Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

I'm sorry, but you can only have one VP. Cho'gall is a 2 person party.

Where do you draw the line between "Spirits be with ya mon" and "Stay away from da voodoo"

So which side has the moral high ground, Alliance or Horde?

Just getting into Warcraft.

Cho/Gall 2016 then

No.

Alliance. Horde are nothing but barbarian savages.
Every one of them.

I did play Warcraft 3 a bit out of context, so like...the most I know about is an orc guy fighting nagas and night elves, played a bit of Prince Arthas' story, but I heard that one got turned into a raid.

Huh, the orc guy in Warcraft 3 seemed chill.

Thanks, mang'

Horde. They abandoned their old home to defend Azeroth despite the racist Alliance constantly trying to stab them in the back

Okay, where does the movie fall into this? My friend dragged me to see that.

Just build off of it from there, Warcraft 3, general knowledge, and the movie. I've looked at the wiki but some shit is dense.

>which side has the moral high ground

>gas the forsaken

Would that even bother them?

mfw Genn and Jaina get the Garrosh treatment and we get to raid a rebuilt Gilneas just to destroy it again.

Unholy or frost DK? I can't decide.

the movie is the story of the first RTS heavily altered to accommodate retcons and appeal to people who haven't played the games, it's not very relevant to the lore of the game series

to get a good feel for the general lore, search up Nobbel87 on YouTube and watch some of his videos, he's a lot more comprehensible than the wiki (btw, WoWpedia > WoWwiki)

I prefer Unholy, but both are good.

Okay, thanks. I've mostly been into Starcraft before this, but that one ended...uh...eh...

Already afking with as a dk in invasions in emerald dream

Doesn't even have 250g for flying, walking like a little bitch and dying to trash.

>tfw Genn is completely fucking justified in his hate against the horde
>We'll probably have to kill him anyway

The Tauren are canonically the least terrible people in the game, except for the Grimtotems. Draenei get points, but they're still just "the good ones" Eredar.

Foreigner out of Pandaria! GET OUT! KEEP YOUR DEMONS OUT! BUILD THAT MIST!

Maybe if Genn hadn't bitched out and BUILT WALL back in the day, there wouldn't be Forsaken to fuck him over now.

And pandas user, don't forget about

Wait...did the pandas ever pick a side? The Jack Black race?

frost is supposedly the second worst DPS spec in the game at 110 m8

Pandas are useless furries. Automatically discarded.

They get to pick either.

Da Darkspear Trolls did nothing wrong mon.

I found the movie Orcs to be just like they were in Warcraft 3: noble savages that don't skimp on the savage aspect.
It was actually refreshing to see in contrast to modern WoW's dindu nuffin Orcs.

Hence why they're one of the least bad. They don't do shit, just like the cowmen since Cata

Their super plague would, yeah. I find it funny that the Horde has a NBC/WMD program. Fucking orcs in Flintstone huts are more militarily advanced than the faction with tanks and airplanes.

Trolls always do shit. Just because they don't go OOGA-BOOGA all the time doesn't mean they're not going ready to cook and eat you.

"He turn me into sheep but I use trinket."

I guess i'll go unholy. Melee necromancer is a good shtick. I just like the feeling of frost a bit more. Muh class fantasy and all but that's why I signed up as a DK.

I can see pandaren and tauren being best buddy races, along with tauren and darkspear trolls

>the faction led by a WARchief that had to fight a WAR just to stay on the planet and is almost always out for WAR and has a race known for quick, dirty, dangerous WAR machines and a race known for alchemists who study their own undeath and were created by the plague they reverse-engineered their own from has WMD's and bioweapons

And you're surprised by this?

Troll wiki mentions cannibalism. And loa, which sounds fucking rad.

That's because they know how to make allies
>former civilized Lordaeroners turned autistic
>jews that have a hard on for guns and bombs
>addicts that literally invented magic

Compare that to:
>treehuggers that wants nature and nothing to do with tech or magic
>autists that would build a better bidet than something you can shoot with
>hardworking industrialists that does well at making shit, but bad at inventing

Most of Horde tech comes from Forsaken and goblins, both of which are more than eager to develop stuff that would kill you, intentionally or not

Dalaran going neutral really fucked things up for the Alliance. Too bad they don't have a kingdom of warriors and sailors like Stromgarde or Kul Tiras...

OH WAIT

Don't be silly, we all know the only human kingdom is glorious Stormwind.

I like how even the ruined towers in the Plaguelands and outside the Undercity have a tattered lion flag.

