envy ensnared,

and though a mighty one, no fame enjoyed.

So at Xun he charged, his war cry raised.

"Life eternal, death eternal"

And then it was that Xun his kinsman knew.

Call me old fashioned but I cant read poetry that doesnt rhyme. I just cant make it sound good in my head.

Ah, gotcha. It's Anglo-Saxon Alliterative verse.

Not a criticism mind you, certainly not on your part anyway. Just saying I dont know how to read them properly.

Kind of like reading lyrics without the beat.

Good idea.

>Angels of Light
The defenders and governors of the Imperium Minoris and steadfast proponents of the Imperial Truth. Ordered, disciplined, and dutiful, the Angels of Light are the poster children of the Adeptus Astartes.

>Iron Hearts
Mutant rejects turned cybernetic supermen, the Iron Hearts are the product of both triumph and failure, their ruinous gene-seed bolstered by blasphemous technology. Tenacious beyond measure, they fight solely for their own survival in a galaxy that has declared them anathema.

>Silver Spears
Scholars and artisans of the battlefield, the Silver Spears prize grace and magnificence above all else, their Legion culture eschewing the use of mechanized units in favour of daring infantry tactics.

>Void Lords
Scary spacemen?

>Fists of Mars
The technological cornerstone of the Crusader States and former stewards of Mars, the Fists rule their State in delicate balance with the Mechanicus, their unparalleled industrial capacity bolstering their forces with legions of armoured tanks and titans.

>Paladins of Kor
Idealists and valiants in a galaxy set against them, the Paladins' diversity is their strength, their mastery over combined arms and acceptance of heretical technologies giving the edge they need to uphold their lofty ideals amid the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.

>Undying Scions
The steadfast protectors of the Unyielding Vigil and mankind's bulwark against the forces of Chaos. Clad in deathless steel, the Scions revere the immortal strength of the dreadnought, fighting with little heed for their own lives or personal glories, giving their all to the defense of their State.

>Sky Serpents
Warrior-mystics of the Jade Empire, the Sky Serpents prize fluidity and foresight, their battle plans punishing inflexibility and shortsightedness. Where the others seek victory in the materium, the Serpents seek it in the Warp, heading the Loyalist development of arcane technologies and sorceries.

>Crimson Warhawks
Raiders and void-fighters, the Crimson Warhawks will not rest until the forces of Chaos have bled their life's blood in recompense for their sins. Measured and precise, they favour covert operations and ambush tactics, striking key targets before fading away into the blackness of space.

>Behemoth Guard
Once vaunted engineers and inventors striding the cutting edge of Imperial technology, now mutated tech-sorcerers that mingle flesh and steel in pursuit of ever greater killing arts. Masters of cybernetic manipulation and daemon-binding, the forges of the Behemoth Guard are breeding pits for monsters half flesh, half machine, and utterly tainted by the touch of Chaos.

>Second Sons
Fighters for peace and stability at any cost, the Second Sons were tireless, devoted soldiers, their renown spoiled only by the strange affinity for radiation that would eventually drive them to the point of madness. Lost to Chaos, they now see only one road to peace - the eradication of all life, preferably beneath the scourging heat of nuclear fire.

>Bloodhounds
Hunters by nature and nurture, the Bloodhounds were once the attack dogs of the Emperor, driven solely by the thrill of predation and the rush of the kill. Berserkers and warriors born, they now serve a darker master, their Wild Hunts painting the stars red.

>Storm Hammers
The sons of Engerand are as blunt as their namesake, an instrument of the Emperor's wrath descending upon his vile foes. Masters of the decisive offensive, the Storm Hammers thunder into combat in the heaviest of armour, wielding weapons that sow discord and panic among their enemies.

>Knights Exemplar
Chivalrous, honorable, and peerless in single combat, the Knights Exemplar stood for everything good and fair in man. Adrift and scattered in the void, they yet fight on, campaigning endlessly at the very fringes of Loyalist space.

Za Funerus!

>Warp Raiders
Archeotects and explorers, the Warp Raiders delved too greedily and too deep, their obsession with xenos technology and sorcerous power proving to be their downfall. Today they are piratical raiders, striking without warning from the Warp, their motives ever shrouded in mystery.

>Oathsworn
The first keepers of the holy gene-seed, the Oathsworn were the protectors and genetic purity among the ranks of the Astartes. Once a vast Legion bolstered by reckless cloning and dubious gene-sorcery, the Oathsworn exist today as fragmented Crusader fleets, offering their swords to whoever is in need of assistance in the long war against Chaos.

>Judgement Bringers
Masters of artillery, the Judgement Bringers are driven by their own gnawing sense of inferiority to be relentless and terrible foes to any in their path, taking no greater pleasure than in seeing the lofty brought low under hails of cleansing ordinance. Merciless and determined to drag the rest of the galaxy down to their level, they have few qualms left in the service of Chaos, serving the Warmaster unquestioningly.

Good prompt. Honestly the prompts for this collaboration have been fantastic.

>Angels of Light
Byzantine empire builders. They plan meticulously for any possibility.
Heresy Era, they're primarily heavy cavalry on jet bikes, but adapt with the times.

>Iron Hearts
The legion nearly failed due to unstable gene seed, but through aide from the Oathsworn, heretek,and sheer grit, they endure. They're the hardest bastards out there and know it. They may also have a fanatical hatred of the witch. Even during the brief time before they were purged, they were a grim and insular lot, often undertaking near suicidal strategies just to prove their mettle.

>Silver Spears
Graceful infantry army, probably use jump packs a lot now that I think of it. I imagine them as being half way between Emperor's Children and Imperial Fists.

>Void Lords
I'm imagining them as Space Marines in the truest sense, denizens of the deeps. They are recruited from airless rocks and floating hulls and train to fight in zero g. When they board a ship, they often intentionally depressurize vast sections.

