The Official MTG Snowstorm/Lore Thread

It has successfully happened pre-Mending. But, not post-Mending. Also, I believe if it was tried post-Mending, then the abductee would be killed in the Blind Eternities.

when are we getting some lewds with serena and the polar bear

The what now? There's a polar bear?

yeah the w/g one with all the umbras

nanook

Post-mending, no. It is completely impossible to bring someone else with you, period. Speaking from a meta-perspective, this was one of the major purposes behind the Mending.

You can't bring other people with you when you planeswalk period nowadays. Most likely if you try and take a non-planeswalker with you when you walk, they simply stay where they are and you arrive on the next plane clutching at nothing and making an ass of yourself.
Same thing if they're already a planeswalker, they can just sit where they are while you try and planeswalk them away to no success.

It's why Koth had to "persuade" Venser to come to Mirrodin via a helmet made of dirt and stone.

Personally, even if anyone could force another person to planeswalk with you, Venser is the kind of guy you might want to ask permission first. He is the guy that can poke you and literally make you pop out of existence.

I don't know, this guy handled Venser and his multiverse endangering just fine for an entire trip.

Are what things travel between planes other than planeswalkers? Can non-planeswalkers create artifacts that allow for limited planeswalking (portals)?

They could before the mending. They can't now because the mending changed how the multiverse worked.

For an analogy: The blind eternities separated the planes, but they were like Japanese rice-paper walls, flimsy and more for courtesy than anything else.
When the mending happened, too many of those walls had holes in them, due to the actions of planeswalkers, Phyrexia, planar portals in general, and all the apocalypses, so they all got rebuilt out of brick instead. Try and tear through THAT assholes.

And that was the mending.

Post-Mending, only Planeswalkers and things that are native to the Blind Eternities can travel the Blind Eternities.

So far, the only instance of Blind Eternity natives is the Eldrazi.

Why would there be lewds of the two of them?

Rule 34, presumably. Though I doubt they are well known enough to elicit that kind of attention.

What of they're cursed?

Oh, well that changes everything.

If you're cursed with a beneficial curse, you can ferry people through the Blind Eternities at a whim.

>beneficial
>curse
?????

Yeah, you know. Curses that transform you into an being of immense power with literally no drawback. Beneficial curses.

????????????
just what

What's the matter? Did someone place a detrimental enhancement on your intelligence?

They're mocking resident shitposter Vronak

That's all right, then. I was dreading something like that being canon. I'd drop this setting like I fumble and drop my phone down a sewer in my daynightmares, if that were the case.

Except there are things that still travel between planes through unknown means post-Mending. Vedalkens and Merit Lage are two of these instances. Both have been stated by MaRo that neither are Planeswalkers. So, the capability to travel between planes are not limited to Planeswalkers and Eldrazi.

I need a source on this. I've never heard any evidence for either of these being able to travel between planes, and, even if it's the case, that has nothing to do with whether a walker can carry another being with them (they definitely can't.)

Marit Lage has not made an appearance in the lore after the Mending and Vedalken simply occur on multiple planes, like many other races. They're not a species of Planeswalkers.

Please cite your sources.

I can't find any reference to Marit Lage being a thing since after the Ice Age long before the mending.
I hate to say it, but Marit Lage might be plane bound now.

Vedalken are basically emotionless blue humans. They contain no special interplanar powers unless they're planeswalkers.

That's not quite how the mending worked. It took away access by Planeswalkers to their source of power. Planeswalkers are more or less astral / cosmic beings akin to the Eldrazi Titans. Pre-Mending, when Planeswalkers' sparks ignited, they ascended into beings that lived in the Blind Eternities and conjured up physical forms on a plane to put their conciousness into. They were omnipotent God-like beings that did what they want and changed reality how they saw fit. The Mending simply limited how much power they could draw from this source of power. Meaning, that when their spark ignites, they are still these cosmic beings that are now trapped inside these physical bodies and can no longer ascend into the Blind Eternities like before and can no longer harness the great power that they once did long ago.

Cite your source please.

I do not recall ever reading that planeswalkers were cosmic beings of Blind Eternities with human avatars or bound in human form.

That's what the mending did to planeswalkers, but it's also on record that the mending strengthened the barriers between planes, which is why all the planar portals went inert and no one can build them anymore even if they have instruction manuals. Same for skyships.

Also, planeswalkers did exist how they pleased but they weren't extraplanar entities sitting in the blind eternities projected themselves on a plane like the eldrazi were. They were physically on the plane, just with godlike power contained in whatever form they felt like taking at the moment.

This. I think that the person you both responded too extrapolated from discussions of Bolas, who at the height of his power literally needed an anchor just to hold form on a plane without breaking it.

