Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

I'll admit, Illidan is one of my favorite Warcraft characters. Sure, he's Edgelord Supreme and my appreciation of him derives from me playing Warcraft III as a teenager, but he's fun, damn it.

I liked Illidan when he was a flawed character. I loathe this whole "dindu nuffin" bullshit they're pushing with him now.

But user Illidan didn't do anything wrong.

These threads have their fair share of hot-headed, cancerous faction wankers.

Adjust your bust. It's being worked on.

I just finished the Illidan book today. It doesn't really make him out as a dindu, at least not as much as the meme.

It does change his motivation so that he's always been opposed to the Burning Legion, and that everything he tried to do for them was to try and infiltrate them. Reason being that the ritual of becoming a Demon Hunter gave him (and everyone else that has gone through the ritual) a vision of everything terrible the Burning Legion has done, and will do.

However, while it does establish Illidan as having good intentions, he's not really a good person. He's very much a "by any means necessary" kind of person, willing to sacrifice everyone else for what is basically his personal mission to destroy the Burning Legion, because it's the greater good, even if that means basically doing some pretty bad stuff, like creating fel orcs (which, although the book itself doesn't really talk about where these recruits come from, IIRC TBC mentions or implies that many are Mag'har orcs kidnapped and forcibly modified), and issuing cruel punishment.

So, he does still have some flaws, at least from the Illidan novel; just not quite the same flaws.

>illidan dindu nuffin
>arthas dindu nuffin
>garithos dindu nuffin
>daelin proudmoore dindu nuffin
>garrosh dindu nuffin
>sylvanas dindu nuffin

Warcraft fandom is just a bunch of dindus spamming "dindu nuffin" at each other.

>this post will get several responses such as "but [insert character on list here that the replying poster likes most] actually didn't do anything wrong"

Velen dindu nuffin.
No, really. Old faggot's been sitting in his spaceship with his thumb up his ass for the past 10 years instead of doing anything.

New book makes Illidan less evil but more of an asshole. Sure he has good intentions but he's being a bastard about going through them. I think one of the best ways to look at it is this way;

>Illidan imprisoned by Maiev
>Magical enchantments made so he doesn't get hungry or thirsty
>Plenty of room in his cell to pace, including a bed
>Probably got visited by horny Watchers who thought he was hot

>Maiev imprisoned by Illidan
>Rarely given food or drink, was pissed in when it was given to her
>Chained to a wall throughout
>Literally had a Dreadlord constantly describing all the methods of torture he would use the moment Illidan gave to word
>All of this after watching her entire force get brutally ambushed and have their very souls ripped out
>Illidan constantly brooded over making her suffer for all the years he 'suffered'

Illidan's a whiny faggot.

His insanity during BC came out of nowhere. Literally the justification was "man he just couldn't take losing. MY CRAZY BROTHER AM I RIGHT?" Illidan's characterization as a madman made no fucking sense. I'm not saying he's ever been a real cool dude, but he never did anything without a logical reason. It's just that Illidan's entire theme is "you took it too far." In BC he was just crazy because "we needed a raid boss or something"

I thought they actually admitted that they shit the bed with BC lore?

The book makes things much more clear, sort of.

The Illidan book and then the YouTube audio drama made me enamored with Maiev once again. The Wardens are fucking cool.

They pretty much did. Instead of him just being a fucking loon, they instead made it clear "maybe he could have handled things better, but it was all to stop the legion, and to be real, Outland is a shit hole anyway."

Like, the story of BC is that the Legion invades Azeroth through the Dark Portal, so you go through, hold them off, and-- immediately go back to Azeroth to go through Medivh's attic, kill energy space mummies and skeksis, and go kill Illidan while the Legion corrupts Kael'thas and preps to hit the sunwell. From Illidan's perspective it's like. "You stupid fucks. Piss off. I can't even go to another DIMENSION to save Azeroth without you dumbfucks interfering."

Playable Harpies when?

I was actually surprised to see him at Varian's memorial. I thought Velen was like Zordon, being stuck in a tube.

do you have a link to it plz broctopi

sounds like after legion more races will be able to become DH's.

After looking up and having it segway into Garrosh the Orcs really are the dindust of dindus.

Like seriously in any other circumstance and any other fantasy setting everyone would be 200 million percent justified to wipe them all out. I forget how ridiculous it is.

