/STG/ Star Trek General

It does look a bit small. I'd have to rewatch Enterprise for the Romulan mine episode to be sure though.

While it doesn't always have exactly what you want, TrekCore is generally a very good resource for screencaps, at least as long as you aren't looking for captioning too.

Thanks. I'll have to check that out.

Nova has a pointy nose
Constelation has enclosing nacelles
Dauntless has both

nope, its about the right scale, any size issues are due to Colombia getting a little... squashed after being thrown through transwarp

>Columbia size

I don't know. This screencap is from the episode of ENT with the minefield. They seem a lot smaller than those people walking on Columbia's hull.

>nope, its about the right scale, any size issues are due to Colombia getting a little... squashed after being thrown through transwarp
Squished to about half-scale?

its between .9 and .85 is correct size, and look at how wibbley the front end is

Yeah but look at how big that dude is compared to the bridge section of the ship. That scale is not right.

Would it be likely for something like an oberth to be commanded by a commander instead of a captain?

Depends on the mission in question. But certainly for a short range to medium range patrol you could expect a Commander or Lt. Commander in charge.

It's not that deformed, and I'm mostly looking at the vertical scale anyways. Look the guys standing on the ship, and compare them to . The NX is almost as long as a Connie, and the saucers are about the same size.

Depends on the era and mission. If they're doing some real science and 'splorin', might get a captain, especially in the Admiral-Kirk era. If they are just doing cargo hauling in late-TNG/DS9 times, might even get down to a Lt in charge like in STO.

The Sovereign is smaller and therefore inferior.

[MENACING]

I always thought the Sovereign class was designed to replace the ageing Excelsior class, rather than the Galaxy. It shares more design features with the Excelscior refit

Would a game set where the ship and crew gets stranded on the far side of the Delta Quadrant but isn't Voyager be a good idea?

What system would work best for it?

How are you guys handling Pakleds in your campaigns?

youtube.com/watch?v=4lxIL1WlxSQ

With a blockade of their home system until they start discouraging piracy amongst their citizens.

I on the other hand thought that Sovereign was a ship built after a sobering amount of getting your ass kicked by the borg and twelve other kinds of aliens.
A ship with most of the bloat of a galaxy class removed, with improved weapons systems born from desperate research in times when having better phasers was a thing that kept you alive.

I mean seriously, Galaxy is more of a peaceful exploration/long range mission whip while Sovereign is more of a battleship, with scientific capabilities.

A healthy dose of Vitamin D(isruptor Fire)

Basically this. It's a Galaxy with the 'family and friends' amenities stripped out. Starfleet would never say it, just like they didn't with the Defiant, but the Sovereign is a straight up battle cruiser.

In STO they call it assault cruiser.

But that was the original intent of the Excelsior class, right? Starfleet was becoming much more militarised in the face of Klingon agression. The Excelsior was designed to be faster and more durable than its Klingon contemporaries. The reason we still see so many of them by the time of the dominion war is because they basically serve as battleships within the fleet.

Yeah but they got tiny ass phaser arrays when compared to both galaxy and sovereign classes.
Possibly because Excelsiors weapon systems were built around the concept of phaser banks and not arrays.

No, the reason we still see so many of them by the time of the Dominion War is because they're a rugged as FUCK workhorse, due to the extreme durability of systems that the Excelsior class needed to be exactly that.

They're reasonably quick, durable as all jesus fuck, basically everyone knows how to work with them...

How does the use of cloaking devices fit into the Klingon notion of honourable? The Klingons will regularly lambast the Romulans as cowardly and yet they make full use of their most prolific technology. Ambushes don't seem very "honourable".

The most honorable thing in existence is victory in combat.

the purpose of the Excellsior is the same as the purpose (in British service at least) of the Foxhound

the Connies/Snatch Land Rovers were good workhorses when they were built, but each sucsevise wave of upgrades took up more and more space and refits were getting more elaborate

while the Excelsiors/Foxhounds were designed to use the best equipment available at the time, but with excessive extra space for upgrades

Victory is the only true virtue in war.

