Exalted General - /exg/

Solars have enemies of equal power, they're called Solars.

They don't need some edgelord supah speshul background.

What caste is she?

No personality, can't say.

Dawn, with occult favoured.

Keychain of Creation was really fun, and I still love watching ExalTwitch. I don't normally watch streams but they're pretty good and a great display of 3rd edition.

Keychain of Creation is the only unofficial Exalted thing I've really enjoyed. It's what got me into the game in the first place. Everything else... the other webcomics I've seen either dragged on or just didn't seem well written. Some homebrew material is interesting, I guess, but I've never used any.

Maybe I ought to check out ExalTwitch one of these days. Sounds like it's the closest I'll ever get to playing.

It's okay user, we can pretend we're at the table with them. watching them roll, hearing the GM's descriptions, sharing in the atmosphere.

You know, it's hard not to realize how fucking bizarre it'd be to have Exalted parents but not to be Exalted yourself. This is especially worse if you're not Dragon-blooded. If your father and mother were a Solar and his Lunar mate respectively, you're going to end up so fucked up for the rest of your life.

Your parents have utterly nothing in common with you. You can't do anything they can do, you're a baseline human (If half-Castes aren't a thing any more). By the time you're dead, they'll be completely unchanged.

I mean, it's weird enough when the Dragonblooded matriach is younger and hotter than her granddaughter. But this would be really messed-up, even if your parents had the best of intentions for you. They would just be too different.

>not being the Solar god-queen content with giving your bara beastman husband useful heirs he can groom to suit his purposes

Maybe try thinking about others, for once. Its fun not being a paranoid wreck who's only concerned with dominating others.

I don't follow. I was talking about how it'd feel to be the child of a Solar/Lunar pairing, or even two Solars.

It's not as bad if one parent is mortal, but presumably Solars reproduce with their Lunar mate. And the result is either a half-Caste or a human.

>presumably Solars reproduce with their Lunar mate.
You ever hear the joke about where a 900-pound gorilla sits?

On its bond mate's face?

For example. But the full answer is usually "Wherever the hell it wants."

Solars reproduce with whomever they damn well please.

But yeah being the mortal child of an Exalted must be a bittersweet experience. No matter how hard you try or how far you go you'll never come close to their accomplishments You'd go your entire life getting the same kind of congratulations a child gets when they learn how to walk or get good grades.

She has no caste.

She has no style.

This girl has shitty pink air.

I think a DB family is way worse than any celestial family.

Yes, your mother/father is a tremendously powerful Solar, but that's what parents are. You never had any chance to get to their level anyway. You were born and raised by a parental figure that is ridiculously divine, but that's the rule on earth in any family where the father/mother is very powerful/rich. It can get pretty fucked up, sure, but not terribly so.

But let's imagine a DB family. Your mother is an Exalt, wielding power beyond comprehension. Your brother exalted when you were 17. He is currently being groomed for greatness. Your mother and father had huge expectations for you, but alas, you never Exalted.

Can you imagine the look of utter disappointment on your parent's faces when it became apparent you'd never exalt? Can you imagine the unyielding thoughts that, if things were different, if you had been only slightly better, you could have become a demigod? The dreams keeping you awake every night? And your little brother coming back to the family compound time to time, with awesome powers and incredible tales, when you're barely existing?

A DB family can get fucked up really, really quickly.

That's not even counting particular brands of fucked up.

Let's say you have a twin. You shared everything ever. He exalts. You don't.

Or you were the family try hard. You trained every day for weeks and weeks, while your little brother was always doing fuck all and getting into trouble. You were the family's pet... until your brother exalts, and you don't. Then your struggle is forsaken, because obviously something is wrong in you, while obviously your brother did something right, because he was blessed.

Or, to tell things differently, in a Celestial family, there is no expectations that you (or your brothers/sisters) will be able to reach the peaks of your parents. Sure, your parents can have unreasonable expectations for you, and no expectations at all can still hurt, but it's contained. Your father, and yourself, won't expect you to be able to suddenly throws lightning or jump higher than mountains. And if he does he is crazy.

