Return to miniature gaming after a few years

System depending, you can do fun, thematic, and cheese lists all in one. Take 40k Ravenwing formations allow mass biker armies. Other formations allow stealth suit lists, or mass battlesuits.

Those are thematic, strong, and fun to play.
It's all about the quality of the system.

>the point of wargames is to have the best list
If that's your approach, then there's not really any game at all. You choose the right codex/army and spam the best unit, and that's it.

Alot of historical games are about replicating real battles, realistic troop formations, or at least strategically interesting scenarios.

Well sure, but if you're playing AoEII and attempting to use blobs of Men at Arms, you probably don't understand the numbers behind the game, given how fast things like longbowmen slaughter them.

It is as long as you avoid this shit.

The bad thing is that everything looks the same and bland. Generic as fuck model wise.

Unless you're using smoke screens, camo, and protecting your firing lanes.

But, yeah, movement can get you killed easily.

No, by all means, please do. I routinely use MSV2. And I cannot help but notice how many specialists that list has.

Thats alot of fucking highlanders

I usually run Kazaks or USadriana and that list looks like certain Nomad or PanO lists can fuck it up

Adriana or Haqqislam have some nice models

Many players enjoy scenarios or campaign games. For example, purposefully mismatched scenarios like a last stand or an elite team trying to complete an infiltration mission. These can be a lot of fun and are often a major factor of historical games (where people reenact D-Day, Waterloo, the crusades, etc. etc. in miniatures form)

The other issue is with blatantly unbalanced systems, like 40k. A guy from one army can bring the most minmaxed thing he can from his army and still lose to a more powerful codex that isn't even trying (cough, eldar, cough)

No idea which is OP's situation though.

Basically why I havent invested the time to make placard armies.

Their are a few folks I have to play with are universally concerned about squeezing as many points out of an army as possible, or rather, efficiency out of their army. Now, this would be fine if they went for a theme but usually its grey knights and only grey knights and if they win they crow about how you couldnt stand a chance, and if they lose they look like they are about to tear up.

Not all of em are that bad, but about a quarter are. We also play table tops closely enough that I couldn't invite some without those people. Its funny because their wives refuse to play opposite them as they know how focused they get at number crunching and crushing opposition.

They do it in tabletop, system permitting, as well.

These are the people who would run skaven sling lines. The most boring, if possibly effective build out there for mordheim.

I build fun stuff in pnp and elsewhere. Its not competitive. Its not from the internet. Its just neat concepts and my own work.

This. Warmachine has the same problem, although their models look just stupid.

are there any gaming clubs near you you can find play ers there.
Unless it was like he one i went to that was bleeding players after two years then died when it was left to 4 regulars.
Infinity has garbage balance worse than 40k at times

Ah Warmachine. Every faction has the same problem for me either love the troops and hate the jack/beast or hate the troops and love the jack/beast.

If only the players weren't a bunch of waacfags. Don't get me wrong being a waac is no problem when you go full waacfag it is.

Example:
>New warmachine player
>Faces old player
>Old player caster kill the new player on turn 2
>Old player does not teach or gives tips to the new guy
>He know he is new.
>Old starts to say how bad the new guy is.

For fuck sake it was a new guy, just learning no need to caster kill on turn 2. Especially if you offer to teach the guy and say nothing about his obvious mistake. Just so you could win.

I'm not sure how things are in communities you have frequented, but as a new player here in Italy I've been treated well. Every time my opponents had tips for me, and some times we even rewinded a turn just to show me new things.

I mean, jerks are in pretty much every game or wargame, it's not a thing for Warmachine xD

Generally Warmachine is a magnet for jerks.

The fact that the game does not need actual miniatures, does not help.

>does not need actual miniatures

Hang on, what? Are people near you playing with proxy bases or something? Cuz I've been in and out of a few local metas and the Northeastern US regional tourney scene for ten years, and I have never once seen that shit.

... Wut? °_°

What do you mean?

I've seen people playing without terrain or just flat cards.

At that point why even bother with models. How the game works actual models are not really needed. That is kind of sad though.

>How the game works actual models are not really needed.

A games mechanics relying on how the model looks universally leads to shit gameplay.

I'll admit I have seen 2D terrain in some tournaments. It actually is useful (no cocked models or arguments about what constitutes "in terrain"), though I personally loathe the way it looks.

But seriously, "models are not really needed," could be applied to any war game ever. You just need rules and something to mark out board position. You could play 40k with pennies for infantry and soda cans for drop pods. Or Battletech with shotgun shells and pebbles. But I've never met someone in any game, Warmachine included, who would actually let you do it.

The main problem with some wargame players is that they treat the games as video games.

In what regard?

As in the sense they tend to forget you can't just switch armies on the fly or just rage quit and start a new match.

You need at least two people to meet on a physical space, set up a board, deploy models, and play. Between transit time and actual game it is at least an hour spent.

So when someone intentionally power games to win the game in less than 2 turns is a very dick move.

I'm not arguing that power gamers aren't dicks, man. Nobody likes 'em. I just don't get this supposition that Warmachine is somehow more attractive to them than any other game.

Just saying that at least locally Warmachine is a magnet for those assholes. Why? Maybe due to how the caster kill mechanic work.

Honestly no idea. My Retribution are sitting in a box. Going to wait a bit longer to see if the old ass leave the game.

play warmachine tactics instead then

>As in the sense they tend to forget you can't just switch armies on the fly or just rage quit and start a new match.
Yes, you can (budget permitting)

>You need at least two people to meet on a physical space, set up a board, deploy models, and play. Between transit time and actual game it is at least an hour spent.
Fair point.

>So when someone intentionally power games to win the game in less than 2 turns is a very dick move.
No it isn't. Breaking rules is a dick move, doing your best within boundaries of the rules is legit.

at least you still have people who still play miniature games. The Wargaming scene has been dead around my area since 6th ed 40k dropped. Now it's just Magic and Yu-gi-oh.

Doesn't Haqqislam have shitloads of scantily clad women

>... Wut? °_°
Fucking kill yourself you nigger

nope, skintight spandex and plugsuits are halal

This depends on whether you're playing casually or in tournaments or something.

Casual play is for having fun with other people and choosing things because they make thematic sense or look fun, even if they're less than optimal by your estimation. Competitive play (tournaments, etc.) is for breaking the game within the realm of the rules so hard that the developers have to release a new edition. If you do either of these in the other situation, you're doing it wrong. (None of this is to say that friends can choose to play competitively as long as everyone involved is on board, or that people don't have fun playing competitively.) Whether competitive or casual is assumed depends on context, of course.

My FLGS had struggled with them. A few hung around all the time. Always picking on the new players. So we as a group decided they needed to tone it down or they won't get games. They ended up not getting games, and eventually leaving for good. Now it's a full FLGS of people playing in a way that's fun for both sides, not netlist vs netlist.

None exist as far as I know.

>the point of war games is to have the best list.
Objectively wrong. The point of tournaments is to have the best list, the best dice rolls and the best matches in your favor.
The point of war games is have a game that's about war.

>Generally Warmachine is a magnet for jerks.
Can confirm, at least in the US. Don't forget their rulebook starts with "Play like you've got a pair."
Not sure what pair of things they are referring two, but it's not referring to friends, that's for damn sure.