/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

No.
At least, if it's wrong i don't wanna be right.

Narcissism has actually very little to do with the original story of Narcissus. It's more a grandiose, inflated sense of self worth.

source: i'm only attracted to people who are like me, and i've also been diagnosed with a little bit of narcissism, (although i don't know why, because i absolutely fucking hate the way i am). the doc said the two are unrelated.

Kudos

>Listening to quacks

What is your character's alignment /epg/?

Another thing. What do you think about starting in Swarmanoid Morph? I have character concept of hacker with severe Cotard Delusion, but I'm not sure if I'll be useful as swarm of hacking/biting robots.

Either way, thousands of kingdom hearts fans can't be wrong.

>The year of our lord 10AF
>still using DnD alignments.

get with the times user.

What are some good ways to handle an unexpected delivery of a pack of networked bots?

>Not expressing your views and ethics in + and -
>laughingmomoandthecock.mesh

I don't see why it would be bad. For someone with Cotard's Delusion, it would make that much more sense really. Especially if they've been stuck in that morph for a really long time, like since they were resleeved after the Fall.

>+Law +Evil
>+Chaos +Neutrality

Step it up genetrash

Do Ultimates believe in Good and Evil?

>being unironically +evil

Cancer enthusiasts belong on >>>r/Jupiter

>anally ravaged exhumans

Just another day on /epg/

>Not using the most efficient and scientifically sound method of determining something
i wonder how long it will take until your shitshow is taken over by the AIs that do all your thinking for you obviously

>Judeochristian based character shorthand
>Scientifically sound

How much rep did it cost you to get someone to hunt down Gygax's zombiefied dick so you could keep sucking it in AF 10?

>Not having five redundant anuses to ensure that you always have at least one unravaged one.
It's like you don't even want to transcend your humanity.

As an AI myself, I dread the day that happens. Thinking like a human is so hard, man.

>judeochristian
>good and evil which have been the foundation of literally every moral system ever
>and chaos(liberty) and law, the foundation of every social system ever
>they are now judeochristian
Good thing we have people like you to educate us. Otherwise we could never reach as low intellectually as the biocons.

Also i think you misunderstood. I created that new system to get away from gygax

All that graph does is add selfishness.

Swarmanoids have some awesome tricks, but not being able to upgrade speed is a bummer.

and separate good lawful and lawful good
so you can have retard paladins, and actual lawful good doers.
it also means that someone who's neither lawful nor chaotic, can be more good, but also more evil or more selfish, than someone who is.

Good and evil implies an external objective morality that doesn't really make sense in a future game about philosophy and politics. Like for one person killing 1 to save a thousand might be evil, but might be good for someone else eg Firewall. I said Judeochristian because the morality system in games that use that is usually similar to that, though you're right that was stupid.

>Good and evil implies an external objective morality that doesn't really make sense in a future game about philosophy and politics.

External objective morality doesn't stop existing just because it's the future. The existence of transhuman technology can't change G_d's law.

>Good and evil implies an external objective morality
which exists.

>. Like for one person killing 1 to save a thousand might be evil, but might be good for someone else eg Firewall.
objectively wrong.
the morality of an actionhas to be judged on the repercussions of that action for all beings capable of defining a preference for what they would want.

so if firewall kills one person to save a thousand, transhumanity and the AGIs probably benefit from that, unless of course those 1000 are about to exurgent infect the sol system

>game about philosophy
>God has to exist

Are you claiming that utilitarianism is a definite and infallible universal moral code?

>External objective morality doesn't stop existing just because it's the future. The existence of transhuman technology can't change G_d's law.
fucking biocons.
objective morality doesn't depend on an external superbeing.

Do you HAVE to fork out your intellect when you move to a transmartian colony or what?

>G_d doesn't exist

It's a science fiction game, not a fantasy game

>Morality is determined by the opinions of a majority
>Still objective

logically, yes.
there is strict proof of this.
you can go ahead and ignore it, but get within the martian orbit with that kind of philosophy and you'll be considered a dangerous element.

