MTG Legacy General

Dicks Out for Kird Ape

Rate my goblin deck?
CREATURES
>4x bloodmark mentor
>4x chancellor of the forge
>4x goblin arsonist
>4x goblin bushwhacker
>4x goblin chieftain
>4x goblin king
>4x goblin wardriver
>4x raging goblin

>4x brightstone ritual
>4x Dragon fodder
>4x krenkos command
>4x quest for the goblin lord
>12x mountains

Props for Bowied

Wat?

>Goblin King

So Veeky Forums do I foil out my Esper miracles or do I get DnT deck?

Save some cash and get a foiled out version of this guy's goblin deck

...maybe

Well boys it's...it's beautiful. I absolutely fucking hate this card but, I'm so glad wizards are reprinting it

>12 land
>raging fucking goblin
>brightstone ritual

unban recruiter

Yeah, naw

I'm just hoping for something like dig through time

>alters

Those aren't alters, they're KMC Character Guard triple sleeves.

Recruiter is not a broken card and would create a new tier 2 deck.

one of the forces is altered, but I purchased it that way because it was cheaper for being "damaged." they're triple sleeved to make sure judges approve that alter for use.

Wait, are they giving Show and Tells away at pre-release events?

>new tier 2 deck
Teir 1, the card is good enough so goblins auto wins any non-combo matchup. I've tested with it before, and think it is a significantly riskier unban than earthcraft or mind's desire which I've also tested, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't more powerful than memory jar and mind twist.
It might be able to come off, but there are more deserving unbans than it by far.

How viable is reanimator with shocks instead of duals?

You might try darkslick shores if you need a cheap option. You don't need much more than two lands at one time. Including a shock to have something to fetch is alright but will mean slimmer margins when activating G-money.

>50usd card
>Deck defining card
>Hand them out as promos to everyone who shows up

The price is gonna tank so fucking hard.

Fuck sneak and show players

This desu senpai

>Playing the máster race deck
>Paired against storm
>Won game 1, i lose g2
>On g3 i have 18 cards on grave for T1.
>T2 i have him at 11 life
>He kills himself with ad nauseum
MFW

This is why I don't play ANT.

Isn't it cool to just run Dark Petition and Past in Flames instead of AN nowadays?
You have me torn between building DDFT and ANT.

He obviously took a risk when he shouldn't of

How the fuck would you know that? It sounded like he'd likely be dead in a turn, not to mention the interactive pressure if dredge mills a therapy.

it's hard to know without seeing the whole board, but it sounds to me like casting AN was actually the right play. At 11 life on turn 2, 1 more turn and you're either dead or far too low to Ad Naus. I'm assuming the Ad Naus player took a calculated risk, assuming chances were better with an Ad naus from 11 life than hoping to topdeck whatever piece was missing to just chain tutors. From 11 life you'll draw ~7 cards, maybe more. I think the chances are good, especially if you have mana floating.

Jesus what's with the hostility guy. I'm just saying that becuase I've only ever killed my self with Ad nauseum is when I'm in a hard place and I make a bad decision or get greedy with Ad nauseum

>Hostility
Giving a sane opinion is hostility now?

Good, this is should discourage investing in MTG.

You were very rude about it

He was pretty dead if he didn't stormed right there. i had 6 zombies in play, and 3 ichorid in graveyard. he did what he needed, but anyways failed. i was in fact fearful that he had in hand an echoing truth.

I wasn't trying to be hostile. It's hard to know anything without knowing the whole gamestate. But Ad Naus from 11 life is much better than Ad Naus from 2.

I think the best course of action is to start with ANT. Doomsday is fun once you learn to not kill yourself, but it has a steeply logarithmic learning curve. ANT has a more linear learning curve. No to mention the decks share like 80% of their cards, so if you own ANT, you're like $50 away from owning doomsday as well. I don't want to discourage you from starting with DDFT if you think you'll really love it and are willing to put the time in to tame the beast. That's what I did.

Oh sorry DDFT guy, I forgot to clarify but you weren't the hostile one

Good, the prices of most legacy cards are just silly.
If this is the promo I might pay for some friends to join me

You were being mean to the AN player (your post basically said 'obviously he was stupid'), so I felt the desire to reprimand you.
I don't like it when people hear about someone they don't know doing something they don't know about and their first response is to assume that they didn't have a good reason for doing what they did.
It's like, the assumption that people are stupid leads you to assume they don't have a reason for what they're doing which then confirms your assumption that they're stupid; I see that kind of thing happen everywhere it annoys me every time.

B-but why?

>Isn't it cool to just run Dark Petition and Past in Flames instead of AN nowadays?
AN is needed for speed. Usually the choice is between AN and Empty.

