Pathfinder General /pfg/

Pathfinder General /pfg/

The great debate: Point buy (how many points?), array, or rolled? What's the best level to start games at in general?

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Alright guys, I want to make the best grappler, currently my character is a Tetori Monk with a buttload of feats and shit for grappling

what items, feats, classes, whatever should I look into to be the best grappler possible?

>The great debate: Point buy (how many points?), array, or rolled? What's the best level to start games at in general?
In my opinion, 25 point buy, level 3. Enough to customize on both fronts and not in danger of being shanked by hobos.

27d6, no less than 3 die per stat, nothing over 18 before racials, level 3. One reroll of the entire pool allowed before I hand over a pre-rolled array.

Aberrant aegis for free str/dex/con buffs and tentacles for grapple bonuses.

20-point buy seems like a nice, even way to kick things off. Enough to boost up the main stats without having to cripple less important ones for all but the most MAD of classes. As for levels, my experience is mostly 2-3. At that point, you have an extra hit die or two, a couple of class features, and enough money to actually buy some decent equipment. You're not out of Rusty Dagger Shanktown yet, but you have slightly better odds.

So how do manifester level increases from abilities like Psionic Knack and prestige classes work, exactly? Looking at Thrallherd, it specifies: "This essentially means that she adds the level of thrallherd to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly." which implies that power points per day and powers known are separate from manifester level. On the page about psionic classes, it states that the bonus power points from high ability score depend directly on the manifester level and nothing else. This much is clear.

However, what about maximum power level known? It doesn't say that one way or another. Is it just a function of manifester level as specified on the class table, so whatever increases your manifester level increases the maximum power level known? Do prestige classes increase it(almost certainly the intended behaviour), but not other abilities that increase your manifester level? Or is it only levels in the base class and nothing else?

Interestingly, the 3.5 wording of Thrallherd does NOT have this ambiguity: "At every level from 2nd through 9th, a thrallherd gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. "

How do I stop my tiefling catfolk alchemist from always succumbing to Charm Monster and Suggestion? He's level 8 and basically always fails his Will saves even if I've tried to shore them up.

Wayfinders use random resonance tables.

DSP psionics and akasha are allowed, nothing else 3pp is.

There's a marksman in the party and we've got basically no other casters/manifesters.

Even though I've had fun with the lewd mind control situations he's gotten into, oh my~, I'd like to maybe NOT Beastmorph/Vivisectionist pounce at friends every once in a while.

Leave

>pounce
Figurative pounce, not literal pounce. That's coming later.

25 PB, anything less and MAD characters aren't really viable. The campaign should start at least at level 3, higher is acceptable. I'd like to play a campaign that starts at a high level, since campaigns never last long enough to make it there.

>starts at high level
Eh, I prefer starting relatively low. I find level 10 tends to be a great place to start when you're going for a team of already heroic adventurers; high enough that martials aren't completely obviated yet, but unquestionably powerful.

I'm in a dillema, /pfg/., I really like the flavor and mechanics of the Witch class.

I don't want to be that guy playing a tier 1 class, because tier 1 classes break the game in half and that's a bad thing.

Why isn't there a six-level-spellcasting, witch-style flavor class out there?

I just want to learn the secrets of the universe from my familiar and hex people without being broken.

Hexcrafter magus.

What steps have you taken to shoring up your will save. Ignoring how shit your character concept and image are, what steps have you already taken that you're still falling for this shit?

>Traits for +1 will, Iron Will feat, Cloak of Resistance
>decent Wisdom, please tell me you at least have decent wisdom
>did you get any ways to reroll saves, and are you constantly getting protection from evil cast on you?

>I don't want to be that guy playing a tier 1 class, because tier 1 classes break the game in half and that's a bad thing.
Tier 1 classes break the game only if you INTENTIONALLY try to. It's really, really fucking hard to platy super powerful full caster like that.

Never make Scrolls
Never make wands
Never use metamagic rods
Don't use long range teleportation

Protection from Evil/Good/Lawful/Chaotic?

