Emperor of Mankind stats

2+,2++ save might be a bit overpowered? Can someone run the math on that to see what the hit to wound ratio is?

Adding to this, if the Emperor dies the opponent immediately gains d6+3 Victory Points, maybe?

>overpowered
>when Perturabo's rules exist

Yeah, I was looking over it again and would consider dropping his Toughness to 7, giving him 2+/3++ and keeping the FnP 3+. Since he's got IWND, W10 and Eternal Warrior he's still pretty much the most durable thing on the board that's not a Titan.

its powerful but makes sense lorewise that only certain weapon can actually get to him

its only one difference but i guess 2+/3++ is better

The burning blade-s+2 AP2 Armourbane, Instant Death, Rampage
Forces succesful invuln saves to be rerolled
Emperor's Talon-S:user AP2 Shred Force
Inflicts 1d3+1 wounds for each wound dealt
Auric Armour
2+2++, immune to poison/fleshbane/etc, cannot be wounded on better than a 4+, can choose to reroll D table
Emperor of the Galaxy-Harnesses WC on 2+, 3+ invuln against any perils result, can reroll anything on the perils table
Divine Retribution-WC5
Basically the Ululator's sonic attack damage chart, can be auto-fired by spending 10 WC with no risk of perils

Agreed, also he should grant a debuff to his enemies don't you think? Maybe fear and pinning or something?

if we go with 3 or 4 for the invulnerable would it be too much to add in feel no pain?

His weapons should have concussion and shred rules, he should also have hatred/preferred enemy (Chaos)

holy shit son, calm down a bit

Without stackable saves he's nowhere as durable as it looks on paper. T7 with 10 Wounds isn't as difficult to take down with massed fire as you'd expect and the opponent is going to focus him down in Apocalypse games.

Maybe feel no pain on 6+?

For 2k points he better be the toughness equivalent of a fucking Warlord

>The filthy twist has two Left hands

I wonder if that grants ambidexterity

Should he have any special rules for challenges/reserve rolls?

+1 attack and can fire/use both weapons at the same time

I think that would be going too far down "fluff to crunch," territory, at which point we could argue why Astartes don't have Night Vision and Terminators don't have Auspexes.

Keep him as a monsterunit with an army-wide Ld/Stubborn/ATSKNF buff and Psy Level 6, otherwise it just looks like we're spamming shit for no reason like Emperor fanboys.

>what is massfire
He won't be able to survive a turn of being focused on.

Emps should have rending and soul blaze

The majority of that was his own reluctance though as is the case he one shots Horace after all is said and done.

How about this for a rule?

Ollanius' sacrifice: all Look out Sirs on the Emperor Pass on a 3+

Re-doing this now that we've conversed a bit and the initial "ohmigod Emperor," rush has gone.

Emperor of Mankind - Lord of War - ???pts
>Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
WS8, BS7, S7, T7, W8, I7, A4, Ld10, Sv2+
>Wargear
Burning Blade (S+1, AP2, Master-Crafted, Force, Soulblaze)
Emperor's Talon (SUser, AP3, Master-Crafted, Shred, Force, Soulblaze)
Auric Armour (2+/3++)
>Special Rules
Primarch
Extremely Bulky
Feel No Pain (3+)
Emperor of Mankind (Imperial units on the table gain +1 Ld, the Stubborn and ATSKNF special rules)
Alpha Psyker (Manifests on 3+, gains an additional +1 to Deny, may make Deny tests for any friendly unit within 12")

so the emperor is, in the end, a bitch?

>heresy i know

Nice , very nice

see, barring the native FNP, thats barely better than pre-chaos Horus

>the Emperor's greatest personal defense is the quantum cloud of Guardsman surrounding him

Oh, forgot the Psy Mastery Level 6, which puts him a fair deal above in terms of overall ability, but yeah, I'm not sure how to improve it without really making it look like wank.

I'd personally give the Burning Blade or the Emperor's Talons the concussion or Strikedown special rule, but other than that , I am happy with this, I would give this a 700-800 points price

Could you imagine The Emperor and the Primarch models going up against a 4000 point game of tyranids

Its the friggin emperor of mankind, make him worth 1250 and give him the stats to break anggrath and auto'res'kais over seperate knees at the same time. Nothing bar warp gods or a complete C'tan can consider scratching him

What is the Primarch rule again?

