Invisible Sun

Have you seen the current market for rune-inscribed trump hands? The presidential run has really increased demand and the price for those little fellas.

>we are going full /x/ naoh:

N47 37'9.739, W122 21'39.865

N28 28'19.0, W081 17'54.0

N39 55'12.6, W105 01'45.1

N39 41'37.7, W084 08'17.9

N39 47'18.5, W075 36'58.3

N33 13'5.60 , W97 7'45.61

N40 35'19.165, W73 56'49.48

N32 38'24, W116 57'47

N39 12'29.1, W94 36'48.4

I think he's trying to start a religion.
Something like Scientology.

He's done that already. It's called 3.5.

That was an accident, as evidenced by Paizo just running in and taking over the shitshow with little to no resistance.
Now he's trying to do it in a controlled fashion.

To be honest, I'm following this game for the same reason that someone would follow a person who had just removed all their clothes and ran into the woods.
Because they might hurt themselves! Or do something funny!

It does have a cultish vibe to it. I half expect to hear reports of globally coordinated suicides.

It all looks rather interesting, but with the minimum pledge at $200 I'd rather just watch from a distance and not get involved.

He backed his own kickstarter with fake personalities to attract other people.

the $200 level doesn't include stretch goals.

the >$550 level has the stretch goals.

monte also wrote a week or so ago about "sharing the cost" and how the GM shouldn't be the only one buying anything. good luck getting that to actually happen, especially when there is not enough preview/review material out there to even know if it is worth it.

this entire game is built around metaplot. like...the metaplot is the whole selling point of this game. didn't the 90s teach us that people don't like that (i'm looking at you Vampire/oWoD)?

i don't even know anymore.

Some people like metaplot. Personally I like it as long as I'm not playing with people who are slaves to it.

Right now though it looks like old Monty is making some weird combo of Everway and Unknown Armies and is charging a fuckload for it. I'm curious to see how it plays out, but if I have 200 to blow on Veeky Forums things it sure as fuck won't be this.

It seems less like a kickstarter and more like a mental breakdown being crowdfunded.

I can see three things happening, if the product ever delivers. First, people will have fun tearing it to shreds and mocking it. Second, every single possible secret will be discovered within a month and posted online. Third, Monte will write an article crying about how people are ruining his mystery box. And altogether, it seems more fun than the actual game.

if i recall, the last metaplot monte was in charge of was planescape which had some awesome highs (modron march, dead gods) and some pretty rough lows (faction war).

and, yeah, agreed re. the price. i'll spend the $200 elsewhere.

>Kickstarter promises the moon
move along

For the low price of $540, Monte will give you monthly updates, telling you how to play his game.

Also, 60% funded.

Faction War was only shit because they never published the follow-up modules.

I'm getting flashbacks to the Bill Cypher hunt. They are not good flashbacks.

Some people are trying to use a sort of game-finder thread to find people to buy it as a group. I guess they'll throw their money at something.

He's not crazy, you know. Crazy people do not regularly make money selling in an overcrowded niche: they throw money out and fail. Veeky Forums may have a hateboner for Monte Cook, but this game will certainly be funded and then some, which means that Monte Cook has built more trust and a larger, more dedicated base than any of you.

Veeky Forums's derision looks a lot like denial, now. Denial that something they adamantly refuse to like made by a person they irrationally despise could possibly be better than any idea they ever had.

Veeky Forums is a hive mind that thinks if it does not involve the select list of games they already love, there is a reason it must be shit.

Monte Cook Games has a huge following but Veeky Forums overlooks it not because it is small but because it is not their collective cup of tea. Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is they assume their cup of tea is some sort of objective sense of taste.

hi Monte.

Your game looks like shit and you making multiple accounts to put money into it so you can look like it's more successful than it is doesn't change that.

The hilarious thing about your post is that it proves my point. Because there's nothing that says "denial" like "he's made 487 Kickstarter accounts to pay himself $137,017 so far."

oh I'm not denying a good portion of those aren't real people.

Just stupid real people who're wasting their money on a game they'll probably never play and trusting a guy who's probably off their rocker.

I'm sure scientology seems like a totally practical religion to you. I mean look at all those celebrities who practice and give money to it.

>RPG with physical components

I learned my lesson with Warhammer Fantasy 3e

A fantastic game, wonderful components, an easy to understand and easy to play system with a lot of customization and depth.

People rarely show up and the bulk of play is done over the internet and all of that physical goodness goes to waste.

Never again.

