/srg/ - Shadowrun General

Spike babies refers to any metatype born and expressed before 2011, but most elves and dwarves were born as their metatypes. So I think it may be possible, just unlikely because you'd probably have to have a spike baby parent and also be born before 2011, which gives you a really small window of time if we're not counting immortals.

Also, goblinzation's horror wass two fold, because one it's a really, really drastic change and two, orks and trolls smell bad (to aggressively bad) to non-goblin people. So imagine the guy next to you, metaphorically, became huge, was panicking, put on a few hundred pounds of muscle, and started to smell like he'd worked for that muscle all day for a few weeks.

>most elves and dwarves were born as their metatypes
100% were. Elves and dwarves are always born as elves/dwarves. They never get born human and then become elves/dwarves later.

ehh, I'd personally would roll those two into "Drastic Change of Appearance"
What I rather think is the second (which is also said in the books) Is that the Goblinization happened after VITAS-I and so people were fucking terrified of a "Goblinization Plague" rolling around, which is why many Trolls and Orks and their families were imprisoned. The rest thought they were Patient 0 for it. Only after VITAS-II hit did they see that it wasn't a plague

The exception to this are Immortal elves which were living as humans in the 5th World and transformed back into elves once the 6th World began

Thinking up a 1-shot for a local RPG Convention at the end of the year, and I've got it down to two possible missions, both with pre-made characters, and tearing a lot of the extraneous shit out of the system. Would appreciate thoughts. Going to be 4e, because fuck 5e. Likely no Hacking.

1.
Runners sent to recover Artifact from Antarctic research station, fight/stealth your way in, survive a manastorm, then escape snowboarding down the mountainside, chased by wild Spirits and vengeful Corp Goons.

2.
Runners sent to extract Awakened Researcher from an Australian Outback research station attacked by Biker Gangs. Get her back from the Gangers (who took a liking to her), then help her get her research from the site (it's worth millions). Then escape, as the Gangers and the Corps come to try and take their shit back SURPRISE, BREAKNECK CAR CHASE THROUGH A MANASTORM!

Personally, I'd prefer doing 2. Put some hacking in, it's not Shadowrun without a bit of cyberspace (maybe they need to get past some ICE to extract the research). If you would play 5e like a sensible person you could more easily integrate hacking into everything else in a tight schedule

I'd rather not explain even 5e hacking to a new player, because that's who everyone will be, new players.

Is there a list or index of where I can find grunts and creatures for 4e?

I'd avoid both.

Shut up I like action movies.

And I like spy thrillers.

Basic Grunts are in the CRB (Chapter "Friends and Foes"). Additional Contacts are in "Contacts and Adventures" and "Artifacts Unbound" (At the end)
Critters are in the CRB (same chapter), Parazoology and Running Wild

Had a technocat as a pet once.

Nothing interesting happened in that game, though.

Has anyone ever done a game set in the early days of the setting, like when magic was first coming back and VITAS was still ongoing?

>Armor isn't common place and/or it's shitty
>No magic
>No augs and/or shitty augs
>No Matrix

Man that would really give you perspective on how fucked things become in mainline SR if you took your players through that first to get used to the combat.

>No augs and/or shitty augs
The hell are you talking about? We've had great augs since the late 70s.

Can't stop won't stop

Australia's finest weapon

>Corps moving back in to re-industrialize our city would probably meet some sort of resistance from a bunch of different green groups.
Ecoterrorists, because the peaceful stuff was ignored or shot down. Sometimes literally.

Remember, America and the corporate sixth world in general is still a shithole. They've just cleaned it up enough that most shitholes don't leak past the borders into someone else's shithole. Toxic waste dumps under playgrounds are common enough to be examples. Soy is a staple because crops survive and are cheap, not for price alone. Unfiltered LA air is enough to kill in a matter of hours without protection. Et cetera.

And that's the kind of SR I don't like playing.

>what is UGE?
>what are spike babies?

>UGE
>spike babies
People born as elves/dwarves in both cases. People don't transform into elves/dwarves - they're either one at birth, or they're never one at all.

I want to run something in a Desert that isn't Desert wars. Something like Afghanistan or something.

Any hints? All I can think of is Africa.

Dried out Kaspian sea.
>a vast salt desert
>in a middle of a regular desert
>there's also mountains and a sea nearby
>also ruskies

I'm not an expert in lore so it might be null now, but you could always do some looking up on the great basin desert in the states.

