Pathfinder General /pfg/

I think you have literal brain damage.

This image was all the rage in early 2015.

This is a debate as old as UA. The correct solution (and something that should be done in any case) is to use fractional BAB

are there any magic items that can function/ would be able to be used as a fridge?

>fractional BAB
And saves. And not only in gestalt. But apparently fractions are too hard.

Fractional BAB isn't the default in gestalt, therefore a Cavalier 1/Psychic 19|Wizard 20 has full BAB.

Only on the same levels. You can do this:

1) Fighter 1 // Wizard 1
2) Fighter 2 // Wizard 2
3) Rogue 1 // Fighter 3
4) Wizard 3 // Rogue 2
5) PrC 1 // Wizard 4

And the like

Has anyone spent money on any of these coin companies to get loot coins to use as props/handouts? Any good alternatives for cheapskates?

So couldn't you criss-cross wizard and psychic levels to get full BAB?

No, you end up with BAB +10 on both sides. The cavalier does not grant its BAB to those psychic levels that followed

1) Cavalier 1/Wizard 1: +1 BAB
2) Wizard 2/Psychic 1: +1 BAB
3) Psychic 2/Wizard 3: +1 BAB
4) Wizard 4/Psychic 3: +1 BAB

etc.

At level 1, you are Cavalier 1/Wizard 1

Cavalier 1 gives +1 BAB, Wizard 1 gives +0 BAB, so you take the highest of the two and get +1 BAB

At level 2, you are Cavalier 1/Psychic 1/Wizard 2

Wizard 2 gives +1 BAB, Psychic 1 gives +0 BAB, so you take the highest of the two and get +1 BAB

At level 3, you are Cavalier 1/Psychic 2/Wizard 3

Wizard 3 gives +0 BAB, Psychic 2 gives +1 BAB, so you take the highest of the two and get +1 BAB

RAW yes, maybe. However, UA pioneered the Fractional BAB rules and strongly implied you should be using them if you're doing gestalt.

Don't play gestalt without fractional bab, it gets dumb.

It'd be this:

>1) Cavalier 1 / Wizard 1 (BAB 1.0 and 0.5, highest is 1.0, BAB +1)
>2) Wizard 2 / Psychic 1 (BAB 0.5 and 0.5, adds 0.5, BAB +1 total)
>3) Psychic 2 / Wizard 3 (BAB 0.5 and 0.5, adds 0.5, BAB +2 total).

See my earlier post You look at each side of the gestalt as a whole, not on a level-by-level basis. Cavalier 1/Psychic 19 has +10 BAB. Wizard has +10 BAB. So you take the best, which is +10. You get +1 over the Wizard at every odd level, and it evens back out the next, ending in +10 BAB for levels 19 and 20.

But it's not a problem if you're criss-crossing like this

Only if you're using fractional BAB

d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

>strongly implied you should be using them if you're doing gestalt.

d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm
>ctrl+f "fractional"
>only talks about fractional CRs

Stop being a fucking liar.

Okay, let me try phrasing this another way.

At level 20, a Cavalier 1/Psychic 19 has +10 BAB.

At level 20, a Wizard 20 has +10 BAB.

So, in gestalt, when you cross a Cavalier 1/Psychic 19 with a Wizard 20, you compare each side of the track, and take the best from either side. So, no, it doesn't matter if you are using fractional BAB or not. Either way, both sides still have +10 BAB, so the best of either side is +10.

You DO NOT take the best bonus increase at each level. You compare the sides as a whole, and take the best FROM THE WHOLE SIDE OF THE GESTALT TRACK.

Again, not a problem if you're criss-crossing like this

Okay, so you're just trolling. It all makes sense now.

Open your copy of UA and go to the rules for gestalt. The sidebar for Fractional BAB and saves is right in the middle of the gestalt rules, just after it talks about BAB and saves.

Stop being a fucking moron.

Wizard gets +1 BAB at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. This is one of its class features. If you are presuming that a wizard only gets 1/2 BAB per level, this is fractional BAB, another optional rule.

Pretty sure most gms would just slap you with a book for being such a little shit and purposefully trying to bend the rules like that.
I know I would tell you to cut out the bullshit.

hey all, relatively new to pf and wanting to do something completely different concept-wise to what I usually play. No 3pp.

