Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Galactic Olympics Edition
Concrete Jungle Sub-Edition
We had a little fun with idea of Astartes Olympics, musical instruments, and helped an user who wanted to know which legion does blobs of Tictac marines best, I question myself on why it's so easy to anger people over mixed armor, and discussion on the culture where the Pale Nomands came from happened plus much more in the last thread Red Books Links:
sys.Veeky Forums.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.zippyshare.com%2Fv%2Fs15Jqk1t%2Ffile.html
sys.Veeky Forums.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmega.nz%2F%23!Jx1UGCTI!vMJN89z7p8tiEC7YOAj477g6RxDtJ7culVLF3q3godg
HH Book 6 - Retribution PDF:
mediafire.com/download/8aqx9j3a8erqv8d/The_Horus_Heresy_Book_6_-_Retribution.pdf or
sys.Veeky Forums.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkat.cr%2Fthe-horus-heresy-book-6-retribution-pdf-t12199249.html
HHG FAQ - pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf
Other official downloads: forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads#horusheresy
HH Rules:
Age of Darkness Army List: mediafire.com/download/f0c2pnieoijyrqk/Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List.pdf
Mechanicum Taghmata Army List: mega.nz/#!LFwTjQ7B!mF0eVOY8P1MPT0a-QSXypXo_ZfskhYynD41PrkaTbD8
30k/40k Rules: mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
30k/40k Rules and more (torrents): kat.cr/usearch/"Forge World" heresy user:epistolary/
30k Black Library: mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
Strawpoll links: strawpoll.me/10558764
www.strawpoll.me/10663447

First for the best.

>tfw it'd cost 457.14 for 13 models.
Why is HH so expensive.

Because FW has families to take care of.

hey recasters have families too

>FW contradicts about half of Angel Exterminatus. They really seems to dislike McNeil's version of the Iron Warriors and Peturbao.


You mean the non-triggered angsty version?

BL books have actually managed to improve most of the traitor primarchs. Though Horus and Curze were made worse.

You talkin shit m80?

World Eaters or Sons of Horus? Gonna pick my next legion based on buying a recast model of the primarch. I want an infantry heavy army so leaning towards World Eaters but Sons of Horus are Sons of Horus.

>I want an infantry heavy army
Death Guard?

World Eaters have Khârn, SoH have Failbaddon. You choose.

Curze being space Rorschach mixed with Apocalypse Now was much more appealing than the unstable crying completely evil mess BL has made him.

All Konrad are appealing. All Konrad are beautiful.

WE are footslogging fucks but there are better legions if you want that, personally I think WE thrive in mechanized blobs that can cover their hordes of units that shit out attacks like its bloody christmas, something like 2x Gorgons filled with 40 dudes each sounds absolutely mad. SoH are better suited for drop pod assaults.

I don't think I could do the paint scheme justice, I'm probably one of the shittiest painters on this board. and I'm not a big fan of Mortarion either. I'll do more research though.

Can footslogging World Eaters work or do you need Spartans and Land Raiders?

>BL books have actually managed to improve most of the traitor primarchs
THIS.
At the beginning I cared not about about Couldn't-conquer-his-own-world "It is Well Done" Angron, but after After De'Shea, Butcher's Nails and Lord of the Red Sands...

I hope Master of Mankind has a reeeeeaally good reason for Emps not helping Angron, something better than "Nuceria had nice tech". Fuck Nuceria, Exterminatus through chain-axes for them!

You could practice painting stuff before trying to paint your actual models, you know?

And WE is all Mechanized assault. An user said once that the list World Eaters do better than any other legion is the two-prongued mechanized assault, with optional distractions like deepstriking Leviathans, focusing on blowing up their transports while yours get your choppas right where they're needed.

Not sure if Knight user or just another self-deprecating user

The common fan-theory is that Angron's gladiator buddies were already tainted by Khorne and possibly even openly worshiped him, and that to help them would be to have had Angron fall to Khorne even faster than he did, even before the Heresy started.

What models?

it's so hard to be anonymous on this board sometimes. my own brand of self-loathing is so unique.

3 Thanatar, the Archmagos with Abeyant, and 9 Thallax.

Well, always hating yourself in each post and being insecure kinda helps recognizing you, and we are always the same 60-100 people.

It may be nice, though, people being able to identify you without having a trip code. I shall try that.

And here I thought Mechanicum would be cheapish due to being relatively few models. I was so wrong.

Do a World Eater drop assault vanguard, tons of jump packs and drop pods arriving on the first turn could be very nasty imo.

that would be pretty badass. my younger bro repainted my old 3rd edition khorne berserkers and I think they look pretty great now. chainaxes are so damn sexy. too bad they're too small to be red butchers.