I would, but we know that TT doesn't accurately translate to lore, some kitted out Chapter Masters can actually beat the Primarchs. I'm going for something that would work statwise while keeping with the feel and theme.

Eternal Warrior, Adamantium Will, Fear, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion, Precision Shots/Strikes.

Fear, fearless, fleet, MotL, IWND, adamantium will and eternal warrior

Is 4 attacks enough? Angron gets up to 10

Emperor isn't a close combat monster nor is he ever really explained as much. His main power comes through his psykerpowers. He's got A5 from his wargear, anyhow.

Barring the bullshit that is RAW smashfucker prime with his rerollable 2++, primarchs generally wipe the floor with everything. Hell, your emperor would have trouble against a Leviathan dread with AV13 and 4++

He doesn't need to be overly cheese guys, he still got his ass handed to him by Horus, he should be an elite model that is slightly better than the primarchs model, he should focus on buffing his army and being an awesome psyker

Non of this "fuck it, strength D for the emperor shit"

If we gave him the ability to choose his psychic powers from any discipline Imperials can take he'd be able to really buff himself up to deal with anything, which is how he's explained to be so powerful in fluff anyway.

This thread would be fun with the Chaos God's

Should he get demonology and divination as well?

make him top tier primarch with one or two extra special rules

particularly army buffing things, that was his greatest strength in my opinion
rather than being able to hand anyones ass to them on a silver platter 1v1

Sanctic, yes, Divination? Maybe. We're not entirely sure how good he is at it nor if Tzeentch is fucking with him or whatever. I'd say yes, but only because the powers in the Divination Discipline are short-term flashes of insight over long-term scrying.

Agreed, he should be an 800 points model MAX

well how powerful would the manifestation of each god be, i am assuming the god has to take a kid of avatar form here

theyre virtually unkillable but they arnt omnipotent either
not completely at least

He could be a really strong character with a psyker master level 6, if he casts iron arm along with warp speed he could be a real monster

Exactly, so:

With a rule that allows him to pick and choose freely between all five core Disciplines, Sanctic and all the Astartes Disciplines.

Well for starters, Khorne should have Hatred, Rage, Rampage, Preferred Enemy, Soul Blaze and his sword should be strength D

slannesh should have Initiative 10 with fear on a -3Ld

Nurgle should have poison 2+, IWND 4+, FNP 3+

Tzeench should just mind fuck everyone...

are we even going to speculate about chaos undivided

my head hurts just thinking about the idea

I did this a while ago:
The Emperor is taken as a LoW and a HQ choice in any Loyalist 30K army, but he does not fill a compulsory HQ.
Points WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
???(?) 10 10 7 7 7 8 7 10 1+ 3++
Infantry (Character)
1 (Unique)
Wargear
The Plate Invictus: This Armour provides The Emperor with a 1+ Armour Save (note that a rolled 1 is still a failure) and a 3+ invulnerable save, no attack can wound The Emperor on anything better than a 3+.regardless of any special rules it has.
The Burning Blade +3 2 Melee Master-crafted Soulblaze Blind Specialist weapon Force
The Eagle Claw User 2 Melee Master-crafted Shred Rending Specialist weapon Force
Special Rules
Adamantium Will
Aeons of Experience: The Emperor IS your warlord, no if or buts. He picks three Warlord traits
Anathema: All units with the Daemon special rule must take leadership check when within 18" of the Emperor at the start of every game turn and take a wound with no saves or FNP rolls of any kind allowed by every point failed.
Counter Attack
Crusader
Eternal Warrior
Extremely Bulky
Fearless
Feel No Pain
Fleet
Furious Charge
Grandsire of the Space Marines: All Models with Legiones Astartes special rule in an army containing the Emperor have the And They Shall Know No fear special rule
Hatred: (Xenos, Traitor Faction)
Independent Character
It Will Not Die
Precision Shot
Precision Strike
Preferred enemy: (Everyone)
Pride: The Emperor can not cast the Invisibility psychic power, and must always accept and issue challenges, this take precedence over any other special rule
Psyker: (Mastery level 6) (The Emperor harnesses warp charges on a 2+ and knows all rulebook powers apart from Malefic Daemonology in addition, he is considered to be a Grey Knight for the purposes of casting Santic Deamonology.
Rage
Rampage
Sire of the Primarchs: If taken in a Space Marine Legion detachment, The Emperor is considered to have the Corresponding Sire of the X special rule
Strikedown

Now that I think about it, he probably wants weapon mastery too.

oh lawdy

whats his points value on that beast?

