Homebrew

Well, for my games I'm basically going to have the race be required, just like how in earlier editions of d&d races were explicitly tied to classes.

That being said, I don't see why you couldn't have a warlock that picks the pact boons and invocations geared toward the hell spawn. If possible though, I'd like to shift some of the crap to being either being A. Racial bonuses or B. Have the abilities be suboptimal unless you are the race.

For example, perhaps the pact boon that gives you the symbiote causes a negative effect. But, if you pick the hell spawn race, one of the racial effects makes the negative effect a moot issue. He's a more specific example:

In the comic, the symbiote is a neural parasite that feeds on souls or necroplasm. The body of a hell spawn is made entirely of necroplasm, so it's a moot issue. Perhaps to represent this mechanically, the symbiote pact boon inflicts a disease on you, or removes the benefits from resting, or perhaps takes all the calories from the first 3 meals you est in a day. In all three of these cases, the living construct subtype would make the downsides a moot issue, since they don't get sick, don't need to rest, and don't need to eat. But for anyone else, they would need to compensate for these effects somehow. I'm not saying that's the exact way I'd want to handle it, I'm just trying to illustrate the concept I'm trying to get across. Give the pact boon some negative side effects that picking the hell spawn race nicely counteracts!

Make sense?

What do you mean by lore weirdness?

Basically all the mechanical effects in this game can be tied to "lore weirdness" in some way or another..

Have you ever read the comic? The movie is an awful representation of the comics, especially because in the comics, he's specifically told NOT to use his powers, because he will die if he uses them up.

The only powers he can use without worrying about running out of juice are the ones his suit gives him, which admittedly are quite powerful and versatile. But in the comics, he tends to rely on the combat skills he cultivated during his lifetime, and using guns and other mundane weapons.

Ok cool.

So another question, what is the niche that a hellspawn fills in the party?

What is their function in and out of combat?

I explain the lore weirdness in the post.

The hellspawn, when using the appropriate pact boons, fills the same role as a warlock, because it is a warlock.

It's just a fun character concept - t doesn't fil a niche per say. You deal nice melee damage as one, with also the ability to cast spells. It's just a fun gish.

But, because of the racial benefit (the re-skinned dwarven toughness), they effectively have a d10 hit die instead of a d8. The melee damage they deal is probably going to benefit from strength, I want to give them one more attack per turn than the current warlock melee path, but with the accompanying trade off that it will either be more difficult or impossible to add their charisma to damage, or maybe they just swap out their strength for charisma when it comes to damage? As is, the warlock class can get some big numbers because they add BOTH their charisma and strength to the damage of their attacks. This build will give them an extra attack, but less modifiers so it will probably end up as less damage.

The trade off though, is that they will be less squish. I'm thinking of giving them either high AC, or damage reduction from the symbiote.

Let me make this make more sense.

It's going to fill the same role as the warlock tat gets a weapon as a pact boon, but in a different fashion.

The pact of the blade warlock (if thats what its called) can add both his strength/dex AND his charisma to attacks, and he can use the strongest weapons in the game, even weapons the fighter cannot use (monster weapons). So, he can hit pretty darn hard, bt he's pretty squishy, and IIRC he can only hit 3 times.

This warlock is going to be MUCH LESS squishy than the pact of the blade warlock, but he's either not going to be able to add two stat modifiers to his attacks, or have some sort of drawback to adding his two stats modifiers to his attack. He may be able to swap his CHA for strength/dex, I havent decided yet. But, he's going to get four attacks instead of three.

So he'll be tankier. I might give him invocations that give him more damage than the pact of the blade warlock if he expends resources, but the pact of the blade warlock will be able to deal consistently more damage. Make sense?

>This build will give them an extra attack, but less modifiers so it will probably end up as less damage.

That's all going to depend on what dice they are using to hit with.

Speaking of dice you are going to want to make sure to just make this isn't a better Fighter or better Barbarian

I'm pretty sure Blade Pact maxes out at 2 attacks but I could be wrong. Also monster weapons?

