/awg/ - Alternative Wargames General

Post when you have done and I shall share most of my Osprey games, LotR, Frostgraves etc

How many of you play with paper tokens or similar low budget alternatives?

It's how i test systems.

Will do. Expect an update Saturday.

Yeah but it's pretty much entirely historicals.
Which is fine but, /hwg/ is over here

I've played KoW with cardboard rectangles

Works really well because you can write the unit stats on the "movement tray"

but I've got lots and lots and lots of minis so mostly I use those

Those spaceships are cool, source?

Hydra Miniatures. They do retro-raygun sorta stuff.

This seems like the place to ask. Anyone played Tomorrow's War, Gruntz, Fast & Dirty, Dirtside or Star Grunts? I'm looking at scifi skirmish games and don't know where to start.

i've played TW, Gruntz, F&D. Start with F&D since the rules are free. Go for Gruntz if you want more detail in statting your own dudes. Otherwise, after F&D, go for any of the Nordic Weasel games.

>Five Parsecs From Home
This looks pretty much like exactly what I wanted. Thanks.

Just be aware, Ivan is a 1 man army when it comes to making his books. The layout is "Printed from MS Word" on most of his stuff, but the rules are solid.

FiveCore is pretty much the GURPS of wargaming. Solid core system with a lot of fun derivatives.

Its his I'm play testing my game at the moment.

Now I just have to blackmail my artistic friends to make me a line of paper minis to go with it...

we need a good pasta horde of scans...however...

this is all i got, and a few anons said a few didn't work.

----scans and stuff:
Dark Osprey: mega.nz/#F!jQwmDYpZ!aYHWwc0eRcdKUt29OzvmPQ

Song of Blades and Heroes: www79.zippyshare.com/v/iZxKO9TF/file.html

Frostgrave: mega.nz/#!4VkgBZ5T!ywmu7DfIoMyDzNdKP3aJeJg9KtmQMnHKastPTvQgHRQ
yuki.la/tg/47195248

Might Armies: sendspace.com/file/xnk3wu

Open Combat: pastebin.com/UtCXXg2q

Starship troopers game & RPG
mediafire.com/folder/e4oycjt58953v/Starship_Troopers_Miniatures_Game
mediafire.com/folder/tx3jgg9hte50u/Starship_Troopers_RPG

Sword and Board: swordandboardgames.com.au/downloads.html

Endless Fantasy Tactics:
mega:///#!WAtHUQjZ!8C3kG7M1TOyydHVa91jVU6G1AHsorHCGxYabWfJ_PgA

SAGA: mediafire.com/folder/alj31go19tmpm/SAGA

Here's a list of miniature manufacturers anyone can write in; once we have a lot we can probably make a more stable list/pastebin.
docs.google.com/document/d/1D2DbNJ2mYAUxh5P9Pq9NZqS5tXHGn0i2JhZchEwbA2I/edit?usp=sharing

All in the OP already, friend. But please keep a backup in place, that way if things go south we're not SOL like osrg when troveguy goes offline.

I posted before about making my own game for solo play. How complex would you want looting to be in that scenario?

Would having rare drops for say a stun modification be better than having to find wires and a battery on different rolls?

I'm torn between making it Stalkerish where it's military dudes using guns (which have no status effects so melee is needed to support the ranged units by stunning or poisoning the enemies) and keeping it low tech to make melee shine with rare ranged units.

I like the idea of having a base stat system of 5 across the board but then when you make a character you have 3 points to spend to customize them. Charges add +2" to movement, Running adds +4" and melee range is a flat 1".

Base sizes are just small, medium or large. If you want to use warmachine, hordes or frostgrave style bases you just use that size and go.

Any other suggestions? You guys have a better idea of whats out there than most people here.

>GURPS of wargaming

Know what I'm getting next paycheck.

Can you add any of the ASoBaH expansions?

>pastebin.com/7yfPLFNF
O8 makes some SF stuff. I've seen it used for Ogre, with a 6mm tank converted up as an Ogre.

To the guy that dropped Coreheim being officially rebranded to Wyrd Wars,

Thanks!

>mega:///#!WAtHUQjZ!8C3kG7M1TOyydHVa91jVU6G1AHsorHCGxYabWfJ_PgA

This link for endless fantasy tactics doesn't work

Do you guys varnish your minis? I've heard some people use floor polish for the proper "shiny toy soldier look"

>for the proper "shiny toy soldier look"

Thats what i want to avoid.

I use Vallejo matt varnish. Most of the time i apply it by brush.

I'm at work at the moment, but I'll help you along with Song of Blades and Heroes.

