From what I understand, a Bitcoin inherently has value due to the electricity and other costs required to mine a Bitcoin into existence, in addition to the market forces of supply and demand making it reach $15K+.
However, do we really think a Bitcoin is worth $15K?
Don't get me wrong - I fucking hate fiat money.. but doesn't $15K seem too high for Bitcoin?
P.S. what are your thoughts about Bitcoin Cash? Will it one day overthrow Bitcoin?
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Because someone was willing to pay that money you fucking moron.
Sure, it's way too high
It will crash soon.
No shit, I just mentioned that.
But don't you think one day people will realise .. why the fuck am I paying $15K for internet money?
Those who buy now are being manipulated though. That's what happens when you speculate on a currency that has no real value and is as volatile as btc.
Somewhere probably in Wallstreet they are waiting for everyone to freak out when it drops
It's worth whatever people are willing to pay for it to use it, which will mean total supply divided by number of people using it, plus speculative value. The problem is that currently, it is only speculative value, so you're just as well taking the money to the casino and at least getting some comps out of it. Without an actual use, it is literally worth nothing.
I would argue though that it hold some value as the key to cryptos, due to the trading pairs. Unfortunately, we know as a fact that this isn't what is motivating the current price.
Exactly
So tell me when is it going to have the value that people are constanly asking? What makes it valuable or is it just always illusion?
It's always an illusion
Quads of truth
> How is bitcoin +$15k
its not
Just wait til the holidays over christmas, watch the sub numbers for exchanges like coinbase.
I'd guess if buy pressure keeps rising then the prices will keep going up
you'll see big rises but bigger retractions.
WHAT THE FUCK I BOUGHT AT 18.K WHERE DID MY MONEY GO
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this is like asking what makes the dollar valuable or gold. First, understand that the idea of money is made up. We all collectively agree a piece of paper with a number is worth x amount of burgers and it works because we all agree. Now look at bit coin and crypto. This is an emerging market, and the main currency of this market is btc. It's what everyone buys, and it funnels into the rest. As the market grows, so does the value of btc because of the amount of money in the market. Why btc though, it's old and slow? Because it's been tried and tested, and because it's old. It's the standard. Will people pay for gum with btc? Doubt it. But will people pay for gum using crypto which is tied to btc? Probably. Btc will rise as long as the entire crypto market rises. So it just all depends how high you see this going. 100k this time next year easy I believe, after that who knows.
dont be dramatic, it's a retraction, you're only at the start of an s curve
>wanted to FOMO and buy yesterday at 17.5k
>ATM didn't work
phew
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Depends on how LN gets implemented and what happens with control of development and how future direction is executed in general, which largely comes down to what Blockstreams intent is. From my knowledge of the crypto market, I would say that it is overvalued now and at some point will go down never to come back up, before it will ever actually be worth the current amount (i.e. it might go to 50k then die, but still, it isn't even worth 1k right now).
BCH might solve this. It certainly is taking the direction BTC should have taken, but in all honesty it might be a bit archaic at this stage.
shut the fuck up im selling
can go 30k by end of year with CME.
Screen shot this
>I fucking hate fiat money?
why?
>a Bitcoin inherently has value due to the electricity and other costs required to mine a Bitcoin into existence
This doesn't make sense.
If I leave the heating on in my house does the inherent value of my house go up due to the electricity and other costs required to heat it?
If a clothing company employs an extra 10,000 people to sit around doing nothing all day does this suddenly make the company's t shirts more inherently valuable?
If two companies are mining gold but one company is less efficient and its costs are twice as much, is 1oz of this company's gold inherently more valuable than 1oz of gold from the more efficient company?
Just because you spend money/resources on something doesn't mean it's inherently valuable
>How is bitcoin +$15k?
as of right now it isn't.
Down to 1475 GDAX sputtering
i only just bought bitcoins in october
The bubble is popping. It's going back to 1k.
