My buddies and i want to play d&d. Which version is the best?

4e is a very clear and precise game when it comes to various effects and abilities. Due to its standardized templating and formatting, it doesn't leave much ambiguity. It does have rules and guidelines for improvisation, but they're also quite clearly laid out.

5e, meanwhile, has more loose, narrative descriptions for its spells and abilities, closer to how things were in 3.5/PF, which leaves more up in the air and based on interpretation, which I know some people prefer.

DnD is the go-to tabletop rpg, isnt it?

About as much as Call of Duty is the go-to video game.

Were looking for a game like DnD that we would be able to play over our teamspeak

If you consider Michael Bay's Transformers to be the go-to action movie.

It is

It's often the gateway RPG for a lot of interested new players.

Just keep in mind it's designed to be more of a wargame than many roleplaying games.

Go learn roll20. It has a lot of DnD integration built in.

Though use your own VOIP since's roll20's sucks.

For example?

The range, effect, components, shape, etc. are all clearly defined in 5e for their spells.

How is 4e clearer than that?

Bad comparison. Too easy. It should have been
>If you consider Michael Bay's Transformers to be the go-to movie.
If you name a genre, it's not enough of a sweeping generalization.

Except when it tries to be something else and fails horribly as a consequence.

Ive been hearing about that website, should it be used as just a dice roller or shoukd we design dungeons on it and whatnot

If you mean voice only, you're SOL.
And "like D&D" in what way? Why D&D?

Try Fantasy Craft, it's D&D but not shit.

Correction, it's 3e D&D, but not shit. Like what Pathfinder promised and didn't deliver.

What flavours of dnd are you and your buddies interested in?

Gritty, high fatality, resource management and treasure looting? B/X
Tactical grid combat game? 4th.
Epic fantasy heroes? 5th
Tactical narrative epic fantasy heroes? Dungeon World

If you're going for simplicity, which tends to work better over mic. there's a variety of stripped down d&d clones, inspired games, etc. that fall under the OSR umbrella. Lamentations of the Flame Princess, Swords & Wizardry, and The Black Hack are probably the easiest to pick up and explain to people.

If you speak spanish you should try Aventuras en la Marca del Este, which is based in Basic D&D. It's great for beginners.

If you want to design dungeons, sure. You can just use it for dice but, depending on the system, it also has some pre built character sheets that'll let you set up macros and let the GM keep up with everything more easily.

The tough part is learning the layers and shit for the GM, but it only takes about an hour or two to get most of the basics down.

and this, in a nutshell, is why our hobby has a dnd problem

Just wait until OP and his buddies get completely sick of 5e and try to homebrew it into some Sci Fi setting or something.

It's true, I know plenty of people who like it.

They're all more invested in stats and specific actions/spells than average players, "not a lot" of math to them is cumbersome to the average player.

It's a meme due to the subjectivity of "hardness" of math. But I haven't met those uncomfortable with mental multiplication who are 4e fans, personal exp. Obvii but it holds true in all the arguments I see here.

It measures it in squares

We were thinking mlp actually (^:

I more meant the MMO thing. It's such a stupid comparison that doesn't hold up at all under scrutiny.

Although the math thing kinda confuses me. 3,PF is way more mechanically complex than 4e. 4e is extremely straight forward and does most of the math for you. The only reason things need to get complex is if you're into theoretical optimization, which isn't a key part of the game.

avoid D&D

pick up GURPS, Traveller, Shadowrun, All Flesh Must Be Eaten or anything else

Why avoid dnd?

But 4e does epic fantasy heroes way better than 5e. 5e does gritty adventurerers way better, though.

Because pretty much anything you might want to do with D&D, another system can do better.

My friends and I use TTS

Feat tax is the worst. Twin strike is dumb.

That's all I have to complain about 4e. Everyone should ban to-hit and damage feat bonuses. And twin strike.

