Warmachine and Hordes thread

How does Karchev stack up to the other Warcasters for Khador in Mk3? He used to be a one-trick pony, but now seems like he might be able to do some work

OK, ok. You know that one trick he had in Mk2?

It sucks now.

No other changes.

Tow is gone, replaced by Road to War (killing enemy models lets you advance a Jack up 3"). Unearthly Rage is now his Feat. He gained a spell to give his Battle Group Counter-charge.

As a Jack centric Warcaster, he benefited a lot from Jacks getting 1 free focus.

Honestly, he's much better than Mk2. In Mk2, he sucked. Now he's actually got some game. He's a decent caster. Not top tier by any means but you won't really feel gimped by choosing him. Just be sure to bring some ranged support to trigger Road to War.

Eternal Skorne Dojo?

He's still not great compared to some of the all stars in Khador (Irusk2, Vlad1/2, etc) but he's definitely not the B-list one trick pony he was in MK2. Bring Widowmakers + Marksman, a big ass battle group, and support to taste and you'll have a good time.

Skorne sucks

I picked up this kit yesterday. the Rager might be the most stupidly designed warjack in Khador's stable.
I can sort of accept how the shield looks, but how do I make the Rager's sword look not stupid?

Remove "blade", acquire shakeweight gains.
Or you could grab some plasticard and build a replacement.

why does that golem have a shiv? and a gunshield?

Shanking, blocking, and shooting, respectively.

>why does that golem have a shiv?
For shivving.

>and a gunshield?
So he can shoot while he shields.

Well, if mk3 was good for anything it makes the backstory of the Juggernaught revolutionizing warfare make a hell of a lot more sense.

Imagine showing up planning to fight THAT and instead getting a trio or so of 'ole Can't-Miss-Can't-Die.

Game loses Psychology. But NOW, now of all times, my infantry are actually afraid of warjacks.

elaborate please

Inflictors are coming on tues

King Mikhail Vanar ordered the design, and it turned the Khador army around. Still in use 100 years later, and is the template for most of their modern warjacks.

Is that guy worth bringing along with his girlfriend in mk3?

Just getting into the game (again, played some mk2 but not much) and going with Cryx. How feasible is a revenant list? Should I just give up on my ghostly pirate dreams and buy mechanithralls instead?

So far all I have is the mk2 Cryx starter because FLGS had it discounted.

Pirate Ghosts got good. Pirate Zombies got great. Be sure to get yourself a Rengrave.

Revenants are in a pretty bad place right now, and the Undead units in general range from "unplayable trash" to "niche useful" at best. The units that are good on their own merits are Satyxis, Cephalyx Overlords, and Soulhunters.

They're one of the best recursion unit left in the game user....

Deathbound always d3, any model (even weapon attachments), full activations.

Rengrave has call to sacrifice and RAT/MAT-fixes (what is already a gang unit), in addition to the Death Toll shennanigans.

They're in a great place- a "if you've only got one infantry unit, look into this" place.

They're 13/12 with no defensive tech besides d3 recursion, with a mediocre offensive profile even after factoring in Veteran Leader. They're also 17 fuckshitting points before you even factor in weapon attachments or Rengrave.

You're awestruck by a functional recursion mechanic but you fail to see that it's stapled to a trash unit.

Now if you had said "but Blackbane's are not horrible sometimes" I'd have maybe agreed with you, full-unit Incorporeal is at least surprising enough to be useful occasionally.

You're underselling things that are staple-material.

Original asker here, what would you suggest for Cryx infantry if we accept that revenants are bad?

If you're looking for units that will work with pretty much everyone, that'd be Satyxis Raiders and Blood Witches.

If you're really dead set on Revenant Crew, Terminus still wants to have a lot of undead around, but honestly for the price you're paying for a full package you could focus on Mechanithralls and get more than twice the bodies.

Satyxis of any type, Raiders probably being slightly better for general use.

Cephalyx Overlords if you need a small Stealth unit that will do work.

Soulhunters if you want cavalry, they're irresponsibly fast. Bane Cavalry are ALMOST good, but SPD7 with 1" reach is just about an inch too small of threat for them not to get shot to ribbons most of the time, though Darrage Wrathe fixes that with Death Ride so that might be worth a look if you're determined to run them.