Also most of the Klingon Empire is only paying lip service to their honour code.

Worf was an exception because he had nothing to do with the Empire until he was already almost an adult. He grew up having read everything about what a Klingon man should be and built his entire personality around being the perfect Klingon noble warrior, holding himself to insanely high standards and keeping true to those standards.

Then he meets real Klingons and he doesn't fit in with them because they fall very short of what they, in his mind, should be like.

As Worf was where in the TNG and DS9 we get most of our view of what a Klingon should be there is a big gap between the two. Jadzia was the other big source of Klingonness but she was a massive Klingaboo.

Worf and Spock were trying to/succeeding at living up to an idealised state that only existed at the dawn of their civilisations

The Excelsior was originally a test bed for the Transwarp drive, actually. It was robust as fuck because when you're fucking around with multiple warp fields affecting one another, you want your ship to be able to handle the stresses.

Well to be fair to the Connie, it was a 20 year old spaceframe getting upgraded. One of the later mostly canon sources noted that they dropped the original 18 month refit period to only 8. Hopefully they mothballed the damn things, or something, because with minor upgrades they could serve as effective third line ships.

Reminder that according to FASA, Geordi has as much Charisma as Troi, and only 2 points less than Riker, at 70. And Data has more than Worf at 47/37. {spoiler]But both Worf and Data are beaten by Wesley who has 58. [/spoiler]

Then it is wrong and is not supported by the source material.

At least not where Wesley is concerned. The others are debatable.

Wesley had an anti-charisma field. Every scene he was in made me wish for a Gorn to appear and bite his head off.

Oh come on, that's not nice.

I wouldn't do that to the poor Gorn.

You are right.

Nobody should have a mouth full of shit.

It bears mentioning that Warrior Jesus himself was known for killing a few hundred klinks in their sleep. This was deemed honourable and a display of warrior virtues, namely cunning.

if they cant post a proper watch schedule, they deserve to be zapped, kapowed and kasplated in their beds

If they can't detect a cloaked ship, they deserve to have their jimmies disrupted.

I suppose Klingon ships have always had a submarine feel about them, even before the got cloaking tech. Silent, precision killers.

In fairness, it is fucking easy for the Federation to see through a cloak, various Enterprises would do it all the fucking time. With all of their sensors and science gear the Fed had a really easy time detecting when there was a cloaked ship floating about, even if they couldn't pin down it's exact location.

SFB and FASA have them as Space Mongols. They're generally faster and more manoeuvreable than other races, and have long range, accurate weapons in their disruptors. A common tactic is to plink at medium-long range until you drop a shield and cripple some systems, and then go for the knife kill with overloaded disruptors and boarding parties.
I imagine having a cloaking device would enhance that, letting them reposition and disengage easily if they get in trouble.

Romulans, on the other hand, have that submarine feel: their heavy weapon, the plasma torpedo, takes ages to charge but is horrendously destructive at close range. Hence the cloak-close to minimal range-fire the rape launcher-coak and echarge cycle.

But it's something you have to actively look for. So if you have no reason to suspect that the Klingons are perpetrating a clever ruse then they can still fuck you up.

OK, here's a hypothetical for you.

How would you make Voyager good?
(Disallowed: Blowing up Neelixes ship with him on it(Too easy). Turning the whole series into Warship Voyager (Too obvious.Still good though).)

My suggestions? First off, some actual continuity. Second. keep Chakotay as a Maquis. Third, give Ensign Kim a gorram promotion once in a while. Fourth - an eventual Mutiny episode. Fifth - Redefine the Borg Queen not as the Queen Bee of the Borg Hive, but as the Avatar of the Collective Will of the Borg. Sixth - Have Neelix be abandoned after the events of "Fair Trade" as punishment for the actions of that episode. Seventh - have an actual Mirror Universe episode, rather than the Not!Mirror episode "Living Witness"

from a previous thread

A mutiny committed to at that point. Have it all rumbling under the surface between the two crews as a fragile peace occasionally put under strain up till then. Psyco dude bashing people over the head with a wrench almost breaks the peace with all sides pointing fingers.