I'm gonna repost this in the new thread because no one got it. Hope my spamming of random DDFT puzzle isn't annoying.

Puzzle featuring scary new card Sanctum Prelate:

it's main phase in your 4th turn vs DnT of the future. They played Sanctum Prelate on their previous turn and choose 2 like an asshole.

Your hand: Dark Ritual, Doomsday, Brainstorm, Probe, Underground Sea, Abrupt Decay
Your field: Bayou, Island, Island.
Can you kill them right now?

how is anyone who didnt grow up with a trust fund supposed to be able to play this format

You save money.

blazing wish guy here reporting on my duel for the dual tournament. 14 people so 5 rounds cut to top 4. beat slivers, painter, and manaless dredge, lost to eldrazi stompy and sneak and show. made 6th place, which felt a little bad, but mostly I was happy to get to play paper legacy. I got 4 packs of bfz, didn't open anything of value. manaless dredge guy to me I was his only g1 loss all day.

>have all of RB reanimator built besides reanimate and entomb
>no one in my area has them
>no one on pucatrade wants to send them

This is some bullshit. Is there any other way I'm missing out on that isn't just straight up buying them?

RB
Nout superior UB

Usea Dark Rit Doomsday for:

LotusPetal Probe Probe Probe MadLad

although that Doomsdaying for a bunch of Gitaxian Probes and LadMan seems really lazy, what's the optimal way?

Oh I see, we just had a misinterpretation of words. I was just trying to point out that in my experience he made a mistake, like everyone else does.

I think you'll just have to buy them. If you have cards you were going to trade for them, trade them in for store credit somewhere and you'll save some cash on the purchase.

Pucatrade is incredibly shitty when it comes to getting legacy staples. You're better off selling/buying through Ebay.

It's the single most braindead deck in the format

Get a job that pays above minimum. Save your beer money. Don't eat out for a couple weeks. A million ways really

*have

youtu.be/SvseDNbzPtM

Paying 8 life after doomsday may not even be possible much of the time. I'm also not sure your pile even works without passing another turn and using your draw step to win. But you've just paid 8 life so at best you'd be at 2 and dead on board.

Here's my solution: play the underground sea (I realize I wasn't totally clear that you hand't played a land yet). Tap the bayou for ritual, doomsday.
Pile: Brainstorm, LED, Maniac, Brainstorm irrelevant.
Now you have 3 blue mana sources left. Tap one to cast brainstorm, and put back Abrupt Decay, then Maniac. Now your hand is Probe, BS, LED. Play LED. Then pay life for probe, hold priority, cast brainstorm, keep holding priority, and crack LED for UUU. Brainstorm resolves, and you draw Maniac, BS, Decay. Put back decay and then maniac. Probe resolves and you draw maniac. Cast maniac off the UUU, and you have one blue source left to brainstorm with only 2 cards left in the deck.

ANT is more competitive, DDFT is flashier. AN lets you essentially roll the dice and try to find a win when you otherwise would not. Empty is a reasonable substitute, but AN from 15+ life with 1 mana available is usually a . value AN is also a reasonable play in certain matchups

>pay to win general

I think you meant to say, "ANT is more widely played, but DDFT is inarguably cooler"

I have played against ANT and TES, i know how to disrupted them. I have never played against DDFT so the surprise factor would hit me, but if i thoughtseize and see a Doomsday i think i would discard it

This is almost always correct. I always chuckle a bit when people don't do this. DDFT has a hard time winning without resolving Doomsday.

Can DDFT realistically win without Doomsday?

Proxy a deck before you drop any amount of cash on the pieces no matter how cheap. Make sure you like the deck you are building. Put a little bit of money aside each paycheck and eventually you'll be able to afford some duals or fetches or whatever it is you need. Cut back on other formats, or try to find budget alternatives to use in the short term. Lots of ways really. You just need to be patient and saavy. Don't even feel bad proxying a deck for a while as you begin to assemble it, I and most other legacy players don't mind if it's printed paper proxy because we appreciate having to someone to play the format with. Plus 9 out of 10 legacy players will understand the struggle/time involved in saving up.

How can Monarch mechanic change Legacy? Any Monarch card that can be slotted in a established deck already?

I think it can be a source of card advantage to decks that doesn't have any, but who knows. The drawback of being hit can be bad.

Only through a line where they can cast a burning wish for tendrils. Double top triple LED 2x dark rit wish or something

ANT is more widely played because its more competitive. As for which is cooler, I prefer the deck that can pull off more t1-2 kills and has a couple different paths to victory

I could see it being playable as an anti-miracles/lands tactic. If there was a 3 drop that with 2 or less power in white that made you the monarch it might actually be good in painter. I wouldn't rule it out at least, but I haven't critically analyzed any cards

>Any Monarch card that can be slotted in a established deck already?
D&T is almost certainly playing Palace Jailer, I can't believe D&T got 3 different extremely powerful cards in a single set, I can't imagine it not being tier 1 once it is released.
Nothing else so far looks playable.

