Pathfinder General /pfg/

I've never played a magus, I don't like the prepared casting ;-;

So what you're saying is, you'd like a Magi archetype that uses Spont. Casting that isn't shit like Eldritch Scion?

brb, gonna work on that

...

Pretty good, last session was interesting
>begin descent into Osirion tomb
>open a door
>"there's no way they would trap a hallway, people use those!"
>hallway was trapped
>fighter and warder get hit and have to chug potions, commenting on the taste
>this begins the discussion on various characters' eating habits, including swearing not to eat the Witch's cardinal familiar
>begin traipsing through the tomb, disarming traps and observing strange magical artefacts including a mirror that makes everyone look like a middle-aged osirion man
>eventually come to a large room with a sarcophagus
>detects as magical
>everyone ooc assumes it's trapped
>only one member of the party actually says so, is ignored
>surprise, it was trapped
>3/5 of the party is now locked in a rapidly flooding room with an animated object sarcophagus
And that's how the session ended.

>mfw my homunculus can finally speak
>mfw the party gets hear her first vocalized words
>mfw those words are "HOT! HOT!", screamed as she's sprayed by a black dragon's acid breath, chunking her from full to 1/3rd hp

Game's been going pretty good aside from the random encounter table deciding it hated us. Shattered Star has been fun despite the flaws.

Likewise. I'd kill for a Psionic Magus. You can get pretty close with PsyWar, I guess. I've just never been able to stand Vancian, although I do like it okay on the Occultist where it actually feels... fitting? Even then I like Shattered Mind better

>mfw a concept I like is shackled to fucking Vancian again

More spoilers from the Paizo threads
>The feats are amazing! There's one that allows you to invite a spirit in for an hour per level by conducting a one-hour seance. It grants you ranks in a skill equal to your level, and the skill is treated as a class skill. Possessed Hand and its follow-on feats are great- I really love that it's particularly tempting for Rogues, since the combo implies a very interesting character.

>Some nice archetypes, too. Alchemist can get a bunch of spells on their list at a very low trade cost. The Witch archetype is really neat- I won't say no to ignoring 10 SR at high levels and getting +9 to concentration checks while I'm at it.

>EDIT: Pact Wizard gets faster spell prep, a Witch patron, an Oracle curse at half progression, and a bunch of roll-twice related abilities.

Unfortunately no.

They really need a sorcerer magus.

Mhm, I even asked paizo and their answer for why they kept making me suffer through more vancian casting classes/archetypes was "You know what you did"

BUT user, ELDRITCH SCION ALREADY EXISTS

: ^)

Can we leave this in the dying thread and not pollute the fresh one? Please?

...

There's always the mindblade or whatever it's called.

I'm certain you guys have seen this already, but wowzers.

The Soulknife?

Well... Some of what you can do with gifted blade defaulting, or at least a living legend, might be considered somewhat close... With the right bladeskills you can get yourself some cones and blasts and shit. Go into the Paragon Blade (I think that was the name?) PRC and you can take that a step further.

But... I dunno... I'm no fan of the magus but I don't think it would fit quite right for magi.

>some of our players are literal "dare you enter my magical realm?" degenerates, so the least we can do is have a half page of "no, having every female PC be raped before the end of the first session is not OK".
I don't see the problem with it. It doesn't' say you CANT have it. Just to not surprise them with it. Fairly well written honestly.

Uh, is there anything wrong with that? That all seems fine to me.

No, it's a magus archetype. They're basically a soulknife ripoff, but they also get spontaneous casting, albeit from a shittier list.

Psychic Warrior wasn't you're cup of tea I take?

Well, I mean, all of us have shit we don't like, or lines we don't want crossed... But it's rather sad that everyone needs to wear silk-covered velvet mittens to avoid harming anyone.

The stuff I hate the most is the brainrapey stuff like helms of opposite alignment, but you'd never see me throw a fit about one being in the game. At most, what it means is I won't play a character who mass-produces the things or liberally uses one, and my character will probably react violently to attempts to get him to wear one.

Like, sure okay, I don't stand for that shit, but, we're playing a game, and exploring the dimensions of stuff that may not make us comfortable makes us think and grow as a person.

tldr; gaming is in and of itself a safe space because you are not your character, so whatever happens to them doesn't happen to you, so stop fucking freaking out, I guess.

