Warhammer 40k General

>war convo
What?
Are Daemons really that powerful? I thought Chaos was pretty weak right now.

CSM sucks, KDK is okayish, renegades&heretics are decent and Daemons are good.

We played a 6000 per side apocalypse game for the first time last night. Primary takeaway: Superchicken is not to be fucked with.

Cool.
I do already have a fair few Daemons. I've been collecting models for years but never played a game before last night (using a friend's army). Got totally ass fucked but I'm hooked on the game now.

Here's what I've got in terms of Daemons right now (single units each):
Bloodletters
Horrors
Flamers
Plague Bearers
Exalted Seeker Chariot
Soul Grinder
Lord of Change

What to add/not bother with?

Oh I also have 3 Bloodcrushers. I don't think that's enough for a full unit.

Specific demons lists can be stupid. Mass summoned free shit, psyker phase domination, nearly army wide 2++ rerollable are all possible.

Ugh forgot one, also have a generic Daemon Prince.
There's probably more I'm forgetting. Like I said, I've been collecting for a really long time and it's easy to forget about things I have.

Daemons aren't, but spamming summoning is, and Daemons can overflow the board with it in like 2 turns. It's hilarious and OP as fuck.

War Convo's pretty good too, all that Plasma's gonna do something, plus 300 pts. of free wargear and relics is nothing to sneeze at.

Get rid of everything that's not tzeentch.

You win by drowning the enemy in summoned psykers that genere psychic dice for summoning psykers that summon psykers and improve invulnerable saves.

Tzeench I want to make a Daemon army just for the stupidity of Summoning while summoning summoners that summon.

For what army?

Hmm, any advice for me on Daemons if I don't want to do the summoning thing? Will I have to pick a different army?
I just wanna stand up to my buddy's armies, not drown him in bullshit and make it not fun to play against me.

What's a war convo

Special group Admech formation, dominated competitive stuff back when you could embark in battle brothers drop pods.

Pic related

Summoning and spamming psykers to buff invulnerable saver is the power play for daemons.

The issue with daemons is they have only three units with actual shooting attacks so it's down to psychic shooting and melee.

Slaanesh chariots make for very destructive missiles, though like missiles they can't take hits themselves, their troops are good at tearign into quality units.

Nurgle are decent at the take and hold game, their cloud of flies makes them tough against shooting, especially when in cover, but not as tough in melee unless you get a Herald with the Feel No Pain Loci to buff.

Khorne... are better used in KDK armies.

Are you fucking kidding me? Free upgrades?!

Well you can do summoning, but play with restriccion, like only one summon per turn.

what would a strong generic KDK list look like at 1k pts? i really have no idea, i'm new

whatever army. i.e. something that doesn't revolve on vehicle spam or whatever

Well there's shitloads of fluffy and competitive lists you could run. You need to pick an army first.

Or a theme at least.

honestly, I wouldn't worry about the amount of certain marks of armour you have in your squads, I'm doing a star phantoms army with almost exclusively mkIV, mostly because I'm not a fan of mkVII
also
>that gayboy stuttering shit
stop that

So im out of the loop when it comes to Deathwatch.

How filth are they?

Yes

Soon™

lol this
you people fucking stutter over text and its fucking bizarre

>Takeaway superchicken
Sounds delicious

eldar, space marines, and wolves also have formations that give free equipment.

juggerlord, hounds, cultists for easy killing, skullcannon, bikers with melta

I find it funny that people are so ass-blasted about free stuff when _ALL_ the formations give you free stuff in terms of bonuses.

I play SoB, our formation are apocalypse only.

Tend to forget the broken shit.

gorepack, skill cannons, Lord on juggernaut with the axe of fuck you, 35 point bloodthirster

SoB Formation.

3 full squads of 10 Repentias, 3 Penitent.

Gives re-roll to feel no pain. Can only do it once during the game due to FNP is an Act of Faith.

Yeah sure.

Salt aside I personally think Formation should stay as Apocalypse only, or at least an agreement between the players to use them in normal games, same goes for SH, GC and Flyers.

Since unless you came prepare to face a particular Formation, SH, GC and/or Flyers in a normal game, some armies simply auto loose. Mainly due to unbalance and underpowered codex.

wanna know a secret? for those armies it's not the most broken stuff

hell, my chaos daemon formations aren't so much broken as they make the army msu heavy, great at capping objectives and a modified warp storm.

But... there isnt any normal formations for SoB. Stop making shit up.

But I kinda agree with you. Formations should cost something if they are powerful and have more drawbacks. Riptidewing is a prime example of bad design. There is just no point at all to not take it if you are wielding 3 riptides.