Your links are to Advanced Song of Blades and Heroes, maybe make that clear.

Here's a folder an user has curated. It's got both the 4th Edition and 5th Edition rulebook, and most if not all of the supplements.

mediafire.com/folder/58t2w9hu30t37/sobah

And whilst trying to find that link on the archive, I found Tales of Blades and Heroes, with RPG rules for the system:

mediafire.com/download/c7033a1yeczogph/Tales_of_Blades_and_Heroes.pdf

I think
Has the ASOBaH expansion in it, Hammer and Forge.

They're all great. Dirtside isn't really a skirmish game though; it's more like generic sci-fi Epic.

Pick a period first, I'd say. You can't make a game that's suitable for everything desu.

Looting shouldn't be hard to accomplish with some random tables, no?
It's def. a big factor in STALKER/postapoca settings.

Pick a period, pick a scale and then find the rules.

I dunno, one hour wargames covers any period with good rules, and the pz8 guys cover any period

They are generic. If you want a Stalker game, you don't want to put in medieval firearms. Period/theme specific games are usually better because...they are specific.

kowg folded right? So we're adopting all the mantic games?

Did it? When?

This. Specifically targeted rules systems are generally superior to generic systems attempting to cover the same thing, in that they can actually grab more a suitable 'feel'. And Feel is a huge part of wargame mechanics.

Always, always varnish shiny first, then matt on top.

Shiny varnish is so much more effective at actually protecting your toys, and it's also a great base for decals.

Am fairly certain that's actually a myth, or at least the difference in protection is so minor as to be utterly irrelevant.

This; there shouldn't be any difference between 2 coats of matte and 1 coat of each. Matte is just gloss with an additive.

As someone who isn't fucking retarded let me tell you how wrong you are.

You're extremely fucking wrong. Gloss varnish and matte varnish are completely different, one is a thin coat that alters how the light reflects off something and the other is a coat of plastic.

As some who works in the art industry and deals with clear coats regularly, let me tell you how wrong YOU are. The reason light reflects off of matte differently is the additive; it makes the acrylic (or whatever you happen to be adding it to) bumpy on a microscopic level. That's it. Same stuff.

Guess you must be a modern artist to be this retarded. Additives change the qualities of the varnish which includes the level of protection it provides.

Theory vs practice... I'll concede that maybe, possibly, matte might provide like .0001% less protection than gloss. Real life, you ain't gonna notice it. The only effective difference you might notice is that matte retains dirt easier (due to the fact that it's not smooth).

Maybe you should listen to life long war gamers who have had paint rub off models only matte varnished while gloss has kept stuff safe for years.

Coat 2 identical miniatures in gloss and matte then try scratching them, you will see a big difference immediately.

I'm not they guy you are arguing with, but he's right.
Gloss varnish is better at protection.
Which a lot of wargamers do gloss first and then matte varnish.
Pretty common knowledge.

Whether or not you need the extra protection depends on how much you game and how you treat your models.
Display pieces don't need varnishing at all.

>tfw literally never varnished any of my models

The fuck are people doing to make the paint rub off?

Depends on the mini, it can be hard to keep a PJ on a metal one for example.

>Did it? When?
Like this week when the thread died at 60 posts and hasn't been remade

Ok so which gloss varnish should I use? Finish floor polish?

By touching the models if they are made out of metal

Carrying them around in foam cases and handling them regularly. Paint doesn't rub off it scratches off. You catch the edge of some terrain, it gets knocked over, your nail catches it. This can all RIP AND TEAR paint.

What do you guys think about league play like in Bloodbowl but with other games?
Has anyone done it? Wants to try it?

most scenery is made of sand and stones glue to card. That's essentially super rough sandpaper. If you know a mini over on a slope that's all you need.
And as I said it depends on how carefully you handle your stuff.
If you only have it in your cabinet at home and don't play much you are likely gonna have a vastly different experience than somebody who plays a lot and has to transport his army in a carry case or something like that.

I think it's a perfectly good idea as long as the game in question is competitive and balanced enough to suit it.

>Of Gods and Mortals
I like the concept for the game, but really don't like SoB&H.

is Kings of war any good because i've heard mixed things about

It can be real swingy, so it depends on how you feel about that.

What do you mean with Swingy? would you care to explain?

I love it, personally. It's the game I always wished WHFB was- trimming off most of the bullshit and leaving a tight ruleset that's easy to learn and difficult to master. I guess the swingy complaint is that units don't have a set number of wounds- instead you roll 2d6 and add their damage, and if it's over their nerve score they are destroyed. So high or low rolls can fuck you a little bit.

>don't have a set number of wounds...
Reminds me of Basic Impetus rules.