>Rituals
Earthbound Ward lets you create markings that prevent creatures of a particular type/subtype (usually a particular outsider subtype or undead) from entering the area physically for twenty-four hours, as long as the markings aren't disturbed; creatures who the markings prevent against can't directly interfere with them, but could potentially do so indirectly.

Exorcise Haunt lets you instigate a psychic duel with a haunt; successfully defeating it destroys it without needing to perform the usual destruction action.

Harvest the Defiled Soul allows you to do evil things to a haunt or undead to produce material components for either spellcasting or creating magic items related to enchantment or necromancy.

Voice of the Damned gives you a cryptic clue about how to permanently destroy a given haunt.

Well, if a spot opens up in mine, I'll contact you. You're still in the IRC, right?

I mean... that's sensible? Yeah, you want to make your players feel uncomfortable about what's happening to their characters, but that can be accomplished without being shitty to actual human beings.

PsyWar's pretty decent, but it has some flaws. Also, it's a *bitch* to optimize a Traceur.

>Like, sure okay, I don't stand for that shit, but, we're playing a game, and exploring the dimensions of stuff that may not make us comfortable makes us think and grow as a person.
And it's telling you to tell players that this the the type of game I'm running. That way the players get to decide if they want to run it or not. People like different game styles, there's nothing wrong with that. Let them know ahead of time so they can decide to join or drop.

Yeah, still messing around in there, feel free to hit me up there or elsewhere, since I'm pretty prolific.

Oh. Well that's just sad

A 'call the blade' type pathwalker with support from the sleeping goddess feats would be able to call in all sorts of weapons, auto-enchanted from doing so, no less, for very cheap (even zero if not going full power) all day long.

They have plenty of weapon-carried spells and the like too.

I'm interested in getting a transformy spellcaster that changes into all sorts of monsters.

Sythesist seems to be the guy for me at first glance but the alchemist and magus seem equally cool.

Which of the three would make for a better transformer?

I realize druids would be an obvious choice to some but generic monsters dont do it for me and the druid doesnt have monstrous physique in its list.

um, what?
4362 here.
again.
what???

You tagged the wrong post bruh

If you want to change how you transform then I don't recommend synthesist, because they can only move around their evolution points each level up (I believe.) I know you said no druid, but just fluff how you change your forms when you do.

I... wasn't disagreeing with it?
I do think that's a very longwinded statement and wish the kineticist would get half as much space for their crap, but I was commenting neutrally?

you may have gotten the wrong guy.

I'm going to agree with and here. It seems fine to me too. You obviously don't like it because you called it "tumblr adventures" for some reason.

Would you mind explaining what parts of it bother you?

My bad.

>get caught samefagging
Welp shit. That is embarrassing.

What would you think of me if you knew how many arguments I started with myself here to get the thread going?

What?
...I didn't accuse anyone of samefagging?

You know, arguing with yourself is a sign you may need help, user

I know, me, but sometimes I just want to try to steer the thread to a better direction and this is the best way to do it. I hope I understand.

Guys? what if the fighter class never existed and no class got bonus feats?

How would this change the way feats are balanced?

>Fighter class never existed
Then there would be less npc classes in the game?

in that case feats would be closer to Fantasy Craft, with metamagics being multiability packages.

the ones that help shit like skills and sneak attack would still be tiny pathetic and worthless.

And the combat feats would be no different except those that can be applied to spells.

Pretty much what said.

I get that it's important that you and the DM have an understanding of where the story is going to go, but there's always a point where
you are going to hate a session or two, and you just have to white-knuckle it.

Though I will agree, has a good counter point.

>How's your game going /pfg/?

I think I'm ready (or as ready as you can ever be) to begin. I just need to get enough players. Hard to do when we're trying to keep That Guy out of this campaign.

>Pact Wizard gets faster spell prep, a Witch patron, an Oracle curse at half progression, and a bunch of roll-twice related abilities.

And what does this cost him...?

8 banned schools.

Get used to it. The Kineticist is the closest thing you're ever going to get to a non-Vancian caster from Paizo, and that's entirely intentional on their part.

Hi. got redirected here from the 5e general. they said you all used to play 3.5 and could help me.

first time playing dnd, all my pals play 3.5 so this is what its gonna be.

starting out as a lvl 1 wizard, wondering what feats i should get and what i should specialize in.

i already have a conjurer in the party so i figured transmutation would be Ok, then drop evocation and necromancy?

i'm playing NG and am going to be a go-along guy, just try to insulate myself from damage and help out where i can. y'know, gandalf style. i was considering specializing in abjuration but apparently there arent a lot of good spells at higher levels.. anyway i'd love it if you guys would point me in the right direction in terms of starting feats and what specialization to choose.

btw i have a quarterstaff, dagger, casting equipment pouch (or whatever its called), and some travellers robes to start. im also thinking about an owl for my familiar.