S-K decides that this time it will surely be different and invades the Graveyard of Empires, Afghanistan, for some object or objects of value. Lost cities? Ancient Relics? All that sweet, sweet opium? Arresting a group that hacked S-K's database and posted hurtful comments about Lofwyr's mom? Who knows, but the Mujahideen are riding again to take them down. And of course every corp above A wants in on the proxy war supplying the resistance.

Maybe a twist that the reason nobody can seem to subjugate these people is there's been a minor dragon/spirit protecting it's turf?

Shit man I dunno if Afghanistan even exists anymore in the canon, but I'm not the best at ideas anyway.

That actually sounds really fun. Massive guerilla war against S-K in Afghanistan? Sounds great.

>but the Mujahideen are riding again to take them down
But we all know they can't win without the help of the CIA! Where will they get the Stinger missiles?

I'm sure your very friendly, local Mr. Smith who speaks with an American accent and sure seems to use a lot of ARES brand devices will be happy to help! Not to mention Mr. Tanaka, Mr. Huang, Mr. Leibowitz, Kobayashi-san, and Señor Sanchez!

Now if only they had some enterprising young men and women to help get the weapons across the border and through the checkpoints! Oh and also take out a weapons shipment from a rival group, because we can't let the other players get TOO powerful now can we?

So..you'd be playing Shadowrun: Obama's Adventures in Syria edition?

I dig it.

Hi all, how do you deal with the mage player who uses assessing all the time? It takes up a lot of time per session as he insists to assense everyone and the amount of "suprise warding" is getting unmanageable

Do a session in a really heavy background count.

Okay so, I've been working on this on and off for a while. Basic premise is a chameleon cyborg infiltrator, but it feels a bit too thinly spread.

Suck it up? Sensing is one of the specific huge advantages that mages have. Asking him to not use it would be like asking the face not to talk anymore.

What is he assensing for exactly? And is he astrally projecting?

Sounds like he doesn't trust you enough to let him know when there's something relevant to actually assense. Try talking with him and letting him know that you're willing to assume that he's being alert, and that you'll give him the chance to assense when it's relevant.

Theres no exception. Elves concealed their appearance during the 5th world but they did not 'change' at the beginning of the 6th. Magic did not vanish entirely, powerful mages were able to use the trickle that remained to cast weak spells, min9r illusions among them. And Immortal Elves are pretty much all powerful mages.

It's suggested that any spike-babies born in the period also looked mostly human, and none of those changed when the 6th world dawned either. They need magic or bodysculpting to look proper pansy.

In some pre-4th edition lore there's talk about how the Immortal Elves went into hiding during the 5th world because most of their powers did not function. However they occasionally were able to do minor magic. I dimly recall one story about how an elf in Ireland was accused of witchcraft and was sentenced to burning at the stake. She only managed to harness enough magic to throw a fireball and escape at the last moment as she was being led to her execution. Can't remember the source, you could try looking through the Ancient Files.

Immortal Elves born pre-5th World never stopped looking naturally elven. Elves/dwarves born pre-2011 are possible, but they should probably have the Human-looking quality (SR5, pg 75) unless you buy metaposeur augmentation.

I feel you. In my current Vampire: Dark Ages group, everyone with Auspex desperately needs to scan everybody and everything imaginable.

And also they insist on the GM telling them the aura colours, so lots of looking up tables.

The best way to work around that, is talking with your mages, I guess. Tell them that you feel, that the permanent assensing is disrupting the flow of the game. And if they can dial it down a bit. Except of course for important NPCs, and that you will basically hint at them if there is something critical to be assensed.

Assume he buys successes, don't get him to roll.
Sound increasingly annoyed each time he does it within an inappropriate amount of time.
Then hit him with a surprise combat encounter when he's rocking the negative dice pool modifier.

Hypothetically, can a person goblinise or 'spike' into an elf or dwarf and then SURGE later?

I guess.
You're pushing the boat pretty fucking far into Mary Sue territory with those two choices though.

No. There has literally never been a case of someone starting human and then turning into an elf/dwarf. You're either born one, or you're not one. Goblinization is only for orks/trolls.

No. You are born an elf or dwarf, you can't turn into one.

The only way for a non-elf or dwarf to turn into one is via CFD. First you 'die', turn into an e-ghost, then upload into nanites anduse them to over-write the personality of some poor elf/dwarf and steal their body.

Depending on how highly you respect Catalyst this may actually explain why CFD was introduced to the setting in the first place. Don't we all secretly wish our human self-inserts could be reborn as an elven magical-girl pornomancer?