I want to get into KoW, but I just can't get into their minis. Besides Undead, I think they all look boring as hell.

I am stuck, and not sure how to unstuck myself.

I've playtested Pendraken, Mighty Armies, Dragon Rampant, and Hordes of the Things. Each has something I like, each has something I dislike. I'm too dumb to meld all the bits I like into my own system.

Try looking at Wargods of aegyptus, its skews more towards warhammer but is d10 based with an order system. also demigods lead the warbands instead of gods.

So units accumulate damage on the unit and add it to the leadership to see when they are destroyed, Warhammer style 2D6 roll under, double 1's always pass. Units function at full strength, no matter the damage on them. So most of the time, plink damage doesn't overly hurt the unit and eventually taking enough damage forces the unit to run, but you also get instances of a unit taking the minimum of damage and being destroyed, while on the other extreme is units taking immense damage several times and still sitting there on double 1's. Both are extremely unlikely, but the average seems to be something like most units end up having a 50/50 to be destroyed.

I love kings of war, it's basically rules light whfb

Same, love the rules, hate the minis, even undead aren't that impressive.

I do like their Khemri but besides that I won't buy their stuff

Play them all

So play it with different minis then hey
Even official mantic tournaments let you use whatever you want, within reason.

I wish I knew about more places to grab fantasy troop minis from.

we've got a really large collection of manufacturers

holy fuck perfect six scenics is amazing, I'm so glad you guys put it in the op

That list is really short when you're in the US, and it's even shorter when you notice how little the fantasy sections are at each place.

It's suffering being a Burgerland Wargamer

Well you're looking to play KoW right?

What kind of army? What's your budget? What minis do you like.

There's loads of heavy hitters like Mantic, GW and then Reaper to fill the gap.

If you just want two human armies then take a peak at historical, you've got Warlord games (which is rolling out wargames factory stuff for cheap orcs and skeletons). Warlord also is supplying the Northstar Miniatures for Frostgrave which isn't a bad idea if you see something you like.

You can also pick up anything from warmahordes if it fits into your army.

Why are you looking to collect 28mm? Are you gaming at a club? What minis do they favour? Are you looking to make a game for your friends? Why not dip into 15mm which softens the bank note and makes it easier to pay for that shipping fee (which is also less because 15mm minis weight less and take up less space, bonus for storage!)

More miniatures for 28mm manufacturers:

Dark Sword Miniatures
darkswordminiatures.com/
Excellent collection of high quality fantasy sculpts, excellent for characters or skirmish figures.

Well, like I said, Mantic figures bore me. GW is pricey, and WFB figures are slowly dwindling down to only ebay purchases. Reaper figures also don't really tickle my fancy, even though I enjoy that most figures are relatively cheap, but I don't feel like buying the same three or four figures 5 times for a regiment of something.

I'd actually love to get into 15mm or smaller, but I don't know how well they would fit in with other people's 28mm armies. Honestly, I'd probably end up playing mostly with close friends, but I wouldn't mind taking my army to a local shop to play.

All that really matters in KoW is that your unit has the correct footprint, and that it's clear to yourself and your opponent what it is meant to represent. You can mix and match scales without a worry, you just might have to shove more dudes on a base.

So what 28mm fantasy minis do you like?
And if you are just playing with friends, 15mm shouldn't be a problem.

Ooops, got excited with the turtle mini, so I posted before writing out more.

Other World Miniatures
otherworldminiatures.co.uk/
28mm Fantasy Miniatures for skirmish gameplay

Avatars of War
avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/
Specifically not GW sculpts this company provides amazing sculpts. They're out of Spain but there are many sites which ship them worldwide and they ship worlwide with a fixed shipping rate.

Reaper
reapermini.com/
Good sculpts, with the option of cheap bones minis

Perry Miniatures
perry-miniatures.com
Historicals, Dirt cheap for how great the sculpts are

Warlord Games
us-store.warlordgames.com/
Huge name in Historicals, picked up Wargames Factory so be on the look out for cheap skeletons and more fantasy, the orc sprue is available under > more games > other games

Shield Wolf Miniatures
shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php
Good sized fantasy range

grippingbeast.co.uk/
Historicals

Gamezone Miniatures
gamezoneminiatures.com/tienda/en/
Metal and resin GW alternatives

Mirliton Fantasy
mirliton.it/index.php?cName=fantasy-2528mm
Huge range, including the original grenadier sculpts if you're trying to hunt those down

eM 4 Miniatures
www.em4miniatures.co
They've got uh, a unique range, the main reason they're on here is because you can buy fifty plastic orcs for eight pounds. Quantity is its own kind of quality (combatzonechronicles.net/em4/orcsy.htm)

I desperately need every single one of the DiTerlizzi Masterworks.