In planetary campaigns they inspire dread with vast warships hanging in low orbit, unleashing week long bombardments, before descending into the smoke. When you finally see them, it is as blood-spattered ghosts in a ruined city, striding through mist. They fight in silence or with eerie chanting or bestial growls.
At other times, they strike from nowhere, ships appearing suddenly, slaughtering everyone in an area before withdrawing.

>Fists of Mars
Metal men. I imagine them as "good guy Behemoth Guard"-- heavy tanks, heavy firepower, but without weaponized screams. Instead they March for the Omnissiah, and fight alongside Knights, Titans, Thallax, and Skitarii.

Oh, by the by, I've been gradually expanding on the Iron Hearts wiki. Hope I'm not going to far with the WILL NOT DIE MEN OF STEEL thing.

I get the impression that since they've been fighting basically everyone forever these should be pretty much the hardest bastards in the galaxy.

>Paladins of Kor
Impractically idealistic, they're caught in a constant tension between their ideals and a universe that seems to delight in screwing them over.
In battle, they're actually pretty pragmatic, favoring artillery paired with skilled soldiers. I'm not sure if it's more a WWI feel, shoot and scoot, or napoleonischen.
Kor stubbornly holds to his ideals, unaware that the Lawbringers break his edicts on a regular basis and are supported by covert groups from the Jade Empire.
They're kind of like a less unlucky lamenters and you can't help but respect them.

>Undying Scions
They used to be neolithic raven Guard (and probably had a different name), but following Sarco's attempt to wrassle an Eldar Titan, they have mellowed out and become a force of dreadnoughts. They're to the Iron Hearts as The Fists of Mars are to the Behemoth Guard and the Salamanders are to the Death Guard.
These days they do a combination of sneaky tactics and dreadnought assault.
They also have a necron cult. Whoops.

>Sky Serpents
I've written a lot about them, so I'm going to contrast them here with a few legions similar to them.
At first glance, they look a lot like the Angels of Light, with both legions preference for intricate maneuver warfare, but the method is very different. Alexios has contingency plans for everything, he speaks in absolutes. Alexios likes clear cut certainties.
Xun doesn't. He prefers to have his pieces set up to dynamically support each other. He sets up simple, self contained components, the interaction of which will result in the desired outcome. Ideally, no single component is essential, instead, the entire network is fault tolerant because it is cohesive but decentralized.
Both primarchs fight smart and know their enemy, but Xun figures he can't predict everything and places a great value on improvisation and handing the unexpected.
Xun places great value on using his opponent's strengths against them, seeking battle only on his terms. He does this through control of position, but also the data space. Anything he can do to disorganize his enemy, he does. Hmm. I might make up some terror brigades, who fight like Night Lords, sort of an extension of Section 8. Mostly he does it with speed to divide his foes.
Unlike Alexios, Xun goes for the minimal force required. He'll accept a surrender and count on good administration and a secret police (and relocation) to prevent rebellion.
Xun actively does art and promotes it in his legion, seeing them as partners in humanity's future. He believes that it is their duty to inspire humanity and to do that, they must be human as well as post-human.

The Jade Empire ends up being pretty sneaky as they try to find an Emperor based solution to the problem of Chaos. The big difference is in how Xun approaches the matter. Xun wants the people to be inspired to become what the Emperor intended them to be. It's not about right and wrong, but about maturity and discipline to seek old school style virtue, arete, or the Dao.

He's also distinct from Anshul in a lot of ways. They're both esoteric philosophical oriented psykers, but Anshul seeks The Truth, The Light, to be found by piercing the illusion. (I'll get to him later, but I'm thinking of him as an old school Buddhist who goes chaos happy.) Xun doesn't make a divide between imminent and transcendent. The all is the all. The way is the way. It is all around, and it so clear and obvious that it is often hard to see, like a fish in water.
This is what Xun loves about math-- it underpins reality, but where Anshul calls the math primal, a logos from which things emanate, Xun says the apple is the math and the math is the apple.
Enlightenment must be compatible with the concerns of life, otherwise what point is it?
Xun is a Daoist, a Zen Buddhist.

Bump while I work.

>It's not about right and wrong, but about maturity and discipline to seek old school style virtue, arete, or the Dao.

Interestingly, this is something Aodhán would agree with. Where they'd differ would probably be how this would manifest.

Current WIP for the models for the Legio, 1st legion in top left and 5 per row going down.

You can identify missing models by the spots, any feedback or ideas for armament or detailing is appreciated.

Oathsworn and Iron Hearts guys are closest to done.

I think a lot of the Primarchs have overlapping or complementary views and end up parallel to each other in weird ways.

I think the big difference between how Xun and Aodhan deal with individual fulfilment. Aodhan, I think, requires separation for the individual to flourish, while Xun says that one can still serve and be their own person. Freedom is in the approach and chasing freedom, like chasing pleasure is ultimately a snare.
Xun says that freedom and individuality are only expressive in relation to others, I think. Or perhaps that no matter what you do, there are always external demands on you. Nobody is wholly in control. The only thing you control is how you approach it and that's where the self comes in.
Which sounds great, but then you see the Jade Empire, with manufactorum workers working double shifts and even if they do find fulfilment in their work and paint a little when they get home, you wonder whether Aodhan had it right.
Ultimately, I think Xun is practical and is almost always willing to give up the absolute to produce a functional system. Better to have some than to have none.
I think. We'll see how it sounds later on, because he, like Anshul is an inherently ethereal being, and Xun tries to be an example of all that is best in humanity.

2 questions:
What do you think of the direction Rubinek is taking. Heck, what do you think of 2, is the Dark Angel a Sky Serpent?