Also what's going to separate this much less squishy Blade Pact from Fighters/Barbarians?

Wow. I just realized you don't actually know how anything about the warlock class....

Melee warlocks are not comparable to barbarians or fighters because no matter how much they do in melee, they are still full casters.

A melee warlock is objectively worse than a barbarian or fighter in melee, but that's okay because he doesn't need to be as good. He has spells, and he has the BEST cantrip in the entire game.

Eldritch blast is a cantrip every single warlock can take and it only requires one evocation to do lots of damage. It does 1d10+5 damage per ray with a single evocation investment. To make things easier for you, that means an average of 10.5 damage per ray. That's 42 damage on average at higher levels. It also gets invocations to make it even more formidable.

Also, I just looked it up, it's two attacks, but again, them fighting in melee isn't do do lots of damage by swinging their sword. Most of it comes from their really badass spells that work great in melee. And eldritch blast.

Also, the monster weapons are stuff like minotaur greataxes, or weapons that giants use. Warlocks are automatically proficient with their pact weapon, so by RAW they can pick any weapon they want, no matter how oversized this means they can do like 3d12 damage before even getting into modifiers. It's pretty gnarly. But again, most of a melee warlocks damage comes form casting spells up in their face, or using eldritch blast.

From what I've seen, most DM's also house-rule abilities or items that allow warlocks to channel eldritch blast through a weapon. This is the only way they can outdamage other melee classes by actually attacking.

My plan with the hellspawn warlock variant is to deal less actual damage, but attack more and be tankier.

Also, warlocks can dual wield and that can really up their melee damage output. Pick some gnarly one handed monster weapon, then grab something you can cast shillelagh for your offhand

Ironically, I think the most powerful warlock build is 2 warlock/18 sorcerer, because it gives you all the goodies of a sorcerer, PLUS a fully powered eldritch blast.

Such death!

Necroplastic Construct: The body of a hellspawn is a body composed of necroplasm in the shape of a large human. Because they are made of necroplasm, they have no need to eat, sleep, or drink, the necroplasm sustains them. They can injest food and drink if they desire, and store the biomass in their bodies and can use it to increase their size, or digest it. The supernaturally tough properties of the hellspawn make them immune to disease, and allow creatures that subsist off nercoplasm to sustain themselves by leeching an amount of necroplasm that does not effect the hellspawn. The necroplasm provides a form of protection for the soul, allowing anything that would normally damage the soul to first damage the hellspawns body. Instead of sleeping, the hellspawn can enter an inactive state for 4 hours a day to gain the benefits of a long rest. The hellspawn does not dream in this state and is fully aware of it's surroundings, and can notice approaching enemies and other events as normal. The can hellspawn can sleep if they desire to maintain some semblance of their past life, or to just pass the time, and gain all the benefits thereof. The hellspawn still needs to breathe.

Necroplastic toughness: Because the body of a hellspawn is made up of 400+ pounds of necroplasm, the Hellspawn is Supernaturally tough and can survive and recover from wounds that would kill a most creatures. Your hit point Maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.

Ability score increases: While all hellspawn have different strengths and weaknesses depending on their past life, one trait that hellspawn are selected for is their drive and willpower. This manifests as a +2 bonus to charisma.

Size and Speed: Most hellspawn are shaped like large humans, often at a minimum of 6 feet tall and on average reaching heights of 8 feet during their lifetimes, and certain ancient hellspawn that consume enough biomass can reach heights of 9 feet tall. They are Medium sized, with a movement speed of 30 feet,

Now, I've pretty much made them in line with warforged, swapping out +1 to AC for +1 health per level, and giving them a charisma bonus instead of a strength and constitution bonus.

Would it be too much to give them Darkvision? One way they are weaker than warforged is they need to breathe, while warforged don't. This makes them susceptible to effects that warforged aren't.

Would this balance them out, or should I give them something else?