>being picky and cheap

Well see, here's the best part, I get to tell you that you're wrong for having that opinion and that you're wrong for thinking this are expensive. You are right though that ebay is a joke. The buying spree out of panic for WHFB ended last summer and is 100% gone with AoS staying strong despite the naysayers and internet rage.

Now, you put forth that GW is pricey but it's not really because you're not playing their game in this assumption.

KoW rules let you use less models in the unit than are actually there, so you can stretch everything out to have more stuff, especially if you get creative or pull in reaper bones miniatures assuming you find ones that fit and you're happy with. Otherwise you're at the mercy of availability and your problem continues.

I digress.

If you're looking at their base troops their prices are par for the course. You can get 12 Chaos Warriors, A chariot, Five knights and a Wizard for $85 USD which you can use as two 10 man chaos warrior units, or one 20 man blob (mounting 11 and using the extra as a lord or something).

$40 gets you another 16 chaos warriors. $38 gets you a bunch of light infantry which again, stretching multi basing and what not can get you places.

Unfortunately something is going to have to give, you're going to have to spend money or pick another hobby. Unless you just borrow armies from your friends you don't get to have your cake and eat it to. If wargaming is too expensive for you at least there's video games.

DiTerlizzi is the best fantasy artist who has ever lived, it's a crime at how cheap his artbook is on amazon (cough cough) amazon.com/Realms-Roleplaying-Art-Tony-DiTerlizzi/dp/161655732X I got it half off for some insane reason but even now it's 27% off

So it wouldn't be awkward to put a 6mm troop into a 28mm tray? I can't help but laugh at the picture of that image, but I guess it would add some fun.

It's hard to say. I just like what I like, as cryptic as that sounds.

he was saying 15mm and 28mm aren't horrible to mix but you're welcome to make a fool of yourself however you please.

In all the mass combat games the most important part is the frontage of units

>If wargaming is too expensive for you at least there's video games

$400 dollar consoles, $60 games, $12 a month subscriptions, and $60 controllers.

I honestly can't tell which would be the cheaper expenditure.

Models never go out of fashion, people usually adopt newer consoles and games and wholly discard past games.

The secret is that Video Gaming is without a doubt the most inexpensive hobby you can have. Technically you could watch tv illegally online which would be somehow even cheaper but we're really scraping semantics on expenditure here (and watching tv/anime illegally is a pretty poor hobby if it's all you do).

The truth is if you look into hobbies you quickly realize that Veeky Forums are quite inexpensive hobbies and if you complained to strangers about how much your toy soldiers costed they would likely berate you.

Most hobbies are far more expensive than wargaming or even video gaming. Especially with how many hours of enjoyment hobbyists get out of each box. Building and painting usually surpass the hour per dollar ratio of an evening at the movies, or even a nice fancy meal.

But to each his own, I hope he finds happiness.

>The secret is that Video Gaming is without a doubt the most inexpensive hobby you can have.

Ah, I forgot to note the kicker *if you are patient*

For one consoles launch at a price point where the manufacturer is losing money on each sale which they try to recoup with software sales (especially digital) where they get a nice chunk of money from licensing.

However buying refurbished consoles, or used games, and generally scrimping and saving. You could forseeably spend a year playing something like Skyrim for possibly $300 or less.

I should hope nobody is limited to $300 for a year's worth of entertainment, but there's a reason why children play video games and usually stop once they start earning money.

>It's hard to say. I just like what I like, as cryptic as that sounds.
Checkout the 9th age alternatives wiki pages, maybe you'll like something you see

the-ninth-age.com/lexicon/index.php?lexicon/462-the-9th-age-miniature-library/

>more possible cool places to get miniatures

Ramshackle Games
shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/
Pretty weird lines, bit sporadic, some bundles on sets of guys

If you do 6mm armies, I'd say use smaller frontages, and halve the distances plus count them in centimeters. You'll need a much smaller area to play, and the armies will be dirt cheap. Tho I'd recommend 10mm, the old Warmaster scale.

I only play kow in 10mm using warmaster's basing system and it works pretty good (although the cavalry basing is a bit finnicky and I'll probably need to rebase them at a latter time)
Also, 30bux for an army is really really good.

Hello?

Check local paint shops. Usually they have some good sprays. I wouldn't bother with brushed on stuff.

Airbrush or aerosol?

I use vallejo varnishes. You can either brush them on or use them in your airbrush if you have one.
I think they also sell spraycans, but i'm not a big fan of these.