>HH7 won't happen this year
>Even then, WS, BA and DA would still be missing their Primarchs and speshul units
Corrected Legion-specifics book when?

Also, you didn't include that nice question about allegiance to the Emperor? Why?

I tried out a pair of 30k lists this evening. I was largely constrained by the models I have.

Game 1:
Death Guard (The Reaping)
Praetor
Master of Signals
Tactical squad (15)
Tactical squad (10 w/ CCWs)
Tactical Support Squad (10 w/ flamers)
Heavy Support Squad (5 w/ ML) x3
Scorpius
Predator w/ HBs
Predator w/ HBs
Deathshroud (4)
Veterans (10) w/ melta and ML

About 2000 points

vs a Cult Mechanicum list:
Knight Titan (one of the FW variants, had a huge flamer)
Some sort of large robot unit, had 6 robots and several priests. I'm not sure.

I conceded in turn 3. I lost everything but the deathshroud and half of the larger tactical squad w/ the praetor.
I did 4 wounds (2 of which came back via IWND), and 2 HP to the knight.
Turns out I was playing against a 1500pt list (my opponent didn't feel like making a new list)

Game 2
Imperial Fists
Sigismund
Dorn
3 15-man tactical squads
Predator squadron (2)
Terminator squad (assault cannon only upgrade)
Rapier w/ quad gun (no special ammo, forgot to buy it)

VS
Daemonkin

Bloodthirster (sD axe version)
Daemon prince
Herald
Large Berserker squad
4 10-strong bloodletter squads
Possessed w/ rhino
Bloodcrushers (4 or 5)
Flesh Hounds
Soul Grinder
Skullcannon

I did much better, but lost in turn 5. Sigismund killed the 'Thirster in one turn of assault. Dorn killed the daemon prince, but then got killed by the soul grinder (eventually). Wiped out the bloodcrushers and berserkers, killed the herald.
Ended up with the Scorpius and Sigismund (+squad, locked in assault for most of the game). Everything else died.

All in all it was a fun night.

Oh, I had the scorpius in Game 2 as well.

Tell me about the Reaping game and how that RoW influenced your game, as it doesn't look like it's influencing your list thaaaaat much.

Wait, was the first game vs. a 40k Cult MechanicuS list or a 30k MechanicuM?

If 30k Mechanicum it wasn't legal, if 40k I think you might be talking about the Kastelan Robots with Dominus.

what performed well? what under-performed? and do you have a picture for the model you're using as Dorn? I have a pretty similar list for my Imperial Fists.

>tfw Mechanicum is expensive
>these models aren't mine
>Stygies VIII a best
>especially the totally-not-Eldaraboos who rule it
>it's a secret
>don't tell anyone
>even if in 40k the Deathwatch, and several other Forgeworlds send armies to kill you
>we still make the best tanks
>and lasguns
>i love Thanatars
>and toasters
>maybe toasted thanatars?
>extra line of greentext

Why does this post sound like the ramblings of a Mad Magos?

>Mad Magos
That redundancy right there.

True enough.

Why does that post sound like the ramblings of a Magos?

It allowed me to take 6 "heavy support" units, namely the 3 heavy weapon support squads I used as non-compulsory troops.
I played pretty passively, forming a gunline in the best cover I could find.

Turn 1
I lost 2 devastator squads (including the master of signal). Knight killed one devastator squad, robots the second. Apparently the AdMech formation lets the robots shoot at as many different units as there are priests in the squad. It also has some sort of reflection ability that can shoot back at anyone shooting at them if a 6 is rolled.

Turn 2
Knight killed a predator and 10 man tactical squad
Beep-boops killed half the veterans and several tactical marines.

Turn 3
Beep boops finished off the veterans and the second predator. Knight wiped out the devastators and the scorpius.

I now realize the flamer squad never actually got destroyed, but their S4 weapons wouldn't have been much use against the robots, while the surviving praetor/tac squad would have been shot to death before getting into assault, where they'd have been useless anyway (even w/ a power scythe and rad grenades, the praetor wouldn't have done much).
Deathshroud did nothing, I foolishly kept them back.

All in all the RoW did little. I wasn't able to move much, so the no running thing wasn't much of an issue, but the same goes for getting move through cover.
It was my first game in nearly a year, so I it was mostly user error. That, and losing most of my best shooting before they got to do anything hurt as well.

Then again, in game 2 my 10 man missile launcher squad, despite getting 9 hits, did nothing to the bloodthirster. I shit you not, but I rolled 6 1s to wound, then he saved the three wounds.

