What's going on why can't we have an active thread anymore?

So, my flgs' Journeyman league is comfortably swinging through its second week, and I'm at something of a loss.
I started with Legion, and the new battlebox- but this, with the 10 points of battlegroup only, has left me suffering from the inability to control fury properly. I have to hold back a lot, then pray that my turn of full out wins me an assassination.
With this in mind, I'm trying to plan ahead for things to mix in- I planned to spend the next 15 points bringing in a min unit of warspears and a hellmouth, with leftover points maybe picking up a shepherd or two.

I'm trying to make the most of her feat turn, and I was looking at Bethanye as a good alt caster when the option comes up.
Any advice/experience so far?
How are your leagues going so far?

Theme lists are slated for your command book. So for example, Trollbloods will be receiving their Command book in Dec., so they'll be getting access to some theme lists. Other factions are receiving their command books later depending on size of said command book/general release scheduale, so it might be say March to April (for example, Retribution) before they receive their tier lists.

And not all Command books are equal in release number or purpose. Skorne for example, are getting erratas in theirs.

>Skorne for example, are getting erratas in theirs.

Is this a joke or have they really said this?

No joke, I'm just telling you what's gonna happen.

That seems optimistically presumptive.

>Skorne for example, are getting erratas in theirs.
Unlikely, the first step in the balance errata cycle will be kneecapping the egregious gunlines (plus Sentry Stones, Hellmouth, and Madrak2), then six months after that they'll start issuing buffs to the shitty stuff.

Depending on how many heavies are in your meta strider deathstalkers can be incredibly obnoxious 3rd week of journeyman. A raek week too is a lot of fun as well.

So who is winning right now?

warmachine barring Cryx

WARMACHINE/HORDES FACTION POWER RANKING

>God (S tier)
Cygnar, Khador

>Good (A tier)
Retribution, Circle

>Mid-High (B tier)
Mercs, Minions, Convergence

>Mid (C tier)
Menoth, Trolls, Legion

>Mid-Low (D tier)
Cryx

>Low (E tier)
Skorne

I'm pretty sure Convergence should be higher.

They were already sitting pretty high in Mk2, took almost no nerfs and got plenty of buffs.

Nothing oppressive though. convengence no longer has gimmicks that makes opponents pull their hair out.

Domination is a good way to piss people off, and losing gimmicks but picking up straight power.

I mean, the two best models in the faction, the TEP and the Prime Axiom both got some pretty solid buffs.

Could someone at least provide some taking points instead of just seemingly arbitrary rankings?

What part of that are you interested in? There's been tons provided for why Skorne is at the bottom in the past.

Even just a sentence or two for each faction. I pay enough to know that cygnar is good, but why s tier? What makes cryx trash? Etc.

Cygnar is S tier due to
>maintaining a strong stable of casters with multiple competitive options
>several completely ball breaking casters or builds
>significant buffs on faction models bringing them to par if not higher than merc options
>large access to merc models
>overall change in mk3 rules benefiting gunlines which is a staple of them
>overall change to warjacks benefits them

Swap legion and cryx

You joking?

Cryx, how'd they go from the games boogeyman to Mid-Low?

Highest threat range guns, they also have elements that make certain builds or components just impossible to field. Caine 2 for example means that you can never depend on support solos for your army.

Khador is good because the caster pool is amazing and they are the only faction to have basically retained mkii infantry level power. Also their biggest weakness, blast damage doesn't work against them anymore.

Retribution has tilting power of Ossyan who makes gun fights into a guaranteed win. Sentinels are the new bane knights of WM.

Circle has wurmwood which means that Forest wall is back in full force as it was with Bradigus an edition before. While no one thinks Circle is OP, Wurmwood alone is tilting enough that tourney players have to plan against him hard.

The B tier stuff got consolidated better simply. Merc/minions can work together now with no contract/pact restrictions, got actually better stuff. Convergence just became solid with no glaring weaknesses

Menoth is just solid. Nothing busted, nothing unplayable.

Trolls are OP as shit with Madrak 2, but UP as hell in every other fucking department. The faction went from the widest warlock pool to the narrowest overnight.

