What went wrong?

What went wrong?

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>the "SUPER ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY!" backdrop was only used in the laziest way to justify DnDisms like magic items and fighter/rogue/mage classes
>Setting doesn't explore the oddities it could really offer instead having a lake named Dog something (I forget) then going on about how no one knows what a dog is anyway.
>while the system isn't quite caster supremacy (at least not in the ways 3.5 is) casters still get a great mass of the content of the game as well as having the showiest door-stopper powers

Pretty much he wanted to make a super unique setting idea but didn't put the work in to make it any more unique than the setting concept.

Not enoguh black dingus and diversity

The mechanics ranged from neat to okay, but the setting was pretty much blah. It ended up feeling like generic fantasy except with different words for what did the generic fantasy stuff. Once the glow of "I'm not casting a spell, I'm using nanites to manufacture a fireball" type stuff wore off, it got boring fast. I feel like if they weren't trying to keep the warrior, wizard, rogue thing going on, they would have been able to create better balance and fluffy rules for the game that made it not feel so dull after playing for a short while.

Nothing, desu. It is different.

I like it. I still play it. Setting is interesting and I like it because it is NOT as defined as in some other games. There is actually room for using own imagination and opportunity to implement own ideas without having to stomp on something already written.

System is simple and that is the point of it. But I know that this game or even the game system isn't for everyone. It is too light for people who want a roll game and that is probably what bothers most. Dunno.

why does the mage guy has glowing nipples under his regular nipples?

what? it's a postapocalyptic setting without dogs? you can't have a dog companion? PREPOSTEROUS!

Anyone have a pdf of the Torment Explorer's Guide?

so if it's "good idea, bad execution", how do we fix it?

It isn't cool.

Like every place name and high-level NPC and monster and whatever just sounds like the gayest shit, because it is.

There's a cool idea buried in badly written lame DONUT STEEL which you can find at the beginning of any session with a bad DM fond of exposition.

And nobody wants to play this shit in real life we're all just waiting for the vidya, so who cares anyway?

I'm playing TTON now. I really like it. Maybe it is better as a videogame. It can have all this dense lore and stuff transmitted more naturally to the player without a GM just exposition dumping all over your face and chest. It can be filtered more, the player has more control over how and when he experiences it.

Anyway, yeah, the game is great. Pretty glitchy and unpolished since it's early access but I love the quests, dialogue, various systems and choices so far. Great for a speech-focused kind of character.

Hi Monte.

Nothing, the game is everything it pitched for. So solid delivery. If you don't like the content - your problem, but I'm glad I've got exactly what the pitch was about.

>Fixing
This is not 3.x, mate. So keep your fixes for yourselves

They didn't make the guy on the right's nipples glow

oh look it's this thread again.

Degenesis did it better.

What intellectual property is this. It looks interesting, but I don't recognize it.

How much do you think is Monty Kook making of this license?

The classes are stupid, and brings the game down. They should have been more odd. Everything should have been more odd.

3$ / day. Which is okay.

Mag.. I mean NUMANUMA POWERS!

i have a feeling it's going to be more than that

Your brains degenerated by years of dnd hack n slash is what went wrong. Gotta use some imagination let it work in cooperation with other people. Numenera is a dramatic story driven RPG where you don't get experience for mindless killing. You gotta explore and discover secrets of civilisations long gone. But nobody described them, so to have fun both GM and players have to work hard together. This is no game for unimaginative dumbasses that have never read a book in their life. Face it.

Thank you for Correcting The Record, Monty.

Numenera

It's weird for the sake of being weird. Also, I get that's part of the setting, but there's zero cohesion going on. Not to mention keeping the world mysterious and strange while also releasing new books fleshing it out simply doesn't work.

>a hideo kojima game
Why stop here. They should've made BY MONTE COOK bigger than the title.

>Game made for casual players
>Game funded by casual players
>Game played by casual players
>"HURRR NOT WEIRD ENOUGH DURRR"
Your typical fa/tg/uy grognard

>It's weird for the sake of being weird
It was the main selling point of the game, so what's your problem?

And what's yours? That's the only reason why Veeky Forums even bothered with the game, since rest of marketing was aimed for casual players and people starting with TTRPG. So any crafty saler would further increase the potential target if all the cost of it would be printing big "by That Guy You Know Or Heard About". It costs nothing, but increase sales by few percents.