40k Cult Mechanicus.

His army was heavily converted (and beautifully so) out of Skaven Skryre stuff. The knight alone is simply amazing. And he didn't build it to advantage. The barrel of the gun was off to the side, which looks better than having it awkwardly thrust forward, but made it harder to aim.
The rat orges he used as robots all had appropriate weapons (usually skavenized), and bits of glowing (ie, well painted) warp stone on the bases and such.

Oh, I missed the x3
:^3

The reflection ability I think is inherent to the Kastelan shields, like 30k Inar Satarael's shields.

>I now realize the flamer squad never actually got destroyed, but their S4 weapons wouldn't have been much use against the robots
>the surviving praetor/tac squad would have been shot to death before getting into assault, where they'd have been useless anyway (even w/ a power scythe and rad grenades, the praetor wouldn't have done much).
I've seen some DG lists commit the mistake of bringing lots of AntiMEQ units, particularly chem-flamers, but I found a nice advice in the wiki:

No matter the toughness, everything dies to poison all the same.

Creeping Death could serve you better if you think the enemy will bring a lot of MCs (of course, you'd end up needing to tweak the HS section a little). After all, the Deathshroud, good as it is, is mainly geared towards killing anything up to T5 1W 2+ save. Anything bigger or with ID weapons, and it may struggle.

Or you could give them meltabombs, if those Kastelans don't bring power fists.

I had to proxy Dorn. I actually borrowed the model from my opponent; it was a marine from the Inquisitor game.

My missile launcher squad did horribly, but only because I misjudged the cover and rolled horribly. They did nothing in the first round of shooting, then six died to shooting and ran nearly off the board (despite Dorn's LD). They redeemed themselves later when, down to 2 models, they killed 2 out of the 3 possessed who charged them during overwatch. Then died.

The tactical squads were... okay. Fury of the legion helped kill several units, but they suffered in assault (should have bought them the extra CCW, to be honest). The +1 BS thing is amazing.
Sigismund is a monster in challenges, but he got bogged down in close combat against a Fearless enemy and struggled to do much.
I failed to get the charge with him or Dorn, but Siggy still killed a bloodthirster (largely due to it striking last, to be honest), and Dorn killed the daemon prince.

Overall the best thing Dorn did was hold off the soul grinder for several turns. Even using his +2S ability he could barely hurt the thing, and has mediocre shooting. I didn't get too much mileage out of him, but that's largely because I'm pretty shit at this game.

I had high hopes for the scorpius, but keeping it completely hidden meant I always scattered, which made it's gun almost useless (at least with the way I roll).

>Then again, in game 2 my 10 man missile launcher squad, despite getting 9 hits, did nothing to the bloodthirster. I shit you not, but I rolled 6 1s to wound, then he saved the three wounds.
Also, this.
Sorry to hear that, man. The dice gods tempt you, but do not commit heresy: it'll substract even more dignity out of your Primarch.

Whats your wishlist army, if you had a 3 grand FW voucher? I would love to run a tank-based Solar Auxilia, with Malcadors, dracosans and a Stormhammer, topped off by a thunderbolt or three.

>tfw can't give Tartaros Praetor a Hand Flamer
REEEEE

3 grand? Wtf army would I do with that much??

Probably a full army (120+) of MKII dudes I guess, topped off with a contingent of the classics - Land Raider Proteus, Deimos Rhinos and Predators, and I guess something fancy like a Stormbird.

I'm aussie, so think 2 grand US.

Rate my 2.5k list.

"Dude, Where's My Deathshroud?"

2.5k LOYALIST Death Guard Pride of the Legion list.

-HQ
Praetor, 100
+Tartaros Armor, 35
+Master-Crafted Deathshroud Manreaper, 25
+Digital Lasers, 15
+Iron Halo, 10
+Grenade Harness, 10
Total, 190

-Troops
5xDeathshroud Terminator Squad, 90 (450)
+8 Deathshroud, 320 (1,600)
+Melta Bombs, 50 (250)
Total, 460 (2,300)

Complete total, 2,490

Would you play against it? Kinda annoyed I can't give my Praetor a Hand-Flamer with Chem-munitions.

But it's FW... why wouldn't it be 3k GBP?

I'm not sure whether this is an actual list or you're just posting this because you can.

Either way I love it.

