/btg/ - BattleTech General

>MWO scale
It's shit.

>Uncommon mechs
>let's talk about those mechs mostly ignored or forgotten by everyone
>Vehicles are fine too
My homie, the Cronus. I mean, >I< talk her up a lot in these threads, but it's genuinely one of the tiny handful of IntroTech 'Mechs I never see on the field unless I'm using it.
While it was in garage-only rebuild production for the 4SW, they were still making two a month even then - which is more than some Bug factories. It hit mass-production within a few years, and got upgraded in 3060 to a Clanbuster standard. Gilmour sold and shipped pretty goddamned indiscriminately too. I mean, if you're gonna give the shitheels at Herotitus a company of them, you'll sell to anyone.

Granted, she's piss-ugly (like most everything from its era). But if you've got a couple fucked-up Shads you don't really need, send 'em to Gilmour and you'll get back a tough, fast, hard-hitting little bitch for less than half the price of a WVR-5M new.

The refit shifts the Shad's focus into a mid-range/brawler. You lose flexibility (oh, horror) for the capacity to actually do some fucking damage; it's a better brawler than the WVR because of the weapon placement. You can run, fire all your short-range weapons, and punch while staying heat-neutral.
You do lose out on long-range fire support, but who in their right mind runs a medium cavalry company >without< Griffins? It also functions as an effective urban skirmisher and anti-vee unit.

As far as personal refits go, I've used a few different ones for my 'mercs over the years:
• Drop the -3M's RT laser for a flamer, or a pair of sinks and the LT lasers to add on five MGs, a super-charger, and a half-ton of ammo.
• Straight hangar-bay refits for the -3M that pull the LL for an ERLL and/or MLs for ERs or SPLs.
• A -5M refit that adds a Capped Snubbie, and drops the C3 and ERSL to bump the SSRM up to a six-pack.
• A 5/8/7 C3i Blakie with 3 MXPL, 1 LVSPL, LFE, and Small Cockpit

LAMs were a mistake
QuadVees, while interesting, are fruit of Herb's hardon for Transformers and Hell's Horses and that is a huge low point for me

>shits on LAMs
>is ok with car-based transformers
Really, user? Why is one ok and the other isn't?

Proof here that Kawamori does quadvees better.

the fanbase bitches too much about LAMs. The units aren't bad, but the OOC history is

...

...

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off-brand Thunderbolt?

off-brand Crusader?

do we even know what these are supposed to look like?

seems to be a Griffin

...

Now we are talking, 1000% wtf

>Cronus
starslayer kind of steps on its dick tho, especially when you go up to level 2 tech

a lot of the "here's my favorite sl retcon mechs" are just mediocre retreads of tro 2750 mechs everyone also forgot about

never identified, as far as I know

>seems to be a Griffin
whoops, yeah, the Lineholder is mentioned in the book and uses a Griffin chassis, so it's probably early Lineholder art.

Those rookie guides really helped my newb ass out.
One of the guys I play with was inspired by my gumball vehicles and found a couple of super battle droids from the old WotC Star Wars miniatures game, I think he is gonna use them as Ostscouts.

I know someone ID'd the blue guy as a Gundam mech, I don't remember which one. But what kind of BattleMech would it be good for?

It's a Gyan. Medium Shield, 2 SRM 6 LA, Sword RA.

...

Is there a way to search for mechs that mount shields?

megamek can filter for things like this

>starslayer kind of steps on its dick tho, especially when you go up to level 2 tech
Yes and no.
For starters, the STY never had an official Intro-tech variant. Even the -2C uses ferro and Freezers, and its armor is already abysmal enough without dropping the ferro and the ability to use its weapons.
The -3C has double the firepower at long range, with similar at brawling, but half a ton less armor on the torso with minimal leg improvements and a flipping RA (so it loses out in melee). It also costs more than twice as much and has a completely packed, unmodifiable body.
The -3D loses all its short-range damage edge on either the TL or Advanced Cronuses, not to mention speed, has a shorter brawling range, and gets.. well, it doesn't have an XL. If you're using the 'Slayer as a jump-sniper, it also can't use its mid-range guns without severe overheating.
Meanwhile, the Cronus -5D has a c3 Slave, which you can keep, or dump for another ML, a sink, a flamer, or even an ECM/BAP system (concurrent with dumping the ERSL), all of which are good choices for a fast brawler.

The -3Dr >does< get a headcapper in the form of an HPPC, but has to resort to kicking to use its improperly-balanced TSM, lacks heat-tuning, and gives up a hand actuator to crowbar all the hardware in. It also, for reasons best left to the dev team, has an ML in the back of the head, the HPPC in the RT, and a handless RA with an ECM in it instead of just mounting a damned flippy RA like a sane person (which also would have given them space to pop in a pair of ERSLs or SLs with which to heat-tune).

