/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

...

^ Discuss, since it kinda got lost at the end of the last thread, I'm interested in other opinions on this.

I thought I heard that the standard board size for DFC will likely be 4x6.

It's been confirmed to be stated as 4'x4' even in the actual rulebook. Whether or not tournaments will use this size may change. But I think for the sake of a better game it needs a larger board.

Have you actually played, yet? Or is this just based on a reading of the rules?

It's just based on reading, so I could be totally off. But doesn't it strike anyone else as wrong that there's a "major spike" mechanic in this game which doesn't even matter in many cases because most of the time a minor spike is enough to put any ship near the middle of the board in range of every single thing that could fire on it?

Drillah Dame is mah Digguh

The thing you have to realize, though, is that not everything will be crammed around the center of the table; clusters will be spread out around it.

In any case, let's just use the UCM baseline real quick.
Scan of 6, signature of 6 for a cruiser; assuming UCM vs UCM, that's a 12 inch range, going up to two feet with a major spike.

I don't know about you, but that's pretty much the point of the spikes system; you really have to decide if you want to take that spike or not, as doing so really will light your ships up massively.

I don't think the game should be balanced around every ship going full thrust, or weapons free, or whatever, every single turn; they should have a very real tradeoff of exposion your ships to a huge amount of potential enemies.

That being said, your concerns are really only applicable if you take a major spike in the dead center of the table; just maneuvering closer to the sides would drastically reduce the number of ships that can get at you.

If I remember correctly, Weapons Free and Full Thrust are the only sources of a major spike, right? Maybe it's there to keep wide flankers from pounding your objective-takers with relative impunity.

I also get the feeling DFC is not supposed to play like X-Wing - in that being shot at doesn't necessarily mean you've make a game-ending mistake.

>I also get the feeling DFC is not supposed to play like X-Wing - in that being shot at doesn't necessarily mean you've make a game-ending mistake.
This as well; pretty much all your ships except for your frigates are capable of taking a limited pounding, even before being crippled.

Your cruisers and battleships are only going to drop if they're being focused, or if you're on the wrong end of a super-heavy laser or particle lance triad.

It's actually weapons free and active scan, but the original point I was making was that major spikes DONT MATTER because even just a minor spike is enough to open you up to fire from everything that would be within range in a normal game.

However, you may be very correct on that second point, maybe I'm overthinking the amount by which you're supposed to try and avoid getting shot.

>because even just a minor spike is enough to open you up to fire from everything that would be within range in a normal game.
In the worst case scenario, that being you in the dead center of the table.

Thing is the movement mechanics and objective based gameplay kind of force all ships to tend towards that center clusterfuck. You have very limited turning (unless you use a course change maneuver and spike yourself) and mandatory minimum movement, and if you fly off the board edge you're destroyed, plus there are very few weapons which can shoot in the rear arc. So, all ships are going to have to aim to maneuver towards the middle to avoid flying out of engagement arc/off the board/too far from objectives. I've seen the beta games on youtube, when it's a decent number of ships it's always a clusterfuck in the center, it's just unavoidable.

Maybe different tactics can be employed, or a different set-up of objective markers (they were very well spread out in these games but the major one was always in the center) or something. Or maybe the alternate activation rules will mitigate the amount of damage you open yourself up to when you spike. It just seems concerning to me that there is such a small table size suggested for a game which seems to assume you have maneuvering room.

I think there is a ton of mitigating factors. Minor spikes wouldnt really matter to shaltari and scourge have a bunch of stealth and cloaked ships to deal with some of that pressure. UCM and PHR can tank with those 3+ saves, frigates can chill in atmos for those +6 to hit rolls.

Now I am not saying your concerns are unfounded as the math just checks out so easily. Hell, Battletech is best played on multiple mapsheets so bigger arenas arent an issue to me. I cant comment on tournament play as I dont care for that jazz.

>maneuvering and turning
Good point, BUT, remember that pretty much all ships except maybe the Shaltari) have a thrust value of 10 or 8 inches; that means you can move a minimum of 5 or 4 inches a turn, unless you use station keeping or full thrust.

Keeping at the slowest speed and turning as much as you can, it'd take you 10 to 12 turns to cross the board from edge to edge; ships don't have to move as fast as you think they do.

We'll just have to see how the gameplay actually works when it ships, but I think it's be fine. If anything, just bump up to a 5 by 5 board for 1500+, and a 6 by 6 for 2500+

...

>If anything, just bump up to a 5 by 5 board for 1500+, and a 6 by 6 for 2500+
Yeah this might actually be all it needs.

Hmm- in the last thread, it was mentioned that the PHR heavy broadsides were still the secondary wweapons for those ship classes, for reliable plinking away on standard orders- in that case, what're the primary weapons?

On the battleships, either a Dark Matter Cannon or a Neutron Missile CAW.

