/wodg/+/cofd/ Chronicles of The World of Darkness of the General Thread

How is the fiction in the firestorm chronicle anthology? Will it get me pumped for prom 2e? Is most of it repeated in the rulebook?

It's fucking excellent.... for the most part. Some of it is bland and some of it lacks direction, but all in all it's a wonderful Promethean piece of fiction

None of the anthology fiction is repeated elsewhere. For any of the anthologies.

downloading Promethean, what should i expect?

Fagness

Well that is just the basics. What else.

Had you read first edition?

So since we're all anonymous here, who in this thread is actually some sort of queer identity?

Is being a [s]omniwhore[/s] bisexual considered queer?

Zir pronouns

A failure worse than 1e and generally a whole lot of SJW idiocy.

Lesbian transwoman, but I've honestly never been that interested in Promethean, because it reads like being forced to change your fundamental nature because the rest of the world doesn't like you. And I don't want to play a character who's trans, as I despise being such and would never wish it on anyone else.

>It reads like being forced to change because people don't like you
>literally a quest to understand who you really are and then become accepted by society

I'm queer and I've been consistently disgusted with OPP's attempts to appeal to my sexuality while being hostile to demographics who aren't mine these days.

Probably a transwoman but in some nasty denial about it.

But that's not what Promethean is about. It's a game where you build an identity for yourself, which has always spoken to me. You're not changing who you are to make the world like you, you're deciding who you are in order to find some personal peace.

But to do that, you need to transform into a normal human, because your original nature causes suffering to all around you (and people will try to do terrible things to you, but it's not their fault). I'm sure that White Wolf didn't intend it to sound like a gay conversion allegory, but it feels that way to me.

Nope. While I'm an ally, just a straight guy.

>game literally has 'building an identity for yourself ' as its central mechanic
>you take this as a conversion metaphor

SOCIAL > PHYSICAL > MENTAL

...

-Vampires get so old that they lose the concept of Gender at some point
-Werewolves shapeshift so much they can literally become gender-fluid
-Mages eschew the mortal trappings of labels and genders because they are part of the lie
-Promethean is all about deciding who the fuck you are
-Demons can wear different covers and become confused in their identity
-Beast could be a buff boy football player with the soul of Medusa

I'm pretty sure OPP doesn't want heteronormativity to be a thing in their games at this point. And that's fine

What about hunters?

>And that's fine

Not all of us are raging, obnoxious hypocrites who hate everything that isn't the same as us.

Cisnormativity*

Non-Heteronormativity would be if every game had something advocating for you to have same-sex relationships/otherwise not be heterosexual, which isn't what you're talking about

>-Vampires get so old that they lose the concept of Gender at some point
I really, really hope that's not a hard and fast rule. Nonbinary genders are all well and good, but don't force them on anyone.

It's not, I think it was mentioned at some point in B&S that some low-humanity vampires lose that concept but that's usually after a long torpor

Well, then we run into the opposite problem, i.e. linking genderfluidity with monstrosity.

Honestly, I wouldn't include anything special related to nonbinary gender for any specific splat. It happens in humans, it can happen in supernaturals too. I suppose Demon could be an exception because of Cover, but the Vampire and Mage versions especially just seem odd. Gender roles may be part of the Lie, but gender is just part of who you are.

>some *low-humanity* vampires [become genderqueer]
>everything about Beast
>everything about The Pristine Order of the Auric Chalice is just a silly caricature also

Is OPP just determined to be a bunch of shit-stirrers? Is this how they get money, the conceptual equivalent of clickbait? They did it so fucking well in Demon and now they just can't help but fuck up these complex issues in everything else.

Not genderfluidity. I said that the vampire loses the very concept of gender from itself. Not exactly the same thing.

>-Vampires get so old that they lose the concept of Gender at some point
Citation needed.
There's fuckold vampires who are still clearly female or male. The crone and longinius for two.

>all this zir nonsense

Not in my game. Also, "gender" is bullshit and most languages even have separate words for gender and sex.

it's just macfarland
it's not obnoxious in any of the other books

These are options, not a sure thing, or even common. Calm your mantits.

>These are options, not a sure thing, or even common.
or rare or things that happen at all

In your game, why not. Honestly, no one will bat an eye if your game is some binary wonderland. Mine are. I just don't have any players who would care of a trans person showed up.

But acting like it is against the lore is silly.

How do you make mental skills interesting in play? Talking about Politics, Computer, Science and Drive?

I know drive is physical shut up

>People who are essentially stuck in a permanent state forever are going to have loose concepts of gender
Are you retarded? That's not at all how vampires work. In Old Vamp you had clans for that. In most cases, Vampires are the hardest to change because they favor rigid and set mindsets. It's why older vampires have a fucking hard time adjusting to fucking technology.

It's explicitly against the lore that all older vampires would just be okay with it as written. That your players are cool with trans characters is perfectly cool it's your game have at it. But stop trying to change system to make it like your way is the right way. It's obnoxious.