If you're that committed to not being OP, it's very possible to just decide to play a witch in a non OP way.
Maybe add some self imposed restrictions, like only two schools of magic, or there's a limit on the amount of spells you can learn outside of level ups, etc.

Alternately, look at Spheres of power.
It has some witchy things and probably has a witch archetype.

If your GM allows Spheres of Power material, you could try the spherecasting archetype of the witch class from Spheres of Power: Expanded. If you would like even greater flexibility that strains the upper boundaries of tier 3, you could also try a hedgewitch with the triple goddess archetype and either font of inspiration or spiritualism for a tradition, using one of your secrets to acquire a familiar.

Failing that, a magus (hexcrafter) can sling hexes quite well and can acquire a familiar, but that pushes you into a gish-style build.

Parasitic Twin and Clarity of Pain from Horror Adventures.

I guess? I don't know, though, like... can a GM assume a player won't be an asshole? I don't have a group; i"m hoping ot find a game thorugh here or the gamefinder threads, maybe...

I'll keep spheres in mind if I find a game!

>Traits for +1 will, Iron Will feat, Cloak of Resistance
Yep, have all of those.

>decent Wisdom, please tell me you at least have decent wisdom
It's a 12.

>did you get any ways to reroll saves, and are you constantly getting protection from evil cast on you?
Don't have any, and we don't have casters or UMDers.

Feat for familiar? Hedgehog nets you another +2 to Will.

How do these work?

Will do.

>no one taking UMD
>not even the alchemist

have you looked at the Pragmatic Activator talent for Int-based UMD?

Maybe I'll take that.

How long can I get Protection from X up and running?

trait, not talent, dangnabbit

A level 1 wand of Protection from Evil would be 1 minute duration. You could theoretically get one with a higher caster level, but it would be way more expensive.

Furry-orcs need their own splat book.And that book should also contain mechanics and such for the slave trade in Golarion.

Parasitic Twin is a discovery that lets you shunt a mental control effect to your twin, though it's three discoveries deep (as it requires that plus two vestigial arms).

Clarity of Pain lets you take an immediate action to do a small amount of damage to yourself and take a reroll for mind control effects.

Is their any point in being a switch hitter? I mean, isn't it more optimized to focus on melee or ranged?

>have spare feats
>take power attack, quickdraw
>spend the rest on archery
>???

Sounds great. Thanks, /pfg/!

If he still gets mind controlled, at least he might get another chance to be put in a dress~

Completely ass.

Kill yourself you gay nigger faggot or at the very least keep your masturbatory fantasies to yourself and your sick little buddies.

I have not the image macro to covey my disgust you bring out in me, but this one will suffice for now.

25PB. I personally am fine with level 1 play but many aren't because their character has a legitimate chance of dying due to luck and most people feel character death is an unnecessary part of the game unless it adheres to some kind of personally held social contract about appropriate levels of drama.

...

Here's a question for you, folks.

I have the opportunity to make myself into a CHArbinger instead of an INTbinger. Should I take this opportunity, or should I stick with INT?

If you're limited to core-only, archers can have problems dealing with enemies who get to melee range. Otherwise, not really.

No, tier 1 classes break the game by just existing. That's the definition of tier one.

Whoooops my edilon is just better than a fighter in every way and I can cast spells. Whooops, I have spells that erase armies and if I can in trouble I can teleport out and sleep in an alternate dimension. Oh, a force cage? Disintegration. Oh, a giant chasm, fly fly fly fly.

with the right couple traits INT is so much better than CHA it's not even funny

>8-7-2016
>This image was made 3 days ago

I like it!

I agree, 20 points gives you a pre-racial 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8, which is a solid array for most characters without going overboard. I also prefer 3rd level, since it gives you the base survivability via hit points so that you're no longer in much danger of being one-shot, but at the same time there's plenty of room to grow before the level 10+ part of the game, which few campaigns move past anyway.

