For Pathfinder, if I were to include Tin weapons and armor should I treat them mechanically the same as regular iron/steel weapons and armor? or should I attach some special, non-magical condition to the armor to reflect being made of tin? much like how bronze & Gold weapons & armor have the fragile quality, or how armor made of Living metal treats weapons and armor that hit it as being fragile.
Question for the PF Crowd
Sebastian Sullivan
Matthew Ortiz
The "completely terrible" quality might be a good start. Treat them all as improvised weapons perhaps.
Jaxson Walker
Not wanting to look like a jackass, is this a thing, historically? I was under the impression that copper and tin were both useless as arms or armor until combined as bronze.
Colton Lewis
>completely terrible
I, I don't think I saw that in the Ultimate Equipment book... what does that do in mechanical terms exactly?
Kayden Anderson
>copper and tin were both useless as arms or armor
well, copper was used to make weapons and armor early on, before someone figured out they could mix it with Tin to make bronze. No idea if tin Weapons were ever a thing per se, I was just curious.
Henry Taylor
I'd treat them like bone or other primitive weapons - hell, worse in a lot of ways.
I'm sure a coat of tin mail as a layer between quilting or leather would add SOMETHING without increasing weight much, so that could be useful.
Frankly, if I were going to include a metal that useless as a material, I would give it some kind of anti-magic quality. "No wizard can touch you! Just... just don't trip near anything pointy."
Owen Foster
Not going to say it wasn't for sure but a copper weapon would be better and cheaper
Carson Garcia
I was joking with that, it isn't real.
But seriously you'd need to be post apocalyptic before tin swords made any kind of sense. Maybe a mace, but you could also tie a rock to a stick and get something equal or better.
Andrew Cox
Tin was used in some weapons, but much like copper the weapon had to be designed around the metal. You're talking either a mace that holds together better then a rock on a stick or a very wide "leaf" style blade.
You'd also have to sharpen them a lot.
As for armor, I'm not sure, maybe something along the lines of scale mail, not full plate for sure.
David Taylor
>I was joking with that, it isn't real.
I figured, I just wanted to play along because I was having a good laugh.
but in all fairness I was only asking because there are some fantasy races out there that don't get a lot of limelight, one being the Winkies (I didn't name them) who are described as master tinsmiths, so I could imagine them really trying their darnedest to make tin weapons and armor a thing and thought "what would that translate to?"
yeah...
I had an easier time coming up with what a jerkin of vulcanized rubber would do than tin.
it would substitute leather armor and behave in a similar manner but provide a slight bonus against electrical damage it's actually not as far-fetched as you might think, latex can be rendered easily enough from dandelions and even the ancient Olmec new how to make rubber. is it really so hard to believe some culture developing rubber because the smell of curing leather was too offensive to develop like it was elsewhere?
Nathaniel Myers
Copper is better than leather as an armor, but far heavier (not proportional to how good it is either) it really doesn't keep an edge on it at all though as it is literally something that is used for weapons when there's no other metal or stone suitable to replace it (so it's abandoned entirely the moment bronze or iron working is discovered), and worse than that copper was super expensive (due to it generally be hard to find in surface deposits) - tin suffers the same problems copper does, only more so, and is far harder to work at the sort of scale you want for weapons or armor, and the primary technique for shaping tin involves *cutting* and then bending the tin into shape like stiff fabric, such is the weakness of tin as a material.
Josiah Taylor
One thing I realised in another armor thread a few days ago - because giant insects have to violate the inverse cube law to exist, any giant insect chitin can be given some really funky properties, more than enough to make them fill almost any "armor" material niche you need in a fantasy game just by adding different kinds of giant insects.
Zachary Young
not to mention that in cold weather, Tin turns from a metal, into a fine, grey powder.
Lookup "tin pest" if you want to know more.
Michael Lee
>if I were going to include a metal that useless as a material, I would give it some kind of anti-magic quality.
Sadly I traditionally would give anti-magic properties to items crafted from aluminum.
going by the "this stuff is the bane of wizards... just good fucking luck getting enough of the stuff to make anything with it" philosophy.
but... well... I dunno, maybe tin would be another way to go.
Juan Ross
care to share some details?
Fantasy is chock-full of giant insects, it would be cool to see some practical uses for such monstrosities!
Jackson Stewart
so i could use the pincers of a giant mantis shrimp to create some kind of super crossbow?
also, since Veeky Forums seems to know metal, does anyone know how that ar500 steel is made?
Jaxon Clark
Could you make gold or silver into decent armor?
Wyatt Ortiz
not sure about silver but no way for gold
Brayden Williams
I'm no metallurgist, nor am I an armourer, but IIRC both silver and gold are too soft to be effective for weapons/armor.
Ethan Johnson
Tin Armor: Extra attack with axes, -1 Heart.
Cameron Watson
Go the Rune Quest route. Allow enchantment to make items made from a metal as good as normal items (sometimes with added effects). But even there tin is usually not enchanted, but used to make alloys.
Another thing to remember is that tin is relatively scarce and a good trade metal since it is needed to make bronze. Someone with a tin mine could trade it for copper, bronze, iron, whatever and make better items.
en.wikipedia.org
Josiah Parker
en.wikipedia.org
It's basically just the steel from target shooting made into armor.
Fragile quality sound like what it needs from tins description of its malleability. Also add in that cold attacks and areas deal damage against the armor which cannot be repaired, to represent its transformation from metal to powder at cold temperatures.
It could also function as a form of full body version of this: archivesofnethys.com
And pic related is its more artifacty version.
Zachary Jones
Tin weapons were a thing in primitive Cornwall, and Erzgebirge; armor not so much. At that stage uncured hide was the best they had as the Tin was mostly chunks for primitive maces and clubs. But evidence is limited.
Tin wasn't really used until bronze and then bronze is really easy to make once you are smelting metals anyways.
Tin makes fin utensils though. Easier to work for fine jobs, and far less expensive then silver and gold.
But overall, iron is more prolific then tin and makes far superior weapons. Copper is better then tin as well and bronze superior to both.
Basically your idea fails all reality checks. Smoke less weed.