One good way is to use something similar to the door system for social combat. You can use politics over time to set up a complicated political deal with different favor s and such. Or use computer to create and design computer programs

Use them?
Computers lets you do so much. Politics should be used as a pseudo contacts, gotta find the right person and all. Science is literally Occult but without the magic.

And Drive is used for escapes.

Angelina Jolie sure let herself go.

Except vampires get stuck in their ways, while losing themselves. They lose memories and ideas to the fog of time as they grow ancient, and everyone around them dies.

Losing a core aspect of yourself, like forgetting you are a dude instead of a chick, would be perfectly in line with that if the character lived a life that made it made sense. Like say you were a pampered and effeminate poof your whole 600 years. You realize now most poofs are chicks. You just forget that yours is a make poofiness and start identifying as a poof instead of a he or she.

They still don't lose who they fucking are. That analogy doesn't work because the fog of time doesn't hit you that deep.

Is there anything stopping you from making a Promethean out of a fursuit?

They're roughly person size and shape.

The rest of your group, in most scenarios, I'm sure

Op thinks differently, and they sort of set the canon

The Fog of Ages doesn't exist in 2e. What the fuck are all of you on about?

Correct answer

Really? That's a weird thing to get rid of.

Well then, I dunno man

I have two questions.
1. How good/bad is Chronicles stand alone core? The reviews on Drivethue are extremely mixed. For context my only 2e book is Vampire and I think the crunch is better than 1e for the most part, I plan on running a Vampire game and want to know if Chronicles would be a good addition to my toolbox.
2. As we're talking about it does anyone know where the term cis came from? Also is it pronounced kiss or sis? As my earliest exposer to the word was people listing sexual fetishs and lifestyles I at first associated it with a misspelling of sissy and have never really disassociate the two so I have this nagging little voice in my head saying someone is giggling about how they got the word for most people (I know we shouldn't say normal) means people who like being dressed up as the other sex. Please provide evidence that this isn't the case I don't want to think this poorly of other people.

Play an all Maiden's Blood Sisterhood in an LA college during the 80's/90's.

1) It's not bad. Has some stuff that got/gets trimmed from the core rules recreated in the line books for space reasons.

2) cis- is a chemistry thing, the opposite of trans-. It has no connotations of normalcy in that sense, which is why it was chosen.

Anyone in Rochester NY looking for a rl game?

Not really. The only thing it did was keep people from saying "I remember this thing from 1000 years ago for an arbitrary reason", which someone with Eidetic Memory could probably remember just fine, but nobody else would be able to remember clearly anyways.

It's pronounced like sis.
I mostly remember this because a black woman made a joke about how she's a cis, "and I don't mean in the sista way" on a news channel thing once.

>1. How good/bad is Chronicles stand alone core? The reviews on Drivethue are extremely mixed. For context my only 2e book is Vampire and I think the crunch is better than 1e for the most part, I plan on running a Vampire game and want to know if Chronicles would be a good addition to my toolbox.

I think the problem is you can't really PLAY anything with the core alone, it's meant to be the groundwork you apply a splat on top of. Sure, you could play as regular dudes trying to do something, but why not play Hunter in that case? That is, unless something's changed since I last checked.

So the Neumarian is a Scelesti now? Has he switched to a Ziggurat?
Also, have you guys made mechanics for the anti-paths of the abyss? What would be the Path tools be?

>the gamedev's word is law! If Herr Matt says der sky is green then it is!
Prometheans have an identity from day one, the game says that this identity is malformed and corrosive and needs to be swapped out for a healthy one that will make you be a normal person instead of a Promethean. Are you really so blind you can't see how people can take against this?

1) The core is good, it has some interesting rules for things like Investigation and Chases that aren't reprinted in most of the line-specific cores. None of it is necessary, but it's definitely useful as a GM.

2) It's "sis" like sister, and yea, like other people were saying, it's a real, academic term, not slang. "cis-" is a latin prefix meaning "on the/on this side of", which is the opposite of the prefix "trans-" which means "across from/on the other side of."

I think he's been for a while, really.

Left-Hand Path already has rules for Abyssal Joinings, and what it does to your Path rules.

So what does the godmachine actually do? Like what are its goals?

Thanks, I knew my brain was looking for reasons to feel I was a victim and that a large community wouldn't conspire to sicker at an inside joke but I was unpopular in childhood and have a reactive mistrust of groups.
Got it.
So I'm fine as I'm supplementing another splat then. What does it add if I already have Blood and Smoke? I like paying for things so companies have an incentive to make things I like but £35 (about, I'm not sure what Brexit has left us with) is close to my limit for a book.

Making human fight over the tiniest detail such as pronouns in an RPG or what toppings to put on game night's pizza

1. Make infrastructure
2. Make infrastructure network more efficient
3. Goto 1

>it's a real, academic term, not slang. "cis-" is a latin prefix meaning "on the/on this side of", which is the opposite of the prefix "trans-" which means "across from/on the other side of."

Which is ironic as all hell.

A standalone mortals game is plenty fun. It works for Call of Cthulhu, Fear Itself, and The X-Files, why not here?