>inb4 newfag
New GM to Pathfinder... I've played 3.5 for most of my gaming experience and its the only game system I have ran. Is there anything I can do to improve my sessions and get my players to really get into the game mechanics, world, etc?

So what does the Rivethun Spirit Channeler do?
And are Wendo spirits available outside the Uda Wendo archetype?
A more general question being are there any new spirits that are not tied to an archetype?

But isn't the kineticist fucking terrible without 3p?

I think that was the point, yes.

Nah, knowing Paizo it'll just replace Scribe Scroll or something. You'll even still get to keep Arcane Bond or whatever.

It's not even like a "boohoo, Paizo doesn't make good stuff" thing, it's just that Paizo literally avoids non-Vancian magic systems unless they're kept extremely simple, because their main engine for growth is PFS and they don't want to tax the GMs by forcing them to learn more than one set of rules for magic. That's why psychic magic is basically indistinguishable from arcane magic, with the emotion components just acting as direct analogues to somatic components.

It's not even like mana points are difficult to learn, they've literally been a part of rpgs for years.

I don't disagree, I'm just noting that it is what it is.

I was so disappointed when the charisma druid was even less spontaneous than a normal druid ;-;

No it isn't.

At the same time though, I'd say it's probably more powerful. Cherry-picking enchantment and illusion spells off the wizard list is a pretty crazy ability.

Okay, how is it not terrible?

Eh, dropping to half bab, getting nerfed wildshape (and getting it later, I believe?) and losing SNA as a spontaneous spell? I don't think that's worth it for a few spells.

Having only two good 1pp options for optimizing into low T4 does not count as being good

It can do what a zen archer can do.

Your_headcannon_is_powerless_here.jpg

Well, proper caster druids - which is what you're in Feyspeaker for - don't care about BAB because what few attack rolls they'll be making are touch attacks, and while Wildshape hurts a caster druid doesn't really want to be in melee to make use of the ability anyways. losing spontaneous SNA hurts, but nothing stops you from preparing it anyways, in exchange for getting one of the very, very few ways to actually expand your spell repertoire.

Ha ha ha no it fucking can't. It's damage is between feeble and slightly above passible, while the zen archer deals enough damage to kill god.

fuck off builposter

don't feed buildposter

archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43294723/#43300120

Hey I'm being super nice this time.

...so slightly above passable damage, got it.

>There are a few feats that look like they may help with this concept [of a witch who is haunted by her dead twin sister]

Well, there is the previously mentioned Possessed Hand feat family. The art there shows a woman with a hand that has a huge eyeball in its palm.

There is also a feat that gives you a permanent Unseen Servant with a scaling strength bonus.

>Psychic discipline details?

I need to take care of some other stuff, but I figured I'd mention that the Psychic discipline is nothing to get excited over. You get some specific swift action cantrips (3+Cha uses per day), Cha to some overly-specific saves, and the ability to use damaging mental spells against haunts and undead. The first level ability is nice at low levels, but that's about it.

How about these?

No idea, sorry. Just copying stuff from the Paizo board.

>At will fly
>960ft at-will teleport, or 109 MPH travel.
>76 damage @ 960ft, no range penalty and no burn
>76 damage + entangle @ 240ft, no range penalty and no burn
>76 damage + stagger @ 60ft, no range penalty and no burn
>can take one burn to add 50% damage to any of those attacks

>slightly above passable damage

I know it hurts to be wrong but think of it as a learning experience.

You don't have the perception to attack that far away.

>Having only two good 1pp options for optimizing into low T4 does not count as being good

He has the perception to attack at the same range the zen archer can, with a higher +hit because there is no range penalty.

>Goalposts being moved

I don't recall people arguing the bonuses of Zen Archers by talking about ranges they have no way of ever actually hitting.

One build that's entire trick is attacking further away than most encounters take place is a really weak goal post. And again, that's one element. No other element can reproduce those result so again...

>Having only two good 1pp options for optimizing into low T4 does not count as being good

Okay, thats nice and all, but just because there is one or two good ways to play doesn't make the class good.

Otherwise pre-WMH Fighters would be considered higher tier.

