EDH/Commander General

Esper is love, Esper if life Edition

old RESOURCES:
>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.
mtgcommander.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.
tappedout.net
>Another resource for commander discussion; they have an entire forum dedicated to discussing decks. People often make primers, which go into detail about how they built and play their deck.
mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.
edhrec.com/
>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s color identity.
manabasecrafter.com/

CARD SEARCHING:
>Official search site. Current for all sets.
gatherer.wizards.com/
>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface
magiccards.info

Other urls found in this thread:

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/s-t-a-y-i-n-a-l-i-v-e-copy
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-08-16-gahiji-edh/
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/volrath-the-inneficient/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

im gay

we know

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/s-t-a-y-i-n-a-l-i-v-e-copy

That's what I've got so far for the 'updated' version. I've still got ~11 slots to go; I think I should use those slots for big token makers (Armada Wurm, Advent of the Wurm, etc) and token support (mostly Populate cards like Vitu Ghazi Guildmage, Growing Ranks, Rootborn Defenses)

Thoughts?

Has anyone made proxies with non-foils? I want to make some tokens but I don't know how well the ink will hold if I print a new card on a blank.

It was very convinient. But that wasn't its intent. Tuck spells were costed with the notion that it is worse than exile. Hallowed Burial being 5, Terminus being 6 and Final Judgement being 6.

The way it interacted with commander was simply not considered when the cards that behaved that way were created.

Look, I hate those commanders too, but hate the commander. Don't hate the concept of having a commander that is reliably cast.

After all, you could theoretically play commander where if the commander can't go BACK to the command zone and that would encourage even more creative deckbuilding.

If you're printing onto a blank card, it's no longer a proxy, it's a counterfeit.

Printing custom tokens is even tournament legal m8. I just want to make some cool tokens.

He's making tokens. There are many tokens in the game that have never been printed so they probably aren't anything close to counterfeit. Also tokens aren't legal game pieces soooo. Made me reply, so you win I guess

Hallowed Burial wasn't just a Commander thing, it was also printed in a set full of Persist and right before the block with Unearth.

They printed cards IN COMMANDER PRODUCTS for tucking, like Hinder. Oblation was a format all-star since pretty much day one. Don't bullshit me with "nurr it was never intended" because if it was never intended to be 'worse than exile' they would have 'fixed' it years ago. What it is is Sheldon decided that punishing decks that fall apart without their Commanders was 'bad'.

A counterfeit is something meant to pass as real

I'm pretty sure if it says PROXY-NOT FOR SALE somewhere on it, you'll be fine.
Speaking of tokens though, does anybody have any cool tokens they can share?

Hey,

I'm making a Nicol Bolas deck.

What are some staples that are an absolute must go in?

>Tokens
DISREGARD MY STUPIDITY, legitimately missed that

Yes and no. Wizards cracked down on people doing the "custom art foil 'proxy' " things on eBay even when they had "THIS IS NOT A REAL CARD THIS IS JUST FOR FUN THIS IS NOT TOURNAMENT LEGAL" all over them, because they have to crack down on anyone abusing their IP. Though that was mostly people 'abusing' it for a profit, so I guess technically even printing 'proxies' for yourself wouldn't be illegal; it's in poor taste to me, but diff'rent strokes.

Gem of Becoming.

That's because they were selling them. No one is stopping you from using proxies on kitchen table.

If cards like Terminus were still around people wouldn't cry about cards like Derevi, Narset or Oloro as much and we also wouldn't have these stupid discussion about how retarded the rule change was in the first place.
I have to agree with this guy

Yes, correct, Hallowed Burial was a way to "exile" without exiling.

As for Spell Crumple and Oblation, yeah, WOTC was retarded and didn't fix the loophole. They are also the people who printed BS like Derevi.

I don't get the reasoning for this. The best way to make a deck that can function without a commander is build a deck that doesn't use a commander. Which isn't the point of the format.