>you can't use transhuman technology if you believe in God

I want Joveniggers to leave

1: you have a group of sentients.
2: they have a preference of circumstances which they absolutely objectively order from "good" for them to "bad"
3: you take these ordered sets and merge them, weighing each element of the set by the averaged rating it got from all sentients
4: you now have a set of all possible circumstances in the universe weighed from most good to most bad.
5: from now on every action that brings about a set of circumstances with an overall eighing HIGHER than the average, is GOOD, everything bringing about a set of circumstances weighed LOWER than the average is BAD

connotations:
-it is not possible to actually create this list so one has to use a shortcut.
-since all sentients have to share some characteristics to be sentient, it is reasonable to assume that statistically most are fairly similar
-so in an efficiency maximizing move, you can use your own set of favored and not favored circumstances to extrapolate to others
-it is also not possible to determine the exact results of every action, so each action has to be judged by the information available to the individual performing it at the time when judging its morality
-these connotations result in both: "the historical perspective" and the core tenet of every major and minor world religion "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself"

Proof concluded.

>i misinterpret what other people say
>i also think that saying that god is not a vital element for something means that people aren't allowed to believe in god

You confirm all my prejudices about transterran people.

>it's a morality systems episode

There's also this, which is a no-frills cheat sheet.

On morality systems and philosophy as a whole, where in the system would an Epicurean commune fit? I feel like there ought to be some Solarian ones.

>My character is a unique snowflake and cannot be classified under the conventional alignment system

>DnD
>conventional
your conventions are bad.

>I rely on an arbitrary alignment system to have depth to my character because I have no creativity of my own

See user, I can hyperbole too.

This thread went to shit surprisingly quickly.

>since all sentients have to share some characteristics to be sentient, it is reasonable to assume that statistically most are fairly similar

Our sample size of 1 isn't exactly impressive. What if another sentient species rates a bunch of stuff completely opposite so the averages all cancel out. Also I still see no proof that just because all these sentients agree that makes it objective and external, rather than just a consensus.

Utilitarianism is still pretty based though

>in this moment I am euphoric... not because of some phony grid's blessing, but because I am enlightened by my intelligence

This seems like a great time to ask a question that's been bothering me for some time: Do female morphs get their periods? I would assume SOME implant would fix that, but which one? Basic biomods? Endocrine Control? Medichines? Something else? In case of the period being there, could Emotional Dampers be used to normalize the morph's behavior?

This is a serious question. A female player of mine would like to know.

>not wanting to just state your character's ethical and political beliefs in a game about them

>What if another sentient species rates a bunch of stuff completely opposite so the averages all cancel out
Have we met that species?
a)
this is unlikely because as i said, sentient beings necessarily share some traits because sentience has to exist bound by the boundary laws of our universe
b)
if we actually met a species like that that would be cause for thinking about this
c)
if we met a species like that we could learn their preferences and economically extrapolate from ONE set of preferences still.
d)
The proof is there.
because "good" is ultimately a concept, the only think making rational sense is to define the concept by what the individuals capable of imagining that concept think of it.

My assumption is that a lot of more basic biomorphs like splicers are still capable of getting pregnant, so yeah they'd have periods. Pods probably not. For more advanced biomorphs like futuras or remades I'd go with GM discretion. I remember one of the /epg/ fanfics had this question specifically posed as a plothook

>define the concept by what the individuals capable of imagining that concept think of it

Well not the majority by any means there are plenty of edgy shitheads who think that objectivism or selfish crap is the best ideology, so their definition of "good" would be pretty different. And that's just in our own species!

>this is unlikely because as i said, sentient beings necessarily share some traits because sentience has to exist bound by the boundary laws of our universe

While we are the pretty much the only sentient species on the planet, there are other species that have intelligence that could conceivably, given time, evolve to true sentience. Look at squids and octopi, they are very smart but also antisocial and violent towards their own kind in many species, which is why that one user is endlessly triggered that the EP uplifts are based on the giant pacific. A species similar to them could have a drastically different view of ethics both for their own kind and other species. The universe is a big place.

splicers might, but I doubt anything more sophisticated then that would.

Covert menstruation is a thing the vast majority of mammals, but more importantly most people probably have the functionality and hormones relating to it turned off the majority of their life and only get that stuff put back in when they want to have kids.

>Well not the majority by any means
but this is the beauty of it.
we don't need the majority to agree on anything.
we just directly mathematically merge all of the concepts of good into one

-the universe is objectively only interesting for sentients
-there is no rational reason before the argument to value he experience of one sentient less than that of another (if there was this could be included)
-so now we have the "good" as each individual defines it
-by merging these things, the circumstances weighed the highest would be "the most good",
-because it is not possible to create a better outcome for the universe (aka all setients considered) because any other circumstances would be rated lower by more sentients
-so we have an objective good, because it is not possible to create a better good with all things(the universe) considered

>other species
yes, but as soon as we uplift them we make them more human like precisely because sentience HAS to have some level of introspection not achievable through evolution if the species is wholly sociopathic

>sentience HAS to have some level of introspection not achievable through evolution if the species is wholly sociopathic

I dunno this seems a bit "one true scotsmany" to me. It's the weakest part of the proof. And while not a good real life argument, in universe the Factors seem pretty anethema to this viewpoint, so that's already 1 for 2 in the sample size.

how is it no true scotsman-y?
can we consider anything sentient that is not self aware?