>Make a random covenant with demons and rape and slaughter the chill Draenei for no raisin when they were doing nuthin other than horsecocking eachother.
>Go and invade another fucking world completely unrelated to you with not the slightest bit of ambiguity about if you're a good guy or a bad guy and try to slaughter rape and subjugate them.
>DO IT AGAIN.
>Dindu nuffin while you are in your internment camps instead of being wiped out to a last.
>Go and do so in miniature in Kalimdor against night elves
>Things calm down for a bit with Thrall in charge.
>Here comes Garrosh
>Try and wipe out everyone and subjugate everyone again, once more referring to demonic power. Actually worse than demons since it's old gods.
>LITERALLY ENGAGE IN WIM-WAM-WOBLY TIME TRAVEL TO LITERALLY SUBJUGATE AND RAPE THE DRAENEI AND HUMANS AND OTHER RACES OF AZEROTH -AGAIN-.

Lemme predict the next expansion for you

>Orc makes a covenant with the Voidbeings after Sargeras and the demons are removed as the biggest baddest evil.

And all because Ner'zhul failed to realize his wife was actually the demons.

gas the forsaken race war now

when Orc apologists bring up the internment camps it's the only time I ever get mad about this fucking lore

you fucking invaded from another planet and tried to genocide everyone twice. You're going to fucking complain about being put in camps?

Lucky they weren't genocided out of hand

How so?

youtube.com/watch?v=a_xFZ7b6tOk&list=PLQL12cnGPRPZt1nrLH1nHwrExNdhcZgjA

Azerothi Man's Burden.

Why would anyone complain about that?

The internment camps forced many orcs to work through the demonic rage, which is what let them form a functional society afterwards. Orcs wouldn't realize that what Thrall was promising was a good thing without having been contained in internment camps beforehand

we wuz chieftains n shiet

After playable arakkoa.

Daelin was right, Jaina is right, the humans didn't have to deal with this shit before the orcs show up.

All your races a shit. Ogres only acceptable new race.

That's on the list of races I want to be playable, too.

Not before playable High Elves, mag'har, Broken and Forest Trolls.

strawpoll.me/11051246

Help me. I can't decide.

Ogres and Naga, then Nerubians

Is female Illidan a yandere?

Also if it matters DK has been my main since wotlk. Hunter before then.

DK then

For male Tyrande

>farming this chucklefucks since the start of MoP
>still no mount

I guess, was just kind of thinking of something different.

Apparently they said in some interview that alternative skins, like forest troll or mag'hari orc, is something they'd like to implement if they find time to add it.

Speaking of what to play, I've still got a lvl 100 boost unused from buying Legion, and thinking of using it to make a healer (already have a max level mainspec tank, melee, and ranged character). I can't decide between priest and shaman, though. Which one would be more fun to play?

I've heard more positives about shaman, plus you have two different DPS offspecs just in case. Rather than meme to madness.

I'm glad that racist cartoon Vol'jin is dead.

I'd suggest sticking with your main, but maybe do the artifact quests for a few characters early in the expansion. See which one has the lore and mechanics that most appeal to you.

Resto druid is my personal favorite, HoTing all day. Resto shaman is great fun in dungeons and when people remember to STAND IN HEALING RAIN GOD DAMN IT, but their peak AoE healing has taken a hit with chain heal's nerf.

Recently power leveled a mistweaver through invasions and dungeons, and it's surprisingly fun. It's nice to be able to mix a kick or two into combat when healing isn't needed, without having to stance dance to do it. It's also a surprisingly good solo spec.

Holy paladin is the only paladin spec worth playing, and while I like it, like holy priest it just doesn't appeal to me as much as my druid.

Disc priest is... it works. And while I love the shoot-to-heal concept of atonement, it just doesn't feel right to me. Mostly shadow mend. It's a big heal that puts a DoT on the target, and putting DoTs on who I'm trying to heal feels fundamentally WRONG.

So I'll second and say shaman, or druid, because they also have great off-specs if you decide you don't like their healing styles.

Elemental is tons of fun, enhancement is different, but not in a bad way. Just slightly less fun than elemental for me.

Feral and Guardian are both great at their jobs and great fun. Balance isn't a clusterfuck for once, and with guardian affinity they're the tankiest ranged DPS outside of a warlock.

>High Elves
Bow to the lord regent, traitor

Get cucked by more humans, edgelord.