What kind of track record gives you that idea? All his previous games are played by a lot of people.

If you hate the games and think they're objectively bad games, so be it. But he obviously delivers on his product and people do play those games. So what fact (other than your personal disdain) suggests he will not deliver or people will not play it now?

He mentions the game is designed to account for player absences. But that still presumes that missing players will show up again eventually.

Stupidity is subjective. Some might argue that you and I are stupid for wasting time on Veeky Forums. The difference here is that you and I are posting on an anonymous image board, while Monte Cook is selling high-production value games. And these backers? They have hundreds of dollars to spend on luxuries. Call them stupid all you like, but whoever they are, they made enough surplus money to do that, which means that whatever they do, they did it well enough. That's all the information we have on them, and none of that suggests stupidity. In fact, in suggests the opposite.

> So what fact (other than your personal disdain) suggests he will not deliver or people will not play it now?

What is this game about.

Why does it cost 200 dollars.

Why is it based around metaplot?

None of these have good answers and these are huge fucking deals here. Not little mechanical things you can sneeze at or change on a whim.

Numenera was fucking wierd but it was still just like, a book with rules. I don't like D&D 3.5 but it was still following the D&D formula and it too was just like, a book with rules.

This goes beyond that into some bizarre realm and I have yet to see an actual good justification as to WHY anyone wants to buy this other than "Well I trust Monte Cooke" which is??? You know a guy can still make a shitty game right? And you're hedging your bets on a 200 dollar product? For giant stone hands to hold a card!? And this is necessary why!?

this goes beyond simple tabletop game opinions into batshit "why would you even do this" territory. And if people seriously wanna buy this game despite all that?

Fine whatever. But I know fucking red flags when I see them and there's a lot here and if you're gonna ignore them and waste a sizeable amount of dosh on a bunch of fancy paper and stone hands to hold a single card well I think I hold the right to call you an idiot at that point.

> which means that whatever they do, they did it well enough

I could probably buy this game if I wanted.

You know what I did? Work at a walmart for 1 year and get on a government sponsorship deal.

Don't go acting like the fact you're wasting 200 dollars on this something admirable. That's like championing Furries for being able to afford 2,000 dollar fursuits.

You didn't even veer close to answering the question I asked. I did not ask you if it was worth it. I asked you why you thought Monte Cook wouldn't deliver it or why people would not play it, not why they should or why Monte cook shouldn't.

I did not argue with you about it being dumb. You missed the point completely. I asked you why you thought no one would play it or get to play it. People have played and gotten to play FATAL. The quality of the product has nothing to do with the question I asked.

You.....are terrible at reading people.

Read what people are writing, not what you think they're trying to say.

Okay I'll admit. I was being hyperbolative.

Maybe people probably will play this game. In fact yes. This game WILL be played. By PEOPLE. A game will be PLAYED. The most I can say about it.

You happy now?

Okay smart guy what're you saying?

The fact you can waste 200$ on an RPG book with giant stone hands to hold your card makes you not stupid?

... I don't know what to say about that if that is the case.

Or why you seem to adamant to defend this incredibly stupid game.

Who exactly is Monte Cook? I know that he wrote Seventh Sea, but I am unfamiliar with his reputation beforehand. Is he just a really pretentious game designer?

You're thinking of John Wick

Monte Cooke wrote D&D 3.0 and 3.5

Satisfied at least.

People aren't defending this game, they're attacking these wild and hyperbolative (as you put it) accusations you make.

Lighten up, Francis.

>3.5
nigga he left right after they released 3.0

You came in going "BUT HE'S MAKING MONEY OFF IT" when people were calling this thing a train wreck.

Which it is. A profitable mess of a trainwreck but still a trainwreck. You are defending it. You are attacking the people who're laughing at this stupidity, hence you are defending it.

and yes. I'm being hyperbolative but the fact you chose to attack that rather than just brush if off is the DEFINITION of autism.

"OH NO! THIS GUY THINKS THIS THING I'VE ARBITRARILY DECIDED TO DEFEND IS GONNA NOT BE PLAYED. THAT'S *ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE* AND I CAN HOLD THAT OVER HIS HEAD LIKE AN AUTIST"

Fuck off. Seriously? You shifted the goalpost from "this game has a ridiculous buy in fee and no actual description" to "BUT IT'S MAKING MONEY THEREFORE ALL OF YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE NULL AND VOID" and you want to be taken seriously?

Why don't you lighten the fuck up and just shrug and walk away from a thread about a game you clearly have no actual investment in. Or DO YOU?