Yesssssss, but Charisma is beautiful for resisting insanity, which is something the character would be good at. Also, not using those traits, and would be swapping Base 12 and Base 18 (currently 18 INT, 12 CHA, could be 18 CHA, 12 INT)

Gareth might track you down and strangle you with your own small intestine, but if you're willing to shoulder the risk, why not?

Why will Gareth murder me?

20 for full-casters/manifesters, otherwise 25.
Never start at 1st. It's not just rusty-dagger-shanktown where everyone's one good roll from dropping (and might not be able to stabilize), it's also fucking boring. So many classes get so little at level 1. 3rd is fine, 6th if you want a "high" (10+) level game that won't take 6 months to actually GET to where you want it to go full-swing.

Ah, misread, thought you said you were writing a CHAbinger

25 point buy, level 3 with appropriate wbl

It's a strict downgrade from INT because you lose out on all your skillpoints and your craft/spellcraft checks for disciplines, but if you like the idea enough even so then there's no reason not to do it.

>What is an unoptimized blaster wizard

I used to like giving people 18-16-14-12-10-8 but then a player complained about how restricting that was so I just give people 32PB.

For starts I like 5~6.

>that
>restricting

you sound like you have some pretty picky and entitled players, damn

Level 3. 25 point buy. Level 1 WBL.

Maybe they wanted to play a competent monk Maybe it was a suggestion to move to a different system

32pb is what 18-16-14-12-10-8 costs, the player complained they wanted to be decent at everything instead of having dump stats.
In the end that player did stop playing PF but the rule change stuck.

>dwarves don't have racial bonus to STR

These are some sort of faggy elf-touched dwarves.

STR doesn't help you drink in this system, user.

It helps you be a dwarf fighter though.

>dwarves are unironically better at being monks, druids, and clerics than fighters.

I don't think +2 wis is much more helpful for a monk than a fighter.

Getting started in pathfinder i was spoiled as hell

My gm always had us roll 4d6 take the 3 highest

A new gm shows up at the game shop and says "alright, high fantasy, 20 point buy. I'm feeling generous today"

That was the most painful character creation ever.

Personally I do d10 + 9 because of the difficulty of games i usually run but i've had successful characters in an "average joes" game with only 10 point buy.

Isn't wisdom the primary stat for monk abilities?

Dwarves are great at being most of the centrally trained religious classes. Clerics, Inquisitors, & warpriests. Dwarves, having a traditionalist and religious society, are good at being religious classes.

Monks & Druids, being classes that remove themselves from society often to be relatively hermit like, also fit dwarven stereotypes.

What would you think they should have instead?

+Str, +Con, -Cha?

A Wise Hardy folk makes sense for dwarves.

Yeah, but monk abilities are shit.

If you're such a big baby that 20PB makes you cringe then grow a pair.

>dwarves
>wise

Racial bonus's for
>Hatred
>Greed
>Implying most dwarves in any given stronghold aren't fighters, and dwarven defenders.

Yeah dwarves should probably be +2 str +2 con -2 cha. If anything they should probably have minus wisdom since every dwarf city that falls is pretty much because of digging too greedily and too deep.

Some people like having a set of stats, and not having to choose which to raise and lower. It's much easier to hit the random button and assign from there than it is take the time to determine which stat is the most important to your character at which value.

Did you even read my post? that was the first time i used point buy...

I also said i've had success with 10 point buy, so what the hell is your problem?

...

Any general tips for playing Inquisitor?

The monk conversation was this post.

Array. Always array. 16, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8. 25pb equivalent with no 18s.

I know exactly what I quoted but now realize it works for both.

I can sympathize with that player if I'm being honest. I don't care about the amount of points the array is worth, the only difference that makes is the power level of the game. I don't like having anything selected for me or pre-generated. I prefer rolling over point buy and I prefer when everyone is at the table and we roll together one at a time in a sort of ceremony fashion.

I always roll health too and always roll it in front of everyone. Its bit me in the ass a few times and it SUCKS getting 1-3 hp on a level up, but I'm a gambling man.