I still think stating the Emperor is bullshit. This guy took a whooping from Horus only because he was still hoping he could be saved, and when he realised it was hopeless he blew him out of existence just like that.

So, check out Horus' stats and rules. We would need something that would instakill Horus in one attck/round while being heavily beaten, ie on reduced attack capability.

Emperor is beyound stating, period.

how did he beat horus again?
was it sheer force or did he just open up a warp portal and kick him in

After realizing that Horus was beyond redemption, he destroyed his soul, presumably instantly. Their whole fight (and Empy's mortal wound) only took place because he was trying to save Horus.

ok so we need to define this instakill ability
who could he do it on, just primarchs that he made from his own DNA possibly

what were the limits on distance
can he do it more than once
if so whats the cooldown
did it take all of his life energy to do so, considering he died shortly afterwards anyway

>ok so we need to define this instakill ability
Vortex of doom power.
I don't know, what do you think?

He oneshots him thanks to the chink in Horus' armor made by Sanguinius, and thanks to the burning rage big E feels upon seeing a son die, AND thanks to Horus feeling remorse for the murder.
tl;dr - not as simple as you make it sound

Big E ain't THAT good, brother - remember Horus saved his ass from an ork, and got made Warmaster because of it. Very important and often overlooked plotpoint.

The dude was about to get murdered by a dreadnaught sized ork on Gorro, straight strength wins over all. He may be big and psychic, but it was proven he is mortal.

No, it's not a god - Malal, on the other hand.....

A thousand or more greenskins roared to see several hundred armoured warriors appear without warning in the midst of the wide chamber. Every ork was encased in rusted plates of hissing iron, strapped and bolted to their swollen bodies. Horus’s suspicion of a ruling tech class was all but confirmed at the sight of the wheezing pneumatics, cracking power generators and hissing, lightning-edged weapons.

‘At them!’ bellowed the Emperor.

Much to Horus’s chagrin, the Custodians moved first, bracing their spears and letting fly with an explosive volley of mass-reactives from their guardian spears. The Justaerin opened fire a heartbeat later and the ork line bloomed with fiery detonations.

Then the Emperor was amongst them.

His sword was a bluesteel shimmer, too fast to follow with the naked eye. He moved through the orks without seeming to move at all, simply existing at one point to kill before appearing elsewhere to reap greenskin lives by the score. Each blow struck with the force of an artillery impact, and shattered bodies flew from his sword as though hurled aside by a bomb blast.

Nor was his sword the Emperor’s only weapon.

His outstretched gauntlet blazed with white-gold fire, and whatever the flames touched disappeared in explosions of red cinders and ash. He battered orks to bonelessness with bludgeoning blows, he crushed them with invisible coils of force and he repelled their gunfire with thoughts that turned their rounds to smoke.

They came at him in their hundreds, like iron filings to the most powerful magnet, knowing they would never find another foe so deserving of their rage. The Emperor killed them all, unstoppable in his purity of purpose.

A crusade of billions distilled in one numinous being.

Horus had fought alongside the Emperor for well over a century, but the sight of his father in battle still had the power to awe him. This was war perfected. Fulgrim could live a thousand lifetimes and never achieve anything so wondrous.

He just had to get in that jab at Fulgrim at the end. Why is Horus such a dick?

At one point in the story Horus inwardly compares him to a god in utter awe.

Comparing Fulgrim is probably a compliment.

Ok, so then - in the book you are quoting, how does Big E get gibbed by an ork so that Horus must save him? Or has that been - ugh - retfuckingconned?

Horus’s sword was broken, his twin bolters empty of shells. The sword had snapped halfway along its length, the edge dulled from hewing countless greenskin bodies. He’d fought his way onto a stepped bridge, killing scores of monstrously swollen orks to reach a crumbling ledge just below the Emperor.

Blood drenched him, his own and that of the orks.

His helmet was long gone, torn away in a grappling, gouging duel with an iron-tusked giant with motorised crusher claws for arms and a fire-belching maw. He’d broken the beast over his knee and hurled its corpse from the bridge. Rogue gravity vortices hurled it up and away.