Plus I like the Cronus and the Shad's looks way better than the STY.

Don't forget this poor bastard. Looks like a Stinger head on a Vindie torso with parts strapped on from a Bushwacker, but God alone knows what the other shit is from. I think that RT might be from a Vulture though.

How about a Valiant?

The Valiant has barely enough space to mount 3 MLs, let alone 2 SRM6.

Oh, and the Wobbie Cronus sucks fat fucking donkey balls. What kind of moron puts VSPLs in the arms of a 'Mech with claws? Or stealth on a punching design with c3? It's.. yeah. It's bad.

I mean just using the Gyans as Valiants?

Or using them as Sasquatches if they are big enough?
Also I have this little Warmachine.

Call it a Legionnaire? Or maybe one of Chaffee's shitters.

Man, for such a great pulp style painter, Chaffee was real shit at designing robots. R.I.P.

What are those?

Quadvees ended up complete junk. I wish it had been otherwise. Heck, I'd have loved 'Tanks that use mech rules for heat and Crits' as a HH invention

these work so much better as Battle Armors
still generic af, chaffee should had stick with vehicles

that isn't a chafee design, it's from mwda

Those look more like BattleArmor than most BattleArmor.

still his art, though
some people can ruin interesting designs but he didn't

What's the point and purpose of QuadVees anyway? Wouldn't it be better to just stick to either combined arms or a pure 'Mech/pure 'Vee force?

Literally the edgiest battlemech.

>What's the point and purpose of QuadVees anyway?
QVs are supposed to be better vehicles, don't try to use them as mechs

L-R: Ebony, Brahma, Parash, Kuma. The Parash only gets worse, as a later piece turns it into an ayy lmao.

that perspective though.

that is one of the ruined designs I mentioned
the tanks is supposed to have 3 tracks but you will never guess without looking at the original mini

Three tracks aside, the perspective on the tracks and the guns are just off with the hull anyway.

Really, the angle of the image probably should have been one that you could see it had three tracks in the first place, but those issues aren't new in BT. At least it wasn't a rear shot or something.

Doug was a fine, dedicated painter with a good eye for color and composition. He designed mecha with the flair and skill of a five-year-old African Grey parrot, a fact that seemed to escape CGL entirely.
Great at clothing design though.

In much the same way, Loose actually came up with a lot of basically good design ideas, but lacked the artistic flair to fill them out well (especially in 3050 and 3058). His work on games like Command and Conquer is rightly legendary, specifically because he did the design sketches and then handed them off to a full art team that reviewed and redrew them..

>a fact that seemed to escape CGL entirely.
Well, that's kind of unfair. I should say that it also escaped Topps and FASA, but you'd think that CGL/Fanpro would have >learned< from that mistake.

>Heck, I'd have loved 'Tanks that use mech rules for heat and Crits' as a HH invention

That's what Quadvees are though.

They gargle scrotums if you compare them to 'Mechs, but they allow vees to be designed with energy weaponry comparable to a 'Mech of the same mass.

the variants other than the 3C and 2C might as well not exist, they're garbage. my fuckup on misremembering the 2C's loadout, though.

anyway being well critpacked is not a bad thing, it's half of what makes the 3C so good

>topps
the mwda stuff looks fine on its own, when it doesn't have to fit in with other battletech stuff. it has a decent, unified look, especially when you move past the first couple of sets and get away from tonka mechs and the spike atlas.

it just doesn't fit with the tabletop aesthetic and both fanpro and cgl have lacked the kind of consistent art direction that could rework those designs (and all of the other mismatched shit dumped into the pile that is cbt)

>comparable
>lose a massive amount of tonnage to transformation gear

Wouldn't you just use chemical lasers?

Chemlasers are pretty nice, but their performance is only that of standard lasers, not that crazy goodness of Clantech lasers witch is major thing with quadvees beign a Clan toy. They can make for nice refits of old SW tanks with ICEs and lasers though, like the Bulldog.

>bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=54047.0

>i need to vent and find hugbox participants
>"conundrum"

jesus shit i hate the OF

Go to bed Danny.

>anyway being well critpacked is not a bad thing, it's half of what makes the 3C so good
There's a difference between being "well-packed" and "all your short-range weapons are in one torso location". The Cronus has 11 crittable slots in its LT, of which >seven< are "dump" crits - the SL, a DHS, and three jets. Only the XLFE slots and the ammo present a problem. The Starslayer 3C, by contrast, has a 1/6 chance of losing all its close range weapons and dropping 2 jets. Even losing a single jet drops it a TMM category, and half its torso slots are empty (only 2 slots) or ferro/endo. The CNS is better-packed in the CT and side torsos in every incarnation, and can afford to take considerably more critical hits in both the -3M and -5M models. The XL is still a huge problem, but it's kinda a risk I'm willing to take.
The STY is better at getting kicked, though, so there is that.