Sanctified Slayer is a really great archetype if you don't wanna deal with Judgments.

Is this what a Dragon mystery oracle's backstory should be like?

>Fuck man, you ever just think about dragons? Like holy shit, how do they fly? Why do they get so damn old? Why the whole colors thing?

>Dragons man, fuckin' weird

No. That dragon's much too small, for one thing. The scenario would require it to alter self into humanoid form.

Did you hear about how there are SPACE dragons? What do they even do in space?
Whoa

>comic has dragon rape and tits
>doesn't want to show post-birth vagina.

Fucking pansies.

Is there a stat generation method that combines rolling and point buy?

Like you roll and then you point buy afterwards.

Probably a roll with some caveats like roll again if score is 7 or lower; 19 or higher. No more than two 18s. etc.

Everyone rolls, you take the highest roll, convert it into point buy, let everyone use that point buy.

Honestly I don't see the point compared to the GM just setting the powerlevel they want.

That seems like it'd defeat the purpose of both point buy and rolling.

20 point-buy if I'm with people who know what they're doing and we're playing 3.PF with more-than-average cheese, 25 point-buy if it's PF-only and/or with people who are newer to the game or not as skilled at character-creation. Level 3 is the lowest no exceptions; it's enough to get you 2 bonus feats and three levels worth of class features to get you started (which is enough to get, for instance, Weapon Finesse + Deadly Agility or Power Attack + Furious Focus going).

>>What is an unoptimized blaster wizard
Fun

>Whoooops my edilon is just better than a fighter in every way and I can cast spells.
I mean, this is never actually true. An optimized fighter blows an optimized eidolon out of the water.

At like level 20, where the Eidolon has stopped scaling sizes, the Fighter has +7 to hit and damage from class features and a single item, and automatically crits for more damage. Dial it back to level 10 and that is in no way the case.

Alright /pfg/ I have a request, could you list for me all archetypes and classes third party or otherwise that are associated with insects, swarms, and vermin? I'm trying to make a character based around those themes and I'm not sure what class to play.

Is it worth it for a Warder to take a level in Bloodrager to get Bloodrage?

I would choose Bloodrager over Barbarian to get the Arcane Bloodline Arcana to increase concentration DCs to cast within threatened range.

enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?492385-STARFINDER-Here-s-The-List-Of-Classes-Release-Date-And-More!

>Solarian - Balance of the universe between Energy and Entropy. Embraces two sets of powers for each, using them effects the power of the other. Light and Heat, vs Gravity. Could make a Jedi with this class, mystical melee. Has a mote of stellar energy that can be used to form energy weapons or armor.

Does anyone else think the Solarian will be a hype as fuck tier 3 class?

Might be interesting. Also interesting how they basically condensed all the core classes together. Might actually be balanced alright.

>Paizo
>Hype
No.

Yes that will do nicely, thank you user.

>Hype

Man, I was hyped for the kineticist before it came out, don't do this to me.

I'm creatively bankrupt.

How do I bring a machiavellian drow sorcerer, a goblin hitman, a kindly kobold wizard, and a dwarven barbarian together into a cohesive adventuring party?

There's always hope, but I'm going to be very annoyed if nothing has been learned and my friend that wants to play the hacker is restrained from breaking campaigns over his knee purely by his goodwill while my friend who wants to play her sniper from Mass Effect gets disappointed by gunfighting being ass and fighty classes having nothing to do while the hacker's showing off out of combat, again.

>Maybe they wanted to play a competent monk
Dwarf. Str. 14, Dex. 18, Con. 14, Int. 10, Wis. 18, Cha. 6. Light on skills, but otherwise quite solid.

i know man, the world is full of messed up hypocrites.

Money. Loot. Bread. Lucre. Clams. Loot. Swag. Wonga.

Metagame. Metagaming isn't always bad, asking the players to find a reason to travel together is fine.

Well, except for the monk part.