I'm just not sure how well that would do. Your army is rather slow can only hurt vehicles in assault. And now that you can only use a single melta bomb per squad (great job GW), dreadnoughts will tear you apart.
Then again, even a high rate of fire would be hard pressed to wipe out those squads (in a recent game I had a terminator make 15 of its 2+ saves). But AP 2 ranged weapons aren't exactly rare in HH.
Phospex spam will murder you (though you don't have to worry about the difficult terrain tests, thankfully). I can't recall even hearing about people taking 10 man plasma squads, so you wouldn't really have to worry about that.

>Only 1 melta bomb per unit
Brb gonna fix that.

"Dude, Where's My Deathshroud?"

2.5k LOYALIST Death Guard Pride of the Legion list.

-HQ
Praetor, 100
+Tartaros Armor, 35
+Master-Crafted Deathshroud Manreaper, 25
+Digital Lasers, 15
+Iron Halo, 10
+Grenade Harness, 10
Total, 190

-Troops
5xDeathshroud Terminator Squad, 90 (450)
+8 Deathshroud, 320 (1,600)
+Melta Bombs, 5 (25)
Total, 415 (2,100)

-Heavy Support
Grave Warden Terminator Squad, 200

Complete total, 2,290

I hate to be That Guy, but melta bombs on Deathshroud are an all-or-nothing deal. Note how it says "the squad may take," rather than "any model may take."
This is because FW made the list/rules before GW's recent FAQs.

I thought 7 was coming out this year?

Oh, you're right. Shoot. Didn't see that.

Brb gonna fix that.

"Dude, Where's My Deathshroud?" MkIII

2.5k LOYALIST Death Guard Pride of the Legion list.

-HQ
Praetor, 100
+Tartaros Armor, 35
+Master-Crafted Deathshroud Manreaper, 25
+Digital Lasers, 15
+Iron Halo, 10
+Grenade Harness, 10
Total, 190

-Troops
5xDeathshroud Terminator Squad, 90 (450)
+8 Deathshroud, 320 (1,600)
Total, 410 (2,075)

-Heavy Support
Grave Warden Terminator Squad, 200

Complete total, 2,465

user I love you.

So apparently Emma's been fired, according to /wip/. This pleases me.

Who?

The lady in GW's painting videos that isn't Duncan.

Okay, I have no opinion one way or the other.

Alright then. Glad we've settled this matter. On to other things now.

What's everyone's favorite legion specific model? Doesn't have to be your legion, though it could be both your legion and another legion's if you want.

BASED LORGAR

Palatine Blades. Objectively the best looking unit in the game.

So after few days of olympics
>all the gold medals went to a single unnamed and unknown Alpha Legion marine
>all the sliver medals went to Ultramarines
>no one knows (or cares) if Iron Hands are present.
>top contestant for gold in fencing, Lucius, got beaten by newcomer from Raven Guard
>Sevatar cheated in every competition
>Perturabo executed all of his legions competitors, despite them being good. They were not good enough
>White Scars did not show up for games, they dont care for them.

Huh. So they are. I'll go with Grave Wardens in second place, then.

Something about their power fists just looking 'right'. Y'know what I mean?

Grave Wardens possibly. Look so much better than any of the other legion-specific Terminators. If I ever were to do Death Guard proper I'd get them and Typhon.

Gravemind.

Salamander pyroclasts.
Second place, something tottaly opposite, Grawe Warden

>And now that you can only use a single melta bomb per squad
That isn't true, draft rules posted on Facebook don't count as an actual FAQ. If you force your opponents to only use one melta bomb you're cheating.

The draft FAQ clarifies the horrible original wording to mean that you can only use a single grenade per unit per phase. RAW was very poorly done but we've got a clear RAI here. Playing the draft FAQ is hardly cheating user.

Yeah, is correct. The line 'Only one grenade (of any type) can be thrown by a unit per phase' is pretty unambiguous, it was only ever rules-lawyering that led to people trying to use all the grenades in an assault.

>inb4 'a model can use such a grenade as a melee weapon' or 'clamped'

These are both there in order to explain that, and why, you only get 1 attack.

You mean the Kingdom Hearts villain Curze?

>Also, you didn't include that nice question about allegiance to the Emperor? Why?
If I was a good man and a smart man I would have done it, user. I'm neither of these things.

>the unstable crying completely evil mess BL has made him.
This one?

Which legion is the most idealistic? Bangles right?
>mfw
Still gets me.

Another day of nothing new from FW, surely they're holding back on us for some reason?

obligatory
easily the coolest and most versatile legion specific model.

It's Thursday. Their new releases are on Friday. But I agree, two weeks with no new release is unusual to say the least.