The Maquis crew doing covert exercises and practice in the holodeck "just in case" Tuvok and co doin anti-mutiny exercises in the holodeck "just in case" neither owning up to it. That sort of thing.

Then Janeway murders a crewman in cold blood and the Federation crew just watch.

Chakotay . Decides that "Just in case" has happened.

Next episode is a stun gun and capture battle for key sections of the ship. Neither side wants to kill too many of the other side because no side is sure exactly what the bare minimum number of crew it is to operate this new breed of ship. No side dare let the psyco out of the box. Neelix and Kes barricade themselves in their ship and decide to wait it out. Doctor treats all injuries regardless of side and just wants them to either stop hurting each other or do it quietly. Told mostly from the POV of the non-Federation side. flashbacks where appropriate.

Ends with a stand off on the bridge with Chakotay and crew on one side and Janeway and crew on other side. All weapons drawn, all hopped up on adrenaline.

Next episode starts with Tuvok sitting alone in a half lit cell in the Brig. Pieced together with flashbacks showing the Federation side of the conflict with an increasingly zealous and erratic captain going increasingly Ahab.

Culminates on the bridge with the stand off. Tuvok notices that the Captains phaser is the only one not set to stun.

Tuvok shoots the captain in the back of the neck, instant death even on the stun setting.

Captain Chakotay at the end of the episode visits the small and alone and broken looking Vulcan. and just asks "Why?"

"It was the only logical thing left to do"

But then I would also have had it where, as they go on, they pick up increasing numbers of hangers on, the lost, the outcast and wanderers. Eventually Voyager being the head of a small mismatched armada.

I agree with all that, plus:
Highlight and build off the logistical difficulties and the lack of replacement crew. For example have them recruit and train aliens, showing the suicidal impracticality of maintaining and teaching Starfleet etchic under the circumstances.

Have some space politics with Janeway having to negotiate for passage and supplies, instead of lolKazons every few episodes.

Map out the gorram quadrant and have consistent alien races and states, instead of aliums of the week.

Have Janeway make some progress with the gorram aliens, eventually forming a tenuous alliance to face the Borg.

Have every one of them get borged in the end as Janeway condemns the entire quadrant to assimilation in a huge final battle, only to gain access to the transwarp network and escape.

Step 1: Consistent. Fucking. Characterization. Bi-polar Janeway comes to mind.

Step 2: Have Voyager slowly fall apart over time. I mean, fuck, you're not getting -any- significant maintenance done for -years-. Things are bound to break, especially the parts you can't just replicate-and-manhandle-into-place but need an actual starbase to check over (warp coils, phaser arrays, etc.)

Step 3: Keep Neelix as his pilot-version. The strangely charismatic, if slightly in-over-his-head jack-of-all-trades that isn't afraid to lie and deceive to get what he wants.

Step 4: Keep the Borg what they should be: Pants-shittingly terrifying implacable monsters with a reasoning beyond human comprehension.

Step 5: More fucking alien crew members! You can't fucking tell me that there isn't anyone apart from Kes and Neelix that find Voyager's story interesting enough to want to sign on with them.

Nah, Janeway was one fucking hell of a character when written by a good writer. Offing her is a bad idea, mostly because she did nail the 'protective mama bear' really damn well.

This is why I love SFB and FASA, the various factions actually feel different. Something I feel that was lost post-tng in most games... and the shows.

Alright, keep the Janeway as mother bear.

Instead have her as the original head of security who, after the rebellion against Cpt. Ahab, gets promoted to captain as the most senior Starfleet officer qualified for the job.