Only 3.x babies bought/played Numenera. The problem with appealing to this audience is that they really only want to play 3.x. Numenera tries too hard to be "D&D but different and better" but winds up just being D&D without the benefit of nostalgia blindness to all of D&D's attendant problems.

It is not bad
There is nothing to hate in it
When it comes to RPG systems, nobody really cares about their quality. People play pathfinder for example just because it is the one being played locally. People play MTG because it is the card game to play locally.

Numenera to be is just another rpg ruleset in many that never gets played because nobody cares

>When it comes to RPG systems, nobody really cares about their quality.
I do.

My group continuously rotates through different systems for different campaigns. If the system is bad the campaign gets dropped early.

I am talking at macro scale here you know

Nothing. It's pretty successful. A lot of people play it and are still playing it.

Well, people who endorse any game THAT WAY are quite obviously shilling, yes.

It's a far future high technology game where you can't have a mech. That fact alone is more than enough to damn it in my eyes.

What is "That way" precisely?

Why exactly You can't have mech in numenera? Your GM's mind is the only limit.

By that logic, your GM can let you have a machine gun in D&D, a fire breathing dinosaur in Call of Cthulhu, and a fighter jet in exalted. Sure, you technically can have that stuff, but the system was never intended nor designed to let you do that.

A system should not be praised for something the GM does.

But Exalted has an actual Fighter Jet, the "Five-Metal Shrike."

...

Beep! Wrong! You get an F, please sit down. Thank You.
System has nothing to do with it. It is the setting that does.
MG in dnd? Possible in Mechanus or Spelljammer.
Firebreathing dino in Call of Cthulhu? Let it be in Dreamlands, alien planet or something a'la Verne's Journey to the centre of the earth.
Mech in numenera? There must have been some military civilisation somwhere. Players find an ancient base and salvage a walker. Unfortunatelly guns dont work, gotta find some other piece of numenera to slap onto mech... and voila! The mech repairs/upgrades drive the whole story.
Just accept your mistakes and learn. Also go and read some books. You dont need to neck yourself if you dont feel like it.

>Monte's newest Kickstarter has a minimum pledge of $197
>Getting the rules + setting book costs $539

THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN

There's no D&D that gives XP solely on creatures killed.

After 2e, which gave XP for gold acquired, you gained XP for the type of challenges you overcame, ranging from settling diplomatic disputes, sneaking past guards, disabling traps, or, yes, fighting.

>focus

This is where my own experience with Nu-Men Era soured almost instantly. Our GM gushed about how you create characters using this super innovative manner of describing them as, "an ADJECTIVE NOUN who VERBS", and that would determine their abilities. Well, just as we started thinking of description combos like some sort of D&D Mad Libs our GM sheepishly muttered that there was a (very small) list of Foci we had to pick from. And since it's wacky ol' Numenera, most of it meshes for shit. Why is lycanthropy (especially when you can pick shit like dinosaurs as a transformation) a core option anyway?

This got worse in The Strange, because it's assumed your characters have their abilities change when you Translate to a new Recursion, but the book only gives you two non-human races and a handful of abilities to apply to them. The fucking system basically expects you, the GM, to basically make the equivalent of entire character classes yourself. Oh, and here's a bunch of public domain worlds to draw inspiration from.

Gurps.

Even has suggestions for balancing such things in silly and less silly games.

The solution where guns aren't really common is "suck it bitch, mages don't like guns, have spells that deflect bullets" and where magic doesn't exist "maintenance is a bitch, this is very very expensive"

Like, for every Tech Level above the campaign, you double cost. This is sometimes even a "good deal" if you are an early adapter or have access to Batman/Movie Like inventions or prototypes and a lot of money, and if something is cheap (Post Apoc and lowish tech level and going for shotguns? Good deal. Shotguns are really cheap.)

Well made assault rifle in Land of the Lost or being Ash Williams? Suddenly you are spending a lot of points/money. But then, it's sort of fair, really. Especially if you tally up the Boomstick, the Chainsaw, AND the Car. The Car is actually one of the bigger prices since hies Stoeger Coach Gun (It's not a Remington) and the Chainsaw are pretty cheap.