, Well, we can at least know that those people will spend the majority of their lives getting things wrong and feeling like they're stupid when inevitably their misinformation they constantly think is accurate gets slapped away like the poorly constructed facade it is.

People like that feign self-confidence but ultimately are aware of how little they actually know because it keeps getting thrown at them in little ways all their lives; how they're less successful then other people, when their friends are surprised that they aren't aware of some of the most basic facts of reality, how they keep getting surprised by shit everyone already knows, etc.

>I'd suggest sticking with your main, but maybe do the artifact quests for a few characters early in the expansion. See which one has the lore and mechanics that most appeal to you.
I guess I might as well, but I can't decide between frost and UH. Frost has lore relevant artifact. UH has the actually fun spec.

Why do warcraft elves dislike shoes?

In that case, go with what's fun to play. It's a game first, so entertainment value is important.

Maybe there will be interesting background details with Unholy's weapon. There's supposed to be class hall missions that are all about discovering as much about your weapon as possible, so you can use it better. Mechanically, they give an artifact power gain multiplier. I'm really hoping they actually include bits of lore.

They're descended from trolls, who also dislike shoes.

And the druids probably like the in touch with nature hippie angle.

And orcs also tend not to wear shoes.

good point

Slow down nigger

No one has ever claimed Arthas dindu nuthin.

People always claim he was right, they are also correct in their thought process too.

>gas the forsaken
And that would accomplish what, exactly?

>list of "did nothing wrong"
You forgot Sargeras.

Nah, betraying and murdering your mercenaries is doing something. I can accept destroying the ships so his men will be forced to fight, and fight hard, against the undead. But killing those who showed him loyalty, without the slightest hint of remorse?

And having shitty communication skills when trying to get Uther to go along with purging Stratholme was doing something, too.
>As your future king, I order you!
Instead of
>You weren't there when this happened before. I was. As cruel as it may seem, the alternative is the agonizing transformation into undead.
He TRIED to say that, but fucked it up royally because Arthas never trained up his diplomatic skills.

I may be wrong, but aside from the initial quest to get them, lore doesn't really have a part to play for artifacts. So while it may be good to take the shards of frostmourne and make new weapons, it's kind of irrelevant after that.

Well, you can always gas them with their own plague. Get rid of those abominations.

He passed his moral event horizon in Strat, after that it was all downhill, and he knew it himself.

Doesn't the closing bit from mission 12 say he went out to die in the snow after he "killed" Mal'Gannis? It's just that Frostmourne managed to get him to embrace nilhism and Ner'zul.

Better smelling undead?

I always found it funny when you go to Draenor. You're this refined, civilized blood elf or something and suddenly you're hanging out with orcs who give you skimpy furs and robes to wear which leave nothing to the imagination and insist you take part in their heathen rituals. It must be maximum awkward both physically and mnetally.

Mercenaries knew he burned the ships, his men still wouldn't fight if they knew.

I also agree Stratholme could have had more tact but being in articulate doesn't make him wrong and he was literally on a clock so he couldn't argue ethics with Uther for an hour.

They were both too stubborn as well. Jaina who could have bridged the gap opted out too which didn't help things.

Jaina and Uther had a high horse to ride away with. Arthas had a kingdom to try and save.

Mostly excluded druid because I was thinking of making a Draenei (they're my favourite Alliance race, although if NElfs had remained like in WC3 they'd be a very close contender), and because I like collecting transmog sets which is kind of pointless for druid when you're going to spend 90% of time as a cat/bear/owl/tree.
I do have a pally as my main, but I've been maining prot for so long it'd be hard to switch to holy.

If you need the greatest paladin in the land to betray his faith, his oaths, and everything he's lived for, it's your job to convince him to do. You can't just say "because I told you to" and expect him to do it.

Ohh I agree with you there. I think Uther was the wrong person to put Arthas with considering who he was and the decisions he might one day end up having to make. And the personality clash, that even Uther recognised if that letter he sent to one of the other Paladins was anything to go by

But the confrontation at Strat had been brewing since Arthas had said something was fishy about what the Blackrocks were up to and Uther essentially said lol no, we fucked up their demons nothing to worry about there.

Yeah, there are bits of lore included on the weapons through class hall stuff. It's all text-based which is somewhat fine by me but given some of the cool "flashback" stuff they have done now it would be awesome to live out part's of each artifact's history in-game too.