So I want to make a lawyer. I'm looking at oracle with psychic searcher archetype, clouded vision, ancestor mystery. I'm hoping to not be completely useless in a fight, but at the same time I'd rather enable other players than be personally awesome, as my spotlight time should be mostly in town I think.

I imagine there are lots of different ways to arrive at the character I'm looking for, and I'm particularly attached to anything except race which I'd like to be human. Anybody able to give me some advice? Maybe I missed an archetype or build that would fit better - there are so many options, I'm a bit overwhelmed.

I would say do investigator instead of Oracle if you want to be a Lawyer.

Starting level?

No. For, example, you had a Cavalier 10/Psychic 10||Wizard 20, you would have +15 BAB. Because a Cavalier 10/Psychic 10 has a BAB of +15, and the Wizard has a BAB of +10, so you take the better of the two sides.

In gestalt, you sum up each side before determining which to take. It has nothing to do with the wizard having 1/2 BAB per level, or +1 at every even level. Simply, when tallying which bonus you take from the Gestalt, you do not treat a gestalt as if it were one whole. It is two tracks which then add into a whole, taking the best from either side. Not the best from both mixed together.

3

Again, you're doing fractional BAB. That's an optional rule.

Criss-cross your damn levels like

Ok, how' s this for an idea /pfg/?
You have a modular chassis which you can then fill with purchasable things.
So you'd buy the BAB, the saves and the class features.

See I've explained multiple times that it has nothing to do with fractional BAB, you're just being obtuse and dense, deliberately or not. It doesn't matter if you criss-cross your levels, because you take the better from one side of the gestalt. Criss-crossing the other side does nothing to help your BAB, because you only take ONE SIDE of the gestalt for your BAB. The better side. You don't get both side of your gestalt to your BAB.

Smarter men than us have tried. The idea of a point-buy 3.x is one of those holy grails of homebrew that sounds like a great idea but in fact is fractally awful and difficult.

It's a rite of passage, like Fighter Fixes.

You've explained multiple times that you are incorrect and don't even understand the arguments being made.

Yeah, I'm the guy talking about fractional BAB here and even I'll say that they are right by RAW. If using non-fractional BAB, staggering levels like that will get you full BAB.

This is why they put the rules for fractonal BAB right in the middle of the gestalt rules.

Consider a lawful neutral human cleric (Asmodean advocate).

d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo---cleric-archetypes/asmodean-advocate-cleric-archetype
You should be able to use your Profession (barrister) bonus in place of any Bluff or Diplomacy check.

Variant channeling (rulership) is also critical to this build:
d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/variant-channeling

You want to invest in Wisdom 16+2 and Charisma 16.

Take these alternate racial traits:
d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human
>Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
>Heart of the Fields: Humans born in rural areas are used to hard labor. They gain a racial bonus equal to half their character level to any one Craft or Profession skill, and once per day they may ignore an effect that would cause them to become fatigued or exhausted. This racial trait replaces skilled.

Take this trait:
d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/bandit
>Benefit(s) Choose one Profession skill and one ability score other than Wisdom. You add that ability score's modifier in addition to your Wisdom modifier on checks with the chosen Profession skill.
Key it to Charisma.

Take the Mentored trait as well for another +1 Profession, and use a drawback to acquire the Sacred Conduit trait for +1 channel energy DC.

Your feats should be Skill Focus (Profession [barrister]), Prodigy (Profession [barrister] as one of the skills), and Selective Channeling.

Be sure to spend 200 gp on a cracked incandescent blue ioun stone keyed to Profession (barrister).

I think RAW would be more clear if the gestalt rules actually spoke about multiclassing within the gestalt. For the most part, the rules seem to assume that you will take two, and only two, classes, and make barely a mention of taking a prestige class (only stopping to say "don't take two prestige classes at the same time".) in one small paragraph.

After reading closely, I have to back down and admit, that by RAW, it is taken level by level. Believing otherwise was my mistake. Doesn't stop it being retarded, in my opinion, though.

Your Profession (barrister) bonus should be: 3 ranks + 4 Wisdom modifier + 3 Charisma modifier + 3 class skill + 1 racial + 1 trait + 3 Skill Focus + 2 Prodigy + 1 competence = +21. You can use this in place of Bluff and Diplomacy. Be sure to ask your GM if your viper familiar's +3 Bluff applies to this.