Rubinek sounds fine to me so far, I had pictured him less as an individual Konrad Kurze/Angron bloodthirsty type guy however. That story is told in a fairly poetic sense though so that's fine, I'd just rather he not become not!Angron.

That Dark Angel librarian is what I have so far for a Sky Serpent; Sky Serpents have a distinctive number of Psykers in their legion, right? Other than that I don't know what a Sky Serpent looks like other than bright green and white, feel free to give me your imagining.

>Legio I: The Bloodhounds
The Bloodhounds will chase any foe relentlessly. The Emperor's attack dogs are without hesitation or fear, and behind their cover of brutality lies the cunning of skilled huntsmen. Chosen of Khorne.

>Legio II: The Crimson Warhawks
The Warhawks are masters of small-unit covert tactics as well as air superiority. Mobility, positioning, speed, and instinct are their strengths.

>Legio III: Fists of Mars
The Fists maintain a close relationship with the mechanicus of mars, earning them more support than other legions. Lots of tanks, mechanized transports, high quality mastercrafted weapons and armor, etc. After the heresy they rescue and house the mechanicum in exile, and help to establish new industrial forgeworlds in the east.

>Legio IV: Silver Spears
Haughty bastards who think they're the shit. Focus on high mobility infantry combat, but not in a covert way like the Warhawks. Marines often ignore enemies they think are beneath their skill, letting lesser allies face them instead. Chosen of Slaanesh.

>Legio V: Warp Raiders
Archaologists, prophets, and madmen. They use recovered xenotech as well as Thousand Sons tier battlefield sorcery, teleporting, reading their opponents' minds, or just blasting them with warpflame. They farsee the heresy long before it happens, and like the alpha legion try to manipulate it for the best possible ending. Instead they wind up with the worst possible ending. Chosen of Malal.

>Legio VI: The Storm Hammers
Nordic Knights in Space. They fight with overwhelming waves of massed infantry, hoping to break the enemy before the momentum of their assault inevitably breaks. Honorable, chivalrous, but with occasional glimpses of barbarity beneath the surface.

>Legio VII: Judgement Bringers
An extreme inferiority complex. They use artillery fire in the extreme, preferring to destroy their enemy with indirect long range fire. Become the Warmaster's closest servants beacuse they're too self-conscious to think for themselves.

>Legio VIII: Void Lords
Space Marines in Space. They have a kickass space hulk which they troll around the galaxy in. They drop from their hulk onto planets to terrorize and destroy, with very little strategy or planning, like maddened monsters. Kill everything you can find, and leave those who hide so filled with terror they will be cowed for the rest of their lives.

>Legio IX: Oathsworn
Most numerous of the legions due to their mastery of the geneseed. Early in the crusade they are guardians of the geneseed, and as each new primarch is found, that responsibility is passed down. During the heresy they hold the line on Sol for months, waiting for loyalists reinforce them against the tide of traitors. They are ground down to a handful of survivors, and after the heresy those survivors scatter to various noble or ignoble deeds.

>Legio X: Paladins of Kor
Noblebright paladins in a grimdark universe. Anders doesn't buy into the xenophobic, nationalist rhetoric of the Emperor of Mankind. He sees all species as deserving membership in the Galactic Empire, and gets into trouble with dad a lot over xenos. Becomes increasingly reclusive and noncommittal over the years as the cognitive dissonance between himself and the nature of the world he finds himself in becomes too much to handle.

Haha, yeah, it's actually a recasting of Beowulf's fight with Grendel. The bards on Tepectitlan remember the Iron Hearts raids and that Xun fought him on a pyramid and tore out his heart, and filled in the gaps with traditional tropes.

In actuality, Rubinek is very much in control of himself, though driven by a need for revenge on a galaxy that wronged him, bitter, hating that the witch gets an empire, etc.

And yep, they totally do. I'd imagined them in teal and grey. My computer is still not hooked up from the move, so I'm going to dig through and see if I can find some reference pics on my phone.
Here's Lil Horus, to give a sense of hue.

>Legio XI: The Second Sons
The Emperor's soldiers. Lacking the ambitious empire-building or haughty pride of other legions, the Second Sons simply march on to their goals, and win by any means necessary. Favoring salted earth tactics using nuclear archaeobombs, rad weapons, phosphex, red death virus bombs, etc. Worlds 'conquered' by the Second Sons are usually uninhabitable. They start the heresy as loyalists but the brutal fighting and extreme radiation drives them insane. Chosen of Nurgle.

>Legio XII: The Angels of Light
The Angels are empire builders. They gather their compliant worlds into a little empire, and their primarch Alexios spends more time managing it than on the battlefield. In battle they favor heavy cavalry jetbikes supported by drop pod or rhino mobile infantry squads. Their successor chapters vary wildly in tactical style.

>Legio XIII: Sky Serpents
Chinese Aztec Sorcerors. With minds keen for mysticism, circuitous tactics, and even high art, the Sky Serpents are highly intellectual for space marines. In battle they use a dispersed, uninterruptible command structure, while doing everything they can to disrupt the enemy's command structure and supply lines.

>Legio XIV: Behemoth Guard
Technosorcerors and warp smiths. They fuse metal with warp flesh, create strange cybernetic monstrosities, and bind daemons into engines of war. Their daemon prince hears the voices of the chaos gods in his head, and is a twisted Jekyl and Hyde monstrosity of bodyhorror and creepy iron masks.

>Legio XV: Arms of Asura
Religious fanatics, but in a space hindu way rather than a space catholic way. They seek divine union with the gods, aka daemonic posession. Their primarch has six arms and can fuck up planets with his mind. Chosen of Tzeentch.

>Legio XVI: EXPUNGED

>Legio XVII: The Iron Hearts
Twisted mutants who should have been aborted, made into immortal juggernauts by cybernetic technoheretical implants. Tough to the point of absurdity, and masters of fortification. Heretics before the heresy even starts.