The balancing factor was supposed to be commander tax. It was always supposed to be commander tax.

Well yeah, playing any kind of voltron deck with tuck rules is pretty cancerous unless you run million tutors.

>Yeah, WOTC was retarded and didn't fix the loophole
ITS NOT A FUCKING LOOPHOLE. Wizards of the Coast is not in charge of the rules for Commander, the Rules Committee is. They're the ones who changed Rule 4, they're the ones who gave the ruling on DFCs and updated the color identity rules to make Memnarch and Bosh legal Commanders, they're the ones who WROTE THE FUCKING RULES about tucking in the first place.

It wasn't a 'loophole'. It wasn't something that WOTC forced and that the RC shook their fists at for years before correcting, it was in the game on purpose. If your deck literally cannot function without your Commander it's a shitty fucking deck. A deck that doesn't use the Commander at all is against the spirit of the format, I agree, but building a deck that cannot f unction if your Commander gets tucked and then screeching about that being a "loophole" makes about as much sense as building a combo that falls apart if one of the pieces is destroyed and then demanding they fix the "loophole" that artifacts can be fucking destroyed. It's not a loophole, it's the rules.

Why wouldn't we complain about Oloro?

If your Voltron deck doesn't have secondary beaters to slap Swords and Auras onto, then it's a shitty deck.

I 100% stand by my statement of "if your deck cannot function without the Commander, it is a poorly constructed deck".

Who is the best "You're under Arrest" Commander?

because if you opponent decides to cast him you get rid of him for a turn at least.
the best way not to complain about Oloro is to become decent in magic, a game that has so many alternate win cons that the decks relying on damage aren't usually very good

Arrest all the rocks, arrest all the tokens, never let them be free.

Best jund commander?

Then again, why not just play highlander? I do not understand, you're complaining about the main point of the whole format, building around a single card. If you're that upset about Derevi don't play the format, play one without him. It's really that fucking simple.

You can build around a card without your deck being rendered unplayable without it.

I can build a deck that's obviously much better with a Doubling Season on the board, but I'm not gonna throw my cards across the room and scream "LOOPHOLES" when someone destroys it. If my Token deck doesn't work without Doubling Season, IT IS A SHITTY DECK.

I have decks built around my Commander. They work better with the Commander. I prefer HAVING my Commander to not having it, but if my Commander gets tucked, or hit with a Nevermore, the deck doesn't instantly fall apart. It's worse off, sure, but it's still playable, because it's not a poorly made deck. If your deck requires you to always have access to one specific card for it to even function, then you've badly built your deck, and the r ules of the game shouldn't be warped to coddle your terrible decisions.

Look, why are you acting like this? I never relied on my commander. It didn't matter. I played Jenara and Bant Charmed away so many Kaalias and Terminus'd so many Animars. And if someone did that to my commander, I'd shrug, because who gives a shit about Jenara?

I loved tuck. It was great that rules committee let it slide despite clearly working against the central premise of the command zone. And yes, since then WOTC took advantage of that and created commanders whose balancing factor was the existence of the rule. WOTC also abused the fuck out of the central premise of the command zone with Derevi and shit like Marath, because they figured they were being clever and didn't care that it would fuck up the format.

Whatever. You can play with tuck. Hell, I'll unsleeve my decks right now and replace my Dissipates and Void Shatter with Hinder and Spell Crumple. And I'll be happy to tuck again. But I KNOW that I am fucking a person for daring to want to have a commander.

>let it slide
THEY DIDN'T FUCKING LET IT SLIDE

It wasn't some fucking loophole they were unaware of, it wasn't some egregious offense to the soul of the game that they fought valiantly against WotC to remove, it wasn't some 'necessary evil' they begrudgingly tolerated. They. Wrote. The. Fucking. Rules. That. Allowed. It. In. The. First. Fucking. Place.

Most decks do function without a commander. Most decks can function entirely without a commander.