That's not how the curse works. Nor is it "beneficial" beyond perception. Just like Garruk's and Ob Nixilis' curses. It made them significant my more powerful, but at a cost. The curse itself isn't what makes Graveborn "more powerful", it merely allows him to use his spark and magics in unique ways, because he is forced to think outside the parameters of the physical form. And he doesn't make anyone planeswalk. He can make people travel through the Blind Eternities. He simply moves his body and his ship The Lady Death through the Blind Eternities. His crew is Planeswalkers themselves and travel wherever their captain and the ship go. He has nothing to do with how they travel. He moves the ship and his body. They travel to the ship's deck.

The curse didn't transform Graveborn. However, what you are describing sounds just like Garruk and Oby.

MaRo has said that Marit Lage can travel from plane to plane. People have asked him if she is a Planeswalker, he said "nope". People asked him if she was an Eldrazi. He said "nope". And as for Vedalkens, they do their research on a plethora of planes and add to their collective information on everything. That and they run experiments on creatures from different planes.

mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Marit_Lage

As for Vedalkens, we don't know how they travel from plane to plane yet, but more than likely it's through technology. Which Venser was also working on figuring out how to do so.

I never said they were Planeswalkers. I never said they can planeswalk at all. Refer up in this post. For how Vedalkens are.

Fine.

Vedalken do not 'travel between planes through unknown means post-Mending,' which is precisely what you said they did.

Cite your sources.

I'm not going to scavenge through all the source material for these citations. But, pic is Marit Lage and this link is MtG Lore's Planeswalkers Pre-Memding vs Post-Mending. That sums up a lot of it.
youtu.be/jFjyVe61ld4

Forgot pic.

Also another amusing tid-bit.

There are various depictions of Vedalkens have information from other planes. And the fact that Vedalkens are said to have been mutated on Mirrodin and grew their extra arms from this mutation. And yet on other planes, the Vedalken all have four arms.

>[9]
>Doug Beyer. (December 12, 2007.) “Goodies from the Mailbag”, magicthegathering.com, Wizards of the Coast.
>First of all, anything is possible, given the right conditions. Planeswalking is a form of magic. With enough time and mana, or with specialized spell knowledge, or with access to enormous power, it's possible for a planeswalker to transfer gobs of material and/or creatures with him as he planeswalks. Planeswalkers are mortal, but they're incredibly creative and resourceful—if there's something a planeswalker wants to hang on to as he planeswalks, then he'll probably pay the price and do the work to make it happen.

That was written in 2007, written by Doug Beyer.

Then there's this:

>tmblr.co/ZUrCEt1I4jhlz
>Unless something special is going on, planeswalkers can’t bring living beings with them. Only beings with active planeswalker sparks can leave a plane and travel to another one (except for weird and very rare exceptions, such as the Eldrazi titans, or someone with access to some kind of gate).
>Note that summoning creatures is not planeswalking. When you create a baloth out of the aether and have it fight for you, you’re magically creating an instance of baloth-ness, even if you’re summoning it while on Theros and you learned about baloths back on Zendikar. There is not one less baloth on Zendikar due to your summoning spell on Theros — Theros is just +1 baloth, thanks to you making a new one. However, summoned creatures tend to stop existing after a while — they last for a while, long enough to fight for you in a duel or whatever, but not forever.

That was written 7 years later in 2014, by the same Doug Beyer.

Your amusing tidbit means nothing. Haven't you learned that MTG Salvation is unreliable by now?

Also, if you want citation on that mutated shit, here you go. Pic related.

Marit Lage has only appeared in the lore before the Mending. Since the Mending, Marit Lage hasn't been mentioned once. We have no way of knowing whether or not Marit Lage is still capable of planeswalking.

The same applies to the Myojin of Night's Reach. It hasn't been referred to after the Mending took place.

Finally, you're considering MTG Salvation a reliable source? Really?

Show me where the Myojin and Marit Lage traveled between planes after the Mending. Give me a link, point out a page number from a book, anything.

Marit Lage and the Myojin of Night's reach are both pre-mending when such a thing was possible.

As it stands post-mending, Maro has stated repeatedly on his tumblr that only planeswalkers and things native to the BE can traverse the multiverse now.

Vedalkens are knowledge nerds, of course they get as much info out of any planeswalker they meet. And of course a vedalken planeswalker would spread information back home of other planes.

Tamiyo's pretty much told all the soratami about other planes and knows about everything from new phyrexia to the fall of Serra's realm minimum. Does this make all the soratami planeswalkers too?

> unless something special is going on,
> very first line
Meaning, it's possible, just not a normal occurrence.

>Tamiyo and Jacestice League meeting
>Jace mindsculpts them to forget how to planeswalk clothes because he is a perverted NEET

Yes, which means that it requires justification.