Is there something about this game that's attractive to you? Because if so I would love to hear it. Or are you just here to police other people's words like an autist?

>A game of surrealistic fantasy, secrets, and magic played both at the table--and away from it.
>--and away from it.
>away from it.
Fuck no Monty.
I know your life revolves around your games, but I play my games on a schedule for a reason. So I can drop them when I need to, and, holy shit, maybe live my actual life and do the job I get paid money for?
This is a whole other level of escapism right here.

I'm not the same user you were arguing against. You're the one screaming a tirade over something you claim to not matter.

Once again, lighten up, Francis.

>Monte Cook has built more trust and a larger, more dedicated base than any of you

This is the same problem I have with AAA developers making kickstarters for vidya. Why is someone like Monte begging for money when he has enough clout and industry experience that he could just say his name and publishers would jump at the chance to fund his game? Is it because he knows he'll pocket more money cutting out the middle man? It is because publishers have finally started realizing he's kind of a hack? Is it both?

Generally the given reason is kickstarting means that you maintain executive control.

He said it's because he likes being to operate under his own direction rather than the direction of publishers constantly looming over him.

Although everything you said might be true too.

Is it weird that I really want this to be a cult thing?

Kickstarter is also a way to work out demand in a potential project and functionally speaking backers work indistinguishably from pre-orders.

With some subjects and projects it's a really good system for financing a project (music albums for instance have a really good record for producing what the kickstarter promises) and less good for others (computers are especially egregious because their development cycles aren't easy to plan out accurately ahead of time, and also because computer nerds are thieving lazy good for nothings)

Full disclosure, I've backed MCG Kickstarters before.

Here's the gameplay video from Kickstarter.

youtu.be slash XDlXierCCeQ

Target numbers, dice pools, breakout sessions, metaplot. This all reminds me very much of how my groups played oWOD back in the day.

Doesn't seem terribly revolutionary to me. Not seeing how this all warrants a $200 game box (which is huuuuge, if it's the same size as in the video.)

I'm also a much more casual gamer these days, and not so much into story games, so I'm guessing I am also not the target audience.

Everything Monte does strikes me as, I don't know how to describe it, just very early 2000s chic.

The whole "the player isn't here so their character fades into normie world for the session" is a bit too twee for my tastes.

Unless the PC is ultra vital to a scene, I generally take the pretend they don't exist option to avoid putting someone into extreme risk without the player there or putting words in mouths.

why not just buy a good game?

the advertising and MCG in general is what is turning me the fuck off from it.

we're talking about a game that looks like a generic mystery box and if you read the earliest press shit they constantly go on and on about this game like its some grand secret and you're smart enough to understand it and thats because you're a brilliant and interesting person and shit. like it literally reminds me of those self help books that promise some retarded answer to making life better and then its usually just Bhuddism or something but like, you're still allowed to be a piece of shit and you don't have to learn how to focus your mind or meditate. I remember reading one once my mum gave me and it was like.. "think about what you want and you will get it through magic and shit"

also, in general monte cook games has some fucking pretentious man children playing their games and making them. I follow bruce cordell on twitter...holy shit. the first tweet from that guy was him quoting some article about how the geek community is becoming more insular and xenophobic because they weren't interested in buying the newest COD or seeing the new ghostbusters and he was all "oh man MCG fans are so cool and enlightened and intellectual that this isn't even really a problem with them" and I asked him why he thought that buying the 13th call of duty game and seeing a remake meant a person was enlightened and he blocked me

If you watch the video they accidentally reveal It's literally a reskinned cypher system game.

Oh look. A kickstarter that promises the moon and shows nothing, while at the same time using the kickstarter platform as nothing more than a glorified pre-order storefront to pad their pockets with money of the imbeciles.

Just wait for a sec, I'll be "contributing" in just a sec. I'll "back up" this "project" any second now. Juuust a sec.

>This is the same problem I have with AAA developers making kickstarters for vidya. Why is someone like Monte begging for money when he has enough clout and industry experience that he could just say his name and publishers would jump at the chance to fund his game?

Why not?

Lets be honest: regardless of its stated purpose, crowdfunding sites like Kickstarter work a lot better for people with an established reputation. If you're already successful, its like a platform for getting easy money, while also getting cheap marketing. For people with no name, Kickstarter is often a waste of time.