If your reasoning is, well, a deck should be able to play without a commander, why have the optional replacement effect at all? You still get to build around it as it is essentially an 8 card in every opening hand.

Prossh, not even a challange.

Let it slide means they didn't fix something. Have you even heard of the expression?

They could've fixed it, but they decided it wasn't important. Then they decided it was.

Whatever, you can play with tuck. I don't care. I just can't believe you don't understand.

Apples and oranges. Doubling Season can't be used as a commander but if it was a legendary creature card and you built a deck around it, it would be entirely viable because that's what the fucking format is, COMMANDER. Not fucking highlander you cockgobbling cunt. I don't even play decks that are completely reliant on commanders to win but it should be a viable strategy seeing what the fucking format is. Use some fucking common sense.

the guy from last thread got me interested in a Gahiji pillowfort/token deck, please gib advice

it's essentially a budget deck, trying not use cards 10$ and up if possible

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-08-16-gahiji-edh/

>They could've fixed
>fixed
you can only fix what's broken and tuck wasn't. they changed the rules because they didn't like it not because it was necessary.
didn't they even argue they did it to reduce tutor usage? sometimes I ask myself if the rc even plays commander themselves.

I don't disagree that decks should ideally be built with their Commander in mind; all other things being equal, I'm more likely to enjoy/be impressed by/compliment a deck that makes use of the Commander than one that's only playing it for the colors.

Having access to your Commander to cast on curve is part of the format, yes. Having it essentially 'always' available is part of the format, yes. But sometimes the tax isn't enough to keep one at bay. It doesn't stop Derevi at all, and any green deck can ramp so much that killing the Commander four or five times barely impacts them. That's why Tuck was a thing in the first place- it was a way to answer a Commander for a longer time than just killing it. Not "forever" because they could still draw it, or mill it to the Command zone, or tutor for it, but it made it a little harder for them. I'd say tuck is less like "super exile" and more like "Somewhere between the graveyard and exile"; it's not super easy to get it back, but it's very much possible, and that possibility gets easier for certain colors, or if you put in enablers for it.

I think a deck should at least FUNCTION without a Commander. It should ideally work best WITH the Commander, but if your response to "Meddling Mage naming your Commander" is to scoop, then you need to rethink your deck.

I don't play with Tuck. I like how you just keep insisting I do like that instantly makes you better or more right than me.

For years, it was there on fucking purpose. They didn't "fix" it for the same reason they haven't "fixed" that you only draw one card a turn. They could have CHANGED it, yes, but they didn't because they didn't think it necessary. They changed their minds for one reason or another, and I personally think their reasoning was fucking stupid.

You're simply wrong here

When they wrote the rules, they did not have tuck in mind, but when tuck came up, they were okay with it, until they weren't

it was never not viable when tuck was around, it was just less viable and you had to consider your commander getting tucked so you had to run protection against that kinda thing and it's easy af to protect your commander from tuck.

>can't be used as a commander
I'm not saying it is. But I can easily build a deck "around" Doubling Season. I'm not going to throw a fucking diaper-baby tantrum when someone tags it with a Disenchant, because if your deck is so wholly reliant on one card that you just instantly scoop to it being answered, whether because your deck cannot function or due to some kind of autistic "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT!" rage about someone daring to interfere with your gameplay, then you should not be playing Magic, you should be playing Minecraft where you can go build your perfect fucking pretend castle without anyone else mucking it up.

>they did not have tuck in mind
That must be why they specifically made the replacement effect "graveyard or exile" instead of "anywhere"! I'm sure that the Rules Committee, one member of whom is a former Level Fucking Five judge, just 'forgot' that cards like Oblation exist.

Why have command zone in the first place if there's one effect that bypasses it? Do you understand how stupid this is? Why not just have every removal work normally on generals?