If you factor in the idea of Destiny and him being the Chosen one or whatever and that not just being a mistake by the locals and actually really being true, he's more expensive - But still comically weak because probably the only expensive or good things about the character are "has bought off weakass pacifism and has laid on some nerve about fighting bad stuff" and "has gun and stuff". Otherwise he's actually not super punchy as a fighter. He lacks skill. But he IS tough, I guess. Ash would be really fucking tough, but be working off of possibly defaults in some cases, even. When he really tries and gets lucky, it works. Otherwise he fails miserably.

The setting does not exist in a vacuum. It stands alongside the rules of the game, which also dictate how the universe works on the tabletop. The rules and setting of the Numenera game don't allow the player to have mechs. It was never intended, that's why there's no rules for them. Which is really weird, because it seems like an obvious thing that would happen in the kind of setting they were going for.

Now, the GM can do whatever they want, no one can really stop them. But if they sit down and hammer out solid rules for mechs and interpret or even change the setting so that it allows for them, that's still not a point in Numenera's favor. The system didn't do that. The designers didn't do that. The GM did.

I'm DMing Numenera right now and everyone has been really enjoying it so far. The only problem I've been having so far is that cyphers seem to be pretty vestigial as nobody uses them.

Dear lord, you are an aggressive cunt.

Fuck off back to your new cult game.

>Good DM
eeeehhhh, I see where your coming from but thats just not true? Corebooks dont always have the information people need.

And it could be argued that a GM's job isn't to create mechanics but to tell some kind of story so if mechanics are missing from a rulebook, creating supplements so a GM can use their time writing characters and plot hooks rather than homebrew a bunch of rules may be a better alternative than not having that supplement.

Shill, please.

>Nu-Men Era
>my mind gets blown
>tell it to friends at a session
>moment of silence
>their heads burst
>sometimes I am very happy that english is not our native language

Thanks user. You made our day and improved life quality by million times.

You people behind the ocean have curiously caged minds. I will blame it on cultural differences and never argue with you again.

Convenient that you should give up now, as you seem to have run out of any arguments of merit. I agree that we should never argue again, as I hate having a battle of wits with someone unarmed.

I say it again, its like Monte wanted to make a weird bizarre psychedelic sci fi fantasy setting, like Prophet, Dune or Heavy Metal Moebius\Druillet stuff but the poor fucker never did enough drugs.

Nevertheless its an okay world. Reminds me of Phantasy Star.

One interesting thing to consider is that it was almost certainly timed originally to coincide with TToN since that game was meant to already be out before the PnP. It should have had a huge boost from that, in the way that DnD got countless boosts (although obviously it was popular among fa/tg/entlemen already) from games throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s.

InXile picked a PnP that was about to come out so they probably got the license for free as they be promoting it automatically, and MCG got to have a videogame bring its setting to the (relative) masses.

But now TToN is delayed until 2017.

>Your taunt is succesfull. Enemy gets back into melee.

We don't think about tabletop in the same categories. For me game mechanics is mostly unneeded part that only causes trouble. Thus setting on its own is everything one needs to have nice sessions of rpg.

(You) see it as a game with set rules. Which are there so everybody feels fair while playing. Things are clear and set in stone. Gaming aspect dominates the session.

I see it as a "fun oriented activity" (the word I would use does not translate to english well) were rules only help when in doubt. Things are fluid and not fair. Fun aspect rules over the story.

I don't know. What is this for?

Shit son, that was a tasty roast

It was broken unplayable shit until The Taken King. It's less shit now.

I do, want me to post it? Is that okay?

I also could use that pdf.

please post it user, i almost bought it yesterday

dont bring that stupid fucking /v/ definition of shilling here user, fucking chinks

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that we were working within your own personal definition of an RPG. I'm so very sorry I can't read your mind over the internet, and I must express my sincerest apologies that I don't operate within your magical fantasy wonderland.

In case you haven't guessed, I don't give a shit what you think RPGs are or aren't, and nobody else does either. That's not what the argument is about.