>mfw its happening right now
Can we please start banning these threads
>From what I understand, a Bitcoin inherently has value due to the electricity and other costs required to mine a Bitcoin into existence, in addition to the market forces of supply and demand making it reach $15K+.
you dont understand a god damn thing, newfag. sit down, shut the fuck up and lurk before showing the whole board how retarded you are.
it costs $10 in burritos for me to shit out an ocean of diarrhea. does that mean my shit is worth $10?
the power usage probably only accounts for 1/3rd of the value of newly emitted coins. But there's a constant silicon shortage so everything's retarded.
durrrrr why else would you buy a stock? are you going to eat it?
you referring to the picture? You're seriously a retard if you don't understand what it means
He's not saying "the dumbest reason to buy a stock is because you think it's going to go up"
Why Tulips are better then Bitcoin...
I do understand where you're coming from - I actually thought the same thing after I wrote my initial post.
Would you say then, the reason Bitcoin's price is increasing is due to market demand?
... and market demand is being fueled by FOMO and speculation, and greater fool theory?
Nothing (literally nothing) has value other than what people think it does. The whole concept of money is just a mass delusion we all subscribe to because it brings order to the world and makes things tick
>From what I understand, a Bitcoin inherently has value due to the electricity and other costs required to mine a Bitcoin into existence
Actually, the cost of mining is more closely tied to the security model.
Proof of Work (Mining) is the means by which consensus on the state of the blockchain is reached. Effectively, the chain which is the longest (most blocks mined) is picked up by the network as being correct.
So, in order to alter the history of the chain 100 blocks back, I would need to go back and start mining from that block forward, one block at a time, until my blockchain with the fraud in it is longer than the main block chain, which would still be progressing forward.
This is where the hashing comes in, because I can't take shortcuts to get to parity with the main chain, as each successive block hash is a product of the previous hash, which I can only get by brute force guessing.
So in order for me to overtake the main chain with my fake blockchain and have the rest of the chain accept it, it should be clear that I would need to own at LEAST 51% of the network hashing power, as otherwise the main chain would just keep pulling away from me, and my chain would never be longer than the main one.
However, thanks to the cost of electricity and infrastructure to own 51% of the network hashrate, it is incredibly unlikely that anyone would have the resources to carry out this attack... and here's the really awesome game-theorish part...
Even if someone did have that much hashing power, the rigs they would need to buy are incredibly specialised for one thing only. Bitcoin mining. So in attacking the network for some small doublespend gain, I would have completely destroyed the value of the network by invalidating its security model, which would lead to a massive crash in bitcoin, leaving the millions (billions?) of dollars I have invested in the mining equipment as a total writing off.
... cont
There are only 16 million bitcoins and everyone wants one. do the math.
>be me
>buy at 14k
>whoa it's over 17k now
>go to sleep
>wake up
>it's dropping below 14k as we speak
>sell because pussy af
>earn nothing
guys I'm really shit at this
...cont
So now that you have an idea on what the cost of mining does for the network in terms of its security and NOT its valuation, what exactly is the asset which is underpinning bitcoin then?
The value of Bitcoin is being driven by the fact that it actually combines the payment system directly into the asset. Think about it. Every other monetary system or asset up to now in history needed other forms of transaction to be built on top. Bitcoin can model finite assets, while also allowing you to transfer them across the internet nearly instantly with as much freedom as if I was handing you a dollar on the street person to person.
>But don't you think one day people will realise .. why the fuck am I paying $15K for internet money?
People are willing to buy 15k for internet money because they think it'll be worth more afterwards
its okay. most newcomers usually lose money.
I lost 3k eur after my first month.
Now im up 3x my initial.
thank god
>he doesn't know what a trailing stop loss is
what exchange includes a trailing stop-loss? i use poloniex, my bad.
>how is an unregulated commodity $15k
Unregulated exchanges = pump and dumpers dream.
Nobody is "buying" $15k coins, it is rich fuckers buying it off themselves, then dumping on you
>the reason Bitcoin's price is increasing is due to market demand?
BTC = Pump n dump.
How hard is it to understand?
Some people are getting rich right now because of the dumbasseswho fall into it only now.
iqoption lets you close at a defined position
And the whole thing crashes on that day.
Would you rather have all the bitcoin or all the property in Sydney? Afaih, bitcoin is valued at more currently. This should be regarded as insane.
Property is safety.