I'm looking at you, Bull.

>Bull
>Human

He used to be.

as a child

You mean he's not any more?
Still whines like one.
Constantly.

Can someone please explain to me why conjuring spirits as a Hermetic mage, or any tradition for that matter, has categories?

For example a Hermetic mage has:

Combat: Fire
Detection: Air
Health: Man
Illusion: Water
Manipulation: Earth

What is the purpose of this and what happens if I summon a, for example, a Spirit of Earth for Combat?

Any page references would be great. Thanks in advance for the help.

It's what category of spell the spirit can assist with

Ok, but what if I summon it for a different task?

Then it doesn't matter.

Will the spirit just refuse to do the task? What happens thematically and mechanically?

the only time it matters what type of spirit you summon is if you want it to "Aid Sorcery" or some related task like "Aid Alchemy"

FOR ANY OTHER TASK IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT KIND OF SPIRIT IT IS

Those aren't "general types of tasks" they're "types of spells"

Are you dealing with a shitty GM or are you the shitty GM in question?

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding.

So what's the point of the categories?

I can summon a Spirit of Earth for Combat as a Hermetic Mage?

I'm just wondering why they're categorised? Does it serve a purpose or is it just for theme?

I'm not the GM.

The categories ARE TYPES OF SPELLS
They don't mean ANYTHING ELSE

Have you even read the magic rules at all?

"Combat" is not a type of task, it is a category of spells.

No, I'm new to Magicians. Sorry, I don't mean to cause so much frustration.

Oh, ok. I think I get it now. I think I'll read over the whole Magic section before I ask another question. I seem to be pissing people off. Haha

So it's for when the spirit is assisting me with a spell. It has to be in their assigned category.

Right. Got it.

>I think I'll read over the whole Magic section before I ask another question
Yes, you should have.

Also only BOUND spirits can assist with spells. Summoned spirits can't.

Ok, thanks.

And it is of special note, this is what Ally Spirits are really good at.

Street Grimoire, p201:
>When using Aid Sorcery and Aid Study services, an ally spirit is considered appropriate for every spell category.

tbf, the books are terribly organised.

It's pretty upfront that Combat-Detection-Illusion-Health-Manipulation are spell categories and nothing more. They aren't mentioned outside of the magic section or in any other context besides relating to categorizing spells.

Here's your page reference, btw
SR5 Core, p302:
>id Alchemy, Sorcery, and Study: As a service, the spirit can add its Force as a dice pool bonus to your Alche- my, Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting (for spell rituals), and Learning Tests if its type matches the spell’s category, as listed under your tradition (p. 279).

Interestingly Spell Sustaining and Spell Binding (if you're a dick to spirits and use Spell Binding) don't have a note about the type of Spirit matching the Spell Category for that Tradition in 5th. I don't have my 4th or 3rd book handy to check if that was the case then, but I do seem to remember it being important before.

Also I am posting as both both the nice guy and the dick to keep you on your toes.

I would probably, as a GM, rule on RAI that Sustain Spell has to match the Spirit Type for the tradition, given that Sustaining Foci have to match, but RAW it seems like any kind of spirit can sustain any kind of spell.

Yeah, I haven't read that section yet hence the confusion. I was looking specifically for a section describing the categories. Maybe if I had read the whole Magic section of the book I would of realised this.

Sweet, now I have something to reference. Thanks.

Well done. You sure showed me. Haha

If this is because of your GM, they're too stupid to be redeemable, go find another one.

>trying to learn about Conjuration
>hasn't learned about Sorcery yet
It's like you're trying to get a Master's in Maths without ever having taken elementary algebra.

No, it's all on me and my reading comprehension.

I've played a Decker before so learning mechanics for something else won't be a problem.

I'm new to magicians not Shadowrun.

It's not complexity, it's prerequisite knowledge. Spell categories explained under sorcery, then referenced under conjuration. They're in the book Sorcery first, Alchemy second, Conjuration third for that reason.

Street Grimoire page 41. You can homerule whatever you want but the canon is a combat spirit can only be used for fighting.

>homerule
>street grimoire

if I don't have that book it isn't a houserule

also how the fuck is such important information only in a splatbook?

I'd just like to add to this post that it's a good thing that spirits can't perform tasks outside of their categories for traditions; if they could conjuring would be way too fucking powerful over everything else.