Because then there's no mystery or a box

Is that Sean K. "If invisibility is a mind-affecting spell I will kill myself" Reynolds playing in the video?

invisiblesunrpg.com/corona/gamesasagrouppurchase/

Look, the price is perfectly reasonable. Don't you love your GM?

Edgelord survival box for a tabletop rpg that throws the social aspect of tabletop gaming out of the window.
This game literally screams "I don't actually want to play with any of you at this table, I'm just here to shows off my characters that I've made out of this non-existent social experience".
"ouh also I've blown 200$ to spike up my ego"
>NOPE

This is clearly a joke on "I'll take the mystery box, Monte!"

I can't imagine it's anything else. And that's hysterical to me.

Did anyone else watch the video? I've never felt so disturbed watching people play a tabletop game.

Why?

I don't know, it's just unsettling. It's almost as if I get real big "power fantasy" vibes from this game. The people don't see like they are facing adversity at all and they most certainly aren't role playing in any capacity. Not once did any of them say anything "in character"

>I asked him why he thought that buying the 13th call of duty game and seeing a remake meant a person was enlightened and he blocked me

Plain simple elitism. It sells. (to dummies who think that they're part of this nebulous 'elite').

Pic related; it's a previous game-changing technology also with the word 'sun' in it.

PS: Has Monte mastered those amazingly deep and intellectual games called 'dating' and 'marriage' yet? I can't remember.

This game is obviously Not For Critics.

>Sean K. "If invisibility is a mind-affecting spell I will kill myself" Reynolds

OK, this you have to explain. I've seen the water balloon fighter and other screencaps but this is new to me.

Wouldn't that depend on the mechanism of invisibility? If you bend light around yourself so that it never touches you, that's fooling the eye, not the mind. If the eye still detects you but the mind doesn't perceive you, that's obviously mind-affecting.

>On his quest to discover the long-forgotten (and perhaps forbidden) number between 12 and 13
12.5?

seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/invismindaffecting.html

Pretty much all his rants are either "grog grogs aggressively" or "man who has never heard about RPGs other than D&D rants about minor deviations from D&D as though they're radical new inventions."

Addendum: Or, as is the case with this one, "man rants at the moon for not being made of lead and custard."

My theory is that it's actually going to be a box filled with shit and dice. Like, he's going to eat a bunch of them, shit in a box and send it to you.

Will Wright and Monte Cook are basically the same person at this point.

I'm sorry but I had to.

>12.5?
Shhhhh!!! You're giving the mystery away!

We all know Monte fans are innumerate. Or maybe innumenerate.

That's not much of a rant, and it's perfectly rational. I get that SKR is a retard, but that's a very poor example.

>Rant: If Invisibility is Mind-Affecting, I'll Kill Myself
Wow, I thought you were joking.

What was the need for that rant? Some community argument about invisibility?

>and it's perfectly rational.

It's like the most archetypal strawmanning you could possibly imagine; he just straight invented this opposing position that, as far as I know, nobody anywhere ever has ever taken (despite him claiming that apparently he hears this argument commonly? is he confusing "people discussing Vampire's Obfuscate in his general vicinity" as a discussion on D&D's Invisibility?), and argued against it.

If you were a publisher, would you put your money on this pile of incoherent nonsense? I wouldn't.

This is doubly funny because 3.5 psions had a-totally-not-Invisibility spell that was mind affecting.

>Policing words like an autist.
Replace 'autist' with 'SJW' and your post will become 200% more true.

Considering the implications of it being designed specifically to escape from normal life, completely and permanently, I'd say it is a cult thing.

I don't know if this game will be worth even a fraction of what's being asked, but I do appreciate it when designers are willing to try new shit in the pursuit of innovation.

So shine on, you crazy diamond.

Sorry, I'm wrong. They recommended Doctor Strange and Phillip K. Dick or Grant Morrison as related reading material, so it's a drug thing, not a cult.

SKR literally uses the existence of mind-affecting not!Invisibility as a psionic power in his argument.

I've seen it come up here on Veeky Forums, and we've even briefly discussed it IRL in my group.

What if the GM isn't interested in learning a new system at the moment? Why not jut spend that money on getting food or good chairs?

Someone hates their GM! Any real GM would jump, frothing at the mouth, at the chance to GM such a premium project.

Really? How?

This looks really cool...but not 200 dollars cool.

And no my players are all college and cheapass shits, they won't split it with me.

I know that comic is meant to be stupid, but Inappropriate Time for Ham is a great comic.

>I do appreciate it when designers are willing to try "new" shit in the pursuit of "innovation".