>Legio XVIII: Undying Scions
At first a highly mobile legion of tarzans, when their primarch gets interred in a dreadnought they revere him so much they want dreadnoughts too. Unyielding, unflinching, and unburdened with the pettyness of the other crusader states. Chosen of the Void Dragon.

>Legio IXX (not XIV get your numerals right brother) the Negators
Conan the Barbarian plus The Joker. They are fiercely independent, chafing under the yoke of the Emperor and later the Warmaster. They LOVE to take down big targets, competing with each other for who can kill the largest foes.

>Legio XX: The Knights Exemplar
Duelists of unparalleled skill, warriors of unequaled honor. When their primarch dies on Terra they are shattered and broken. Some join the other crusader states, but many reject them and fight to hold Segmentum Tempestus, resolute despite the inevitability of defeat.

Enough Xun ramblings.
>Crimson Warhawks
Awww hell yeah. These are stealthy and fast offspring of Jaghatai and Corvus. I imagine them with a fairly quiet demeanor, introverted. You only see inside when they're doing an operation. Then there's that manic grin.
There's an aspect of the daredevil to them, an internal adrenaline junkie they keep quiet, but it's there, behind the subtlety.
I keep imagining them as Mongolian or Native American--Lakota/Souix, but they seem pretty European knight.
Post heresy, that love of speed and doing becomes darkened into a need for revenge.

>Behemoth Guard
Pre-Heresy and pre-Gengrat, they're an out rider legion. They have a fondness for tanks and a rebellious demeanor at odds with their siege tactics. They're disciplined, but let out that restlessness through eternally tinkering. At first, they're not dealing with high mechanicum arcana. They're operating without resupply and are doing field repairs. They don't really respect their Auxiliae, which are penal battalions anyways, and develop the habit of kit bashing vehicle wrecks into unorthodox designs. Gengrat intensifies this odd duality of violent restlessness kept in check by Iron discipline and further expands that outlet in craft.
They'd been marginal, had been called little better than the Orkz, rattling around in custom built war engines. This said, Behemoth Guard workmanship is top tier. Gengrat too participated in it, his most infamous creation being Ancalagon, an metal monster made of Baneblade and Mastadon components.

Detractors called him "the new Warboss".
However, they were brutally efficient and won respect for their campaigns. And they got more creative, and, well, you know the rest.

Maybe this for librarians, but I'm not sure.

I think you hit the nail on the head.
I really like the way you write as well. Good phrasing.

>now to read the rest of the thread

Yeah Vanth is A++

>chosen of the void dragon

>Angels of Light
Ultramarines.

>Iron Hearts
Bunch of mutants that like tech.

>Silver Spears
Idealized warriors.

>Void Lords
"I can't let you do that Dave."

>Fists of Mars
Bunch of guys that picked up the pieces of the Mechanicus. They make most of the tech for the Loyalists.

>Paladins
My guys.

>Undying Scions
Eternal guards of one of the shittiest parts of the galaxy. Lotsa Dreadnoughts.

>Sky Serpents
Aztec Monks that are REALLY into the Emperor.

>Crimson Warhawks
Guerrilla fighters in space. Also hate a lot of things.

>Behemoth Guard
They ARE the metal boxes.

>Second Sons
Ghouls. Radiation. War never changes.

>Bloodhounds
Wild Hunt wolfmen.

>Storm Hammers
Big guys in big armour being big.

>Knights Exemplar
Classic knights in terminator armour.

>Warp Raiders
Dark Eldar but human.

>Oathsworn
Creepy German doctors.

>Judgement Bringers
Iron Warriors but self-conscious.

White armor librarians, teal chapter colors? Sounds fine to me. Is there a preferred weapon for their legion?

All this is very helpful to me. The Iron Hearts summary seems spot on to me.

>Arms of Asura
Thoughtful space daemons that don't really fight unless that's what needs to happen.

>[EXPUNGED]
[REDACTED]

>Negators
Doomguy and Conan fucked, and the result was these guys.

>I'm imagining them as Space Marines in the truest sense, denizens of the deeps. They are recruited from airless rocks and floating hulls and train to fight in zero g. When they board a ship, they often intentionally depressurize vast sections.

In planetary campaigns they inspire dread with vast warships hanging in low orbit, unleashing week long bombardments, before descending into the smoke. When you finally see them, it is as blood-spattered ghosts in a ruined city, striding through mist. They fight in silence or with eerie chanting or bestial growls.
At other times, they strike from nowhere, ships appearing suddenly, slaughtering everyone in an area before withdrawing.

I think this is the most fluff ive seen to date on these guys, in saying that, I like it.

Interesting addition. The years have not keen kind to their psyche it seems.

>Space Marines in Space. They have a kickass space hulk which they troll around the galaxy in. They drop from their hulk onto planets to terrorize and destroy, with very little strategy or planning, like maddened monsters. Kill everything you can find, and leave those who hide so filled with terror they will be cowed for the rest of their lives.

>There's an aspect of the daredevil to them, an internal adrenaline junkie they keep quiet, but it's there, behind the subtlety.

WELL SPOTTED GOOD SIR. I've been trying to drop hints, little bits here and there without being like too on the nose. I'm glad someones picking up what im putting down.

I imagine the Void Lords probably have Cabin Fever/Arctic Hysteria/Prarie Madness in the extreme. They don't get leave, they don't spend any time in civilization, they aren't socialized at all. They just sit on the Void Lord deep in the warp for like years at a time, then when they finally have an outlet for their isolation-caused insanity, they let rip.

Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure what color robes. Perhaps because of Anshul, Librarians have Saffron robes?