In a DB family, there is the conscious expectation that you can be as great as your parents, and that the only reason you didn't is because you are defective. Your brother? He'll live 300 years, learn to throw lightnings and jump higher than building while being revered by anyone and fucking pretty much all the hot girls he wants. You? Ah! You are defective. Something is wrong with you.

Malfeas wants some akuma? Easy. Just go to any DB household and talk to that 20ish reserved woman that tries far too much to smile when her parents talk of how her sister is doing them proud in the DB school. Instant akuma.

>Your brother? He'll live 300 years, (...) fucking pretty much all the hot girls he wants.

I would object to this last point. Dragon-Blooded are big on a) arranged marriages and dynastic ties, which rules out fucking all the hot Dynast girls he wants, and b) bloodline purity and ensuring a consistent supply of more DBs, which rules out fucking all the hot commoner girls he wants.

But he can fuck all the hot _boys_ he wants! That won't result in unfortunate bastards or improper pregnancies or the like.

Or as they supposedly say in parts of the Middle East - boys for pleasure, women for children.

In the Realm, of course, it would be reversed for female DBs. Have all the lesbian affairs you want, but your pregnancy is practically family property and we will be VERY UPSET if you so much as look like you're letting the wrong dick in and might spoil our family's good name and breeding. We do not want any doubts about who's the dad here!

>I would object to this last point. Dragon-Blooded are big on a) arranged marriages and dynastic ties, which rules out fucking all the hot Dynast girls he wants, and b) bloodline purity and ensuring a consistent supply of more DBs, which rules out fucking all the hot commoner girls he wants.
*smugly adjusts glasses*

Selective Conception.

Maiden Tea is a thing.

Selective Conception is very nice for that sort of fun, in theory.

In practice, it's a catch-22, at least for Dynasts. You can't fuck around until you demonstrate that you have it, and how will you demonstrate that you have it (in character) except by fucking around?

Maiden Tea is a thing, but it's an expensive thing: around Resources 3 by the /week/.

It's probably cheaper to buy pleasure slaves in bulk from the Guild and then sacrifice them to, well, whatever sacrifice outlet you have.

>Frankly, I think Infernals and Abyssals are a mistake.
I disagree. They've got their own distinct, interesting themes. Their presence adds to the game.

>Solars have enemies of equal power, they're called Solars.
I think Lunars and Sidereals should be able to fulfill that role, as well. Sure they aren't as powerful as Solars all in all, but they should be close enough to equal, and powerful enough in their own niche, to make for properly challenging enemies, even without any considerable advantage in terms of experience.

Maiden's Tea is a thing.

Honestly, I think a veteran DB should be more than a threat to an up and coming Solar.

Yeah, in theory when the Solar hits essence 5 he'd win easily but a veteran monk should be able to match a starting dawn blow for blow.

But that's how I'd prefer it to be, with PCs of all splats on roughly even footing.

I'd prefer a lever that can be twiddled, myself. DBs for "telling actual DB stories" and DBs for "tooling around with Celestials in mixed-splat games" are two very different beasts, but it's not impossible to turn one into the other without just having two DB books, I think.

>Maiden Tea is a thing, but it's an expensive thing: around Resources 3 by the /week/.
>It's probably cheaper to buy pleasure slaves in bulk from the Guild and then sacrifice them to, well, whatever sacrifice outlet you have.
Dynasts are rich, though. They also aren't, as a rule monsters. Ruthless, egoistical, used to having things their own way, sure, but treating sexual partners as disposable goods you'll actually, literally dispose of when you're done is probably not something most DBs would find palatable. Some may well do it, of course.

I think that's the case in 3e, at least when we'll see the actual DB splat.

For now, I assume: veteran specialized DB = starting specialized Solar in all my games, and adjust the powerlevel and charms appropriately.

Honestly, if they made the charms even (If not equal) they'd be able to do it with stats and a Supernal-thing. No, it's not a normal thing for a DB to have a supernal but if you are in a mixed splat game you are NOT a normal DB. You a damn notable one and likely one with some serious destiny riding on you.

That wasn't meant to be a serious suggestion. ô_O It was supposed to be a throwaway remark about the price and frequency with which one would have to use maiden tea. Maybe I should have said something like "A drug habit would be cheaper" instead. (Cocaine and Heroin were both listed at Resources 2 in 2e, haven't seen them in 3e yet. Opium, Resources 1.)