All if that convincing takes time, a lot of time. By the time you could convince him it could already be too late.

He played the rank card because he didn't want to spend any more time arguing.

It was just as much a total abortion of the lore as well.

>World STILL rebuilding from the Legion and Scourge invasions. All but 2 human kingdoms fallen, and one of them is isolationist.

Reestablish contact. Find that longest standing allies are now close with your ancient kinsmen and kind of nervous about your ley-line workings. Admit that it's risky as hell and alternatives are being sought out.

Discover a low end, run-of-the-mill espionage ring. Rather than capitalize on blowing it's cover for diplomatic gains, kill all involved, including an ambassador, and sever contact with the nations said ambassador represented.

Sign up with the leftovers of the Scourge and the greenskins that tried to wipe them out and started the downfall of High Elven civilization in the Second War.

>Apparently being spied upon is a far more unforgivable crime than attempted genocide.

>After playable arakkoa
That's some fine-ass fuckin' taste you got there familam.

>Shit-ton of new Arakkoa lore added in WoD
>Already split down the middle with a bunch of asshole pure Arakkoa that could've been redeemed by the Alliance and a bunch of shadowy pissed off outcasts that the Horde would've loved to recruit
>Practically the entire expansion is fucking dropped the moment it ends

I'll never get playable Dark Rangers either. Hell, when are we gonna get a healer that uses a dark power source?

>sylvanas is warchief
>Vol'jin
>A undead who cares for her own self and people is warchief

What the fuck was point of getting Vol'in warchief to just kill him next expansion. Plus why Sulvanas of all other leaders for warchief, what the absolute fuck did I return to?

Lor'themar would have been better. Not only is he a better character, but all the shrieking from the hordebabies would have been pure music.

>Already split down the middle
And both cursed and uncursed arakkoa decide that demons are bad news, so they form the Order of the Awakened. Which would've been a great choose-your-side neutral faction akin to Wandering Isle pandaren.

>I'll never get playable Dark Rangers either.
Marksmanship hunters ditch the pet and can pick up Black Arrow as a talent, so they can kind of scratch that itch. Not quite, but kind of close.
>Hell, when are we gonna get a healer that uses a dark power source?
Disc priest and their Shadow Mend. It's not pure 'dark', but it's there.

>was point of getting Vol'in warchief

I assume people got angry about him and Blizz chose to kill him or they wanted to do some bad surprise.

>shrieking
With the belf fangirls squealing in ecstasy forming a chorus.

He wasn't interesting enough and spoke in an infuriating accent. Nobody liked him and he died like a dog. I'm surprised the Horde didn't throw his body in a ditch instead of burning him.

Feel bad for Baine as he lost a good friend.

Probably. Which would only serve to get the corpse lovers and orc wannabes even more riled up.

>infuriating accent

>got angry about him
Vol'jin elicited reactions of "make sense" or "why should I care?" He never got much hate.

So yes, they killed him off purely to put Sylvanas in charge, to encourage more poorly thought out faction conflict.

I get angry every time Vol'jin speaks. It's annoying, why can't he talk like a normal person? I'm glad he's dead.

> Plus why Sulvanas of all other leaders for warchief
>"The spirits have granted me clarity. A vision. They whisper a name..."
Vol was delusional.

>talk like a normal person
>A race of trolls based on Jamaican shit

Calm down rasta

The horde was doomed leadership wise the moment Cairne was killed.

I used to work with a Jamaican guy. He was really laid back and laughed a lot. Vol'jin just pisses me off.

Baine Bloodhoof for warchief when?

>but kind of close
Now if I could just shit skeletons while darkening the sky with a gorillion arrows it would be perfect. Ah, well. Can't have everything, I suppose.

Seriously, though, I cannot believe they added another leather dps/tank class when there's only two Mail classes. Dark Rangers would've filled so many niches it's crazy. Mail, ranged weapon, dark power source, give 'em a healing spec and you've got another class that actually uses spirit mail, too. I mean, I understand that Demon Hunters make more sense for the Legion expansion, and that it'd probably be too much work to explain why the Alliance has access to Dark Rangers or a shallow equivalent, but I'd still like to see it.

Never. I doubt he knows how to put on his pants by himself, let alone run a Cold War nation group.

Saurfang for Warchief 2016.

Make the Horde great again.

The only right answer.