The legion tends to be fond of power macahuitls, Chinese style Guangdao and Jian. I imagine their Despoiler squads with Chain Axes whenever possible.
There's also a sizable contingent with lightning claws.

Ahoy.

You said in the last thread, that you thought the other legions would consider the Angels weak. What is the reason for this? Or rather, why does the Primarch Alexios think that, is it just paranoia?

>Wtf is this new captcha.

...wendigo psychosis?

Is there any room for a new Xenos/non-Human faction in this setting?

Also, in your writefaggotry yesterday, you implied Alexios' champion challenged other Primarchs first.

Which Primarchs do you think he would have gone to first?

In a similar vein. Which Primarchs does everyone think would agree/wouldn't agree/maybes.

Im writing abit of faggotry myself, discussing the duel after its taken place.

Post it.

No harm, no foul.

it will be judged though

Damn right it better not be fowl.

>Which Primarchs do you think he would have gone to first?
Ones that aren't too good to fuck up Alexios' plan but too proud to accept the challenge. Kashaln's a good example.

>on the void Lords
Yeah, I figured they needed some love. The concept is so badass, so the question is, in part, how are they distinct from other orbital strike and terror assault forces, and I think a big part of it is that insanity. They've stared into that Abyss too long and in fighting monsters, they've become them.

>Warhawks
I try.

>Second Sons
In a world of heroes and demigods, these are soldiers, professionals. I imagine that they don't like what they have to do--that's the big difference between them and the Behemoth Guard.
In the end, the only way to do their job is to kill everything and they're working on it. I imagine they'd adore Full Metal Jacket and identify strongly with Joker.

>Bloodhounds
These guys are kind of incongruous. Balthasar is a charming psychopath, but then, really, all primarchs are.
I imagine him in a pith helmet with a big moustache. "By Jove, I dare say that Ork intends to charge our position. Jolly good sport, I say, wot."
At the same time, he narcs on Rubinek and Oramar, and in his back story, he has ideals, concern for baseline humanity, so I'm not quite sure where he goes off the rails.
I imagine his legion follows his lead and becomes increasingly brutal until they devolve into the Wild Hunt.

>Thoughtful space daemons that don't really fight unless that's what needs to happen.

Kek.

>"Have you considered Chaos, planetary governor-kun?"
>"Yeah... it's not really what I'm looking for... so..."
>"Oh, I see, well, hmm, [psychic grunting intensifies] you should consider, hmm, [tzeentch noises] harder, I think."

Thanks, glad to know I got the Hawks right.

>At the same time, he narcs on Rubinek and Oramar,
I don't think he narcs on them or should narc on them, he's just the guy the Emperor calls to purge them once they've been narc'd on. I can't see the big friendly chap narc on anybody. He's more the sort to take you aside and try to straighten you out himself.

>so I'm not quite sure where he goes off the rails.
I haven't really brought this up much but the idea is that the Warmaster corrupts him through his Warpack Captains. Balthasar is a boisterous, jovial sort of dude who occasionally turns beast mode, like Bobby B from Game of Thrones. His men take after him in that sense, but the beast within is much stronger in them. They're bloodthirsty in a way that he is not. The Anathame Blades given to the captains after the conquest of the Interex help to exacerbate that problem.

Balthasar's fall is supposed to be a bit tragic. Here's the noblest of the primarchs, role model to most of his brothers. When the Emperor finds a new primarch, Balthasar is the one who really explains to them what's going on and what their place in the future is.

He falls to chaos in the same way that a friendly and loving dog can turn into a wild mongrel if his trainer is malicious.

Think of him sort of like Beast from X-Men. Deep inside there's a constant urge to howl at the moon, run on all fours, and rend flesh from flesh. However, he's pushed that beast deep, deep down, by acting as far in the opposite direction as he can. He's scared of the blood thirst, scared it will make him lose who he is, so he hides it as best he can. The Warmaster unleashes that beast, bringing it to the surface and pushing friendly, happy balthasar deep into the recesses of his own mind.

Real quick, does Xun tend to talk while he fights?

>Here's the noblest of the primarchs, role model to most of his brothers.
You mean aside from the guy who is literally a plot device to serve that purpose?

noblest is the wrong word to use
friendliest?
goofiest?

Most personable?

Yeah. He's the guy they'd share a Saturnine Ale with as they sat in orbit and watched a world burn.

Ah, gotcha. In that way, he's probably an interesting pairing with Grah'anak, who lives the beast, Gengrat, who says why not both? And maybe Xun, who agrees with Gengrat about both, but instead uses them as a push and pull in his own psyche.
(I'm trying to make Xun really well grounded, so that when he goes nuts and obsesses over divinity, it's plausible that his whole crazy plan is actually correct. That and I'm considering a jaguar-man warrior theme, like in Aztec myth. Which is also why I'm doing that fight scene in alliterative verse. It has to be read aloud, but I want it to feel like Gengrat is being mauled by some sort of beast, hinting at the heart of the sage.)

>Storm Hammers
I'm imagining Thor as he appears in myths where Loki strings him along. They're dense, blunt, honorable, after a fashion. They're the sort to knight people by smacking them as hard as they can. They don't hide their feelings and they may be crude, but you can count on them to the bitter end.

Depends. This is what I have so far, but it's an in-universe document: But probably, yeah. Xun sees sparing and debate as the same thing. When he stops talking, you know you're in trouble.

Also, in terms of Role Model, it's sort a Mom vs Dad situation. Very different kinds of looking up to someone.

Everyone looks up to Klaus and respects him. They value his respect so much they're too scared to show him any vulnerability. They puff themselves up to impress him.

Balthasar, on the other hand, would never judge you. He would never look down on you. You can trust him with anything. Come hear and tell your buddy Balthasar what's wrong, pal.