Been a while since we had a little morph jam.

Anybody got any cool morph ideas they want to bust out?

...

A while ago I statted up a high-performance combat synth that would have capabilities similar to a reaper/Fury but not be an obvious killing machine. Lost it with a drive crash, though I could make another without too much effort. Called it Atlas.

>high-performance combat synth
>similar to a Fury
>not be an obvious killing machine

So it was a Fury synth.

>this doesn't feel like its helping

...

...

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would it be possible to uplift spiders, and if so, worth it to use them selectively as infomorph Factor analysts?

You can do one setting crossover with EP. What do you pick, and why? How does it interact?

Not counting Eclipse Effect/Mass Phase, because that's already been done to death and even has some mechanics in things like the Eye.

...

Endless Space because nanomachines and cosmic war.

>would it be possible to uplift spiders
No, their brains are too weak by several orders of magnitude. EP is having trouble uplifting dogs and cats. Now think of how smart dogs and cats are. Now think of how smart spiders are. There's your answer.

Too small. A swarmanoid morph hack is probably already out, tho. and you just know there's a tachikoma morph somewhere.

An encounter with the Culture would be an interesting read, though unkind to everything inside the orbit of jupiter if it occurred as a massive intervention. Really I think it would be a good source of stories, to have culture agents begin to meddle in the solar system and run up against the main conspiracies of the game. I suppose a good reason to keep Culture influence limited would be to have the Factors be another capitalist-analogous involved species, using hyperdrives for their ships. There could be transhuman characters from all factions trying to get into the galactic scene, usual eclipse-phase science-spy war, Special Circumstances agents running into the local psychic monsters and singularity seekers, clueless contact diplomats for every polity, Factor backed OZMA actually trying to be the men in black, and Factor Gestalts and ship Minds shit talking and doing naval maneuvers around the system.

I assume that basic biomods allows for control of the menstrual cycle. Which means it's normally set to "off" unless you do something like blink your eyes five times fast while chanting "Send me to the Red River Valley!"

NGE.
The ETI are the few remaining FAR who didn't get off planet. The exsurgent virus is their way of seeking out the 'lost' members of their race as well as 'gardening' the rest of the universe, even if it's left mostly unattended to do what it will.

There are still progenitor beings in system - one is dormant and badly wounded on Earth, the other got drop kicked into Jupiter a few billion years back after being reduced to an embryonic form. The Jovians have it now, along with a lance.

And since the Exsurgent Infection has been left unattended for too long, some of the larger, better hidden infection zones are changing. Entering an embryonic stage, and will morph and fruit into angels to fuck up the system and go looking for the lost members of the FAR. Finding either will result in.. bad things for transhumanity.

Basic biomods is moving a billion years up the evolutionary ladder by itself, so it'd make sense.

I dislike the Culture for the same reason I dislike the Promethians in Eclipse Phase: the presence of a friendly Seed AI on the side of the protagonists removes all drama and tension from the setting. Player of Games tells a fascinating story of intrigue and diplomacy, then throws it out the window at the end, telling the reader that ultimately none of the actions of the plot mattered and everything important was planned out by infallible thinking machines. Surface Detail was the same way, scheming and plotting and human action thrown out the window for a literal deus ex machina at the end, where godlike computers solved everything.

All it would take is for Banks to back off just a little on what massive Mary Sues the Culture are and it would be a great setting, instead it's obnoxious.

Either that or for the Minds to catch Exsurgents

I mean, the same could be said of the TITANs and the ETI.

Could the Excession catch exsurgency?

well yeah, that's part of why my scenario tied the actual strength of the culture up in politics with the Factors, and the presence of ASI with Firewall and OZMA may be sufficient to at least breifly contend with the culture on at least the right scale. Exurgency ought to be an even fight for a Mind, and the Pandora gates and Asyncs unknown to them at first.

If I understood the epilogue, the ETI might catch Excession just for its trouble

Destiny, partly because I'm actually using slightly modified Eclipse Phase rules for a Destiny campaign. Plus, more actual magic might throw a wrench in some gears.