>supposed to be a game set in the inconceivably distant future, with a completely different culture and ecology
>the classes are fighter, mage, and fighter/mage
>everything else also fits perfectly into normal fantasy roleplaying cliches

A waste of a perfectly good concept. Every time Monte stumbles into some logical consequence of a distant-future setting, he feels the need to explain it away with handwaving, technobabble, and author fiat. has it right with Dog Lake. The game had a perfectly good chance to explore what it's like when the cultural memory of a species outlives the species itself (like our misconceptions about extinct animals, or ancient China's half-remembered notions of what a lion is.) Instead it's used as a dumb gag that neither the GM nor the players can do anything with, probably the result of Monte forgetting the rules of his own setting and then re-remembering them later in editing.

next question is how? I can't upload the file, its too big.

ANYONE IN THIS THREAD THAT WANTS THE PDF, ADD ME ON SKYPE, I'LL GET IT TO YOU TOMORROW harvey.vdarski

Somehow during the original argument I managed to read Your mind over internet and managed to understand why we even argued in the first place. This argument sprung to existence because our cultures approach RPG differently. The idea I presented to You is not my personal belief, as most of people that play RPG in my country share the same way of having fun at tabletop.

And yet You still dont get the fact that somewhere else people play RPG in a different way? That not every culture shares Your gamistic approach. Me and my friends love Numenera as the book is a great runway for our imaginations, that provides perfect soylent for our stories.

This only proves You are a hardhead stubborn person that has his mind closed. You wear blinders that tunnel Your vision to the point that anything new or alien is not acceptable.

You are not at the centre of the world. Realise that, the sooner you do, the better.

you could upload it to some fileshare site and then post a link to said fileshare site in this thread...

... wouldn't a grognard prefer the basic/standard classes? Do you know what grognard is or do you just like the way trendy words taste in your mouth?

Yeah.

I haven't read the setting my self but my friend who always bitches about my homebrewed settings being shallow and unoriginal liked it so I sort of figured this was what was going.

It's nice having friends with consistently bad tastes. Saves me a lot of time and money by simply avoiding things they say they liked.

Why do game designers still insist on giving the 'magical' class the coolest and often most powerful powers? Is the pull of DnD3e still so strong? Or is it nerds wanting to get back at the jocks that bullied them in high school?

Probably because it's easy to justify magic doing cool shit

Because it's Monte Cook we are talking a, the guy who wanted a nerf to martial classes and buffs to wizards and sorcerers back in dnd 3 and 3.5 era

dndwithpornstars.blogspot.ca/2016/08/monte-cook-and-you.html?zx=c96b65136528409c

That's what went wrong.

>Octopus reference
That's where it went RIGHT.

>most of the people in my country
>thinks he speaks for even a tiny fraction of his country
what a retard

Doesn't needing a book to fuel your imagination kind of undermine how your games are 100% pure whimsy and creativity? Because if you don't need the ruleset, it strikes me as kind of odd that you'd buy an entire system just for the setting that you'll be half-rewriting anyway. Because there's plenty of novels out there with much better settings available for a lot less cash. Why Numenera of all things if you're going to ignore half of it?

Holy shit, literally who cares.
We have this thread like 5 times a day now and nothing changes because nobody that would be able to change it is listening.
It's like complaining that the animu industry is selling out to otaku and weebs because the main people who buy animu are otaku and weebs.
It's not being sold to you, it's being sold to people who for whatever reason I can't possibly understand think it's a good idea to buy.
Like $60 moe simulators or eroge.

>Numenera
>Nu men era
>New men era

Hot opinions, man.

I'm sure you're getting a big nationlistic boner over laughing at those "caged minds" living outside your tinpot country. It's misplaced conceit though.

What they're saying isn't "you must play RAW 100% and never change the setting". What they're saying is "if it's not in the RAW or the setting but invented by the GM, then the game itself can't take credit for that".

OH, this is numenera, thought it was the pathfinder sci-fi thingie.

>book is a great runway for our imaginations

Yeah but do you got the mind clearance and imagination wings to take off?

Fucking thank you!

>It was broken unplayable shit until The Taken King.
Please elaborate user.

It's a destiny joke. The picture looks like destiny kind of, along with sharing a 3 class sci fi fantasy aesthetic

It's extra meta because Destiny came second.

you gave monte cook money, never a good plan