No I'm not, I'm being realistic. They're made of wet tissue paper and only have a melee threat of 9.5", and the full package is 28 goddamn points. What happens when they're looking down the barrel of something as simple as Trenchers+Finn, who's guns shoot farther than their melee threat range, hit them on 6s, and kill them without bothering to even roll damage? They just evaporate and can't meaningfully retaliate, and that isn't hugely atypical of the kind of infantry-mulching firepower common on tables these days, god forbid you see WGRC+Joe or [any ret pewpew unit]+Ossyan.

Fuck, they don't even have a Pathfinder-equivalent, you either need to blow caster resources casting Ghost Walk or pay MORE POINTS for Saxon Orrick if you want them to not get dicked over by any random wall or forest that the enemy decides to hide behind or in.

Now you got me looking at terminus. From what I read bane thralls were his jam in mk2, is that no longer the case?

Bane Thralls traded their stealth for the Bane Knight's ghostly ability, and the standard lost tough, which is not so great when everyone's so big on shooting.

Terminus does give them back tough though.

They lost a lot going in to Mk3. Lost Stealth, lost Tough (Terminus gives it back, but Tough itself has been nerfed), and BLT doesn't give them +2" on charges from his Curse anymore. They gained Ghostly and went up to 1" melee, which is ok but doesn't make up for what they lost.

One unit of them might not be bad with casters that can buff them (like Terminus), but they aren't going to be the all-stars like they were in Mk2.

Also something to remember about Terminus, due to the change to Focus overboosting his feat is significantly weaker. It still gives the one turn of insane durability (though there may be less souls on the average table for him to suck up, Mk3 is more warjack-heavy), but once all those souls convert to Focus he becomes killable again. In Mk3 a stack of 5 focus is the same as a stack of 500 focus if the thing that's killing you is a Heavy bonking you 5 times, as opposed to Mk2 where Terminus could sit at like ARM30 for two turns in a row laughing at the world.

Finally got started with the local journeymen league.
Khador is nuts, legion is odd but workable, malekus is a trash tier caster.
Or maybe he's just being used wrong, but I can't see it.

Where can I find all the minis stats cards (simple the stats) Mk3?

Malekus has terrible synergy with his battlebox, but if you build a list tailored to him he can be ballbusting. Problem with him in Journeyman is he hates most of his starting battlgroup and unless the event organizer changes the rules he's stuck with it.

Malekus is fine. Stop being aggressive with him.

The google drive from OP's link list bro

Oh... Thank you!

I thought that link was the MK3 book mirror or something like that.

Bane knights, satyxis blood witches, nyss hunters

Bane thralls are p bad. If you really like terminus i would wait for him to get a resculpt he looks like complete ass

Anyone have the rules for the Hellmouth?

>If this is who you're interested in playing, wait for an indefinite, possibly non-existent point in the future where they can make him with resin and charge double the price for him.

Where's the Trollbloods stat card sheet?

His resculpt is gonna be resin.

I wanna know too actually.

Good. Right now he weighs 20lbs

He also isnt that good. I love him, he was one of my most played casters in mkii, but theres just better options desu

And that is a good thing.

Still won't be enough to unfuck Cryx.

I don't know if this information is privy, but I'm looking to see if anyone knows a retailer that's on PP's 'not a good goy' list, preferrably around the 20%-25% discount range.

The only thing that will unfuck Cryx will be when the top-tier gunlines get nerfed, but you can bet they will.

Aside from getting shot off the table like protestors getting hosed with a watercannon by a few over-the-top lists Cryx is relatively fine in terms of overall powerlevel.

Their big internal balance problem is that they've got like 3 or 4 units (not counting Merc options) that aren't dogshit, which is easy to fix compared to having a bunch of dogshit warcasters. They've got a super deep stable of viable warcasters, which is being held back right now by the fact that every list pair must have a response to super-hard gunlines and Cryx as a faction isn't very good at that.

To return to Revenant chat for awhile, while I can't really argue that some units are just plain better on paper, there is a correct way to field these guys.

You never take a full unit. You take a min unit with 2-3 WAs. If you take one you might as well take 2. Taking Rengrave is more or less mandatory.