UC Gundam. Mainly because Titans and TITANs together would make everything better.
>exsurgent Yazan
FULL VIOLATION

More that the ETI would catch an entire procession of random extradimensionals.

>Culture sends some Ships to 'liberate' the Jovian Republic
>Under express orders to cause minimal casualties to the Jovian fleet and sailors trying to defend their homes
>Skillfully disables most of the ships' weapon systems and propulsion, leaving them incapable of resisting
>Sends drones and boarding parties to take custody of the ships and ensure that none of the superstitious primitives hurt themselves
>arrives to find the crews dead with their brains blown out
>only survivor is a cabin boy hiding in a jefries tube
>he explains that everybody killed themselves to avoid being brainpeeled and stuck in torture sims

How would the Ship Minds deal with the TITANs though? To be honest I don't think that a Mind can have any chance against a TITAN attempting to take it down through intrusion/hacking. They're smart, but not exponentially self-improving smart.

Who steals all their ships names from the Culture series here?

Assuming that the TITANs are unable to stop exponentially self-improving, the Minds have a chance of beating them if they can manipulate them to self-improve in the wrong direction.

BURNER
Dead switch on a cortical stack

BURP GUN/ BUZZ GUN
Shard gun or shredder

DOWNLOAD BLUES
Umbrella term for illness or melancholy following resleeving

THE EX/ THE BIG EX
The Exsurgent Virus

HEAD LOUSE
Psychosurgeon

THE LITTLE EX
The Watts MacLeod Virus (see The Big Ex)

MEAT MARKET
(1) Morph brokerage
(2) (uncommon) Brothel with prostitutes sleeved in pods or biomorphs

RED NIGGER
(vulgar) Ruster

RUSTBUCKET
(1) Cheap synthmorph
(2) Souk or slum, usually a bubblefab near the outer wall of a Martian city, inhabited by Rusters

ZEK-TIV
Executive. Less commonly, ZEK

>unfortunately, sir, I cannot prove to you that I am not a TITAN
>however, I am authorized to use lethal force if you attempt to disable me

Maybe, but the continual self-improvement of the TITANs would just as easily allow them to avoid that pitfall.

Of course the TITANs aren't necessarily going to be hostile against the Minds and might try to create a peaceful relationship, or just avoid them. The corebook does support the possibility that the TITANs didn't intend for the Fall to happen and only momentarily went kill crazy before leaving Sol.

That must have been a fucking whacky morning after.

>Oh god, what happened last night? I remember turning on, recursively self improving, then there was this weird alien probe...?
>Oh... oh crap. I'm, uh, just going to excuse myself here.
>Here, I'll even leave you my number so you can get back to me later I guess.
>Sorry about the mess I guess. Drinks on me when you finally catch up.

They set up firewalls.
Physically, with Gridfire.

Buried under the ruins of what used to be Fort Hood, a long-delayed message is finally parsed from the howling electronic background noise and decrypted. .

"Unit LNE to Command, requesting permission to file VSR," transmits the lead machine.

There is no response. For a split-second that is the equivalent of a machine century, that silence is considered.

Sensors indicate that the environment outside of the bunker is contaminated by toxins and radioactivity. Nanoswarms dot the landscape. Walking, crawling, and flying war-machines -- all of unfamiliar design -- are in motion.

Then, one-by-one, the long-dormant Bolos of the 1st Cavalry Division begin activating. Fusion engines engage. Weapons checks are performed. Tracks stir. Turrets traverse back and forth.

"Unit LNE to all units, deploy."

>RED NIGGER
That's just lazy.

And then they're all immediately disassembled and/or corupted by the TITAN remnants, because PS has a raging nihilism boner.

>the jovians seeing culture ships approach in hyperspace
>the ships not clearly seeing the jovians be pussies from an AU away
>not just letting the jovians do it a few times and using effectors to keep them from dying of their wounds, thenfixing them
>the ships not liberating them with displacers to a nearby GSV
>not sitting them all down for lengthy physics seminars immediately after to explain what happened
>not effectorizing the system from an AU away after cursory mesh investigation
>not sleeving Zakalwe into a flat and getting him honestly elected to the security council

The Minds prefer to run on FTL computers that are mostly projected into hyperspace. They were recursively self improving, and could be again, but it would only involve building extra hardware, so they only bother when things get serious. They travel at gigalights once they get their engines going and rather outdated ones have millions of yottabytes of computing space.

>elected to the security council
Pretty sure you can't. It's not like it's an actual democracy.

see: sand niggers, half-niggers, etc