You can't just say "DOUG BEYER SAID IT SO I CAN DO IT," you need to specifically lay out and explain the specific circumstances that allow your character to break the otherwise rigid rules of the Multiverse. Keep in mind, no other post-Mending character has broken this rule yet. If WotC is cautious about breaking this rule and citing 'something special going on,' you should be equally cautious.

The mending only affected Planeswalkers. She is stated to not be a Planeswalker. So, if she was capable of traveling between planes before, she should be capable of it now. And also, it's not really planeswalking. Planeswalking is an ability by Planeswalkers. Marit Lage could be something more like the Eldrazi's form of travel. We just don't know yet.

And don't blame me for using mtg salvation. Other anons started posting links to salvation before I did. So, if they consider it good enough, then why not? Also, most salvation entries have source citations.

Mirrodin is one thing that flat out can't be used as the origin for any species. Argentum as Karn made it had no biological life, the corrupted Memnarch dragged all the biological life to Mirrodin through pre-mending planar portals. Technically nothing is native to Mirrodin except the mycosynth.

The Vedalken didn't planeswalk to mirrodin, they were forcibly dragged through a portal and the mycosynth mutated them.

The mending affected planeswalkers AND the rules of the multiverse. See the first paragraph

Other methods of traveling between the planes have been rendered useless by the Mending. Phyrexian portal technology is specifically stated to have been rendered useless, for example. Yes, Venser was working on something but there's no evidence that it would have even worked. So you're wrong, it's not limited to just planeswalkers.

Therefore, unless we are shown otherwise, we should assume that all non-planeswalker and all non-Eldrazi methods of planar travel no longer work.

Also, citation. Pic and link.
magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ask-wizards-august-2006-2006-08-01

This could be how the Vedalken get their info, but that doesn't explain them being mutated on Mirrodin and then other planes Vedalkens having four arms as well.

>This was posted August 2006.
>The first set of the Time Spiral block was released in October 2006.
>The Mending took place in Future Sight, May 2007.

Congratulations, your citation is horribly out of date.

twitter.com/maro254/status/555114242588684288
It's actually straight impossible.

The only other plane this happens on is Ravnica and is a trait of the genetically modified Vedalken of the Simic guild. There's artwork of an Izzet vedalken, and plenty of Azorious vedalken who only have two arms

Hell, they wrote an arcana to lampshade the fact.
magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/mutant-vedalken-ravnica-2006-05-30

You do realize just before that, I stated that they can't planeswalk with living beings before that. (Corrected when I said organic material). I never said that anyone can do it post-Mending. I simply posted a pic and said it's amusing. How about you stop being a sperglord?

And again, how do mutated Vedalkens get back to other planes? They have some form of doing it. We just aren't told how yet.

I was under the impression the reason the portals don't work is because they use sparks/stones to power them. Meaning they use the same source of powers that Planeswalkers use. Being why they stopped working.

Cite where Phyrexian portals use planeswalker sparks.

>And again, how do mutated Vedalkens get back to other planes? They have some form of doing it. We just aren't told how yet.
See the second half of They aren't phyrexian mutated, they're Simic mutated.

>I was under the impression the reason the portals don't work is because they use sparks/stones to power them
If Yawg could harness a planeswalker spark to such an effect then he could have given himself a spark like he always wanted. He could never find the planeswalker spark no matter how many planeswalkers he cut up

An unofficial Youtube video made by a Patreon-funded enthusiast is not a source.

> sparks/stones
> thinks that means sparks powering everything
> just ignores the "stones" part
Planeswalkers (Glacien & Dyfed) created portals for Phyrexia. Also, their technology used powerstones to create more portals. I do not remember if that particular Powerstone had Glacien's spark in it or not. I don't remember what it says in the novels. It was a log time ago.

Mycosynth mutated. I would t say "Phyrexian mutated" because that sounds a lot like assimilated. Which the Vedalkens weren't. The Vedalkens were mutated as a by-product of the Mycosynth.

He couldn't bond a spark to himself. Doesn't mean he didn't have Planeswalkers or powerstones to help him.

Yes, it did. Read the Thran. The Mightstone and Weakstone both absorbed Glacian's spark when he died, each possessing a half of his spark.

No other powerstone had anything to do with planeswalkers, which is why I didn't even waste time mentioning the stones.

The point remains that Phyrexian portal technology no longer workers and that sort of technology is entirely separate and unrelated to planeswalkers.

> someone who also reads the fucking books is not a source and is also given spoiler cards to reveal by WotC; but not credible
Okay. Yeah. Sure buddy.

> read the Thran
I just told you that I couldn't remember the exact details of Glacien's spark and the powerstones. That it was a long time ago since I've read it. And you're telling me that I need to read it? Come on now. Now you're just bitching for no reason.