Torpedoes, dark matter cannons, and neutron missiles

DROP SOON YOU APES, UCM, UCM UCM!
youtube.com/watch?v=CIGHCoVzqtk

I suspect battleship broadsides will have a worse lock value than cruiser broadsides, just because the sheer number of them is crazy.

No, it's the same exact gun and the same exact lock value. The battleship sized batteries get 6 shots instead of the usual 2.

How many batteries are on a battleship?

Has she just shot it in the back with her disembodied hand?

Fucking sirens, man.

I'm assuming one on each side, but it could easily be 2 to a side.

We sure could clear up a lot of these questions if someone would POST THE LATEST BETA RULES

Those are all out of date by several months now, anyway. A few more days and we should have scans of the official rulebook.

They're no more out of date than anything anyone is saying

What's the best looking UCM ship and why is it the Moscow?

I want a battle line of just like three of these fuckers that'll advance across the map on weapons free and blow everything to hell.

It's definitely the New Orleans

Moscow is a bloated monstrosity

They are, because some of the information cycling around now comes from the hawk forums, recent-ish interviews, demo games done at the events within the past week, etc.

Moscow is pretty sexy, but something about the seattle just does it for me.

New Orleans is objectively among the worst looking UCM ships, right next to the St Petersburg.

Gunships a cute.

Everyone has access to those though. The one piece that keeps coming up which not everyone has access to is the beta rules.

...

I feel you.

I'm planning to make a Seattle, a Berlin, and a Moscow out of my first three cruiser sprues (which incidentally are the example ships they use on the picture of the starter set).

Not sure what I want for frigates though. A couple New Orleans are obviously a must but I haven't decided between Toulons or Taipeis for the other two.

C'mon, user, you gotta use the right pic for that.

>tfw no fully bug faction to do a Starship Troopers campaign with.

I think I read somewhere that the Moscow a rare ship, so running 3 may not be an option (except for friendlies, of course)

Probably because it combines that sweet Mass Effect vibe with the awesome aliens theme.

>that filename

You may want to look a little closer at that image, user.

So is the Panther complete bullshit like everyone thinks it is?

Has anyone faced against it yet?

>"Hello user," squeaks Dave in his comedy voice, "I want to hear your ideas for what I could do with each faction's dreadnoughts. I don't want to just make them bigger with more hullpoints and more shots from their weapons, I want each to be different somehow."

>"Oh, and tell that plonker to stop writing porn about my games. Gaw blimey, what a carry-on." he adds.

So, what would you do to make a dreadnought for each faction which is more interesting than just being a big shitkicker of a ship with All The Guns?

Here's what I'd do:

>UCM
Burn-through lasers on turrets. Because a dreadnought might actually be big enough to have turrets (yes, plural, one above and one below) the length of a BTL. Special rule: if you cripple or destroy a ship with a BTL turret, you can slew it onto another target within 6", rolling as many dice as were still hitting the last target.

>Scourge
Two words: Stealth. Battleship. On the basis that the difference between a scourge cruiser and heavy cruiser is stealth (and a few more guns), so the difference between a scourge battleship and "heavy battleship" can also be stealth. So, stealth motherfucking battleship.

>PHR
Burn-through laser broadsides. A bit close to the UCM one, admittedly. But it works - as the UCM's thing is turrets, the PHR's thing is broadsides. And again, the ship may actually be broad enough to fit them in (needs to be at least as wide as the BTL frigate they have).

>Shaltari
This is tricky, most of their ships are about directing firepower forwards, so it's hard not to just do a bigger Diamond battleship with even more particle lances. So, just to be silly, let's say that the shaltari's grasp of antigrav tech is so amazing, they're the only faction that can put a battleship-sized vessel into atmosphere. Their dreadnought is purpose-built to do this with xbawkshueg versions of the antigrav fins their DZC units use. Fairly ridiculous I know, but like I say, I struggled with this one.

What ideas do y'all have?

>UCM

That Reinforced Armour rule that means you need to roll 3 or more on lock-on to crit them that currently isn't being used but was in the beta ruleset.
Give it another 6 dice heavy railgun weapon system on the top and a second BTL on top of the first. Otherwise keep it the same as the Bei-Jing.
Effectively, make it a Heavy Cruiser to the Battleships cruiser.
Oh, and maybe some hangars in the dorsal bays like the Atlantis.

>Scourge
Still pulling stuff from the unused rules: Give it the Beast one. Maybe give it Mauler CAW's?
So, you cripple it, and it gets a -1 to all lock-on rolls. Which I think means 3+'s now hit on a 2? But it cripples itself at the end of every turn.
If it get's close though it's CAW's work like BTL's. So give it 2D6+2 of them and watch them murder everything once it goes beserk.
Effectively, whereas the other ships should be more about surviving heavy fire, the Scourge one should be less survivable but a LOT more dangerous. So multiple 3 dice Oculus Arrays and maybe a trio of furnace cannons and Torpedoes.