Fucking lazy devs

>Stromgarde
Undead, possibly Forsaken-controlled at this point

>Kul Tiras
If that fucking kindom isn't sunk yet, i'm gonna call bullshit

I like how it's been so long since last we heard anything from Kul Tiras. Maybe they got Naga'd. And the last one of them is gona become a raid boss sooner or later.

Seconded.

It is pretty sad, especially since it'd have been easy to just implement flags bearing Lordaeron's symbol.

go back to /wowg/ you furry

They've barely acknowledged Lordaeron past vanilla, and even then it was in passing about the Forsaken.

It made Stormwind look like a fucking backwards swamp village and it gets nothing. Fuck, the Alliance doesn't even pretend like they're a coalition anymore.

"High King". There needs to be a dungeon where Genn Graymane travels through time from the Second War and beats the shit of his older self for swearing allegiance to a foreign crown.

Right around hakkar worship

Trolls do terrible shit all the time but they own it.

Nagash appears in Azeroth at the start of Wrath of the Lich king and goes to northrend to kill arthas and take his place can he do it?

No

Is it weird that in the broken shore cinematic, I was honestly expecting Genn to mutter "long live the king" and purposely drop Varian off the airship?

It's not wrong to expect good writing, no.

I mean, it would fit

>pussy high king won't get rid of the Horde, already mad
>go to war with demons, we can work with them for now I guess
>they seem to backstab us AGAIN
>high king will probably still forgive them for this
>see he's hanging off the ship
>hm
>kill him myself, use him as a rallying point against the horde and blame them for his tragic sacrifice

Damn I miss Metzen's B&W non-digital art.

Ten Metzen drawings like that per game in the manual and on loading screens should be mandatory.

They would never let the Alliance be unambiguously good. Fucking virtue has to be coming out of their pores.

How do you expect him to draw when he's all hyped on nose candy?

Horde and Alliance are both little shits to each other.

Both factions tend to react badly as one, but in times of peace will branch off and small subfactions will piss off other small subfactions which leads to conflict.

Both are capable of pulling their head out of their asses collectively to get shit done, but almost immediately after some massive asshole fucks things up for everyone and makes everyone mad.

Long story short: Alliance got shit on first by the early Horde, which isn't the fault of anyone currently in the Horde because it was their parents. The Alliance pulled a Treaty of Versailles on the Orcs, but instead of becoming Nazis the Orcs just kind of stole a fleet of ships and fucked off to the new world then made friends with Trolls and Tauren, who were being shit on by non-Alliance races.

Then a bunch of shit third parties did happened. During that, some assholes from the second gen Horde fucked with the Alliance. That hurt their relations, but they got along somewhat neutrally for awhile.

Then in WoW, a lot of shit happened. Some manipulations by third party villains, and some assholes within the faction (mainly Varian Wrynn and Garrosh Hellscream, Alliance and Horde respectively) made everyone in this generation hate each other again. But this time, a lot of people went "fuck this" and joined third party organizations like the Steamwheedle Cartel and the Argent Crusade where they are able to get along with other races.

Currently, it stands like this: more assholes who fuck things up for everyone come from the Horde. But the Alliance is more likely to go to war with literally everyone in the Horde than to work against the assholes specifically. Anytime something new is discovered from an island to an ancient temple, the two also immediately fight over it without hesitation or attempts at diplomacy.

The only moral highground exists for individuals, not the two main factions or the primary six subfactions within them.

I had the thought yesterday: why is nobody doing anything in Alterac? Why hasn't the Alliance tried to reestablish a government there instead of giving their clay to the filthy dwarves?

A mountain bulwark against the Forsaken would be fantastic and solidify the route to Andorhal (how are they getting supplies?). Same with Stromgarde.

What the fuck were they even doing in Kalimdor to begin with. You're telling me the elves can't beat non-Felroid Orcs on their own turf?

Add Gnomes and Draenei.

Also, Worgen I guess. They're basically forgotten and just exist to be Druid questgivers.

Warhammer doesn't work well in crossovers because of how Chaos works, and most things in the setting being so reliant on it.

But...probably not. Nagash is far from unique in consuming magical rocks for power or trying to harness a massive stream of magic. He's about on par with a Dreadlord or a Manuari Eredar.

Well hillsbrad is forsaken land now so rebuilding it is going to be hard when it's nearly entirely surrounded by aggresive forces

I really wish bliz wouldn't keep trying to play both sides as being bad and good. Like, just let the horde be fucking evil man.
Or at the very least if you're gonna keep having people like Garrosh and putrice "betray the horde" and do evil shit or have the forsaken blatantly torturing civilians and using the plague then have some alliance rave do evil shit too.
You can't pretend both sides are morally ambiguous when you only have the one side doing bad stuff

Alliance races* not fucking raves. Dumbass autocorrect

>wanna boost a priest

Should I Veeky Forums?