> entirely separate
Citation needed.

Don't talk about something like an authority on the matter if you can't even correctly recollect your sources.

>Cite something that never happened.
Are you stupid?
If portals were made out of planeswalker then it be said they were made out of planeswalker. There's nothing to cite that they weren't because there'd be no reason to say "These are phyrexian planar portals. They are NOT made out of planeswalker."

Shit, that's like saying "Prove to me that Mirrodin ISN'T made of Kor." or something stupid like that.

Don't talk about something like you're an authority on the matter if you have to spend half an hour looking shit up to try and back your claims.

Also, stop acting like you can recall every detail of everything you've ever read. I stated that it might have something to do with Glacian's spark being in the Powerstone. That I couldn't remember. Not that I was passing it as fact and being wrong about it afterwords.

Read the Artifacts Cycle, the Thran and the Invasions Cycle, which all refer to power stones and use them as devices in the stories they tell.

At not point is it stated that they are connected to planeswalkers in any respect, excluding the very specific case of the Mightstone and Weakstone.

So, you're saying there is no living stating they are entirely different sources of power? Do, what we do know is... Yawgmoth has Planeswalkers making portals for him. Planeswalkers die. He then makes a technology to generate portals. Portals stop working after the mending. Hmm. Sounds like they very well could have used the same power source as Planeswalkers. No?

The difference being that he went out of his way to look up a primary source while you're spouting whatever comes to mind. He can talk with authority because he looked up the information from the book.

Where's the best place to pirate MTG novels?

Also, I never said they were made OUT of Planeswalkers.

All powerstones were created with either a Planeswalker spark inside of them or an entire collapsed plane inside of them. I don't remember any Powerstone not being of these sources.

Like I haven't been tossing out citations everytime someone has requested it?

Cite this, please. This is a blatant lie and at no point has there ever been anything to indicate this. You are making shit up on the spot.

Listen Vronak 2.0: The mending strengthened the metaphorical walls between planes to make all the stuff that used to work not work. It affected planeswalkers AND the multiverse at large.
They are unrelated to planeswalkers. No one has ever said they're made of planeswalkers so they aren't, and you don't have the authority to say "Yes they are!!!!"

You said they were powered by planeswalker sparks. It practically means the same thing.

BEING ABLE TO HAUL AN ENTIRE BOAT AND CREW SEEMS PRETTY FUCKING BENEFICIAL, YOU NARD
YOUR SPARK NEEDS TO BE IN YOUR BODY TO FUCKING WORK

Everytime you ask for citation. I provide it. And still you keep saying I'm making shit up? Fuck off already.

This is just ordinary Vronak mate.

I never said they were made out of Planeswalkers. I've said this twice. Fuck off with this shit. And it doesn't mean the same thing. The Powerstone that the Weakstone and Mightstone were made out of were in fact made with the spark of a Planeswalker inside of it.

Again, he doesn't haul a crew. They planeswalk to the ship where ever it makes port. And he doesn't even have a physical body. He is cursed by an enchantment to be trapped in the blind eternities. He uses his spark to move his undead body and the ship from plane to plane. That is all. And sparks don't need to be inside a body to have power. Look at Memnarch's entire motive. Sparks have been placed inside of a lot of things and been pulled out of Planeswalkers numerous times. Now, stop with the caps and the spazzing out, sperg.

MTGSALVATION IS UNRELIABLE YOU...
...YOU...
N A R D
A
R
D

That says nothing about any power stone being created with a planeswalker spark inside of it.
Incorrect.

The Mightstone and the Weakstone are two halves of the same powerstone that was split to create a portal to Phyrexia. They gained a half of Glacian's latent spark each when he died with them trapped within his body.

This has already been posted in this thread, by the way.

>I've been arguing with Vronak
Shit why didn't anyone tell me? I was stressing over nothing.

As with literally every other wiki, mtgsalvation is only as reliable as the sources that the page cites.

That being said, it's not 100% useless trash, so calm your fucking tits.

He literally uses image.jpg and image.png. He's the only asshole in these threads that uses an iPhone. You can tell him apart in an instant.

Given that he thinks Karona actually met Yawgmoth.

Hey Vronak, could you post the pic of the character you're so infamous for? I want to make something and I can't find the pic anywhere.

This is his very first, but all forty-something of the ones he's made are pretty shit.

No, they had absorbed the spark inside them since Yawgmoth slipped a power stone into glacien while performing surgery.

Is that so? I always thought the original Powerstone was created with his spark inside of it. Mind you, I said before that it's been a long time since I've read any of this. I just didn't recall it being that the Powerstone had Glacien's spark merged with it after its creation. I'm not going to look that up, but I'll go ahead and take your work on it.

I'm not the only one using a phone.