Exactly! That's part of my point on the 'shittily built' deck. If your deck NEEDS your Commander to function, you just need to take into consideration that it can be answered with tuck spells, so you need to think about that when building and playing. You'd run maybe more Greaves type things, or have to be careful about playing it into 1UU open in case it was Hinder or Spell Crumple.

Just throwing a fit and insisting that they 'fix' tuck is like refusing to put in any kind of wrath spells, then bitching when you get beaten by token swarms and screaming that there should be a limit of 10 creatures per player. You're asking them to warp the rules to accommodate your shitty choices.

Dragon Tempest because fuck that guy in particular.
Scourge of Valkas + Rite of Replication because you are in colors for it.

M8 when the rules of the game change, that's different from somebody complaining autistically that people shouldn't do perfectly legal things

Idk why you're pushing this false equivalence

Also you're misinformed, when they made commander, they most certainly did not think "oh we better make sure they still have a way to permanently get rid of the commander, they can use tuck effects" they just did not consider tuck effects when writing the commander replacement rule

You're right that they let it be when it came to their attention, they we're fine with tuck existing, but it was indeed a loophole in the sense that they did not consider it when writing the rules, and since tuck has its own mtg rules, all they had to do was change nothing and let he cards do what they do

As a reaction to your terminus i will:

>sac my commander in ashnod's altar
>bounce my commander with crystal shard
>cast flickerwisp targetting my commander
>Counterspell

I really don't see what the RC's problem with tuck was.

Because the replacement effect applied to the most common removal. Tuck existed, but it was largely in blue and white, and even then there weren't a ton of effects. Before WotC took over and started making Commander products that were EXPLICITLY for Commander (as opposed to the stuff they made with Commander in mind 'unofficially' for years before that), there weren't a ton of them; Oblation, Hinder, Bant Charm, Hallowed Burial, etc. They existed, and they were good answers for problem Commanders, but it wasn't necessarily something you could rely on. Just like "exile target enchantment" stuff EXISTS, and is good for fucking up Gods, but it's not so plentiful that you can say "WELL WHY EVEN MAKE THEM FUCKING INDESTRUCTIBLE".

>Tuck effects permanently answer Commanders
What is drawing a card
what is tutoring
What is milling

Tuck has never 'permanently' answered Commanders. It just answers them for potentially longer than one or two turns the way a Doom Blade does.

It's not a loophole. If I write a fucking rule that says "People named Terry start with 50 life", it is not a loophole that people with Dennis do not start with 50 life. I wrote the fucking rules. I know what they do and what they do not do. It's not some angle-shooting "WELL TEKNIKULLYYYYYYYYY" rules-lawyering asshole shit, it's how I fucking wrote them.

A loophole is something like the fact that Licids technically didn't work for about 6 years, but the Rules Manager for Magic said "They don't actually work by the RAW, but they work."

This is not that.

There's many cards with tuck effects, that makes no sense whatsoever. It's irrelevant in what colors it is available, exile effects are largely a white thing, how come that's fine?

Also a pro tip when arguing on the Internet: capitalizing random words doesn't give them any extra meaning, just makes you look like a colossal autist.

1) We want to engender as positive an experience as we can for players. Nothing runs the feel-bads worse than having your commander unavailable to you for the whole game.

2) The presence of tuck encourages players to play more tutors so that in case their commander gets sent to the library, they can get it back—exactly the opposite of what we want (namely, discouraging the over-representation of tutors).

3) While we are keenly aware that tuck is a great weapon against problematic commanders, the tools to do so are available only in blue and white, potentially forcing players into feeling like they need to play those colors in order to survive. We prefer as diverse a field as possible.

4) It clears up some corner case rules awkwardness, mostly dealing with knowing the commander’s locationin the library (since highly unlikely to actually end up there).

Those are the listed reasons for getting rid of Tuck

note that no-fucking-where in there is "It was a loophole we wanted to close" or "we never anticipated people would use it".

>What is milling
>What is drawing a card

You serious with this?

>what is tutoring

Yeah seems like a good idea to either trust a random chance or get one of the 3 or so tutor effects in the worse colors.