Legion is still good, but not good enough to fight stupid warmachine crap.

cryx. Turns out that Cryx was poorly designed. When you take away the OP casters, OP delivery system, and OP melee power, all they are left with are slow, easy to kill infantry backed up by jacks that have always sucked since day 1.

Skorne: Jason Soles admitted to not knowing what to do with Skorne. That should tell you enough

Other than the significant buffs to Ossyan and Sentinels, did Ret pick up anything major to explain all the noise being made about their power level?

Vyros 1 is very good now.

This is the problem with mkiii.
The top faction status is being defined by 1+ caster +1 unit/model. Ret is blessed to have achieved that status

The meta change is also important. Previously, Ret not having any multiwound and tough was crimping their ability to attrition, but now that both of those things are nerfed into the ground, Ret has risen greatly in power in comparison.

Were there any changes in Vlad3 ? How viable are Uhlans in Mk3 ?

infernal machine now grants murderous instead of +2 mat.

Uhlans are pretty good. Not the best cav, but certainly not bad.

I played Vlad 3 last week with pseudo charge of the horse lords and it was fun.

>God
Khador, Ret, Circle

>Good
Cygnar, Legion (Though they have to bring Abby2/Vayl2 or abby2/lyl3 or right back in the trash they go)

agree on the rest.

Except cryx probably a bit higher, its insulting to only be one tier above skorne.

Khador
>Some great choices in casters and support units, huge buffs to their warjack almost across the board

Cyngar
>Kept a lot of their ranged game, a huge amount of their units got some pretty solid buffs, still have a pretty damn good caster selection

Ret
>They picked up some pretty amazing options in their ranged game, a lot of their anti-warmachine shit became anti-hordes, the assassination game got better with game changes.

Circle
>Have some of the best denial and caster tech in the game now, a lot of their bad pieces got some pretty big buffs

Mercs
>Tons of buffs across the board, though some of their most powerful shit got kicked pretty hard as well

Minions
>Removal of pacts solved a shitload of their single issues, lots of buffs for stuff went around helped them out

Convergence
>Should be higher. Stayed basically the same in general, lots of small buffs and only a couple small nerfs

Menoth
>Lost a lot of their hard denial, and their generally squishy casters got even squisher. At the same time, some of their stuff got way better

Trolls
>Lost a lot of their own synergies. Still sitting fine in general, but there's most certainly a readjustment period in volved

Legion
>Lot of power casters took some hits, lot of their beasts lost some shit as well. Still doing fine generally, but just not the monsters they were in Mk2

Cryx
>Lots a shitload of defensive tech against shooting in the edition where shooting is becoming king, they don't have good shooting to answer this either. One of their best casters took some of the hardest nerfs in the game, and a lot of their offensive tech also got murdered.

Skorne
>Basically lost the strategies that were winning them games, and they were already sitting pretty low on the totem pole as it was. They're suffering a huge problem of confused design, a combo of being based on bad tactics with the designers refusing to alter those tactics because they don't fit the fluff.

Out of context cygnar seems to be higher, but the fact is they are preyed on by several of the other high tier factions. There's no good answer to wurmwood in common cygnar competitive pairings.

Several ret pairings can absolutely annihilate 90% of cygnar pairings (Kae/Ossy is really fucking bad news for cygnar because of ossy. double strikeforce vs cygnar is broken with ossy, its basically auto lose unless you have sloan who is the only in the entire faction who comfortably takes on ossyan. Caine2 is reasonable also. everyone else is fucked.

Khador has several incredible builds, such as vlad1 double riflecorps, skews like karchev + all the mad dogs, butcher3, and so forth. so basically cygnar is at best in a list chicken vs khador where Haley2 can take on one half, and you need caine2 or sloan for the other half.

Cygnar is really good, but their inability to find an answer to a few really common tournament pairings in an advantageous way is the reason khador is winning more tournaments and why i believe Ret will be once they adopt stronger pairings, lists and strategies.

Cygnar had all their good merc options replaced by in faction, so a lot of the buffs just bring them back to the beginning of their strength level. Unit wise they crutch on lances and trenchers, good merc solos, and without a doubt the stormwall is still the best competitive option (which still gets rekt by strikeforce, in a big way)

only tournament casters worth fielding are haleys, caine2 and sloan. Which is not that different from the mk2 stable. Its much smaller than khadors mk3 stable.

i am not anywhere near as optimistic about god tier cygnar. i think its at best a tier 1.5 faction that would be tier 1 if not for the situation surrounding them.