I agree, an E4-E5 DB definitely should be able to do that. DBs of that calibre should be rare, but I think 3E makes it pretty clear that high-Essence Exalts are indeed rare.

This, on the other hand, I wouldn't like. An experienced Solar should be significantly more powerful than an experienced Dragon-Blooded. Having things be otherwise would change the game drastically.

Sorry, it's just that I've seen people have some pretty strange views on the Dragon-Blooded, and the other Exalted for that matter. Regular disposal of sex slaves is something some people could seriously suggest as a thing Dynasts might do.

That said, Maiden's Tea costs between Resources 2 and Resources 4, presumably depending on the quality of the Tea and is availability in wherever your character currently is. A single dose renders a female infertile for a month, and male for a period ranging from a day to a week, depending on how high-grade stuff we're talking about. It is expensive, but still affordable for a Dynast.

Oh, I meant Veteran as in like E3. An experienced monk who's been on a few hunts vs solars not 'The Empress herself'.

I'd really like to see the difference become one more of 'Reaching that essence in fluff' than 'Different power levels at the essence'.

Raising essence for DBs is a hard, personal struggle to refine your energy and to purify your connection to elements. As a result, few DBs actually raise essence and it's only monks and really notable characters who ever get to 3+

For Solars? It comes naturally to them, their essence flowing freely. Unless their life is cut short, basically every single solar will rise in essence.

That way you can have DBs/Solars be equally powerful in a mixed game while also explaining WHY Solars are such a threat. A solar will, given a bit of time, quickly reach the same sorts of levels that are the peaks of dragonblooded power and move into the mythical heroes of the DB levels.

Eh, I think an Essence 3 DB should be a tough fight, winnable but also easy to lose, for a starting non-Dawn Solar with reasonable combat investment. Maybe a bit more powerful than the Solar, but not so much that it'd be a hopeless fight.

>This, on the other hand, I wouldn't like. An experienced Solar should be significantly more powerful than an experienced Dragon-Blooded. Having things be otherwise would change the game drastically.
You could make it possible to easily houserule DBs up to parity with Solars, without also making normal DBs much better than Solars; you'd basically make it a design principle to avoid "a shitty version of a Solar Charm" Charms. Then, once you have a complete Charmset, you set DBs to have a worse excellency and a worse mote pool, which are easily changed if for some reason John wants to play a DB exile without being totally boned mechanically compared to Jane the Solar.

This obviously isn't going to be the case for Ex3; a quick glance at the QCs shows that Dragon-Blooded have shitty penalty negators, for example.

Lydia has written a decent piece on what it feels to not exalt in a family of DB: pandora.simons-rock.edu/~shataina/draft.html

The prologue is well written as it is the backstory of Shataina's character, though the rest was written as a recollection of games played by a really shitty DM with no knowledge of Exalted. Read the backstory and stop here.

>Lydia

Reading that frustrated me so much. I hate stories in which the protagonist has no agency.

Well, the issue at hand is that Lydia played with an incompetent GM, and she had not the balls to tell him to fuck off.

Thus, while the backstory of her character is well written and shows a deep understanding of the world of Exalted, the retelling of her games is incoherent and highly stupid, because her games were incoherent and highly stupid.

The highlight being, of course, the mortal king that raped her Solar character, because of course in Exalted mortals casually rape Solars. It's something that just happens.

Let's be real though, it'd probably be pretty cool to rape a Solar.

I have no particular issue with Solar raping. I'm sure it's pretty fun. I do have an issue with mortals raping Solars, and a bigger one with a mortal blackmailing a fully speced Performance/Manipulation Solar into rape.

For the love of rape, at least do it correctly.

A mortal would be honored beyond reason to be raped by a Solar, even if the mortal's preferences would normally say otherwise.

So Solars should just be played like Greek Gods?

More or less, yes.

That's kind of the intention too, afaik. The Exalted, especially the Celestial Exalted, and beyond the rules of mortal societies. They decide what is right and wrong for themselves.