Probably my second favorite Commander. Dragons an Reanimation inside all five colors is GODLIKE as long as you aren't mana screwed.

>There's many cards with tuck effects, that makes no sense whatsoever.
There's barely 20-something. Hallowed Burial, Hinder, Spell Crumple, Bant Charm, Oblation, Chaos Warp, Spin Into Myth, Proteus Staff, Warp World, Condemn, Memory Lapse, Gomazoa, Unexpectedly Absent, Terminus, Oust. There's a few more if you include ones that can only hit artifacts/enchantments/noncreatures, but those aren't as 'universal' of an answer. And some of these are weak tuck, like Unexpectedly Absent and Oust, since they don't "shuffle in" without help.

By comparison, there are 45 cards that contain the exact phrase "Destroy target creature.". And that's just spot removal. That's not factoring in board wipes, or things that hit more than one target, or things that exile.

There's less target exile spells than tucks. Again, why is that mechanic fine? By your logic it shouldn't be because of its scarcity.

By your logic, cards going to the graveyard are gone forever because what are the odds I'm going to draw one of my reanimation spells?

Tuck answers cards for a good while. That's intentional. It's not a permanent answer. It's unlikely, but possible, that you can draw the card or mill it and then use that to put it in the Command Zone. If your deck is vulnerable to tuck, it's also a really good idea to put tutor effects into your deck to help combat that. I won't lie that green and black have a better suite of cards for that, but even if you're playing U/W you have access to colorless tutor effects, and if your deck needs the Commander that badly, maybe you should think about including those.

I don't throw a screaming fit when someone hits my commander with a Doom Blade and then talk about how unfair it is because my mono-red deck is weak to removal, all I have are some artifacts, and maybe I won't even draw those, it's so unfair that you can stop my whole deck with just a 2 mana spell. I don't expect them to write in a rule that all Commanders have Hexproof. I work around the game as it is. if my deck needs my Commander to stay alive, and I expect it to see a lot of spot removal, i'll run all the protections I can, even if those aren't easy to get in my colors.

But yeah nah, it does make more sense to just hold my breath until the RC makes all Commanders have Hexproof and Indestructible inherently, then insist the game is healthier when I can always rely on my Commander rather than actually learning how to build a fucking deck.

I recently disassembled mine to build Kaalia. Scion was fun but I needed a change. But I'll build another one some time and when I do I'll go really big.

>why is that mechanic fine?
What, tuck? It's fine for all the reasons I've said already.

If you mean exile, it's fine because against anything that's not a Commander, it's intended to be a more "permanent" answer than just destroying, because ESPECIALLY in Commander the graveyard can really feel more like a second hand.

ITT babies complaining that they cant tuck commanders. Maybe take up a noble cause and complain about sol ring instead. Fucking so what if you can't tuck anymore. If you seriously can't win because of someones commander them maybe your deck is shit or your playgroup is full of faggot ass spikes. Literally any deck can beat any other deck if you're not autistic when piloting it.

>Esper is love, Esper if life Edition

The best part of this statement is that Red is love and Green is life. Esper is by definition neither of those things.

Kaalia is fun, but I've heard of a lot of people playing it. It doesn't sound as fun as it used to be now that most of the strats have been figured out, but I can't say I wouldn't want to try piloting one.

What are your thoughts on pic related. I know its high costed and can easily die to removal, but you'd be surprised how often it keeps me alive.

>Lavinia + flicker effects + both Thalias + Augustin
Bueno.

I like it. I tend to use it as fodder so that my opponents will use their kill spells on that rather than stuff I actually need

Commander is the perfect format for Blazing Archon and I think it should be considered a pillowfort staple, to say nothing of its general playability in White decks. I approve.