4 mana is a lot, but it actually does seem like it could be good enough. I'll try it at the very least

Yes, i'm looking into the Number Crunch right now and only Palace Jailer seems playable at the moment. He turns you at the monarch and have an immediate impact. If you play it on your turn, it draws you a card already. Or, if for some random reason you Vial up to 4, you could flash it as a trick.

>4 mana is a lot, but it actually does seem like it could be good enough. I'll try it at the very least
Palace jailer is a 3 for 1 to start with and only gets better from there, just through maintaining the monarch or flickering it. All of the lists I've seen that try to incorporate recruiter were already playing banishing priest maindeck I can't imagine Jailer not replacing it.
A lot of people on the source were discussing playing some amount of chrome moxes because
The curve of the deck is significantly increasing otherwise (recruiter is effectively a 6 drop, split over 2 turns).
and
The cards that D&T have gotten practically make it unbeatable in midrange battles
I don't know if maindeck chrome moxes are going to be a thing (although I'd guess they will be) but because of prelate and recruiter I think chrome moxes are actually more important than ethersworn cannonist against storm (I say this having tested for a decent bit) and other fast combo.
At this point I think the only big deck that D&T is going to not be able to at least metagame itself against effectively is elves.

It's fine if you think that. My experience with DDFT has shown it to be plenty competitive. The main reason it's not widely played is because ANT has an easier learning curve, and the pros of DDFT weighed against the cons plus the extra effort required to become competent is not worth it to most people. It was for me. It's not for you.

My feeling on chrome moxen is that they're bad cards that the deck doesn't need, and balancing the curve seems more important. As much as I love the source, some truly terrible ideas get latched onto. I think if the deck wants to go for this turbo midrange strategy, it should add 1 dustbowl, and just lose to Delver, Elves and Infect all day.

That said, I do think that the deck will change a lot. I don't think cutting all your early game cards and trying to make up by running bad acceleration is the solution.

I take umbradge with the notion that Ddft is a deck that's impossibly difficult to learn and held back by the world not being ready for it. Optimally playing ANT is harder than DDFT. Memorizing piles is flashy, but ultimately easier than knowing how and when to play the odds.

If you want to talk pros and cons, ANT has a lot of upside that DDFT doesn't.

>and just lose to Delver, Elves and Infect all day.
I don't see how you're going to become a teir 1 deck by losing to half of the meta. The chrome moxes might be sideboard, but I can't see them not being in the deck.
>My feeling on chrome moxen is that they're bad cards that the deck doesn't need, and balancing the curve seems more important
This is something that sounds nice, but doesn't actually make any sense. You are going to want to play 3 or 4 recruiters because of how good they are, it is effectively a 6 mana investment card most of the time. Stoneforge mystic is either a 6 mana investment or a 4 mana investment, prelate is good enough to be a 2 of almost definitely, and then you have several 3 mana spells beyond that along with rishadan port and wasteland. It is a very mana intensive deck that is only getting more mana intensive. It also has a huge amount of card advantage (and has just gained even more) and can afford to lose some.
I also think that chrome mox is slightly underrated even in grindy matchups, because of the inability for people to accept that it is not a spell, but a land. The amount of times I have heard some variation of 'it is terrible late game' when in the situation that they described a land would be just as terrible leads me to believe that they don't understand its role as a card.
>it should add 1 dustbowl
I think horizon canopies are more realistic than dustbowl, I've played dustbowl quite a lot and I think it far too slow to be useful in any situation for D&T.
>cutting all your early game cards
People are only considering cutting revokers, there was some discussion on cutting mom, but consensus was that it didn't make sense. The other cuts tend to be serra avenger, flickerwisp and the other 3 drops.

>The amount of times I have heard some variation of 'it is terrible late game' when in the situation that they described a land would be just as terrible leads me to believe that they don't understand its role as a card.
It's technically worse than a land, because if you want to use it you have to dump another card. If you don't need more mana, though, then it will just sit in your hand just like a topdecked plains.

I'm not all that interested in arguing, actually, so i'll drop it after this. But you've misrepresented or misinterpreted what I was saying. I've repeatedly said in previous threads that DDFT is not actually that hard to play. It does have a steeper learning curve than ANT. That's not the same thing as saying it's harder overall. DDFT sees tournament success in proportion to the number of people who play it. Compare it to TES, which is played far less than ANT, but sees success in the hands of people who are dedicated players. DDFT has advantages and disadvantages relative to ANT. I don't think it's better or worse than ANT. I think it's different, and I have more fun playing it.