More of the greenskins followed him onto the bridge, grunting and laughing as they stalked him. Their grim amusement was a mystery to Horus. They were going to die, whether he killed them or they were burned to ash by the colossal plasma reactor’s inevitable destruction.

Who would laugh in the face of their death?

The Emperor fought an armoured giant twice his height and breadth. Its skull was a vast, iron-helmed boulder with elephantine tusks and chisel-like teeth that gleamed dully. Its eyes were coal-red slits of such vicious intelligence that it stole Horus’s breath.

Horus had never seen its equal. No bestiary would include its description for fear of being ridiculed, no magos of the Mechanicum would accept such a specimen could exist.

Six clanking, mechanised limbs bolted through its flesh bore grinding, crackling, sawing, snapping, flame-belching weapons of murder. The Emperor’s armour was burning, the golden wreath now ashes around his neck.

Chugging rotor cannons battered the Emperor’s armour even as claws of lightning tore portions of it away. It was taking every screed of the Emperor’s warrior skill and psychic might to keep the mech-warlord’s weaponry from killing him.

‘Father!’ shouted Horus.

The greenskin turned and saw Horus. It saw the desperation in his face and laughed. A fist like a Reductor siege hammer smashed the Emperor’s sword aside and a fist of green flesh lifted him into the air. It crushed the life from him with its inhuman power.

‘No!’ yelled Horus, battering his way through the last of the greenskins to reach his father’s side. The Mech-Warlord turned his spinal weapons on Horus, and a blistering series of lightning strikes hammered the walkway.

Horus dodged them all, a wolf on the hunt amid the ash and fire of the world’s ending. He had no weapon, and where that wasn’t normally a handicap to a warrior of the Legions, against this foe it was a definite disadvantage.

No weapon of his would hurt this beast anyway.

But one of its own…

Horus gripped one of the warlord’s mechanised arms, one bearing the spinning brass spheres and crackling tines of its lightning weapon. The arm’s strength was prodigious, but centimetre by centimetre Horus forced it around.

Lightning blasted from the weapon, burning Horus’s hands black. Bone gleamed through the ruin of his flesh, but what was that pain when set against the loss of a father?

With one last herculean effort, Horus wrenched the arm up as a sawing blast of white-edged lightning erupted from the weapon. A searing burst of fire impacted on the Mech-Warlord’s forearm and the limb exploded from the elbow down in a welter of blackened bone and boiling blood. The beast grunted in surprise, dropping the Emperor and staring in dumb fascination at the ruin of its arm.

Seizing the chance he had been given, the Emperor bent low and surged upwards with his bluesteel sword extended. The tip ripped into the Mech-Warlord’s belly and burst from its back in a shower of sparks.

‘Now you die,’ said the Emperor, and ripped his blade up.

It was an awful, agonising, mortal wound. Electrical fire vented from hideous metal organs within the wreckage of the greenskin’s body. It was a murderous wound that not even a beast of such unimaginable proportions could take and live.

Yet that was not the worst of it.

Horus felt the build up of colossal psychic energies and shielded his eyes as a furious light built within the Emperor. Power like nothing he had ever seen his father wield, or even suspected he possessed. All consuming, all powerful, it was the power to extinguish life in every sphere of its existence. Physical flesh turned to ash before it and what ancient faiths had once called a soul was burned out of existence, never to cohere again.

Nothing would ever remain of he who suffered such a fate.

Their body and soul would pass from the finite energy of the universe, to fade into memory and have all that they were wiped from the canvas of existence.

This was as complete a death as it was possible to suffer.

That power blazed along the Emperor’s sword, filling the greenskin with killing light. It erupted in a bellowing golden explosion, and lightning blazed from the coruscating afterimage of its death, arcing from ork to ork as it sought out all those who were kin to the master of Gorro. Unimaginable energies poured from the Emperor, reaching throughout the entirety of the chamber and burning every last shred of alien flesh to a mist of drifting golden ash.

Horus watched as the power of life and death coursed through the Emperor, saw him swell in stature until he was like unto a god. Wreathed in pellucid amber flames, towering and majestic.

His father never claimed to be a god, and refuted such notions with a vengeance. He had even castigated a son for believing what Horus now saw before him with his very own eyes…

Horus dropped to his knees, overcome with the wonder of what he was witnessing.