There's some value to be had in RNG14 guns that can CRA and ignore cover, concealment and even LOS. There's not a lot of stuff left in the game that can shoot through forests willy nilly. Whether or not you can leverage any of this to make them worth the points is up to you though.

That's WAAAAAAY too many points just to get some RAT5 POW10 popguns on the field, regardless of what they ignore.

Even at min unit + rifles + Rengrave you're looking at 21 points, that's the price bracket that primo workhorse units occupy. It's a full 20% of a 75+30pt list.

At that point you might as well just dip into Mercenaries and take some Steelhead Riflemen if you want guns. Sure, they can't shoot through terrain, but they don't cost a fortune and get more shots overall.

Which is really the problem with Cryx. If our theme is supposed to be about waves of super-cheap, rubbish infantry that need to be supported with magic, then fine. It fits the tone of the army perfectly. But most of our 'Casters don't really support them very well - get get ARM debuffs a plenty, but none of that matters if we can't hit anything or cross the table alive.

Like, I know Cryx needed to be nerfed, and I'm not demanding that we get boosted up to the top of Mk3's power listings. But it sort of feels like we're actively being punished for having been so powerful throughout Mk2.

What's better?
6 Invictors, 6 Sentinels.
Or
10 Sentinels with UA? Rest of the list is mostly jacks and solos.

>our theme is supposed to be about waves of super-cheap, rubbish infantry that need to be supported with magic
It's funny because that's super not true, McThralls* and Carrions both fit that mold and are fine-ish, but like no other Cryx unit is actually below average on cost.

*They're fine until you consider that anti-infantry shooting was pumping iron and taking 'roids during the edition break, and with no defensive tech and their recursion nerfed to hell the McThralls become McDead even faster than you'd expect from a 6/10 unit.

That's why you want more than one unit, you only pay for Rengrave once. That if anything is their primary problem, points wise they're hard to justify unless you take advantage of the force multiplier and get several units, but now your army is largely defined by Revenants. You can't just plug them in to any list as easily and with as little thought as you might Satyxis for example, or even Bane Knights. Realistically you're looking at a minimum commitment of 34 points.

What is the list supposed to do? What do you want to drop it into? What are you pairing it with?

I get what you're saying, but the more you say it the more you convince me that there isn't a single situation where any variation of that package is worth it. That 34 point module will get about as much work done as 19points of Nyss Hunters, quite possibly less.

Helena, Imperatus (maybe change this to some other heavy jack), Gryphon, Manticore, Chimera, Ghost Sniper, and 1/2 Archaists.

I'm not sure if I've really thought about what the list is meant to 'do', other than fight well. Maybe that's a bad approach for WMH. I suppose having a decent stand off game, but capable of some pain close up as well when they've been softened/forced forward.

How are Circle in Mk3? I'm thinking about branching out into a new faction and like the creepy druids and giant werewolves theme. No-one in my group plays Hordes, it's all WM stuff, so I've got no idea how the edition change affected them.

Wouldn't something like this make more sense for her?

(Helynna 1) Magister Helynna [+30]
- Phoenix [18]
- Discordia [18]
- Griffon [8]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Dawnguard Invictors (max) [16]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
- Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard [4]
Ghost Sniper [3]
Ghost Sniper [3]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [3]

You'd have both flavors of Dawnguard, Silly Willy to upkeep Rhythm for you, twice the Ghost Sniper action (I think they're somewhat underappreciated). The Phoenix provides you with a much needed arc node and some hitting power. Discordia in combination with Decel keeps you relatively safe from enemy shooting (thus making your own shooting much more relevant).

But that's just what I'm thinking and I don't play Ret.

>How are Circle in Mk3?
Wormwood is very good indeed. It's their Haley2, if that means anything to you.

>branching out into a new faction
Heh.

Some good ideas here, I'm still unfamiliar with a lot of the faction.

Muh Imperatus....
Also, Discordia looks like ass, but I guess it's pretty powerful. Getting the arc node from Phoenix rather than Chimera was a good idea. Also, what's Lanyssa exactly bringing to the party? Hunters mark?

Beyond that, this looks pretty neat. Oh, except it's 75 points, and my first list was 50. I do like the maxed Dawnguard with snipers, that's a battle line I really like the look of.

Yeah, this is a pretty neat list user, I think I'll build towards it.