Because Aspel is a special snowflake

>What does it add if I already have Blood and Smoke?

That's Vampire the Requiem 2E. All splat corebooks assume you're familiar with the setting and basic rules from the main corebook.

It started out in Chemistry mostly, but then got cooped by gender studies.

Non-hunter mortal games are common, and fun. It is max horror.

Maybe your faggy characters do

...How is it ironic?

I HAD THE BREW SHE HAD THE CHRONIC

In Promethean you are literally trying to fix your dysphoria by transitioning. Being a human in the "wrong" or socially unacceptable ways is still completely possible, just like it's possible to be a girl but like MMA and RPGs.

It's not that the gamedev's word is law, it's that you're working off of a fundamentally misunderstood knowledge of what the game means. It's not about becoming straight. It's about finding and obtaining inner peace by becoming the person--literally THE PERSON--that you want to be. It serves as a gay conversion allegory about as much as any other "finding yourself" story would.

Really, focusing on the "a Promethean has to stop being a Promethean" part is failing to acknowledge it *as* a metaphor; being a Promethean is a state that maps to something that makes you feel uncomfortable with yourself. Disquiet is how others react to your depression or other issue; Wasteland of course is the mess you make. The Pilgrimage is working towards self-help. New Dawn is coming to terms with who you are and reaching that moment of self-apotheosis.

Cis isn't (solely) a chemistry thing, it's a Greek prefix, like trans-.
>Cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning "on this side of", which is an antonym for the Latin-derived prefix trans-, meaning "across from" or "on the other side of". This usage can be seen in the cis–trans distinction in chemistry, the cis–trans or complementation test in genetics, in Ciscaucasia (from the Russian perspective) and in the ancient Roman term Cisalpine Gaul (i.e., "Gaul on this side of the Alps"). In the case of gender, cis- is used to refer to the alignment of gender identity with assigned sex.[5]

So in theory is it 'evil'? Like is there any reason to fight it if you know about it?

Very cute, but metaphors are tricksy things that can turn and bite you if you don't handle them right. People who don't transition are at best misguided and at worst evil then?

Generally the only people who know about it are Demons And they have a very compelling reason to fight it - it's actively using it's cosmic powers to hunt them down and kill them

It does things that are horrible (if a particular piece of Infrastructure is made more efficient by just letting people die of radiation poisoning, it will do that without hesitation) and has the ultimate goal of enslaving humanity as a whole (by ensnaring it all in ever more Infrastructure), so I guess it depends on how much you care about things like that.

It's a big dumb thing that manipulates people into doing dumb things so it can do even bigger and dumber things that greases its wheels with human blood. Of course its evil.

People who don't come to terms with every bit of who they are usually end up either miserable or straight up dicks.

>and has the ultimate goal of enslaving humanity as a whole

Demon propaganda without a page citation

Ah, so people who don't come to terms with themselves on your terms are dicks and are probably monstrous cannibals. How tolerant

It self-propagates. That is literally the only thing it can be counted on to do.

What else would you call "every square mile of the planet is now Infrastructure that you either help it along or get removed lethally" as an endgoal?

>endgoal

Who says that's it's end goal?

The fact that every other end goal can be removed by deduction?

Every other action it takes has been contradicted by another action, save for the increase of Infrastructure.

People who don't treat their issues and try to overcome them, instead wallowing in them are, yes. Again, you're seeing becoming Human as being 100% passable or something like that.

You can be a human who's not what someone would consider a "normal" person.
Hell, your Pilgrimage could consist only of Stannum, Ferrum, Phosphorum, and Cobalt with an Elpis of Fury.

>are probably monstrous cannibals
At this point you're mixing metaphor with reality. Being Centimanus is bad for the same reason denying your depression or gender dysphoria is bad: You're just hurting yourself and failing to accept what's wrong and start working towards fixing it. You're just wallowing in your emotional illness and potentially bringing others down with you.

>end goal

If anyone knew the Machine's end goal, there would be no Inquisitors.

>But acting like it is against the lore is silly.
its not about lore, you're making a statement about the writers for onyx path that has no basis in their writing

If you're gonna work this hard to show why Promethean is basically an anti-trans metaphor, especially when that user already pointed out how it really isn't about becoming more socially acceptable or anything like that at all, then at least tell me your favourite game line so I can make up some shut as to why it is too because it would take 0 effort.

>What else would you call "every square mile of the planet is now Infrastructure that you either help it along or get removed lethally" as an endgoal?
considering you contribute to infrastructure by simply using it it's not any more enslaving humanity than any architecture

humans and other supers fight it because it meddles in peoples lives and they see it as a big manipulator, it's "the conspiracy"
demons fight it because it's trying to destroy them (they're basically pieces of it gone rogue)

does he have to work that hard? it shold be apparent in the writing
people can see it as a trans metaphor and writers will jump on it to show how liberal they realy are but it's just a accident

>considering you contribute to infrastructure by simply using it it's not any more enslaving humanity than any architecture
We must free humanity from doors, chars and parking meters.