He's kind of a sperg and a gleeful troll IRL. I wouldn't be surprised if he's fucking with someone with that post.

Er, derp. I was talking about Fen's sales listing, not "Black Knyght".

..He needs to find a new group. Danny is a cunt. BK is whining but well within his rights to go "your standards are bullshit" here, and touching base to ask if that's part of BT culture is acceptable.

>pretty pretty warhansa King Crab..

I've always liked the starslayer, especially as a buddy for the griffin. The lousy armor really does bite it in the ass, though, especially with a weapon loadout that encourages closing as much as it does. My personal fix-refit for it is to trade the SRM-4 for armor and a ML; it's a decent bit more survivable, and you really don't loose much in the way of firepower
I think that the Cronus suffers from the same problem as many other 3025 retcon-mechs and vees, in that it simply doesn't show up on RATs for that era enough to give it any real exposure to the average player, and in later eras it mostly suffers from being unmemorable and 3060 illustration desease

Actually, looks like I goofed; pulling out the old record sheet, it looks like the refit was actually a MPL, standard armor (10.5 tons total) and trading the weird back-of-the-head SL for a forward mounted ML. Overall it seems pretty good, though now I'd probably exchange the MPL for two regular MLs, but that's just me

>He's kind of a sperg and a gleeful troll IRL. I wouldn't be surprised if he's fucking with someone with that post.

That strangely makes my night.

>I think that the Cronus suffers from the same problem as many other 3025 retcon-mechs and vees, in that it simply doesn't show up on RATs for that era enough to give it any real exposure to the average player, and in later eras it mostly suffers from being unmemorable and 3060 illustration desease
I agree whole-heartedly, hence the "uncommon 'mechs" prompt.

Not a bad refit, all things considered. One of the things I always >did< like about the STY (even though I personally think it's kinda ugly) is that it's not beholden to that whole "Ve must upgrade ALL ZEE WEPPINS" thing from the post-Star League designs. So it can actually mix regular MLs in with a weapon load that complements them, instead of blindly slamming a bunch of pulses on a design too slow to use them, or forgetting that standard LLs exist after 3050.

I agree that the Griff is a very good complement to either 'Mech, and they make competent replacements for the GRF-1S or the early Wolverine upgrades. Given the Unseen situation at the time, I suspect that the STY and CNS were deliberately intended to be such - like the Watchman was for the Phoenix Hawk.

>What's the point and purpose of QuadVees anyway?
DHS and actual critpadding on vees, more bang for the bay on dropships. Vehicles that can actually park themselves in heavy wood hexes. Also better pilot performance out of clan vee jocks.

Ontos IIC QuadVee

Mass: 95 tons
285 SFE: 16.5
IS: 9.5
Conversion Equipment: 9.5
Tracks: 9.5
Cockpit: 4
Compact Gyro: 4.5
6 DHS: 6
Armour: 16
1 Large Pulse Lasers: 6
8 ER Medium Lasers: 6
1 LRM-15 with 2 tons ammo: 5.5

1 LPL CT
4 ER ML each Side Torso
1 LRM-15 CT
2 LRM Ammo RT
2 DHS RT
3 DHS LT

Armour Allocation

Head: 9
CT: 37
CT (R): 10
LT/RT: 30
LT (R)/RT (R): 10
Fore-Legs: 30
Rear Legs: 30

I do think paying 20-25 per cent for conversion gear and tracs or wheels is bullshit, it should have only been 10-15 per cent tops. But then the Horses are being fuckhats and exploiting bidding and force organisation by claiming QuadVees are vehicles despite being much tougher, so maybe they don't need the help that much.

ERLLS UBER ALLES

HEAT SINKS BE DAMNED

We should really get transforming Tripod Mechs. Either a TriVee or a Tripedal LAM

>Tripedal LAM
Only if they turn into VTOLs that jump up and flip upside down and then spin their legs like rotors.

I love the Yeoman. It's just so cute with those silly legs and no arms and dopey looking face.

I do have one... but I've never used him. That's sad.

Well it's that, a Triebeflugel, or Pigma's fighter from Starfox.

To me the Yeoman's always been the derpy looking 'Mech I can't take seriously, just like the Dragon Fire with its dickgun.

For me it's always been the Black Lanner, or "Fat Duck Mech" as I call it.

CJF I love you so much... but why must some of your designs look so stupid!