Worth can only go up.
A man after Steve
youtu.be
>Would you say then, the reason Bitcoin's price is increasing is due to market demand?
Yes. It has no inherent value - it doesn't even function as a means of payment.
Perhaps there is something to the whole store of value meme. We will see. But it only remains a store of value for as long as people buy into it (i.e. demand), which feels a bit weak given how many other cryptocurrencies it has to compete with in the long run.
The whole electricity consumption thing is mad. Real coal and gas are being burned, real man hours are being spent manning power plants, actual resources are being consumed to 'mine' a digital currency. I just don't see how this can be justified going forward when there are far more efficient alternatives. The BTC dev team could in theory change this but the whole system is so sclerotic and the autists running it so stubborn that they'll never agree to such massive changes
when is this fucking utter shitcoin going to be functional again, some of us actually want to use it and not just stare at it and convince ourselves its a "store of value" like some cultist reddit cuck.
asked the site to accept litecoin anyways, most have made the switch already.
>BTC = Pump n dump
pretty eleborate for a pump and dump considering all the atms koisks and mining rigs involved.
>The whole electricity consumption thing is mad. Real coal and gas are being burned, real man hours are being spent manning power plants, actual resources are being consumed to 'mine' a digital currency.
I bet btc mining only uses fraction of electricity that world banks use.
>I bet btc mining only uses fraction of electricity that world banks use.
I bet it does. But there are cryptocurrencies that use a fraction of the electricity that BTC uses.
That's like saying a typewriter will never become obsolete because it's faster than a quill
Bitcoin is a revolutionary technology. If you are looking for one single reason to explain its market value, you are a brainlet.
>I bet it does. But there are cryptocurrencies that use a fraction of the electricity that BTC uses.
If you mean PoS, PoB and UBI those are still very immature. There's PoW coins that are less resource heavy though, so I agree.
bitcoin ==/== cryptocurrency
maybe fucking ten years ago btc was revolutionary, its been heavily outclassed since. Keep spending 20 dollars for a horse drawn buggy ride when you can get in a lambo for free.
DELET THIS NOW!
Bitcoin cannot be in a bubble because ownership is still very limited. When the stock bubble popped there were countless stock brokers where the public could easily buy and sell stock. Bitcoin doesn't have anywhere near that kind of infrastructure yet.
You somehow have to allocate your costs.
A better example would be an estate agent who has extra costs to aquire/sell an estate.
It is harder to mine bitcoins,
it is impossible to mine bitcoins at home, (without huge investments an also an huge risk and work).
You remember "proof of work"?
Well its also money that you control, that has no weight, is easy to transport etc. Meaning its value should be way higher. If people flee from war zones this is the best thing to store your money in. Gold is heavy and you can only take so much + you can get robbed. BTC's applications are far beyond what we currently imagine as we're still quite new to this.
your diarrhea cost you $10
If yomeone want to have you have diarrhea, or even want your liquid shit, he has to pay you $10 more.
You probably should also charge the time it needs to eat/shit that shit.
To me $15k seems very low. It's still practically free
coinbase #1 on the appstore, idiot
oh fuck I guess that means crypto has the same infrastructure as goddamn stocks have, right? Holy fuck.
This... Apparently people can't understand math or the fact that you don't have to buy a whole bitcoin, or that eventually you won't even be able to buy a whole coin unless you're rich as fucking shit.
There are 16 million Bitcoin right now and there will only ever be 21 million.
There are 7 Billion people on this planet.
You can go and imagine how much a Bitcoin would be worth if every single person used it as money.
Or try it the other way round. Imagine how much a Bitcoin would be worth if there was only a single one and people would only trade for fractions of it.
What you call a Bitcoin in the end is still only an arbitrary amount of Satoshi.
If we decided that a Bitcoin was 10 million Satoshi instead of 100 million a Bitcoin would be worth 1000 instead of 10000. It doesn't really matter.
I think a rebranding is coming soon anyway
And why didn't people ask themselves that question at 10k? Or 1k? Or 100?
Maybe by the time people ask themselves that question they also ask themselves why the fuck are they working for depreciating toilet paper instead of asking for electronic math based bartering commodity.