If your GM happens to be using the rules for background skills:
d20pfsrd.com/skills/background-skills
You can take 10 on a Profession (barrister) check to "ask a special favor from a judge (such as arresting someone)."

In combat, you are a hangover cleric:
giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?243016-Hangover-Cleric-Build-amp-Handbook-PF
You can channel negative energy, exempt your allies, and then proceed to daze every enemy who fails the saving throw.

In the future, follow the "hangover cleric" build guide above, and be sure to purchase a Circlet of Persuasion to improve your Profession (barrister) via the Bandit trait.

Could you elaborate further?

What immunities should the fighter get?

If you are not attached to the Profession (barrister) skill itself, you could consider a human witch or a wizard with Focused Study, Intelligence 18+2, a parrot familiar, Skill Focus (Linguistics), and Orator:
d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/orator

Assuming you have a +1 Linguistics trait and a 150 gp cracked gold nodule ioun stone, you should have a Linguistics total of: 3 ranks + 5 Intelligence modifier + 3 class skill + 1 trait + 3 Skill Focus + 1 competence + 2 parrot familiar = +18. You should be able to use this in place of most of the social uses of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.

In combat, you are a witch or a wizard, so you should be perfectly fine debuffing enemies.

Unlike an Asmodean advocate, you will have no substitution for Diplomacy for gathering information, so you will have to rely on Perception and this spell:
d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/ears-of-the-city

Whether you are an Asmodean advocate, a witch, or a wizard, you should strongly consider employing this spell:
d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/tears-to-wine
It improves Intelligence- and Wisdom-based skill checks, so Profession (barrister) and Linguistics should both increase.

Hexcrafter on the hexenhammer should really be usable at-will rather than once per day.
What the fuck were they smoking?

oh wow, that is awesome Thank you so much.

This is perfect

Except this is literally wrong.
Sure, it would work RAW when criss-crossing, but you can't criss-cross.
You treat both sides of the gestalt as separate, so the rule you're breaking is "you can’t combine two versions of the same class".
You're a Wizard 10/Psychic 10 on one side and a Wizard 10/Psychic 9/Cav 1 on the other, but you're not allowed to have the same class on both sides, so this is invalid. Both sides would have a (multiclassed) version of a wizard.

>but you're not allowed to have the same class on both sides
[citation needed]

d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm
(This is the main source I can find online and if it's different from the UA version just say so)

>To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes, though you can’t combine two versions of the same class.)

An unarchetyped wizard and an unarchetyped wizard are both versions of the same class. They identical, so this is necessarily true.
If you're going to have wizard levels on both sides of the gestalt, you are attempting to combine two versions of the same class.

I admit there's some tiny leeway here about this not necessarily applying to higher levels or it maybe being okay if you never take two identical levels at the same time, since "A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels." can be either prescriptive or descriptive in context, but that loophole is already far beyond what anyone would say is a reasonable reading of the gestalt rules.

This doesn't stop you from criss-crossing levels at all.

Why not?

There's no restriction against alternating levels in your progression.

The restriction is on taking a class on Side B that you already took on Side A.

>To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes, though you can’t combine two versions of the same class.)

That's not what the gestalt rules say.

>Linnorm Death Curse, Tor
>anything that knocks me down has to save or permanently suck
>save DC is CHA-based

So only Bloodragers should even bother, right?

>So only Bloodragers should even bother, right?
wat

It would have been nice if you'd said so when I'd asked the first time.

Do you have a link or reference to the set you're using?

Primalist Bloodragers can take Rage Powers, and this is a Rage Power that has a CHA-based save DC.

Bloodragers are somewhat CHA-based, whereas it's a dump stat for normal Barbarians.

d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

You're trolling right
Tell me you're trolling so I can laugh and go to bed

Literally no restrictions against criss-crossing RAW.

What do you guys think of the Unchained rules for poisons and diseases? Do you like them more than the normal rules?

You can also get the legalistic curse, it's in the srd

What's the final version of hand cannons? I think daevic was the last pdf released, and it has +1 untyped attack and damage per essence.