But tuck is a permanent answer if you're not running tutor. There are cards that can get your general out of exile as well, compared to how scarce actual cards that permanently exile something when they resolve (like swords or path) I think it would be fair that it would be a permanent answer to a commander. After all every color has some kind of way to deal with it by either bouncing, counter spelling, giving evasion or anything like that.

I just really can't see the difference. To me the format is about your general and being able to have it on demand.

Anyone got some of them secret deck tecks for Geist tron?

I'm not complaining about not being able to tuck. I've also not once used the argument that "I can't win because of someone's commander".

I accept that the rules are as they are. I just think the reasons for getting rid of tuck were stupid, and that certain decks do not really get hindered very much by the Commander Tax, and they will eventually run you dry of spot removal long before they run dry of mana. I also think that the logic of "I should always be able to have access to my Commander at all times forever and nobody should be able to disrupt that at all" is stupid.

I honestly just took my best angels, demons and dragons, added some haste enablers, stuff that gives my creatures double strike and removal/board wipes and voila it was ready, though I'll have to do a lot tweaking it doesn't quite work as planned yet.
it's still fun though, dumping demons/dragons/angels for free is always fun.

One of the things you'll notice there is that all three of the Commanders you named are in colors with the most access to tuck effects themselves. They changed the tuck rule to try to curtail some of the power of those colors themselves. It may have been a misdiagnosis, but they were trying to reign in Blue and White just a bit.

>By your logic, cards going to the graveyard are gone forever because what are the odds I'm going to draw one of my reanimation spells?

Where did I imply anything of the sort?

>Tuck answers cards for a good while. That's intentional.

Well it obviously wasn't intentional because they changed the rule.

Rest of your autistic rambling isn't even worth responding to. This has nothing to do with deckbuilding skills and all to do with what the format is meant to be.

Do you understand why things like Prime Time are banned in EDH? If you do there shouldn't even be an argument here.

Just finished a Volrath deck. It's pretty barebones right now.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Sounds like Mardu Good Shit. I like this.

Post a list.

No, it's not. It is not permanent by definition because you can get the card back. You can get it back by doing fucking nothing except drawing for the turn. It's not terribly LIKELY, but it is entirely possible. Also, "tuck is a permanent answer if you're not running tutor" is even stupider than saying "Doom Blade is a permanent answer if you're not running any way of getting cards back from the graveyard". It's technically accurate, but what reason do you have for not running a way to recover from a Doom Blade if one single creature is that important to your deck's function? Just put in a fucking Ring of Three WIshes.

Also, there are exactly two fucking cards that can get something out of Exile; one of them is green and one is white. I can think of five colorless cards off hand that can tutor for a tucked Commander.

There are cards that can prevent your commander from being exiled, that's an answer all the same. I see no issue here.

How's this shit still legal?
it shut's down token decks completely, even with my Eldrazi monument out I can't do anything to keep this from wiping my board.
One card that shuts down an entire strategie shouldn't be allowed.
Sheldon pls ban

If your deck depends on one single card so heavily that it cannot function without that card, your deck is poorly built because it has a very obvious weakpoint.

Your deck is even more poorly built if, knowing this weakness, you refuse to put in any way to deal with your lynchpin being answered, despite many such protections existing.

Primeval Titan is banned in EDH largely because of the same reason Kokusho originally was; the game of Commander immediately ended when it hit the board, and a game of "who can Clone/Reanimate/Steal the Primeval Titan the most for value" began.

Because it can be easily killed.
If it's their commander, then you let it slide because you pity them for playing Monowhite.

Cards like Asceticism and Lightning Greaves?

Cards that also shut down all targeted tuck spells, leaving you with like three board wipes and two counterspells?

Have you tried not making 1/1s?

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/volrath-the-inneficient/


I should clarify and say it's been in the works for a few weeks and I just finished today.

But I shouldn't have to kill it. Why should I have to put removal in my deck to stop your bullshit cards? My deck shouldn't have to run answers to your cards, my deck should just function as it is.

Oh, you're being facetious.
Have you tried taking the cock out of your mouth?