And for the record, there is very little pile memorization involved in learning to play DDFT.

It seems like a good time to sleeves up dredge. Everybody will be sideboarding for DnT or playing DnT.

Time to dust off my copies of Teferi's Response from Masques/Invasion standard. Fuck Rishada Port.

Cutting Avenger and Revoker is what makes Delver and Elves bad.

As for cutting flickerwisp, I don't see why we want to cut our best card. That's a different discussion that happens with time.

On Chrome Mox, i agree with you that being a bad topdeck isn't a great reason not to run it. The reasons I don't see it being good are these:

1. The deck does not have an increased need to make 2 drops on turn 1. Unless the speed of the format increases, I do not see the point.

2. With 21 lands and 2 moxen, you will still draw a lot of hands with 2 mana sources. Mox + Land puts you up 1 mana total in a 2 mana source draw. There will be hands where you open 2 lands, then the mox being your 3rd land is bad.

3. Other cards can interact with it that are already good against you. Null Rod is great against you. Making it potentially stone rain you is terrible. Abrupt Decay etc. you when stuck on mana will suck. Flickerwisp on a mox is a beating.

>1. The deck does not have an increased need to make 2 drops on turn 1. Unless the speed of the format increases, I do not see the point.

But not getting your relevant hate online on T1 IS one of the big weak spots of D&T.

T1 Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist or RiP can make the difference, especially on the draw.

The card disadvantage and dead top decks are the main problems of Chrome Mox. Being able to be faster would actually be a good thing.

>Teferi's Response
That is some sick technology, I've never seen that card before.

>I don't see why we want to cut our best card
Flickerwisp is a great card (and I meant cutting copies, there are still 2-3 in each list I've seen, revokers cut to 1-2) but thalia is the best card in the deck. The reason is, it is slow, and you'll have access to it when you really need it.
>Cutting Avenger and Revoker is what makes Delver and Elves bad.
I don't think that avenger is all that good for the delver matchup, better than the average card, but it usually just trades for a delver. Cutting revoker makes elves worse, but I'm not sure if it is possible for elves to be good for a mono white build without comically tailoring the deck against elves. Elves is the one matchup where I think it is wise to just completely give up.
>2. With 21 lands and 2 moxen, you will still draw a lot of hands with 2 mana sources. Mox + Land puts you up 1 mana total in a 2 mana source draw.
This is a good point, however, in that situation the acceleration can still be potent, spirit guide isn't terrible if it is in your opening (I know this sounds like it contradicts what I was saying earlier about it being a land, but the fact that it does curtail sooner than a land is a valid point)
>There will be hands where you open 2 lands, then the mox being your 3rd land is bad.
Agreed, from that perspective the way that chrome mox would add value over previous versions is if it increased its total mana source count, if it dealt with the card disadvantage better or if it could use its acceleration better than it previously could.
I think it is clear it will deal with the card disadvantage better.
I think that increasing the total land count is certainly possible (horizon canopy also compliments mox), thought likely not a huge deal.
I also think that due to the presence of prelate the acceleration is more significant than before.
Mostly though, I think it is the best card against storm and other fast decks which is why I think it would at least be good in the side.

I disagree. I'd love to have t1 hate against combo. Out of the sideboard, I would rather have a couple of lotus petals. Being down cards is a legitimate cost, even against combo. I don't think prelate is going to lead me to trim on other hate.

Thalia is certainly the best card against cantrip decks, but Flickerwisp does a lot of really powerful things in a ton of matchups. Being able to tutor it is nice, but unless you have 2 vials on 3 that's not going to cut it.

Avenger does often just trade for a delver. With 6 total removal spells, that's all you need sometimes. Maybe it's no longer necessary, but I do think that the newer lists look really soft to delver. Elves sucks, but I don't think we should just give up.

Try the moxen out, but I think they'll be significantly more potent if you run them in addition to, rather than instead of, lands

Yo steppechild/beezy, if you want to play again just post in thread.

>raging goblin

Is this nigga forreal? I wouldn't run that shit in Modern Gobboz.

I like this card's design. It does one very very niche thing, but does it VERY well.

Not Legacy but damn, this is why I always look forward to LSV cube draft videos.
youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1109283&feature=iv&src_vid=HGXN9rnfDQU&v=jS6e2Gu8bXg

What made everyone here pick their legacy deck? For me it was a combination of wanting to play a control deck and watching BBD and Philip schnoegger (sorry it'll that's wrong) slay with miracles. But I refuse to not play my favourite color combination in my favourite format so I opted to play Esper miracles.

So what's your guys small/big stories?

What is Eldrazi and Burn.

>(sorry it'll that's wrong)
Sorry if that's wrong*

>he thinks people pick up the more competitive storm deck instead of the one everyone else is playing and that has a lower learning curve