Of course, this can bite them in the ass too, which I believe is also intended.

are beyond*

Apart from some things like the whole turning into a swan bit, yes. Solars overthrew the Titans in the dawn of time, they now have a comfy seat at the top of the cosmic order with very little to threaten them and lots of leeway for doing whatever the hell they want, be that crafting the best thing, sticking their dicks in the thing, meditating on the thing, researching the thing, or intimidating the thing into worshiping you.

That. Solars are so much beyond the mortal ken than merely entertaining the thinking that a mortal could not want to fuck them seems laughable. If the epitome of perfection made flesh, that is also the Goddess Empress of your nation, who saved your family from destruction more times than you can count, and is so beautiful it literally burns your eyes, ask you to share her bed for a night, you say yes.

I would. You would, too.

There is, however, one recourse for a Dynast that doesn't Exalt: Sorcery. It won't make you Exalted, you'll never be as good at it or really anything as your exalted brothers and sisters, and it's really only a consolation, but it at least puts you on the radar, makes it so your parents won't completely forget you. It won't be easy, not everyone's cut out for sorcery, but if you're willing to study hard, work hard, and take some risks, you can do it. You'll only ever be able to use Terrestrial spells, and those won't really compare to the charms of an Exalt, but it's something. More importantly, it gives you access to workings. You won't have the huge dice pools Exalts have to meet Goal Numbers, so you'll need to put serious efforts into finding Means to make your projects possible. But you can use those projects to make yourself better. Stringer, faster, never as good as an Exalt but at the peak of what mortals are capable of. If you push yourself, you might even be able to pull off a Celestial working after a few years of work, but it'll be sloppy and hard to control. Put together, it's enough to at least ensure you won't be forgotten, and that's much more than some can claim. If you're really smart and work hard, you might even make a name for yourself, get a pat on the back from your mom and dad.

I imagine the Heptagram is full of mortal students like that, hoping that they can make it so they're not a total disappointment at least.

>If the epitome of perfection made flesh, that is also the Goddess Empress of your nation, who saved your family from destruction more times than you can count, and is so beautiful it literally burns your eyes, ask you to share her bed for a night, you say yes.
What if she has App 1 though?

What's the best way to nerf demon summoning while actually making summoning elementals or using Necromancy a good idea?

You can only summon 2CDs during Calibration.

You seem to labor under the illusion that you would have a choice.

If you were fortunate, that Solar would employ some social charms to make you think she was the most beautiful creature there could ever be, and release you after with such an appreciation for the female form that any woman would be able to bring you ecstasy.

If you were not, she would delight in shocking you with her ugliness, but make you want her anyway. One part of your horrified, another part of you ecstatic. And worse, if she let you go afterwards, no other woman would be able to excite you. Except her, in all her horrid glory.

That assumes she has the fuck charms or social charms and such though. What if she's just a sword maiden with social stats of like 3/3/1 and Literally Every Melee Charm.

By the time she's in control of an empire, she won't just be a melee monster anymore.

But if she was, somehow, then do you want to piss off a woman that could annihilate literal gods without concern?

3CDs, 2CDs can be summoned on a full moon.

Play up the fact that while sorcerously bound demons are willing, loyal, obedient servants, they're _not_ human or even humanoid, and do not understand human customs. (Elementals at least live around humans.) Play demons like hyper autists: offering you raw legs torn off trespassers they caught, carving prayers to Malfeas into your walls, fastidiously spreading a covering of flour on every chair in your house, asking for blood samples, resorting your pantry by alphabetical order in Old Realm, painting over every blue surface in sight, and not understanding why you're so upset, they're only trying to help and be friendly.

Which even the 3E core book emphasizes.

Demons ain't normal, they should never be played as such.

I agree. And when all else fail, those mortals turn to Malfeas or the devious power of Necromancy.

A DB household can be a scary nest of disillusioned mortals trying desperately to matter in the grand scheme of things, if only for a pat on the back. If a demon told you he could give you power, to be something at the very least, not the shadow of your brothers and sisters but really someone, for the small price of your soul? It would take a very, very wilful individual to refuse.

No, I mean, change it so you can only summon 2CDs on Calibration.

>for the small price of your soul? It would take a very, very wilful individual to refuse.
Except they believe in reincarnation. Your soul is a rather larger price in that context. You're giving up all your future lives for this one.