The problem is that lots of units pay for grenades per model and require the entire unit to buy them. It's pretty clear that a lot of codex writers weren't using the FAQ interpretation of the rules when they wrote those units. That goes for 30k as well - if you want melta bombs on breachers you buy them for the entire unit and are charged per model. Why would you ever design them that way instead of buying one for the sergeant (the way most units work) if you can only toss one? It makes no sense, especially because the other design (single melta bomb on one model) also exists in the same list.

Personally, I think the draft FAQs should be kept away from 30k, especially since they're not even final yet.

Show me Vigilators!

I totally agree, using one grenade per unit per phase is incredibly dumb in the face of being able to buy them on a squad basis, but this is GW we're taking about. Dumb trap options are kinda their M.O. I'm still convinced there are guys in the studio who don't know that firing Ordnance makes all your other weapons snap fire and happily fit sponsons on all of their Leman Russes.

Want to put a Leviathan into my Death Guard. Would stock claw, storm cannon and phosphex launcher work?

>I'm still convinced there are guys in the studio who don't know that firing Ordnance makes all your other weapons snap fire
At least we know FW is aware of that since rewrote the Fire Raptor missiles to be Sunder instead of Ordnance.

>GW designers in charge of knowing their own rules

This surprises you how?

>using one grenade per unit per phase is incredibly dumb

I don't know if I want mobs of guardsmen just tossing dozens of assault grenades and shit. In close combat grenades should be your alternative mode of attack vs. certain targets.

>I'm still convinced there are guys in the studio who don't know that firing Ordnance makes all your other weapons snap fire and happily fit sponsons on all of their Leman Russes.

Prior to 5e Russes firing their main guns negated ALL shooting from the tank. Then again, you also rolled on charts for both glancing and penetration, didn't have hull points and your opponent picked what weapon got removed by Weapon Destroyed. So having sponsons meant that once your main gun was gone, you wasn't an AV14 heavy bolter carrier.

I recommend, If you have the points, and money, to buy and magnetize one of each plus an extra storm cannon. Leviathan mortis dread is one of the fun strategies, especially with the phosphex discharger

>the most idealistic
That would be the Night Lords.

Melta bombs need to be 1 or 2 points per model then. One melta bomb attack isn't worth 50 points.

Melta-bombs were never used as ranged attacks and no model pays 50pts. for their single melta-bomb attack in close combat.

Iron Havocs.

How?

If you can only use one melta bomb in cc and you also have to fill the squad with melta bombs then it costs the whole amount for that one attack.

They do in HH.

If it's a squad of 10 grave wardens they Pay 50 for 1 attack

... you've got the conversation backwards. No one has ever said that you get to use more than one grenade as a shooting attack per phase. The draft FAQ extends that to apply to melee attacks as well, whereas normally any model in a unit can use a grenade to make a single close combat attack.

Breachers pay five points per model to buy melta bombs, and their default unit size is ten models - 50 points. If you go higher it only gets more expensive. If we use the draft FAQ in 30k that means that Breachers are paying a minimum of 50 points to make a single melta bomb attack in any given close combat.

Bear in mind that this is a big deal outside of paying for melta bombs. It's a huge buff to dreadnoughts and monstrous creatures if you can't use krak grenades against them. Basically, if your unit doesn't have power weapons, even a stock Castellax (or even Vorax) is going to skullfuck it.

Headhunters give me the vapors. I'm looking forward to Ravenwing.

Sorry, meant deathshroud

>If you can only use one melta bomb in cc

Which is not what I suggested when I replied to the user who thought all limits should be off on using grenades (which would let all models toss them in shooting phase as well).

>No one has ever said that you get to use more than one grenade as a shooting attack per phase.

See >"using one grenade per unit per phase is incredibly dumb"

I'm pretty sure shooting phase is a phase.

Except they have no shooting profile.

>Except they have no shooting profile.

Then why does the rulebook let you use grenades in the shooting phase?

Based FW.
>>GW designers in charge of knowing their own rules
More like GW designers in charge of fucking over whatever rules FW is using, even if they're technically the same company.
>I don't know if I want mobs of guardsmen just tossing dozens of assault grenades and shit. In close combat grenades should be your alternative mode of attack vs. certain targets.
But it was so in the original BRB without the FAQ.

I thought you were referencing the melta bomb specifically, my bad.

IF

>But it was so in the original BRB without the FAQ.

You could never throw more than one grenade per unit in the shooting phase. And technically the FAQ did nothing more than clarify what the book already said, people just assumed the wording referred to assault phase only.

Yeah, it's shit and you should be able to use one grenade per model in the assault phase, but I would not go lifting all sanctions and let 50 Levies toss 50 frag grenades at the enemy.