>Melee warlocks are not comparable to barbarians or fighters because no matter how much they do in melee, they are still full casters.

Read my post again dude. I'm not comparing the melee warlocks that the book provides with Fighters/Barbarians.

Also Warlocks have the best COMBAT cantrip in the game (and even then that's kind of debatable with ones that have alternate utility or higher base dmg).

> the monster weapons are stuff like minotaur greataxes, or weapons that giants use

Don't those things have size restrictions? I remember trying to make a halfling paladin and then the book told me I couldn't use weapons bigger than a certain size. This would make sense for minotaurs and such.

Ah, I understand, The difference, is that they are in the same boat as pact of the blade warlocks in that they are not going to be competing with the fighters and barbarians for melee damage. They're more of melee controllers and movement specialists than straight up bruisers. I guess they're mostly going to be focusing on grabbing people's attention to attack them and raining down some deadly ass spells, up close and personal. So basically, they do the same thing as the pact of the blade warlock, but instead of hitting hard on their melee attacks, they'll be able to survive while getting pounded on and dishing back out big spell damage. Does that make sense? Same thing, just survive-ability instead of damage dealing (for melee).

And yes, eldritch blast is the best cantrip in the game. But it's not a melee attack, yet. There are no invocations that allow glaive locks yet, and there is nothing that allows hideous blow type attacks. That is the most common warlock homebrew rule though.

>Don't those things have size restrictions
the warlock ability makes you proficient with it, no matter what. Unless it's been changed, you can use any weapon in any book without issue. That can let you do way too much damage.

the big difference between the build I want to make, and the existing melee warlock is:

This will require much more investment

It will have drawbacks, that certain choices can nullify, but still drawbacks none the less

It will do much less damage per attack, with no option for those overpowered monster weapons

It will be beefier as far as defenses

It will have more attacks, but they deal less damage, and will probably deal less damage overall (no monster weapons, just chains and fists)

It will have some cool movement options, like an invocation for flying (spawn can fly)

It won't step on anyone's toes, its just going to be a cool character concept that can take a hit, dish some back out, and basically live up to the comic

Alright, so what defensive abilities will the symbiote give?

I know for sure that the stuff I want to be able to get from the various pact boons and invocations related to it are as follows:

Chain attacks and spiked gauntlet attacks
Flying
Some sort of defensive boost

All of that can be achieved via pact boons AND invocations without being overpowered. The best bang for your buck should definitely be the pact boon when you first get it. I think that's when we should get the first first or chain attack, and the initial defensive boost.

What do we do for the defensive boost? I figure our options are either resistance to damage (cool, but powerful for early on), an AC bonus slightly better than mage armor, or a temporary hit point boost.

What combination thereof should we do? How about it initially functions as a mage armor, and you can get an invocation to make it give temp hit points or resistance to a damage type of your choice? Ideas? Im all ears

Pact Boon - Symbiote: Your soul is bonded with a neural parasite demon The demon takes the form of a suit with chains and gauntlets. The suit provides you with resistance to a single damage type. You can change the damage type as a standard action. The available damage types are: Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing. The suit also provides you with two Spiked Gauntlets and two Spiked Chains. you can attack with one of them as an attack action. The Spiked Gauntlet deals 1d8 piercing and bludgeoning damage, and the Spiked Chain deals 1d6 Piercing and Bludgeoning damage and it's reach is double that of an ordinary weapon of your size. If you have the Dual Wielder Feat you can attack with two of the weapons in one attack action. The parasite feeds on your own soul, and once a week you must make a charisma saving throw against your own spell check. If you fail, you are infected with the disease Soul Strain for a number of days equal to your Charisma modifier. Soul rot makes you unable to obtain inspiration while losing any inspiration you may already have, and gives you disadvantage on any charisma saving checks.