A distant future you won't be around for vs the here and now...

Well, there's a reason those that can endure temptation are lauded, which is because they're so rare. Most would sacrifice that distant future for power now.

And you would be going against everything your parents hold dear, and everything they ever believed.

But would it matter? To have your names be acknowledged by your parents, even if it is only in scorn and hate. To be someone. To live forever, like your brothers and sisters. To have powers you dreamed for decades and decades, as your body slowly aged while your family didn't. To erase that feeling of failure that has accompanied you all your life.

Not all mortal dynast would take the bait. There is a large social conditioning to not. But a number absolutely would.

Except you will be around for it.

Here, lemme try an analogy: How much would I have to pay you today for you to die in five years?

I'll be around for my own reincarnation?

That kinda makes no sense.

The entire doctrine of the Immaculate Order makes no sense if you assume that reincarnation is the death of self. This is perfectly fine, because nobody in Creation assumes that.

I realize you don't believe in reincarnation, but try for a moment to look at it from the perspective of the people who do. They're working from something like a New Game+ perspective on life. Demons are sort of like a cheatcode with the drawback that you have to go for the high score this run, no more tries afterwards.

Let's say this girl just wrestled a bear, utterly destroyed the evil ghost that was plaguing the country and murdering children, before becoming a divine lightshow of pure golden power seen from miles and miles of beautiful mandalas singing her praises in all the language of Creation.

She asks you to share her bed.

No, I understand that the soul reincarnates, but I always thought that death of the self was in force in Creation. That even though my soul would be reborn, my self wouldn't be.

... and it makes even less sense now. I mean, the Dynasts have no memories of their previous incarnations, which should immediately put paid to the idea that the self reincarnates with the soul, unless they hallucinate memories of past lives. Or I have gravely misunderstood the setting.

I think we're getting into heavy metaphysics territory here. What is a "self"?

All humans in Creation - mortals, Dynasts, Solars - might have past life memories.

Well, they could in 2e (and they could even have First Age past life memories in some cases). It's kinda up in the air in 3e.

So Dynasts could have had First Age memories of being a Solar?

I imagine that couldn't have gone over well with the Immaculates.

Considering the low number of Dynasts in Creation, and the even lower number of First Age Solars, and then the number of times a soul would usually go through reincarnation and have their memories mostly scrubbed between those, the chance of that seems astronomically low.

But it's possible!

Did we ever get a proper Backer Charm file? Is it not actually out yet?

I could just imagine the Immaculates finding out about this Dynast having First Age Solar memories, and interrogating and torturing them and trying to find out Solar secrets, only to have their entire faith shown to be built on lies by those same memories.

>Dynast with First Age solar memories.
>Tries to juggle what he remembers with the Immaculate truth.
>Huge expectations from his parents.
>His brother exalts, he never.
>Become bitter and bitter as he ages, wallowing in failure.
>A demon comes, offering him power against his soul.
>All his life laid bare before him, all his struggle in vain, everything that he remembers telling him to accept. Urging him to accept.
>Power, greatness, everything he ever dreamed twice.
>His soul wants it. His memories wants it. His pride wants it.
>He is physically sick with the need. The need to be someone, the need to be acknowledged.
>...But he refuses. The most difficult choice that he ever made, in this life or the other.
>The morning come, and with it Luna.

And that, children, is how we make Lunars.

Rather than nerfing demon summoning, make improved versions of the elemental and necromancy summoning spells. Let them summon things of a higher Essence, like Garda birds for example.

It speaks to me of Solar Integrity.

Could be. But enduring a lifetime of torment and not giving up when everything comes trashing down? That's lunar to me.

Well, Marena there didn't suffer her whole life. She just made the decision that when everything was looking down that she wasn't gonna quit, so Luna came to her.

That one Solar bitch, the Twilight cunt, whatever her name is. She endured a life of sexism and such, but she never Exalted as a Lunar. Enduring doesn't guarantee Lunar trumps everything else.

>endured a life of sexism
Yeah, about that...