Is it possible to play a character without having 15 different class levels or is this the norm?

What

Most characters are single-classed.

I get that, but it seems all I see on here are people with characters with multiple classes, Do single class characters simply not work for this game?

I've never played pfg but the few times I've lurked it seemed like making a character was like some kind of fucked up math equation of different classes which seems silly to me. Do actual games actually require this sort of thing?

/pfg/ is full of autists.
Most of the time, going single class is the optimal choice, and that's what happens in most games. But if you're autistic, multiclassing is more fun.

Those would probably be builds from 3.5. PF builds tend to be 3 classes towards the absolute top (and those are usually bonus fishing) with 2-3 archeypes per class

No, single classing in pathfinder is usually far easier and better in most cases. When you see convoluted messes of mukticlassing, it's usually because someone is trying to figure out how to force an otherwise mediocre build into something just as good as just a straight x. Like someone wanting to play a Dragon Disciple, instead of a straight bloodrager, for example.

This is not 3.5, all classes have actual class features all the way to level 20. Quality of some of these features varies though.
>Do actual games actually require this sort of thing?
It depends. If players agreed on high-op combat, then yes, character creation requires some number crunching.
Have a look at archetypes, that's what mostly replaced multiclassing in PF. Most cases of multiclassing is to qualify for dual-progression prestige classes, an even then you'll have two base classes with 1-5 levels, and one prestige.

This isn't 3.5. Most actual characters(not builds) are single classed and in fact, unless you know what you're doing, it's generally inadvisable to multiclass save for a few specific PrCs.

Single class can work, and Paizo does love to fellate themselves with their ocean of (90% shit) archetypes, but it will ultimately depend on what you want to do.

For example, Magus gives you a decent gish build all prepackaged with a fancy ribbon. But if you want a gish that can use a better spell list and higher level spells, you'll want to multiclass.

Is there a single decent 1pp gish prc in PF?

Is it possible to use Hunting Zephyr maneuver against someone with cut from the air and combat reflexes?

Mutants and Masterminds 3rd edition.

I just got an email from drivethrurpg telling me that Akashic Mysteries has been added to my account.

Seems rather pointless to have 20 levels when you never hit the capstone. Then again I suppose if you scaled it down to 10 levels it'd be the same way but that seems to be a D&D-esque problem in general (or simply a problem inherent in class systems)

>Veeky Forums question incoming

Can someone give me the low-down on the Holy Roman Empire and how it functioned? All I can gather is there were Elector-Counts who would legislate in the Diet and appoint a new Kaiser once the old one died, and while there were permanent Elector-Counts (and in fact, kingdoms) getting into the Diet required a certain degree of prestige and power, which states would bicker over.

Then there were Magravates, which are essentially militarized counties found on the border of the Empire, particularly in the East. The Free Cities, or Imperial Cities, are non-voting city-states that answered only to the Kaiser.

Anything I'm missing? Things I'm getting wrong? Any cool tidbits of the HRE I should incorporate into my setting's equivalent? I'm especially looking for the make-up and structure of the HRE during the 30 Years War.

PRCs generally have some sort of capstone at level 10. If your group plays past level 20 so you can use level 20 capstone, well you'll get it around level 30-35.

youtube.com/watch?v=aJOovInlk-w

Come all you young autist men
Listen to me
I'll sing you a song of the 'shit Mysteries

And its TRAP-FILLED VEIL LISTS, boys
NO PLAYTESTING, boys
When it uploads
We'll bantz together, boys

There's a race here with
Plus 4 Int and flight
Thick-headed Ssalarn, boys, publish he goes!

...

Thanks Forrest.

Then someone with vulnerability and resistance x to energy takes damage, what should I apply first?

Resistance then vulnerability. Resistance stops them from taking damage, while vulnerability only multiplies the damage they actually take.

Thanks

This isn't really anything about the political system of the HRE but it's a good screencap on the 30 Years War.

Just get banned already.

Ugh.
So it never did get fixed from the playtest version.

... all that math ignored...

Well it's not that bad. Or good. This particular calculation requires the target to be within 30ft.

This is one without chakra targeting. I THINK there might be some bugs in either, they are over a year old.

My eyes glazed over as soon as I opened that.