>All the guard formation are shit

There 3 formation, Apocalypse only.

Angelic Host:
Celestin and 2-5 Seraphim
FORMATION RESTRICTIONS
All Seraphim Squads must have 10 models.
SPECIAL RULES:
Fearless
Victory Or Martyrdom:
All models in this formation re-roll failed invulnerable saving throws.
Winged Deliverance:
If the unit is held in Strategic Reserve, they can Deep Strike at the start of any friendly turn. All weapons in the formation have the Shred special rule on the turn they Deep Strike.

Basically gives their AoF without rolling. Also it gives Invulnerable re-roll to Celestin, since Seraphim already re-roll invulnerable save.

>There aren't any NORMAL formations for SoB.
Apo formations dont count. And apocalypse is an old, unusable book anyway.

paint your shit faggit

Indeed. I just find funny that formation SoB basically give them things they already have.

Angelic Host and Repentant Host are simply stupid.

Purge Squadron is silly but at least the special attacks are cool.

So Daemons of Tzeentch list with lots of focus on summoning then, to sum up?

this might be the gayest model i've ever seen

It is a random list, can be fun, but if you over summon it can get frustrating to other player.

And well you need 30+ models to run it.

What did you just say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Planet of Sorcerers Super Secret College for Smart People and Awesome Psychic Powers.

>dude, let me in! i'm a fairy!
>don't you believe in fairies?

Eh, I'm probably bad enough at the game that it won't get too frustrating. I mentioned earlier that I just played my first game last night using my friend's models.
They run Tau, Necrons, Eldar, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights with enough heavy hitters to wipe out entire squads easily.
I'm now picturing playing a take & hold game desperately summoning hordes of Daemons while I get the shit pounded out of me by Skyrays and Doomsday Arcs.

>>Tau, Necrons, Eldar, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights

One of these things is not like the other things.

so, are the marines on foot themselves not good? cause i wanna run some berzerkers or something

2 of these things are not like the other 3 and vice versa, user. I'm not sure what you mean.

How do i play against an Imperial knight at 500pts as imperial guard?

You pack your shit and find a better opponent.

Tau, Necrons, Eldar and Space Wolves are all competitive-tier armies.

Would anyone complain about me using Raptor Chapter tactics in a Sons of Corax detachment, using the raven guard relics from the Kau'yon/AoD supplements?

Marines on foot are never good. Bolters do nothing under the current rules. You can play through a dozen games and never cause a single unsaved wound with a bolter. Melee units never make it into melee, so you might as well take them off the table as soon as they deploy. There are a few exceptions like highly mobile superheavies and monsters with melee weapons, but these will get shot to death because you have to get within 4" of an enemy to charge or else the dice will fail you. Even if you do make the charge you'll get shot up by overwatch. If you're playing against Tau then the whole army will get to fire overwatch at each unit that tries to charge, and that will happen every single time you charge. That's before you roll to see if the charge was successful or not. Then on the rare occasion that berzerkers make it into melee they're still causing very little damage.

the more i learn about this game the more i'm convinced the assault phase needs a complete rework

>i will avoid everyone that pose some difficulty like a complete asshole

what could possibly go wrong!

>Marines on foot are never good. Bolters do nothing under the current rules.
Speaking of... Raptors allow bolters and their variants to be heavy 1 RENDING.

He's right, even as Tau at 500 points I'd struggle to kill a Jump pack MC.

By taking command squad with meltabomb and then as my Demolition Veterans that you can shove into a list. Then tell your opponent to not be a complete bellend and play a fair list.

and Deathwatch can have heavy 2 bolters with 30" range that are functionally rending and wound any non-gargantuan creature on a rerollable 2+. With the right psychic shenanigans you can ignore cover and LOS. But I think we're pretty far past the basic idea of "bolters" at this point. And I'd still rather have grav cannons.

Only way to have a semblance of a fair game is to 100% tailor all of your army for anti armour. Last I checked list tailoring isn't fun for anyone. But if you're going that route, proxy a Cerberus and hope you can get the shock pulse off. Or take a shadowsword. There's loads you can do but what's the point in having two SHs pointed at each other.

Forgot to mention: also precision shots

if gw wanted to make 40k good they'd license the bolt action rules

>And I'd still rather have grav cannons
Why, when you can just go unbound for those Wraithknights?

I mean, you are being a faggot anyway, why not go all the way?

Alright, i will ask the guy if i can bring a shadowsword, i do have a baneblade.

You can say everyone who uses grav cannons, wraithknights, riptides or stormsurges is a faggot. But when I show up to the local store, that's what the players bring. I'm not going to drive 100 miles for a game and I'm not gonna play in some 40k neckbeard's cat-piss-smelling basement, so I can join the local meta or I can stay at home and paint.

can I do anything useful with a terminator lord's cadre in a nurgle daemons list?