>Tfw Normies still don't know what a Satoshi is.
I think Bitcoin reached a value where it doesn't make sense to talk about Bitcoin anymore.
We should all adopt that we pay 10k Satoshi to buy something instead of 0.0001 Bitcoin
>When the stock bubble popped there were countless stock brokers where the public could easily buy and sell stock
When the Bitcoin bubble popped there were countless Bitcoin Exchanges where the public could easily buy and sell Bitcoin
Hype. It's backed by hype.
Hi fellow russian
okay i m going to explain how this pajeetcoin works
right now you are thinking that you buy lambo after cashing out(lmao), so you can wave it around other white people. but oh wait, THATS NOT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE REAL WORLD
IN THE REAL WORLD, PAJEETS ARE STEALING WHITE PEOPLES MONEY. you think "well at least i habe lambodamo ha ha!" , but the thing is, you would be driving it AROUND PAJEETS ONLY OVER DIRTY STREETS. while you did invest in pajeetcoin, you didnt invest in white people.
YOU TRADE TO MAKE BETTER WORLD FOR YOURSELF, BUT YET YOU ARE MORON ENOUGH TO INVEST IN PAJEETS HAVING MORE STREETSHITTER SPAWNS AND MAKING MORE PLAGUEINFESTED RIVERS TO WORSHIP CROSS THE GLOBE
THIS IS HELL, YOU PAID FOR IT
...
>Those who buy now are being manipulated
i think its more likely those buying now are the ones doing the manipulation
10 years. Bitcoin has been out for almost 10 years.
>No one uses it as a currency
>Everyone just hoards it
>Everyone thinks they will get rich from it
>Everyone hoards it even more
It ain't going anywhere. The few places that accept it are becoming fewer each day. At this point everyone is just hoping some other moron will pay them their money. Hoping the exchanges won't run off with their money before they can cash out.
The only people who think Bitcoin is going anywhere are deluded or they are scamming others into buying so they can have someone left holding the bags.
Cryptocurrency may go somewhere someday, but Bitcoin is just going into the ground. It may had a chance 5 years ago when people actually still used the thing to buy items. You know, what a currency is there for.
>Coinbase
>"countless"
k
>why the fuck am I paying $15K for internet money?
Why the fuck am I paying several thousands of dollars for some shiny rock?
Why the fuck am I paying 100 bucks for some paper that says "100 dollars" on it and has some pretty pictures?
Everything has as much value as people subjectively attribute to it, whether that is digital or physical goods. Maybe one day people won't value BTC as highly but people might also not value any given physical good at the price it is at right now.
>do we really think a Bitcoin is worth $15K?
New paradigm
The difference being that there is backing in that shiny rock and piece of paper (actually it's cotton rags, not paper). What backs Bitcoin? Hype and hype alone.
The network effect. Bitcoin is backed by the people who use it. The idea of Blockchain is to create value through democracy. It isn't comparable to things that are back by banks or the government. It's precisely valuable because it doesn't NEED a bank or a government you need to trust to back it. It's valuable because you know that you actually possess it, that nobody controls it and that you still know that every single Bitcoin in the network is real and every single transaction actually happened.
Asking what gives Bitcoin value is like asking what gives Facebook its value. It's valuable by the mere fact that people use it. And it only increases in value as long as people join
What even is this incoherent babbling?
It's increasing due to hype and because the currency only seems to be deflating, so people will hoard it because they don't want to lose out on extra shekels if they spend it early.
>what gives Facebook its value
Facebook isn't valuable because a lot of people use it, it's valuable because it can show these people ads, sell their personal data and manipulate consensus.
>Asking what gives Bitcoin value is like asking what gives Facebook its value. It's valuable by the mere fact that people use it. And it only increases in value as long as people join
The difference is that Facebook is a social media website. There is many social media sites that have came and went. Bitcoin is a currency....that isn't even used as a currency.
I'm sorry, no one trusts Bitcoin. No one trusts the exchanges. There are fees everywhere. If you want your transaction to go anywhere anytime soon it's $50 worth of Bitcoin. Everyone is trying to get rich quick. None of that is quality of success.