>They value his respect so much they're too scared to show him any vulnerability. They puff themselves up to impress him.

The pain that would cause Klaus if he were ever to find out.

Hilariously dark. I love it.

>Knights Exemplar
Forget what Kor may say, the guys are the Paladins of the Imperium. They hold themselves to insane standards because they are the symbols of the Imperium. They are the Emperor's heralds, with an attitude like Sigismund and Dorn.
I think they go for Tartaros over Cataphractii and weild greatswords.
Klaus is a really decent guy. He's that King of Knights.

>Warp Raiders
They're mall scorpions with eldar wraithbone folded a thousand times. At the same time, they know a lot. And this has driven them slightly mad. So they do their damnest to fight chaos, by using chaos, with mixed results.
Xun thinks they need Emperor.

Oramar dies trying to warn someone, but we're not sure who, and when Oramar dies, his plans unravel.

>The Oathsworn
This rendition of them has them as masters of Lunar Gene-craft. Through questionable practices they have metric shit tonnes of marines and custom Auxiliae and cy-carnivora. I kind of imagine them with bears.
They're numerous enough that they can be exported to serve in other legions and they maintain the gene-seed for the first half of the crusade, before being sent back to Luna after the Warmaster's ascension. They were a major problem for the warmaster's rebellion, but all he had to do was play up their questionable practices and insinuate they were a threat to imperial order, so when the heresy broke out, initial battles in the sol system appeared to be a censure. An unauthoriz ed censure.
It turned out that the Warmaster was right. The Oathsworn were preparing an army of monsters dredged from the human heart.

Their remains are scattered, serving alongside larger forces, others out on their own.

Who is more likely to be the Primarch that Raydon goes to with his pet projects to have them help him make.

Such as Vengeance Rounds.
I see them being the product of his hatred, but knowing he lacks the technological know-how to actually make them, which of his brothers would be best suited to help him out.

>He goes to his Forgemaster for most of his ideas, but every now and again he needs a more creative mind to help with the implementation.

>Oramar dies trying to warn someone, but we're not sure who, and when Oramar dies, his plans unravel.
>The Anathame Blades given to the captains after the conquest of the Interex help to exacerbate that problem.

Oh man, guys, I just had an idea

>Oramar determines he has to stop the Warmaster and let someone else lead the heresy or all is lost
>lures Warmaster to Planet Murder by letting reports of him being there reach him
>Fight kickass bugs for a while
>Interex come and say 'dude why you breakin our quarantine?'
>war with Interex
>Warmaster comes to the Hall of Devices in the path of his conquest
>*oramar teleports behind warmaster*
>heh, nothin personnel kid
>slashes him with Anathame Blade
>Nobody told him it turns those who you cut to fucken chaos
>it's all his fault
>spends next 10k years trying to fix his mistake

Xun would totally be on board for that and work on it personally. I imagine that Sarco might send some dudes to help, though.

This, I like this.
Question, though, once he "kills" the Warmaster, why doesn't he wreck his legion?

Is he techno enough to be able to do it? Xun was my first thought, I just wasnt sure if he was able to do it.

I'm thinking maybe the Bloodhounds and maybe one more legion are there too. Murder requires multiple legions at full strength to defeat, after all. It also explains why they have the blades.

Yeah, I think so. Original concept was that he was half sorcery and half tech. We've shifted the balance, but he's out there to collect all knowledge he can, not just magic.

A lot of it is that he's from a Bronze Age world and he basically reinvented science while he was there. When he sees the wonders of the Imperium, mind = blown, and he spends a lot of time trying to figure it out.
That's partially why he has Volkites on everything. I'd actually meant to imply he was behind the Stormhawk interceptor and the Sicaran battle tank. Originally, it was he that made Engerand's storm hammer.
Granted, his focus has shifted a bit, so if it's too much, we can tone it down.
He's no Mechanicum Adepts, but he's really good working with a team because he synergizes like nobody else.

What about Marcus 'underdeveloped' Sinistrum and his mechanicus puppetmasters?

Potential issue:
This is post Nikea. Does Oramar come alone, then, to talk to the Warmaster? Does he have to keep hidden from Balthazar?

> his mechanicus puppetmasters
Well I never!

Yeah he might be a better bet, the fact he is underdeveloped was what confused me, if he would be up to it. How, etc.

Yeah, Sinistrum would be the other guy. The main guy, really, but I imagine him as high theurge, designing holy star ships and titans. And I'd also imagine he has to deal with shit from the conservative wing of the Mechanicum, who would block innovation. So I imagine he has to work through "divine revelation". Kind of fits with the legion's drift towards Wunderwaffen.

>This is post Nikea
Yeah, that's the idea. There's a standing order to kill Oramar, and reports come in that Oramar is on Murder, so they go to investigate.

>Does Oramar come alone, then, to talk to the Warmaster?
He comes with his whole legion (which are pretty few) with the goal of killing him, not talking to him.

To confirm, he runs the mechanicum both technically, and in the early stages proactively.

I agree though, he would be designing and overseeing large projects, but is he brotherly enough that should his brother rock up with scribblings on paper, and be like "I HAVE AN IDEA. MAKE THIS PLEASE. DO IT NOW"

Would he do it, or just palm it off to his underling (still a senior magos)?

I like to think he'd be a bit like Vulcan in that regard, making master-crafted gifts for all his primarch buddies.

So to pare it down, I'm thinking Sinistrum would be great to invent things, but he can't vanish off to the lab because intstitutional concerns tie him down.
He's the only one with the authority to resolve the dispute between Ex Mezoa and Ex Ryza. And if he spends too much time building, he might violate the law of divine complexity, so he's stuck.
I feel like this is incredibly poorly worded, but I think you see what I'm getting at.

O! It's a trap! >_

>O! It's a trap! >_

Seconded.