Can you imagine all the asshurt alliance babbies would field if they did something bad?

>I had the thought yesterday: why is nobody doing anything in Alterac? Why hasn't the Alliance tried to reestablish a government there instead of giving their clay to the filthy dwarves? A mountain bulwark against the Forsaken would be fantastic and solidify the route to Andorhal (how are they getting supplies?).
Alterac was a shitty hole in the wall kingdom, and was by far the least important of the original kingdoms because it has little to offer in terms of resources. It was pretty much dependent on trade routes. So they'd have to entirely supply it.
Even then, its infrastructure is approaching a century of ruin and the Forsaken have already taken the entire surrounding area. Everything in the northern continent is basically Forsaken, minus the Dwarf areas and a tiny bit of Alterac Valley.
> Same with Stromgarde.
Stromgarde is far more contested in-universe than we see in the game. Its basically Mordheim.
>What the fuck were they even doing in Kalimdor to begin with. You're telling me the elves can't beat non-Felroid Orcs on their own turf?
Night Elves got massively debuffed when they sacrificed their immortality to blow up Archimonde.
They went from being basically preserved in amber to a dying race, as per the usual Elf tropes. The Alliance is literally the only thing keeping them going now.

It's been twenty-ish years. Are you trying to tell me they're dropping like flies?

Gray morality was a big part of the draw of WoW, and what fans loved about Warcraft 3.

The problem is that originally, the story was about adventurers having adventures. Starting in BC, the game was about the Horde and Alliance doing things and the adventurers just being soldiers.

The gray morality was supposed to be the adventurers doing really fucked up or really heroic shit. Now, the faction leaders are the main characters and have been since Wrath (it began in BC, but wasn't as blatant).

But I mean goddamn, they have the fucking worgen, that was the perfect time to give the alliance an "evil" race. Have them be treated just like the undead are in the horde: the alliance takes in the worgen to use as front line troops because they're literal bloodthirsty monsters but don't trust them beyond that, meanwhile worgen are having fun ripping horde apart.
But no, they had to go with "oh no, it's a curse, we have to learn to control it"

How was Legacy? I kind of lost interest in the series with all the Cthulu shit.

Why does anyone need an "evil" player race?

If you make the Horde and Alliance teeming with Hitlers now, it'll make playing evil again in Warcraft 4 (it'll happen, maybe next decade) less special.

Also, the Horde and Alliance DID have a shitload of evil characters. We just killed them most of them Wrath and Cata.

Being ten thousand years old will do that to you. It catches up, you know?

At the end of the WC3 campaign all they said was "we will no longer be immortal, our powers over nature will wane in time." To me he didn't sound so scared. That, and there were original Highborne around. It seems like as soon as the world tree choke-slammed Archimode, they would turn to dust immediately.

But on that note, I'm more of an orc guy, and am completely ignorant to WoW elf stuff.

Of course they didn't sound scared, elves can't sound human, emotional, or capable of having a soul even when they're fucked.

>Stromgarde is far more contested in-universe than we see in the game. Its basically Mordheim.

Oh man, this just makes me sad we'll never have a skirmish level strategy game set in the ruins of Stromgarde with several different faction/warband types in a dynamic territory control game...

And now we know they sacrificed it all for nothing.

Nowhere in WoWs story does it say that the Nelfs are a dying race. People need to quit using the "lol elves" as their headcanon and saying it like its fact.

No, he is making shit up user.

I don't really care about the numbers, just what's fun to play.

You will be remembered as the race that sacrificed your immortality for -nothing-.

But seriously, the demon retcon is so hilariously dumb. It was fine when it was just Dreadlords, it make them seem more special and dangerous.

Do you like surrender to memes?

Explains why warlocks always have the same demons.

What, the twisting nether shit?

I'm having trouble thinking of alliance people that were evil on the same level as putrice or Garrosh other than the general that was in charge when turajo got burned and apparently according to the alliance side of the quest that was because his soldiers didn't listen to orders or something? Idk I haven't played an alliance toon in forever

Hm, true.
That + one legion for all timelines.

"GARITHOS!" is a cry I hear alot from alliance saying that they have bad guys.

Sure, but with their commitment to the Wildhammers and rebuilding Andorhal, it makes no sense to leave Alterac unoccupied.

I wouldn't have bothered with the Plaguelands, but they have and now it has to be addressed. If Jania hadn't taken her ball and gone home, they could've replanted Dalaran and really pressed the Forsaken.

I'm sad we never got Azshara Crater.

oh, right. I was thinking more along the lines of in WoW but now that I think about it there was the one elf Druid that was in charge when stormrage was stuck in the dream I guess