She keeps Chakotay as 2nd in command of ship as a show of good faith to his old motley crew and also because she would probably have done the same thing in his boots.

Everything else you wrote is a holy shit hell yes.

With the exception that Kes would have been a Telaxian (?) or something else other than legally a child.

I would also have kept count on how many photon torpedoes they had. They said in the first season that they had 30 something and they must have used at least twice that over the whole series.

Laos have it take longer in-universe to get home than 7 years or whatever it was. Somewhere in the region of 30 maybe.

The lack of visible aging put down to superior federation medical knowledge and longevity treatments.

I'm currently listening to the Greatest Generation Podcast, an irreverent retrospection on Star Trek the Next Generation by two guys who are kind of embarrassed that they have a Star Trek podcast. If you like stupid jokes and ST:TNG, it's pretty great.

Put it in TOS era, Jeri Ryan in a miniskirt uniform is my only argument.

Certainly. They also feel like actual navies, with compromises, design and doctrinal flaws, and plain lowest bidder syndrome in a lot of cases. In later games they tend to use cookie cutter design of 'race X is optimized for tactic Y'.

>so our fleet relies on speed and agility, and we have good long range weapons
>here are some propositions for our next warship, which should we pick
>THIS HUGE PONDEROUS BATTLESHIP WITH SIXTY DISRUPTORS AND FIVE HUNDRED MARINES
>QAPLA!

If you think like a Soviet military procurement asshole, it makes absolute sense.

...

It's TOS/SFB klinks, of course they do.

Meanwhile...
>so we have a huge amount of Klingon hulls and some weapons
>they're actually decent ships, unlike ours, and don't need to rely on space submarine tactics or weapons that eat all the reactor power for a week before firing
>I don't know, Tribune, they lack a certain something
>I know exactly what you mean, Tribune
>PLASMA TORPEDOES
>PLASMA TORPEDOES

It does in general. You've got the 'core' of the fleet, which is basically 'lol, keep shooting, see if I care', keeping the enemy busy, while the raiders go around and pick off ships, whittling them down slowly.

That isn't how SFB klinks work, and is in fact lampooned in the relevant expansions for both SFB and FASATrek, with a demand for ever bigger battleships nearly bankrupting the state. They even sell one to the Romulans (who love their grand scale and immediately 'refit' it) to keep funding the program.
I find this both amusing and interesting, as well as a stark contrast to the latter eras and games.

as i said 4 threads ago:

have it be like early NuBSG,
Voyager is just the lead ship in a fleet made up of all the ships the Caketaker had dragged out there,
old and new aliens,
tension in the fleet between old enemies and cultural clashes between peoples that had never met before

do more with the smegging mentalists of the Talaxian Fleet in Exile. seriously, they had the fucking stones to join up with a fucking shuttle in an attack on the most powerful ship in the region while probably on the run from the Hakkonians without any home base or real support structure

also, Elite Force 1 needs to be canon (with adjustments to the plot as per the changes to the show)

How exactly did TOS era captains wear such tight pants with perfect legs everywhere.

Forcefields.

Good point sir, have a captain.

I'd watch that. I'd watch the shit out of that.

Also would voyager not have been quicker heading for the Gamma quadrant wormhole than directly back to earth? They wouldn't have known about the size and power of the dominion.

That's basically my main problem with Voyager's overarching plot as well. The distance to the wormhole has to be way less than straight back to the Federation.

That depends on when the Delta and Gamma quadrants are in relation to the Alpha Quadrant. They could be on opposite sides for example.

Right next to each other, with Delta farther from the Earth. The real question is, why would the Voyager have the relevant navigational data?

>The real question is, why would the Voyager have the relevant navigational data

Because they literally just stopped off in DS9 before leaving to the badlands and probably picked it up there?

Also, the SFU map despite being from the objectively superior setting isn't remotely canon. Anyone got a TNG era galaxy map?

The flying fuck is that map?