>Also, what's Lanyssa exactly bringing to the party? Hunters mark?
Yup. That's exactly why she's there. Free charges and charge distance are really really good.

>Muh Imperatus....
I really don't know how good he is outside of Vyros1.

>except it's 75 points, and my first list was 50
You should probably get used to that. It's the standard game size right now.

They're doing ok competitively, but they seem to be crutching very hard on a few samey list builds, likely by virtue on necessity because most of their faction seems either unequipped to deal with the Mk3 meta or outright shitty.

A lot of their faction identity seems to have been lost in Mk3 as well. They were always known as a fast faction that loved terrain and were good at hit-and-run, but now they've got a bizarre lack of pathfinder or other terrain-ignoring abilities, their heavies top out of SPD6 with barely any spd buffs except Hunter's Mark (which almost anyone can get from Lanyssa), and aside from a Kaya battlegroup and the Warpwolf Stalker nothing in their faction actually hits-and-runs anymore.

Hmm. It was the hit-and-run gameplay that I remembered people talking about during Mk2, combined with the visual theme, that I liked the idea of. I might hang off for the moment then, see how they shape up after the first errata.

Thanks.

The places I knew of bumped everything up to only 10% off since Mk.III dropped, good luck finding someone not trying to earn more while the iron is hot.

Any PGs/EOs around? How do you guys stay sane running events for people? I've been doing this for close to five years now and it's been one incredibly thankless endeavor after another.

How do you keep from murdering people?

Only own really really short-bladed knives - so the blubber protects your "victims", he'll half of them won't notice you've stabbed them.

And subsonic hollow tip soft metal jacket round. Or straight up rock salt.

Before you know it the cunts will be asking for it on their chips.

Think of it this way, you aren't doing it for the thanks, you're doing it because no other chucklefuck wants to and without events the community would die, and that community is what allows you to play games. You're taking an active hand in making sure you've still got a playgroup that isn't just you and two dudebros in a basement.

Yeah it's a pretty flimsy justification, the answer behind the answer is we're actually Skorne and have to suffer for dem Hoksune points.

This is what I've been telling myself but I think in at the point where its not worth it anymore. I never did this for points or thank yous and none of it is fun anymore.

Oh well, rant over

You don't need to tolerate shit people. If you're volunteering for a LGS let the manager know there's a problem, what it is and that you can't keep volunteering if the problem persists. A good volunteer is worth a lot to an LGS and you can expect a non-shit manager to put some effort in to keep you. Always go through the manager though, the moment you try to solve shit on your own you become a bad volunteer and should probably quit for everyone's benefit.

If you're not volunteering for an LGS but instead just a local enthusiast or club member, crack the fuck down. Pinpoint the problems and solve them. You're not getting paid to take shit and you should take none. Set some ground rules and make people follow them if they want to participate in your stuff. Just remember that sometimes the problem is you. Look long and hard if the shit you need to fix is in fact your own shit, fix that first, and if shit goes downhill later on, it wasn't your shit.

This is some solid advice here,and not only applies to volunteering

...or is it applies not only to volunteering?
This triggered my autism

The latter is better, but both work.

Any way to see the cards before I buy them? I just want to know if fennblades aren't terrible.

Look for the leaked PDFs. And no, Fennblades are as good as Hordes infantry is allowed to be.

I don't see trollbloods in the drive link so I guess I'll ask here.

I've been considering splitting the two player starter set with someone who plays skorne, just the thing is I already have ten Fennblades, so twenty fennblades seems excessive unless I'm missing something from the cards/new stats I haven't looked at yet.

Also, I'd rather not get an uglier version of the Impaler which I already have and I don't know what the new Warlock does so I've been rather hesitant.

If you don't want the Fennblades there's no reason to get the 2 player box. The only other good models are the Gladiator, Ragnar and the Axer.

Our problem IS the manager of the biggest LGS and best place to run events. So I'm kinda fucked. Cracking down has just led to the manager and I not getting along and people just being shitty to eachother

I don't have the patience or the energy for that shit so I'm spending more time at a smaller, but much friendlier store that actually supports people. Eventually it'll get big enough that we don't need the other place, until I just have to avoid punching shitty people over a stupid miniature game

What specifically is happening. "People are pissing me off" doesn't tell you how to deal with a situation. Just the fact that people piss you off.