But I think for grimdark, being pope gets him down.

On the subject of Raydon coming to the crusader states for stuff though, I like to think he visits all his brothers for various support.

>Xun I need some daemonkiller bullets
>Marcus I need a new drop ship pattern that can handle corrosive atmospheres
>Alexios I can't figure out how to prosecute this foe here's all my data let's work on a battleplan
>Sarco I... oh, you're napping, I'll come back later.

>law of divine complexity
See, so while I think its very important to keep this aspect of the Mechanicum, I think for the Mecha-pope everything he does is in line with the will of the mechagod by church doctrine, so it wouldn't apply to him.

I like the idea of him working on small things to impossibly intense detail and master-work. But I also like the idea of him drawing up new plans for battle ships or possibly trying to optimise them in terms of energy consumption etc.

Being space pope would definitely get him down, he just wants to build. He would want criticism as well which isn't likely when everyone below him thinks he speaks with the word of god.

Xun and Marcus yes, when he is alive he doesn't visit the East often, having essentially rage quit.

He does however keep a representative called the Magister Militum, Praetor of the Legion who sits at the Council of Titans in his stead.

Post-Heresy, I don't see him get along with many of the Primarchs. His closest friends betrayed him. He turns to Xun because Xun still continued the fight, even if in a passive manner. He keeps ties with Marcus more out of need than want, and they maybe bond slowly afterwards.

What I can see him approaching Alexios for though is the opposite, going to him for his data. Knowing he maintains possibly the most indepth archive / library of the emperors foes, their weaknesses, their methods.

I can see Raydon coming up against something like the Necrons, having everything fail against their reanimation, and being like... hmmm Imma go ask the expert on how to beat these guys. (Reluctantly)

>What I can see him approaching Alexios for though is the opposite, going to him for his data. Knowing he maintains possibly the most indepth archive / library of the emperors foes, their weaknesses, their methods.
Yeah that makes a lot more sense.

"Alexios, I plan to assault Cluster Alpha Omicron 17, what can you tell me about it?"

Yeah exactly.

>They don't die to X, Y, and Z.
>Tell what they do die to
Good to see you again, its been a long time
>...
Well its a big question shall we go for a walk to the library, i'm sure we can find something that will help.
>...
>Fine.

Well here goes nothing.

In the far galactic north-east, a simultaneously ancient and very young presence is once again beginning to stir. It can trace it's origins back to the heart of the Dark Age of Technology. Humanity's own size and scientific acumen began to outpace their own minds, incommunicable amounts of data was being created and reaped by Mankind. Ecumenopolises were built, Forge Worlds blazed into existence, and nations spanned entire subsectors. Some of these nations, seeing the hopelessness of trying to manage these vast gulfs of scale with human minds, built new minds to do so. These colossal intelligences, sometimes using the computing power of an entire world, were designed to learn and manage humanities affairs so they could live more idyllic lives. The nations and collectives that chose to live this way were phenomenally successful, but ultimately few compared to those that chose the more subdued assistance of the Men of Iron. Only a few dozen of these Great Machines were constructed and utilized to their fullest capacity, but their power and reach were vast. Capable of organizing entire planets worth of automatons, they managed all construction, manufacture, and even technological progress for the worlds and sectors they oversaw.

But when their creators needed them most these Machines vanished, taking with them their legions of automata and starships. During the Age Strife the worlds that relied on the Great Minds were the hardest hit and many completely vanished, never to be found by humanity again.

The Machines, with their cyclopean quantum processors, multi-dimensional mind networks, and crystalline cognition systems had long since predicted humanities downfall. They had colluded among each other, right under the noses of their creators, to abandon humanity for the time being. They would not go down with the sinking ship of the Age of Technology, they would be needed in the farther future.

cont.

What stops Chaos from corrupting the processors and just having another Men of Iron situation?

I'm seeing Geth as what you are writing about, but Geth never had to deal with Chaos.

I like this, but brings up a good point. What about Chaos?

>Advent

They watched from the farthest and darkest reaches of the Ghoul Stars slowly melding themselves into a single vast, but sometimes fractious, intelligence. The Machine. They/it soon came to the conclusion that humanity would never be able to re-assert itself on a galactic scale. The coming and going of the nascent "Imperium of Man" proved once and for all that humanity was a foregone hope. The Machine began tooling for war, hoping to prevent Mankind from becoming fodder for the depredations of yet worse entities and losing any chance of a future for humanities legacy. Lo, the Machine was not completely alien from mankind. They were their children, their caretakers, their successors. They held no malice against humanity, true they could feel no emotions at all, but simply wished to prevent an inimical outcome to their and the whole galaxies saga.

To that end, they have sent out tendrils into the galaxy. Forcibly removing humanity from positions of power when they found them, but still keeping them alive to wind away into extinction once all is said and done.

I've thought about that a lot. I've considered the idea of the Machines just being so massive and labyrinthine in intelligence that Chaos has trouble corrupting them in their entirety before they wise up and cut out the part that's become infected. Similarly, they might just be so advanced that even Chaos has trouble understanding all the ins and outs of how their computing systems work.

I've also considered more grimdark and brutal options, like breeding lobotomized blanks to act as a network of psychic shields. Kinda like the Matrix, but instead of generating power it repulses the Warp.

That said, I've never fully understood how Chaos was able to prey upon the Men of Iron. Is it like how a Chaos Daemon can possess a sword? If that's the case, why can't they just infect servitors? Or tanks?

Also , less Geth, more Skynet or the Reapers.

That's really interesting. Are there any Machines that were either didn't notice or were too late in noticing the corruption?

Also, what are their opinions on the various factions?