>recommending GURPS to a first time
Nigga no that's like recommending Shakespeare to a 13-year-old. You have to grow into it and seek it out when you're ready. It shouldn't be anyone's first system. They'll hate it.

But gurps does nothing well

The games I play in give out a free Expertise feat and Improved Defences, since the system math works better if everyone has them rather than nobody does.

There's already systems for that.

I don't know what that has to do with my post, but I agree.

We found the ways powers work and their uniformity across classes made it feel very gamey and tactical rather than inspirational and heroic. The combat grind/hp of monsters made the entire thing seem like a chore for us. I can see how different groups would go about that differently tho.

The combat grind was a fuckup on 4e's part, but they fixed it with the post MM3 monster math.

People complaining about power uniformity is something I still sorta struggle to wrap my head around though. I've not been playing it long but even trying out a few different classes, the only thing they really have in common is the layout and templating. How things actually work varies just as much, if not more, than similar effects in other editions.

Did you not use the MV and MM3 for monsters? Because they fixed the monster health a while ago.

Personally my group finds 4e more heroic in the way powers and classes work compared to 5e's 'bounded' system.

>Not giving free Expertise and Improved Defences
>Actually taxing your players

I want to punch your DM.

cont. Not that I mean to compare GURPS to Shakespeare, but the system does not do a good job of teaching inexperienced players. This can cause some more impatient/new players get in a huff. Like these poor fellas: .

So if you want Dungeon Fantasy, then go play something structured: D&D5E or Dungeon World.

>the only thing they really have in common is the layout and templating.
Aye, there's the rub.
Most people who bring up that complaint come from 3.PF afaict, where variety is often created by presenting the same effect differently. When 4e subsequently presents varied effects in a uniform way, they can't get past the presentation.

...

We played for 6 sessions before looking at alternatives. It just wasn't for us. The powers and templates reminded us too much of esports, the grid was already a thing we didn't like about 3pf. I have heard they fixed monster hp later, but we'd already moved on by then. I can see how the powers/day/encounter can be narrated as unique heroic moments, but the mechanics didn't mesh well with us.

We're mixed on 5th. Probably going to switch back to OSR homebrew.

5e starter set is cheap AF

And that's fine, I'm not arguing that 4e is the one universal system that all people must love, I'm just saying that they fixed the monster health a while ago.

The power format is entirely
>Opinions
anyway, no point in arguing about that.

Don't be a fag, play DCC (Dungeon Crawl Classics).

5e. Just do that and then make me a promise to try other systems later on.

Well like, if you look at Asheron's Call melee is just how fast you're swinging, there's one "basic attack."

There is also one "basic attack" in d&d, with occasional feats\extras.

4e takes the WoW approach and gives you all sorts of extra buttons to push which boil down to attacking but add greater nuance to combat, particularly for martial classes (all 4e players I've seen forced to play other additions go for the most exotic spell caster avail, personal experience though).

So, while mathematically many things were shit in 3.pf the average player would pave over\ignore\calculate once and be done. With 4e, whilst it was streamlines and logical about what it was doing, it was DOING a whole lotta "video game-y" stuff--there was a sense that you were reading entries in a database. Efficient, really, but also alienating to the tradition.

4e was a good game, but it wasn't a D&D game--I say this as a DM who recently ditched Stars Without Number and is converting Only War to a custom universe just cause AC and HP bothered me so much. I hate d&d, but 4e has an appeal to different kinds of players than any of the other editions--and they are clearly satisfied with it, many still play.

If it's your thing it's your thing, I guess, like me with d100 Warhammer systems. I guess that's the take away for OP--find your thing.

>no one has done the gurps meme yet
GURPS

uh

Got any pdf links?!

Use the catalog?!

I dont browse Veeky Forums, thanks!

5e or Swords and Wizardry (Swords and Wizardry is a clone of OD&D, with the rules clarified and reorganized).

GURPS' been my first system, m8. I love it.

Also I'm pretty sure 13 year old teens get to read Shakespeare at school.