The waddling Black Lanner in TRO3058U looks sort of adorable, but the CCG version looks absolutely hardcore.

To a degree, the Black Lanner's TRO issue is due to a crappy angle + pose.

But the CCG version is still the Best Lanner, yes.

Yeah that does look pretty bad ass. Shame the model looks nothing like that.

Question for everyone here.

I'm about to start a BTech campaign with 4 other players. They will each have a Lance, I will play Op4 (and sometimes they will play Op4 when we don't need all of them controlling 'Mechs).

I really liked the way MW4 Mercs had the 'sponsor' thing, where depending on who you chose you got special bonuses/better starting gear/whatever.

It's set 3037-3038, so mostly all intro stuff with the beginnings of L2 stuff. It's also a Chaos Campaign out of Campaign Ops with some mods (and ignoring the broken/non-functional Tech Rating score formula which doesn't work!).

I was thinking:

1. Wolf's Dragoons - Slightly higher rating, so more likely to get better contracts, maybe a bit more starting Warchest Points, and their commander gets a Marauder II as his starting ride.

2. Kell Hounds - Greater access to better pilots, so Greens at 4/5, Regulars at 3/4 maybe, for 50% more cost than standard Greens and Regs.

3. Northwind Highlanders. Can always come back to Northwind to get a big discount on repairs/rearming. Commander gets a Highlander to start.

4. Gray Death Legion. Earlier access to Star League era tech.

That's about all I got.

Hey I'm the newbro of the last thread I just get this.

How I did it?

Ah... Map Set #4. Better get used to them water rules...

One on the cover of FM: CC isn't bad either.

It was ultra cheap 10 european dollars

Transforming tripod LAMs that also combine into a superheavy.

>Its appropriately scaled
ftfy

>Given the Unseen situation at the time, I suspect that the STY and CNS were deliberately intended to be such - like the Watchman was for the Phoenix Hawk.
I always figured that the chameleon was supposed to be the replacement pixie

Good choices. And good taste in knives.

I have a copy of set 4 myself, it's a lot of fun.

The Chameleon was a pre-existing design from the Unseen era (much like the Longbow). Pic related, it's a modified VT-1D Valkyrie trainer. They were stuck in sourcebook Hell until after Fasa v. HG, and so they were two of the first "Reseen". For that matter, several of the things in '58 to '67 are retreaded or cleaned-up designs that had previously been sourcebook-only, or things that had been mentioned but never shown in the TROs.

>For that matter, several of the things in '58 to '67 are retreaded or cleaned-up designs that had previously been sourcebook-only, or things that had been mentioned but never shown in the TROs.
Guy who's just getting into the lore here, do you have a list of those mechs? It's always neat to learn about behind-the-scenes stuff like this

Thanks I'm some kind of kinvefag too.

You got the good intro box. I got the older one, the minis were shit.

Aside from the adventures of Justin Xiang, what's the sneakiest scheme/story in BT history?

67 is the biggest culprit.

Stiletto, Sha Yu, Tessen, No-Dachi, Lao Hu, Perseus, Templar, Akuma, Fafnir, Vanquisher, Hellfire, Savage Coyote, Blood Kite, and all the Warships first appeared in the Field Manuals.

In TR 3058 I think it's the BA that are from the Field Manuals but also has the Merlin and Chameleon. Devastator or something was from an old scenario pack too.

How the Wolverines were secretly in charge of ComStar/Wob all along.

>Devastator or something was from an old scenario pack

The DVS-2 Devastator, specifically, and it was first described in the McCarron's Armoured Cavalry pack. The Po tank and some other 'Mechs were also from the Big MAC book.

Just off the top of my head:
• Merlin (rulebook construction example, but never published)
• Everything in the Star League section of 3058 - published in various 3030s-3050s unit sourcebooks
• Longbow, Chameleon, Galleon: Reseen version of sourcebook-only units.
Most of the Clanner 3058 stuff and a lot of the IS omnis were initially designed for computer games and just getting canonized in '58 as well.

All right, I checked Big MAC and it was DVS-2 (can't remember where the downrated variant with AC/10s came from), Starslayer, Spector and Po.

And looking at the stats of the Devastator... I know it's exaggeration to say "everything's going the Fed Suns' way" but sweet Blake that's one unfair 'Mech in an age before the widespread SL tech explosion.

>unfair

Are there rules for dealing damage with thrown objects in battletech? I really want to kill a low flying VTOL by throwing a severed arm at it

I stand behind my words. A DHS'd twin gauss/twin PPC giant robot in the pre-3050 isn't cricket.

>Are there rules for dealing damage with thrown objects in battletech? I really want to kill a low flying VTOL by throwing a severed arm at it
TacOps, page 95