‘LUPERCAL!’

He turned at the sound of his name.

And there he was, his wolf on the hunt.

Sprinting along the bridge was Hastur, howling his name over and over while pumping a fist in the air. He had fought beyond the limits of endurance and sanity to stand at the side of his primarch and his Emperor.

The wondrous light behind him was eclipsed by blue-white plasma, and Horus turned to see the Emperor silhouetted in the cold fire of Gorro’s seething core.

His back was to Horus, sword sheathed at his hip and arms raised high. The same golden fire that had so comprehensively destroyed the greenskin warlord dripped from his spread fingertips like immaterial fire.

Horus had no knowledge of the insane mechanics behind the greenskin power core, but any fool could see that it was spiralling to destruction. The powerful tremors shaking Gorro apart was evidence enough of that, but to see the bound starfire straining against its bonds was to know it for certain. Had the death of the Mech-Warlord been the final straw in breaking whatever bonds of belief held its monstrous power in check?

>he hasn't read the wolf of ash and fire
The Emperor has an incomprehensible statline. The bionic monstrosity that was holding him must have had the strength of 5 ghazghkulls combined.

How long would it be before it exploded? Horus had no idea, but suspected it would be long before any of them could escape the depths of the scrapworld.

‘This can’t be how it ends,’ whispered Horus.

‘No, my son,’ said his father, gathering the golden light within him once again. ‘It is not.’

The Emperor clenched his fists and the air around the seething plasma ball folded. It turned sickeningly inwards, as though reality was merely a backdrop against which the dramas of the galaxy were played out.

And where it folded, the spaces behind were horribly revealed, great abysses of crawling chaos and unlimited potential. Howling voids where the combined lives of this galaxy were but motes reflected in the cosmic dust storm. An empyrean realm of the never-born, where nightmares were birthed in the foetid womb of mortal lust. Things of void-cold form writhed in the darkness, like a million snakes of ebon glass coiled in endless, slithering knots.

Horus stared deep into the abyss, repulsed and fascinated by the secret workings of the universe. Even as he watched, the Emperor drew the fabric of the world together, sealing them around the greenskin plasma core. The effort was costing him dear, the golden light at his heart waning with every passing second.

And then it was done.

A thunderous bang of air rushed to fill the void left by the plasma fire, and the backwash blew back into the chamber in a gale of sulphurous wind.

The Emperor fell to one knee, his head bowed.

Horus was at his side a heartbeat later.

‘What did you do?’ said Horus, helping his father to his feet. The Emperor looked up, colour already returning to his wondrous features.

‘Sent the plasma core into the aether,’ said the Emperor, ‘but it will not last long. We must withdraw before the warp fold implodes and takes everything with it. The entire mass of this scrapworld will be soon crushed as surely as if it had fallen into the grip of a black hole.’

The core is described as at least 1000m across.

Also the Emperor was under strain from beaming the Astronomican and had just fallen a few km.

He lost to Horus because he let his guard down around his most beloved son and tried to talk some sense into him.

The book, based on these quotes (thanks user! you rock!) seems to be a bit indecisive regarding the emprah's power level. In one instant, he is a god of war, decimating orks like he's an exploding artillery shell going off every second. Then, he's helplessly pinned by the biggest ork eva, then beta Horus gets scared and saves him. By being stronger than the ork pinning the emprah.
tl;dr - more unreliable fw wank, ffs - we deserve better consistency, dammit.

I think I prefer this stat line the best, maybe adjust a few tweaks to its rules (maybe give him concussion/strikedown on one of the weapons, give him some special super fluffy rules and I think it's done

If anyone's ashes could handle it, it would be him.

Blame that shit on Waaagh fuckery.

Horus' current rules represent his state during the Great Crusade and at the beginning of the Heresy. He will likely get another model and set of rules to represent him at the end.

The chink Sanguinius supposedly made is pretty much akin to a legend at this point, Visions of Heresy makes no mention of it. Likewise the only role Horus' remorse plays is that he begs to not be spared after the Chaos gods leave him.

BL wrote that, not FW

Horus only needed to be stronger than one of the Ork's arms, not the Ork itself. It's arm getting blasted off surprised it and gave the Emperor an opening.

No. Nice DJ-Throne, though

Should the emperor have a shooting attack?