Because I know a lot of guys who lose their shit at others over minis games for a lot of petty reasons.

Does Kara Sloan's spells like fire group and such affect living models as well? Or just the Jacks attached. I have a 25 point list with her, a defender, a hunter, and a 10 man lon rifle squad with an officer attachment.
And a mechanic with 3 helpers.

Opinions on list? Sorry for terrible format.

if all you need is a venue for events, check out church/community halls. they are often cheeeap to hire and will usually have a stack of trestle tables and all the chairs you could ever need.

kara is battlegroup oriented. it is her and her jacks. she has nothing to benefit units.

Ah ok. Would this be any better? Thanks

>Because I know a lot of guys who lose their shit at others over minis games for a lot of petty reasons.
Too true.

I don't want to get into the whole thing but it's just a lot of being rude, generally being unsupportive and just being an ass.

For example, we had one player who painted up a lot of nice and expensive terrain from Broken Egg and s couple other places. Really nice stuff, and the shop told them we will never use this crap. We're only going to use our mouse pad terrain.

Stuff like refusing to let a player use their GenCon Elara for some indescribable reason at a recent event.

They've also ignored complaints about one or two really toxic players that have been causing problems. They don't care and just let them be assholes.

Stuff like that. It's been a long time thing that's been going on for years at this point. I could go on but I just don't care anymore, I wanted to run events because I love the game and this has sucked all the joy of of it.

conflictchamber.com/#b10p9a9E9keO9c

Cygnar Army - 25 / 25 points

(Sloan 1) Captain Kara Sloan [+28]
- Defender [16]
- Hunter [11]
- Dynamo [18]
- Firefly [8]

is a bit tastier on my tongue.

dynamo benefits from firefly. electro leaps leap.

or

conflictchamber.com/#b10p9a9E9k9k9ga3

Cygnar Army - 25 / 25 points

(Sloan 1) Captain Kara Sloan [+28]
- Defender [16]
- Hunter [11]
- Hunter [11]
- Grenadier [9]
Trencher Cannon Crew [6]

crew do the grenadier.

why the points value? is it journeyman? if so;

conflictchamber.com/#b10p9a9E9k9g9T9V9W

Cygnar Army - 25 / 25 points

(Sloan 1) Captain Kara Sloan [+28]
- Defender [16]
- Hunter [11]
- Grenadier [9]
Trencher Infantry (min) [10]
- Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [5]
- Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenadier (1) [2]

might not be bad. the trenchers you can expand when you can. and 2 grenadiers seems to be popular.

the problem with the great charger is it wants a focus over the powerup. which kara can't exactly afford. so you could arlen in there, but for now shit that carries its own weight seems a better option. and functional cloud walls in the form of the not shit trenchers.

>and if you have to buy a trencher set up, they'll work with just about any/every other caster.

Have any of you guys played around with Kraye this edition? What are your thoughts?

So steam is fading fast from my group again and our short trysts with other war games during the wait for MK3 has served to only splinter our group permanently.

A lot of our Hordes players are not happy with their faction at the moment and a few of our Warmachine players aren't liking the warjack requirements in this edition.

Right now Guild Ball, Age of Sigmar and Bolt Action are eating our new players up with Infinity and Kings of War eating up our former vets.

Am I alone in experiencing this fracture, and if not what can I do to revitalize the spirit for the game? Our tournament last week only had 6 people attend...an all time low.

Sounds great bro, thanks for the input! Yeah I noticed trenchers got way buffed compared to mk2.

Accept the death peacefully and move on to something better

It's all in pulses user. People come, people go, people come back.

Best you can do is foster a positive gaming comunity and attract people in with the unspoken promise of playing a game with cool people, because that's what it's all about in the end.

Personally I just play multiple games, depending on the scene. Played warmachine, become a toxic net listing/WAAC scene. Switched to guild ball. Became a "we tell you what to do with your models" kind of scene. Started infinity. Became a "we don't support a growing scene, we'll ignore the scene bleeding out, we're never wrong".

Last game I added was malifaux, and I play it with one guy, and tell everyone who asks about it how cool it is but firmly tell them I'm not trying to sell them on it because there's not many players.

I wish so many nerds weren't such trashy people that destroy everything they touch.