Thank you for finding that, I was looking all over to pull that out and correct people.

There's a reason that spirit categories exist, and it's not just so you can offload drain. 'Spirits who can do any task' are one of several mistakes people make that leads to spirits being overpowered.

Well they clarified it in that book because there was confusion. People thought the categories thing was limited only to spells. It's still core, just more abstract without this clarification. Blame shadowrun editing.

Random hostile spirit passing by?

>Infiltrator
>Physical limit 3

srg, how did early magic users learn magic? Did they just know how to use it, or did it require a shit load of heavy study? How was magic worked with in the first few decades of it's re-emerging?

>srg, how did early magic users do anything?
magic

Largely trial-and-error mixed in with flavor appropriate for their tradition (Hermetics studied old books on magic and saw what stuck, shamans felt more in-tune with their powers while in nature and went on vision quests, etc.). As for the second part, I suggest reading the Sixth World Almanac.

They kept using magic, but now it worked. Shamans of various tribal groups were the first to sort it out, because they still practised rituals daily and they were likely to take the advice of dreams and omens (totems). Thus the edge the nascent NAN had in the War. Similarly, other religious faiths found miracles now occurring on a regular basis.

Hermeticism came from studying ancient grimoires like Greek metaphysics, the Book of Enoch, the Treatise of Solomon, Picatrix, Corpus Hermeticum, the Book of the Dead, and all the other occult texts that have been written up throughout the ages. The organized nature of it's study and use appealed to institutions like corporations, and if you take an Awakened kid and tell them to practise these rituals because they work, eventually they do.

It's a falsehood that hermeticism is one unified school, just as shamanism is a thousand different variations on a theme- a subtlety we've lost in recent editions of SR. Depending on available resources and inclination when the school was being formed, some hermetics learn Enochian and study angelic texts, others Latin and the works of Isaac Newton, others themed themselves around Thelema, Qabbalism, or the Dao. So long as the study was academic in nature, it's more hermetic than shamanic.

No, it's not. It's not RAW until printed. If you don't have Street Grimoire, then there's nothing RAW in core that mentions anything other than Aid Sorcery, Aid Study, or Aid Alchemy.

RAW is RAW and if you aren't using the book, then it isn't RAW. Period. It's not "just a clarification" It's the first time the rule is printed.

Or maybe they assumed that people could work out that the explicit category of a spirit was related to the tasks that the spirit could do. But people didn't, so they clarified. No need to get your panties in a twist.

It's also a really stupid example because Spirits of Air have NO ability to heal, in their standard or optional powers.

>Or maybe they assumed that people could work out that the explicit category of a spirit was related to the tasks that the spirit could do
That's called RAI. It is your panties that are the twisted ones.

Fair call. As I said I'll read the whole section from start to finish.

You're right, it's RAI instead of RAW, and they have now made it so that RAW instead of RAI line up. No one said it was RAW in core, only that it's now RAW. You not having the book doesn't mean that it's not a written rule in Shaodwrun 5, it just means that you haven't read all the rules. It's a bad example because none of the core spirits have a healing skill or power (unless you count Guard, which is debatable), but it's at least a clear example of the intent.

You're the one who is getting real fucking upset that your interpretation is different from what CGL intended and has now explicitly stated.

>You not having the book doesn't mean that it's not a written rule
Actually it does.

Funny enough, magic apparently worked before the Awakening, it was just hard as fuck to do. In the new SR Games, they talk about how the Black Lodge was able to do magic in the Fifth World, but that is more hearsay rather than confirmation, so take it with a grain of salt.

Early though? From what I remember reading the Native Americans had magic at the start of the Awakening because they still worshiped their ancestors and had spirit animals and shit, and that's how the Mary Sioux's defeated the United States.

If you aren't playing with all the other traditions from Street Grimoire, then Hermeticism equates to study and practice; a much more scientific look at magic, seeking to explain why it happens and attempting to exploit it for the benefits of metahumanity (or just themselves). They understood magic because they studied it, put the pieces together, and then put it into practice.

As for Shamanism, it's more of a spiritual religious based way of looking at things; you could get your powers from a God, or Nature, or whatever the hell you choose and you have it because the two of you are linked. Stay in the favor of your benefactor and you get cool magics. Now it doesn't mean you have to be religious, but you're more superstitious as a Shaman than as a Hermetic Mage.

At least, that's my take on it.

Also, read this guy's post because it's spot on. The new editions traditions are very, very generalized to make it easier to do magic for newer players.