If a class can only shine via a singular highly optimized build that must be repeated almost constantly with almost no deviation, then its not a good class, but rather a one-trick pony with too much pointless window dressing.

>Being moved
Are you actually retarded?

>At-Will Fly
So... any caster.
>Teleport
So... any caster.
>Damage
So... any caster or archer, except they'll have higher to-hit, damage, and better special abilities.
>Damage
See Above.
>Damage
See Above.
>Burn
Yeah, let me just take my level in unhealable non-mitigateable damage to do vaguely passable damage. Meanwhile, any character that just takes archery feats and grabs a composite bow, and puts even a little effort into optimization which won't sacrifice the rest of their build will outdo me heavily. And that's before other class features come into account.

Well, let's be fair, casters DO have to spend spell slots and shit to fly and teleport.

Unless they're sphere casters but if you have spheres of power why the FUCK would you be playing a kineticist instead of an Elementalist?

>claims goalposts being moved
>despite that its a reiteration of one of the original goalposts that was never addressed in the first place
Sasuga shitposter
I know it hurts to realize how wrong and how much of a mong you are. Think of it as a learning experience

Then ignore the range if you want to. It's not that important and doesn't come up much. The 76 damage + stagger is really powerful. Stagger is a hell of a condition to be able to put out once per round with no cost.

>One build that's entire trick is attacking further away than most encounters take place is a really weak goal post.
Again, Ignore the range. It is very competent in melee too.

And there is a earth build that focuses on having huge reach and damage. Let me find the link.

>Okay, thats nice and all, but just because there is one or two good ways to play doesn't make the class good.
It's a shit class. Terribly written with tons of trap options. It is mechanically competent though.
>Otherwise pre-WMH Fighters would be considered higher tier.
The archer version of them is tier 4 I recall.
>If a class can only shine via a singular highly optimized build that must be repeated almost constantly with almost no deviation, then its not a good class, but rather a one-trick pony with too much pointless window dressing.
Welcome to tier 4.

>your entire post
Attempting to compare a kinetistist to a tier 1 or 2 class is beyond stupid and no one should do it. I have no idea why you are trying to.

A much more apt comparison is a ranged attacking martial. Fighter With A Bow and Zen Archer are the ones that I think match up the closest.

No one thinks that a properly built Zen Archer is "trash", and I originally caused all that butthurt by proving with math that a properly built Kinetistist is equally as competent as a Zen Archer.

If you're 1p, yeah. If not, roll up a viscera kineticist and do creepy body horror shit.

Eh... Overland Flight basically means you only burn one spell slot on the former, and conjuration specialist wizards or arcanists can get the latter as a "many times per day" ability. for long distance teleportation, yeah they have to use spell slots, but still.

>Welcome to tier 4.
You're a fucking idiot, T4 can do multiple tricks, but can only do one per build. Kineticist ONLY HAS ONE TRICK.

A caster can cast overland flight once and fly for the entire fucking day, and kineticists don't get true teleportation since they need line of sight. Dimension Door gives zero fucks about physics and will put you exactly where you want to be.

Of course a kineticist can do both of these things ALL DAY™, but I can't think of many scenarios where you'd need either of those things that much, The bottom line is that at its most optimal the kineticist is T4, and is a terribly designed class that Paizo should be embarrassed for publishing in such a state.

That would be a build being tier 4. Not a class.

>Spell slots
Yes, because this thread hasn't established repeatedly that you are almost never going to actually run out of spell slots in a given day.

And crafting feats don't exist.

And neither do magic items.

>T1 or T2 class
Not all casters are T1/T2, user.

And no, you didn't, because the kineticist falls behind considerably and doesn't even have basic utility.

Why the fuck are we having this argument again? There are no new points here that haven't been gone over numerous times already.

people are getting baited by buldposter

because buildposter started having a bitchfit and refused to learn or be told he was wrong

Your houserules on how many different competent builds need to exist for a class to be "good" are just that: houserules.

Try to build a barbarian without taking Superstition, Beast Totem, or Come And Get ME.

It will suck.

>Overland Flight
5th level spell slots are worth a lot. And you can't cast overland flight at level 6. Still don't compare a Tier 1 or 2 (or 3) class to a Tier 4 class.

Don't compare a tier 3 class to a tier 4 class.

Go read the OP about what tier 4 is again.

Because some people are apparently incapable of learning.

>someone says that kinestist is bad
>I post math
>people get butthurt (again)

The kineticist isn't a T4 class, it has a T4 build you fucking idiot.