>PHR
White Nanomachine shennanigans give it the Regen rule. Swarmer CAW's mean you need double the hits to stop any CA hits and finally 4 bank medium broadsides all with Fusilade +4 for 32 shot weapons free broadsides.
Get stuck in, go weapons free. Regret nothing.

>Shaltari
Built around a gigantic distortion weapon, maybe make it armour 4+? No PD's, minimal CAW as usual. It's basically a flying deathstar laser.

>UCM
They've mentioned that dreadnought's aren't longer, but are bulkier. As such, I imagine its a giant break in a V shape with guns on both its top and bottom. Potentially has access to larger mass drivers across its nose.
>scourge
Scourge overwhelmed the EAA in their attack, in space and on the ground. As such it'd be interesting if scourge dreadnoughts have a massive dropship hangar, as well as plenty of oculus arrays and some bombardment weaponry.
>PHR
Giant space cube that rotates to broadside everything
>Shaltari
It'd be interesting if Shaltari dreadnoughts broke the mold and were reminescent of shaltari frigates. Large, circular, mostly open space except for a massive gem in the center. Lots of disentegrators and a single laser the center crystal generates that makes particle cannons look like pea shooters.

>PHR broadside cube
That's fucking glorious.

the white sphere can't decide if its jealous or turned on.

Hawk desing

>>"Oh, and tell that plonker to stop writing porn about my games. Gaw blimey, what a carry-on." he adds.
Top jej

>UCM
Take the Beijing's big upper arc, right? Now take four of them, arrange them like a cross in a manner similar to a UCM cruiser, and add wings.
On each side arc, 2 heavy railguns on top, 2 on the bottom, for a total of 8; along with medium mass driver turrets along the flanks and voidcraft hangers. No burnthrough lasers, but rather, the arcs actually function as a gigantic magnetic accelerator that shoots mass-driver rounds half the size of a torpedo.

>Scourge
Make it an absolute beast with CAW weapons, in that it has several profiles of them, but limited ranged weaponry. In addition, it should have a massive troop hangar, on par with motherships, so that it can clear out enemy ships in orbit, and then contest the ground.

>PHR
In the same vein as the Platinum, make it a super-carrier, but with respectable broadsides nonetheless as well as powerful prow weaponry.

>Shaltari
Death Star

Its always nice to agree with other anons and revel in great taste.

UCM
Heavy Carrier that also has a super powered burn through laser, like the Midway from Wing Commander

Scourge
Mothership style ship that spawns corvettes and fighters

PHR
A massive ship with tons of guns and multiple torpedoes, has PHR shield prototypes. Has a nano machine hive to repair friendlies.

Shaltari
A massive void gate ship that works as an orbital bombarder/troop deployer while also being as CAW ship. Has an active shield that does not require an order (like double save 5+ shield, 4+ armor)

Pornz: A romantic comedy where Chad Cyberdong tries to date the stern but vulnerable Cato

PHR Dreadnought

Torpedo broadsides, carrier capability, if it hovers over one of your cities it's doomed - bombardment of epic proportions and troop drop ships - nano and cyber wizardry to heal itself and screw other ships

UCM London Dreadnought

Rail launches mine fields across the board

>UCM
More guns, some with 2+ lock
>PHR
Unlimited torpedos (1 per turn), long range OB from high orbit
>Scourge
A decent scan value, partial cloak, and stealth. Make them come to you (and your friends)
>Shaltari
Some sort of gravity fuckery

>Minefields in space
That would take *way* too many mines to actually work.

>torpedo broadsides
Jesus Christ

>Unlimited torpedoes
JESUS CHRIST

Oh shit son, phase 2 just came in.

I'll try to get scans later today.

>>Unlimited torpedoes
>JESUS CHRIST
Calm down, the game only lasts a few turns, and torpedos are less valuable in the late game anyway.

They could work if you think outside the box- each "mine" isn't a mine per se but a single shot weapon / missile launcher attached to a load of passive sensor arrays. Upon detection of a ship in the vicinity, it will fire at it, and it should be harder to dodge as it should be coming from much closer in than ship to ship fire / at a different angle due to the mines themselves being hard to detect what with them just being passive sensors rather than anything actuve

Thank you ScanAnon. You are far superior to LameExcusesAnon who got his last week.

Perfect, now my PD can engage the missile during the boost phase.

In space that's what mines should be; short-burn missiles.

Give 'em a gravatic launcher too, I guess.

Why even have a launcher though? And why wait? You could just shoot missiles at the target.

>And why wait?
...so that the target enters range?

Scourge dreadnought only has CAW, beastly ones at that, and two long range cannons. Slap on the best armor in the game, give it a slow creeping speed and done.