Exalted 2e had a bit of a funny miscoordination on that subject - rampant sexism, like the droit de segneiur in our history, was one of those things that always supposedly happened _elsewhere_ (or elsewhen, in backstories), but couldn't actually be found anywhere now outside of sob stories about why the Other is evil. Every author was writing about how their current subject area of interest was so progressive and presentist that they forgot to actually put in any sexist areas, and so the 2e setting ended up like the joke about the drow as a player race now being composed solely of Chaotic Good rebels yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin. (What kin?)

>The need to be someone, the need to be acknowledged.

This strikes me as an Infernal origin.

To wit, here's what I found when opening a random page in each Compass book and doing a Ctrl-F search for the first mention of "women" forwards.

West:
>The men of Wavecrest became proud of their new standing in the West, while the women found themselves with a higher place in society than most Western women, due to the importance of Wavecrest's agriculture.

East:
>Linowan’s current monarch was selected early by her aunt Renenth, the previous queen, and trained from childhood together with a couple of other candidates. At the time, Renenth herself was a figurehead queen, but a good teacher: Arkasi became queen 10 years ago. The two other women both hold high-ranking positions as well, with Sinnethi becoming the Linowan Ambassador to the Realm

South:
>They have dark chocolate-brown skin. Both men and women often wear their curly black hair down to their shoulders. Brakhani favor caftans of bright fabric adorned with beaded ornaments and brocade.
okay, that's not really saying much, what's the next hit... oh, it's for Brides of Ahlat, the super-elite women-only army.

North:
>The Haslanti have done well for themselves in the last century… so well that the League suffers a surfeit of young men and women with no hope of obtaining farms or herds of their own.
vague again, what's next...
>Most young men and women also spend tours of duty as full-time soldiers in their community’s local militia.
>All sailors in the Ice Squadron are volunteers who already served in their local militias. The captains and officers are career military men and women.

Scavenger Lands:
>The Guild’s headquarters is in a 12-story First Age tower near the center of the Nexus District. The lower three floors are a high-quality combination of department store and brothel where everything and everyone is for sale. Beautiful men and women model the latest fashions and hawk the latest high-quality goods.

I'm not /pol/ and I don't object to this, FWIW. I just think it's bizarre.

The main issue I have with it is that demon summoning is too versatile. With a little thought you can essentially make a demon to cover any situation which I don't particular care for. I'm thinking of just simply breaking up Demon Summoning so you have to pay XP for each demon and whatever it takes to get them IC.

But that would actually be going against the fluff.

Demons are versatile and they are used as such by summoners in the fluff.

What I would do is put a limit on the number you can have at a time. A limit like [Essence + Occult] in bound demons at a time, equal to Occult, or even [Occult/2] rounded down.

Of course, if you do limit it that way, there should be Charms created to allow the limit to be raised later as the Exalt grows in Essence.

>With a little thought you can essentially make a demon to cover any situation
Ban this.
Seriously, this is why druids used to be so broken in D&D, their shapeshifting powers effectively improved every time a new monster was published.
Now you're doing the equivalent of letting druids write their own animals to wildshape into. Don't.

This too. You create any demons, not the players.

>What I would do is put a limit on the number you can have at a time. A limit like [Essence + Occult] in bound demons at a time, equal to Occult, or even [Occult/2] rounded down.

This solution looks incredibly ugly, hacky, and shortsighted. The 3e corebook specifically calls out sorcerers as being able to easily amass large amounts of demons that should be represented as battle groups.

Besides, if you only impose it on personal bindings, I'll resort to task bindings, and if you impose the limit on task bindings, it makes no sense.

*shrug*

I was just offering ideas to the user who had a problem with players summoning demons.

How about changing it to [something based on Occult] TYPES of demon known to stop demonology by splatbook?

That'll work, I'll probably add in that an individual can only summon and bind a single 2CD each year with them returning at the end of the year. Later on, I'll add in some stuff to let them summon more than one or retain them for longer.

Give Demon Summoning a mote cost and say it's commited. Every health level sacrificed under the summoning counts as 2m, these health levels cannot be healed while the demon is summoned, and they don't need to be your own.

Task-Binding should also be more expensive than Personal Binding.

Killing a person completely under the sacrifice will mean that the demon is effectively summoned indefinetely since they cannot be uncommited.

Tadah! Now sorcerers who summon demons will either restrict their own potential or sacrifice health levels (such as other people) when summoning demons.