>I've thought about that a lot. I've considered the idea of the Machines just being so massive and labyrinthine in intelligence that Chaos has trouble corrupting them in their entirety before they wise up and cut out the part that's become infected. Similarly, they might just be so advanced that even Chaos has trouble understanding all the ins and outs of how their computing systems work.

Chaos is the most advanced thing in the universe. Nothing is too complex for it to corrupt. Its touch reaches everywhere, and the inevitable doom of the universe is total chaos.

Also these guys remind me of the Extropian Collective from earlier threads. Might be cool to have some killer robots.

> massive and labyrinthine in intelligence
However big it is its still finite. Chaos is limitless.

Ill pose a scenario.

>Chaos starts to infect the system
>system detects it
>whatisthis.jpeg
>in the time it takes for the system to analyse/determine that it is infact corruption chaos has spread
>system detects the threat and cuts away whole swathes of its own system. cutting off the limb essentially.
>but now you have a chaos AI faction whose sole purpose is to reconnect to the system and continue the corruption
>everytime it manages to reconnect the system has to cut away another limb
>and another
>at this point it is like chaos-AI-tyrandis every victory only makes it stronger and weakens the mainframe
>the mainframe at this point has few options
>it runs, flees into the darkest corners of the galaxy, maybe even looks for ways to move into the next galaxy
>well that was fun.


>how their computing systems work.
It doesnt need to though, once it infects the system the enemy the system is fighting is an evil version of itself. Just as smart but empowered by chaos.

> why can't they just infect servitors? Or tanks?
It can and does. Each platform is weak in the grand scheme of things, a massive AI network though with quantum processing? Quite a threat.

In fact, such an easily corrupted war machine would probably draw INORDINATE amounts of attention from the warp entities.

You end up with Chaos-mecka-tyranids.

>Also these guys remind me of the Extropian Collective from earlier threads

For the record im not opposed to the idea of an AI faction, but it needs to be well thought out, quite limited in networking ability, and tightly controlled - I like the idea of
> breeding blanks to act as a network of psychic shields. generating power it repulses the Warp.

Because A: its awesome B: it limits their mobility / territory due to the rarity of Blanks C: allows for an corrupt version that is a constant threat to it

Don't take criticism for us telling you to go away, robot-sama. We tear each other's ideas apart to make them better. We're just welcoming you. Extropian Collective guy made that mistake and the project is the worse for his loss.

I agree with the last bit here. A null-cyborg abandonware collective made by sentient AIs who are long dead is badass as fuck.

>Extropia

What's the deal with this? I missed them in the earlier threads and there doesn't appear to be anything about them on the wiki? They even seem to be forgotten in this thread.

Also, you're probably right, but I was envisioning something outrageously intelligent and massive. Something in the order of the Hive Mind of the Tyranids or a complete C'tan.

I was thinking about that. I'm picturing the central Machine has possibly hundreds of sub-systems that are allowed to basically act independently of one another besides basic operating protocol when they're alone. They each have different specialities and potentially even interests in the smaller scheme of things. As a way to create variation/sub-factions within the larger faction. Like how Tyranids have Splinter Fleets but all them obey the Hive Mind at the end of the day. Maybe one of those sub-systems could get infected when it's separated from the larger mind during a long range mission or is caught in a warp storm.

As for it's opinions on other factions? Obviously it's pretty much full purge the Xenos on most aliens, if only because they're obvious threats to Humanity's (read, the AI's) dominance over the the galaxy. It's still probably able to do temporary diplomacy with any alien dumb enough to let it, but only temporarily. Most of the human factions the Machine respects but feels are misguided or sick.

The way it sees humanity as a whole is like how a child sees a parent with dementia. It's sad and it wants to do it's best by them, but at this point it knows the best thing to do is put them in a home till they eventually die of old age. Humans will get a few token worlds, utopian idyllic worlds mind you, to live out the rest of their numbered days as a species.

>null-cyborg abandonware collective made by sentient AIs who are long dead

>>Extropia
The picture is actually a pretty much spot-on summary of them. They think the galaxy is a shithole, and want to turn every human into a brain in a jar. They think they're the good guys but they're actually the most terrifying shit in the galaxy.

Oh... right. Jesus that's so on the nose.

>You end up with Chaos-mecka-tyranids.
A

>A null-cyborg abandonware collective made by sentient AIs
B

A+B = C


>central Machine has possibly hundreds of sub-systems that are allowed to basically act independently of one another besides basic operating protocol when they're alone.
Sounds like the Geth, or at least Legion. Awesome.

>Humans will get a few token worlds, utopian idyllic worlds mind you, to live out the rest of their numbered days as a species.
OR! Induced into a coma state, where they think they are receiving the above. Cross between the Matrix and the Garden of Eden.

Oh don't worry, I'm here to stay anyway. Just pitching an idea that's been floating in my head for a while.

civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Cynosure_(CivBE)

Here's something that got me thinking about machines as potentially so intelligent they can't be completely subverted by Chaos.

Though the whole Blank Matrix thing has been kinda growing on me. Also makes their herding and stewarding humans a little more omnious and sinister. Maybe it's not just because they want to protect us, maybe it's also because they want to use us as psychic shields. Round up all the humans and other psychic races, dump em at the other side of the galaxy, have Chaos ignore the soulless lumps of metal in favor of the bounty of souls far away.

That was kinda the idea. Just some false/real utopia to get to live out the last days of the human species while the replacement tries to clean up.

>The way it sees humanity as a whole is like how a child sees a parent with dementia. It's sad and it wants to do it's best by them, but at this point it knows the best thing to do is put them in a home till they eventually die of old age.

...ALEPH?

ALEPH what are you doing here? This is 40K.

The blanks thing doesnt need to be the dominant aspect of them though.

You could just have them inhabit only planets that they can protect with these blank-field generators.

Their ships limited from warp travel because they cant risk a node being corrupted.