These cannons do not do damage, but they cause enemy ships impacted by them to travel slower; friendlies struck by the blast get a speed boost - effect lasts for several turns, can be accumulative

each cannon has F & single side, close action weapons fired all around it

Class name: Kraken

So what are the basic mechanics of DFC?

Couple uses- area denial by seeding areas of space with them if it's an area you're wanting to defend- you could just passively set them in that case, or using them to fuck up areas where you're predicting a ship will be- you'd want a launcher for that.

Think about it- you're fighting another ship, you fire a load of mines out along the direction of their predicted path, while you're also firing at them properly so they don't see the mines coming. It's the equivalent of being in a knife fight with someone, and then shanking them with a second knife they didnt know you had

You're in space. The missile can go as far as you want.

alternative idea is to have the cannons be launched assets that once successfully hit, snares the target and pulls it D6 + 2 closer to the Kraken, raising or lowering it's layer to match.

this would make it more thematic, but I'm not sure if that totally neuters the effectiveness

would be cool to pull your own ships out of harms way though -- tactical retreat!

The point of the mines is that they will be a lot closer to the target when they launch than shots fired from a second ship, so they'll be a lot harder to intercept or evade.especially as they'll often be coming in from a different angle than direct shots from a second ship would be coming

Not accurately, and the further away they're coming from, the more time they'll have to swat them.

You are a gentlemen and a scholar.

On the subject of Mines, you have to think of it this way...

Sure you've launched the cosmic equivalent of a beartrap into space, yes your enemy can see them and they can just go around

But that's what makes them effective even if they don't hurt anything -- the threat alone controls the flow of battle and makes your enemy think "is it better to risk the damage and follow through with my plans? Or do I have to completely rethink my stratgey now?"

Also I suggest you make mines deal no damage outright but cause a roll on the crippling table; much more thematic

It won't be though, because you can shoot the launcher (Not that you would actually need a launcher for a missile, as it could just float there until needed)

>Not accurately
Doesn't need to be accurate. That's what sensors and terminal guidance are for.

>Doesn't need to be accurate.

I think the creative use of launched asset here makes the concept appealing to me. They're connected by tendrils of energy, but the 'torpedo' could be in the shape of a squid's feeding club

How do we contact Dave to make suggestions? Do you think he'd listen?

The point of the mines iin this case is that they are small, and do nothing until the *passive* sensors detect a target- they'd be designed to have as little signature as possible to actually detect them by. Cant shoot down what you cant see

That's what it looks like.

Over-the-horizon anti aircraft missiles can be fired along a programmed trajectory, then at a designated time or location find targets on their own and engage them. You don't even have to be sure the target aircraft is there when you shoot it.

>that gun

lel, I love when artists can't think up their own assets

>FREEDOM to draw whatever you want
>draw someone else's thing

Hate to say it, but the design of these guns on the valkyries isn't helping disprove the seraphim comparison.

You still have to get within a few hundred miles of your desired target tho.

Or else the final burn is going to be longer than the initial one.

Eh, if there's anything I'm going to cut slack for its gonna be the handheld weapons in a wargame with this scale. Hell, the UCM rifles look really similar to Halo assault rifles. Its just such a small detail it feels silly to worry about it, considering its only going to pop up in artwork most of the time. If we ever get a heroic scale wargame I'll get concerned though.

Since GW has basically squatted Sisters I don't see the point in anyone being butt hurt.

Thing is, Dave seems strongly against covering tables in ordinance and whatnot. It's why fighters, bombers and torpedoes in dropfleet aren't moving around the battlefield (battlespace?) like they do in BFG, say, they're tokens you place next to their targets and resolve the effects from there. Kind of can't see them putting minefields in with that philosophy.

I'm with you there, you really can't tell on the models themselves. It's just something I found kind of funny.

Not butthurt, just amused the artist has been a bit of a cheeki breeki.

I didn't mean you were being butt hurt, I mean any of the dingus sue happy assholes at GW.

If anything I would look at it as a fun tribute.

Ah, right, my bad.

No worries Bruh, have a brew on me and lets go talk to some sirens.

He kind of built himself into a corner with how streamlined everything is, if you think about it.

Mines and other deployables are not at all difficult to keep track of in games like X-Wing (skirmish level I know, but still)

to make a case for Mine specifically, they don't move -- they just appear and then blow up occasionally. Fighter craft on the other hand have to be tracked as their location isn't fixed, so his solution to that was fine I guess.

Without asteroids being a factor in the game, it makes things feel a bit too open. Being able to restrict certain shipping lanes is a key naval element.

Apart from mines, there could be launchable satelites - providing ECM or serving as target painters -- things like this will add a layer of strategic depth without making the board too hard to read.

Just my two cents anyways.