I revamped it all:

Pact Boon - Symbiote: Your soul is bonded with a neural parasite demon The demon takes the form of a suit with chains, gauntlets, and a cape. The suit provides you with resistance to a single damage type. You can change the damage type as a standard action. The available damage types are: Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing. The parasite feeds on your own soul, and once a week you must make a charisma saving throw against your own spell check. If you fail, you are infected with the disease Soul Strain for a number of days equal to your Charisma modifier. Soul rot makes you unable to obtain inspiration while losing any inspiration you may already have, and gives you disadvantage on any charisma checks.

Spikes of Leetha: The suit provides you with two Spiked Gauntlets and two Spiked Chains. You can attack with one of them as an attack action. The Spiked Gauntlet deals 1d8 piercing and bludgeoning damage, and the Spiked Chain deals 1d6 Piercing and Bludgeoning damage and it's reach is double that of an ordinary weapon of your size. If you have the Dual Wielder Feat you can attack with two of the weapons in one attack action.

Heckstrike: This invocation allows you to attack with a second one of the suit's spiked gauntlets or chains. If you have the Dual Wielder feat, you can attack with the remaining two weapons. You can never attack more than once with each weapon.

Wing's of leetha: The suit has a large red cape. This cape is actually the wings of the neural parasite. As a standard action, you can put yourself under the effect of the fly spell.

I'm wondering if I should add another ability that allows you to swap out your strength check for charisma, or would keeping the class MAD make it more balanced?

Or, should I add an ability that allows you to add your charisma bonus to your damage for a temporary amount of time?

So many questions.

Hideous Blow: As a bonus action, you can imbue your chosen Weapon with your eldritch blast if you have Pact of the blade. The next time you successfully strike your enemy after imbuing your weapon, make a melee touch attack. If the touch attack succeeds, the target suffers the effect of Eldritch blast. If your eldritch blast would normally create more than one beam, you must make a touch attack for each beam. If you have not used your bonus action for the turn, you may imbue the weapon inbetween attacks, if you can attack more than once per turn with your chosen weapon.
If you have chosen pact of the symbiote and have the spikes of the house of k invocation, you can imbue your spiked gauntlets and chains with eldritch blast as a bonus action. The next time you successfully strike with your spiked gauntlet or chain, you must make a melee touch attack. If the attack succeeds, the target suffers the effect of eldritch blast. If your eldritch blast would normally create more than one beam, then each beam is imbued into a separate gauntlet or chain. If you are unable

I feel like the Pact Boon symbiote may be a bit underwhelming from the get go,

Is it in line with the other pact boons, or should I beef it up?

The whole build requires a pretty heavy invocation investment - I'm thinking of adding a crappy heal to the initial pact boon to front load it a bit. Maybe a bonus action that heals you equal to your level + your charisma modifier? That makes it potentially life saving at lower levels, but virtually useless once your HP grows.

>not going to be competing with the fighters and barbarians for melee damage

If you give your guys the same amount of melee attacks as these guys then they will be competing for melee damage.

>And yes, eldritch blast is the best cantrip in the game.

Last I checked it can't clean clothes so...yeah. Best combat cantrip.

And size restrictions translate too "The weapon is literally too big for the character to use" So many in pure RAW it's ok but the game does already set a precedent with Small creatures not being able to use weapons too big for them, and I was reading stuff that said the only reason Giants/Minotaurs have such dmging weapons is because of their size.

>if you have Pact of the blade

Wait are you giving this to the class or the race?

The only stuff for the race are the two posts explicitly with racial abilities, everything else is either an invocation or boon

I don't know why yo're trying to argue with me about the monster weapons - the way I described them is how they work, the devs have confirmed it. They're not happy about it though, and I think they may errata the wording to change it. But basically, you trying to argue that the warlock ability doesn't give you access to these overpowered weapons is like trying to tell me gravity doesnt exist. You can argue til you're blue in the face, and I could agree with you, but it doesnt change how it functions

How can someone be in the symbiote pact and the blade pact?

Well it does function in the most RAW perspective, however there exists a precedent within the system that size of a weapon does impact how usable it is to certain creatures.