Babby's first strawman.

I'm not being facetious, I'm repeating your exact argument back to you.

Why should I have to run removal (tutors) to answer your Elesh Norn (tuck spells)? It's unfair that your Elesh Norn (tuck spells) can so efficiently stop my token strategies (Commander-centric strategies). I mean, I could run removal (tutors), or build my deck with Anthem effects (non-Commander-centric strategies), but I don't want to do that. I should just be able to play my deck exactly how it is without your stupid loophole stopping it.

Yeah, the five best cards.

It makes sense to me. Not sure there's much I can add.

sorry but it's not my fault the majority of token engines make 1/1s, I didn't make these cards after all

>Because it can be easily killed.
so? once it hits the field my board is fucking gone. this is a fucking loophole an oversight by wotc and the rc and to kill it I need creature removal, which is not very accessible in green (my favorite color btw) and fight effects from a token deck won't kill Elesh Norn.

>if you opponent decides to cast him
>Oloro

>I'm repeating your exact argument back to you

Except I wasn't part of that argument, you twat.

You're having an autistic fit because the rules were changed and you're upset because someone abuses the rules and plays a deck that beats you. Have you considered countering his deck instead? Or is the Derevi player too unfair for our little babby?

Play Anthems then.

Help me choose from the following decks to build next, keeping in mind that as an aggro player I'm trying to build something new and fun:

>Jeleva spellslinger cantrips featuring sire of insanity and related hand control bullshit, maybe zombie/wizard tribal?
>Derevi control focusing on tokens and abusing his ability with winter orb
>Niv-Mizzet infinite artifact combo

I do. Eldrazi monument, Gaea's anthem etc. but it's very unlikely I'll draw them in my 99 card deck.
also my opponent can just remove them with little to no effort anway so what's the point?
elesh norn is stupid and overpowered just ban that shit. there's literally no reason not to it's just a single card

Fucking this. I can't stand people in these threads bitching about stupid shit like that. It's always the same few points too.

>Waahh we can't tuck commanders anymore
Commanders like Narset, Prossh, Derevi and Oloro are obnoxious as hell, sure. But there's no such thing as a guaranteed win, or a commander that assures victory. Every deck/strategy has a weakness, you just have to figure it out.

>Reanimator decks are bullshit
Every single color has direct or indirect grave hate. Artifacts have it in spades, which any deck can use. As someone who plays reanimator, I can say firsthand the strategy is paper thin.

>Commander damage is unfair!
t. Captain Pillowfort and his sidekick Durdle McLifegain

It essentially boils down to "I shouldn't ever have to alter my play style in any way. People should power down rather than me trying to get better at the game."

Yep, global -2/-2s are an awful thing and are far too powerful in EDH.

A thousand times Jeleva.

>Autistic
What about my argument is 'autistic'?

>because the rules were changed
My complaint is more about the reasons for the rules change, actually. I accept the changed rules, I just think the logic behind it was stupid at best.

>and you're upset because someone abuses the rules and plays a deck that beats you
Never said my problem is that I'm losing. If anything, a few of my decks got better once tuck went away. Fun fact: I can dislike a change in the game on principle, rather than because it causes me to lose. I dislike the tuck changes because I think it rewards and encourages poor deckbuilding, not because it makes me lose games. Cool ad hominem though!

or even better just change the rules so creatures don't die when they get -x -x
that wouldn't just help token decks but also indestructible creatures.
So we do a rule change for elesh norn so we don't have to ban her but my reanimator deck could use some help by abnning this thing
I literally can't do anything against it, after all it has flash and can just be cast in reaction to my reanimation spell

Sounds good to me, but why? I just bought one today, so I don't have all the precon parts. What are some fun things I can do in grixis?

So in less argumentative news, here's my first run at a "finished" 99 for my rework on Trostani.

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/s-t-a-y-i-n-a-l-i-v-e-copy

Any help is appreciated!