Here's a map of Voyager's route home with the Bajoran Wormhole shown. Looks like a marginally shorter journey.

A lot less than marginal. Two-thirds, if not half the distance. There is literally no logical reason for Voyager to not have made a bee-line for the Bajoran wormhole.

SFU universe. Its both cool and very odd at the same time.

I just realized I said SFU instead of SFB, thus ending up with Star Fleet Universe Universe.

I will now distract you with something.

Looking at the grids it does appear a lot shorter. Direct to earth is 8 blocks down and 2 blocks across, making it about 8.25 blocks(ie 8250 light years)

By comparison it's 6 across and 3 down to the game quadrant wormhole. That ends up at about 6710 light years.

So we're looking at a difference of roughly 1500 light years of a journey from the get go.

...

Not fat enough for a believable Kirk, esp. given that she's wearing the "hide my potbelly uniform from 3rd season.

That 23rd century defiant would look better without the nose, and a different bridge, and I feel there is something else that could have been done with the nacelles.

>a quadrant is 1/4 of an octant, or 1/32 of the galaxy.

Nice stretch, have another.

See
The SFU uses Octants and Sectors instead of Quadrants. The aren't allowed to use anything after TOS and TAS.

I generally agree with these, except:
>Second. keep Chakotay as a Maquis.
I wouldn't do that. The Maquis are something VOY actually did pretty well, I thought. Their whole thing was fighting spoonheads, only fighting Starfleet when Starfleet went after them. While many weren't Starfleet before, Chuckles was, so he would slip right back into his uniform as soon as he realized there were no cardies to fight, and that Janeway needed him to keep the non-Starfleeters in line long enough for them to get used to the Starfleet (or at least Voyager) life.
>Have Neelix be abandoned after the events of "Fair Trade" as punishment for the actions of that episode.
That's not how Starfleet rolls, and anyways it would be a bad idea to leave a disgruntled, dishonest alien that knows all about Voyager and her plans just in some hostile area of space. Throw him in the brig for a while, sure.

What they really should have done with Neelix was make him (and Kes) actual crew members like they did with the maquis, with actual uniforms and everything. Seven too, along with any other stray ayys they picked up along the way.

>Map out the gorram quadrant and have consistent alien races and states, instead of aliums of the week.
That all made sense though. The Federation, one of the bigger known space empires, can be crossed in a few weeks, tops. Voyager would be just passing through most places.

>The Federation, one of the bigger known space empires, can be crossed in a few weeks, tops.

At maximum warp by a well-supplied ship that doesn't need to stop.

I have a yearning to run one of those autistic actual-war-room hexfests using Federation and Empire, SFB, and either FASATrek or Prime Directive. The players would be in command of a small squadron of frigates, or a single CC, with the results of their combat actions, discoveries, and negotiations influencing a larger conflict or being the key deciding factor of a local struggle.
Now, how would one solve the logistics of it online? SFB is kind of hard to run online due to the impulse mechanic, though I suppose a countdown system and a pre-written rolling script could be implemented to hurry things along.

23rd century Defiant would look even more like a romulan bird of prey.
Because that's basically the shape, size and so on.

according to maps shown on screen (and Star Charts, and taking into account gridsize variation) it was about the same distance from Ocampa to Earth as to the Wormhole, which means slightly shorter to get to known space

Federation probably isn't as big as you think it is.

Unless that's a time travelling defiant. It is pretty easy to travel through time in trek after all.

>New France
The horror. And no, I don't suppose it is, or that there even is a canon source that gives travel times and distances between various planets and empires.

some of star charts (where that map is from) is extrapolated from stated travel times, distances and the locations of identified real stars

the Federation is only explicitly outsized by the (full) Krenim Empire and the Borg with the Dominion implied to be larger

>That blob of Federation space cut off from the 'main' one by the Klingons and Romulans

Federation, stahp, what are you doing?!

>confusing 2d for 3dpd