>stay at home and paint.

Grab a pint and wait for this shitty meta to blow over.

Great, I'll just kick back and enjoy the even shittier fluff. Can't wait to see what comes out of this "oh noes all of the eldar souls are dead forever yet the plot still won't advance in any meaningful way and the status quo is exactly what it's always been" bullshit.

have you considered playing a different game?

changing the status quo of the game's lore isn't good for business because people don't like it when the setting is ripped apart (ie end times, age of sigmar)

Rules-wise, I would because the Raptors are not Raven Guard nor are they using Raven Guard chapter tactics.

>nor are they using Raven Guard chapter tactics.
They did back when the FW chapter rules were released.

They don't really go by what's competitive, they just pick fluff they like.

It does.

I know, dude. Daemons player has conned painter dude into his greater daemons but can't be bothered to paint his eight thousand horrors. At least prime them.

Tau guy painted his entire third hammerhead over the course of this game.

Knight guy of course has his three models painted.

Necron guy makes slow progress as he bullies his wife into painting his stuff.

I'm the yellow things. Im only missing that achilles and a couple marines I think.

Collectively we need to finish our terrain.

I don't understand why anyone still tries arguing against this.

The rule LITERALLY says "as per the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic" - The text is merely quoting the chapter tactic. So when the rule changed, then this did too - the text is just outdated.

If you email Forgeworld they'll tell you you can use Raptors tactics with Raven relics.

That's some pretty serious heresy you're shooting off about the emperor's perfect infantry weapon. I don't know what your meta is like but I have been loving using the boltgun and heavy bolter portfolio in a sternhammer. But I guess if you play with assholes who use nothing but T8 wraith gargantuan bullshit I can see where you're coming from.

I think my point is don't play with douchebags?

okay I'll just wait until a 30k group starts up in my area, then bolters and heavy bolters will be back on the table.

That's what the other user was suggesting. Stay home and wait for the rules to get better. But hypothetically, in some conceivable universe in which you decide to play a game, the choices are bring your grav (or equivalent "faggot" tool) or auto-lose.

I guess if you can get 70 bolter marines firing on the same riptide at 12" range then you might kill it.

The lore does change, though. It progresses in little baby steps. That's why it's fucking stupid to give some minor sideshow faction a massive fluff event that by all logic should completely change the outlook and direction of an entire mainstream faction.

Seconding this. I remember one user posting an email from FW confirming the use of the new rule.

Holy shit. Do you have a screencap? If so, thats fucking rad!

They're terribly fun in Kill-teams. I'm trying to assemble a bunch of scouts for my next kill-team, which will take much better advantage of the whole 'rending bolters' shennanigans. Also, Heralds of Ruin list time? I'd like some critique for this list, and to see other people's kill teams:

Raptors Tactics
> Team Leader
Sergeant: 24 points
- EBR Pattern Boltgun(Raptors Relic)
- Targetters
> Core
10x Scouts: 130 points
- Camo Cloaks
- Bolters
- 2x Heavy Bolters
> Special
3x Sternguard Veterans: 81 points
- 3x Targetters

For the most part, my Sergeant and his sternguard veterans all act as Sneeki Beeki Snipers, with the sergeant being the beekiest of snipers. Sergeant and Sternguard setup in locations where they can best be stationary snipers, in order to support a metric shitload of infiltrating scouts.

>Perfect infantry weapon

Reminder an admech troop choice has the Galvanic Rifle which is a strictly better bolter with 6 more range AP4 and precision shot.

>pirate pdfs of rulebooks and codexes
>buy as many of your models off of ebay second hand/pre assembled as you can
>chinaman for resin models
>if you ever need to buy new, use discount sites like wayland games

Any other tips for saving money on 40k guys?

>chinaman for resin models
>chinaman for all models
*Ftfy

Also, learn to make your own molds.

>all models
You then have to deal with more imperfections because of casting however, and resin tends to be more brittle than plastic also.

Is this true?

I really want this to be true

are there any good novels involving ahzek ahriman? i was wanting to read more about him because he seems interesting to me.

Have you tried the novel series you posted the cover from? Ahriman's not in very many books.

Off the top of my head: Thousand Sons (Horus Heresy), Atlas Infernal (as an antagonist), the third Dawn of War novel (avoid), and the Ahriman series by John French. That's about it.

If you could remove one army from the game forever, which one would it be?

i got interested in him since i used him for a game, so much power behind the cost of a land raider.

tau, fuckin blue webs.