Merc units also SUCK for cygnar now. i mean fucking suck. Only Alexia1 might have any traction. Merc solos are still super important though.

>There's no good answer to wurmwood in common cygnar competitive pairings.

I think you'll see Siege come into play for that, because he's straight up a counter to Wurmwood.

>Mid (C tier)
>Trolls

They are better than Cryx. they have to be.

Siege doesn't do anything for a cygnar competitive pairing except have a theoritical matchup into wurmwood. the problem is not just wurmwood but the fact that your two lists have to cover every possible matchup out there and siege brisbane is not a strong enough caster to devote 50% of your pairing to just to fight wurmwood.

Say we have a haley2/Siege pairing, how does that play into retribution and khador gunlines? one thing haley2 is weak to these days is dedicated shooting and all siege can do to mitigate that is foxhole, but is foxhole good enough vs all the DEF fixers out there, and to protect his entire list? I'm really not seeing it.

That's just assuming siege CAN take down wurmwood, which on paper he might, but theres a lot of other questions like

- how does siege threaten wurmwood's great scenario play?

-how does siege threaten wurmwood himself? if siege has suffered parts of his BG being strangleheld, wurmwood that smug fucking tree is sitting there on arm 18+3 with transfers.

don't get me wrong, he seems d ecent into wurmie, but he doesn't exactly inspire any confidence about all the other hard matchups...

You wot? Lyl is good in any of her versions.

>worst dwarf 'caster
That's like being disappointed at getting 98% on a test.

>What's going on why can't we have an active thread anymore?
Because Mk3.

So you're making a blind guess?

Discordia is also a kick to the balls of balance. Riflemen+Thane are crazy too. And most of their other stuff is just really damn solid.

>Cryx, how'd they go from the games boogeyman to Mid-Low?

Cryx's theme was supposed to be hordes of cheap rubbish, backed up by extremely powerful magic. The idea being that while your units are, on average, easy to kill and worse than your opponents, your Warcaster allows select portions of them to become hard to get rid of and able to easily beat enemy units via harsh debuffs.

And that's fine. But in practice, we don't have enough defensive tech to get across the board intact, and our buffs/debuffs are enough to bring us on-par with enemy units. They don't make us better than them, so when they apply their own buffs, we end up at a disadvantage again. Cryx has to jump through a dozen hoops to do what other factions just do from the start.

It sucks. The closest thing to a Bane I own is Agathia, and I've never run one of the faction's power lists. But it feels like I'm being punished because PP couldn't balance the army properly in Mk2.

Maybe Siege/Haley3 could be a good pairing. Haley3 should be able to deal with most gunlines.

I have a 75pt game against the local Trolls player in just under 2 hours. Here's what I'm taking:

>(Hexeris 1) Lord Tyrant Hexeris [+29]
- Razor Worm [7]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]

The list has performed great against Hordes so far, besides the Legion player that wiped out my entire unit of Nihilators and the Soulward with like 3 Blightwasps on feat turn because I'm not allowed to pass tough rolls and my Gladiators CERTAINLY aren't allowed to roll 5 to hit.

Tournament today. I'm on two hours of sleep, playing a faction I haven't practiced in two weeks, playing a caster I've never played before, and I intend to get drunk.

X-1 here I come.

Legion has been doing well in the tournament scene, though the pool of good casters is basically the same from MK2 with Saeryn swapped out with Lylyth3 .

Probably should be moved up to B or A.

So hows Kallus these days?

I've been thinking of starting a small Legion of Everblight force centered around soulless eldritch horrors what with the Hellmouth and all.

So how do you fix those issues?

We don't. We hope PP get their shit together sometime sson.

It's the Hellmouth that has been doing great.

It's such a strong scenario piece that there is no doubt it will be getting tweaks within the next two errata cycles.

That's why I haven't been playing Legion lately, because I am going to have to relearn the faction again when the Hellmouth gets nerfed :/.

Sigh Menoth why do you test me so?

What are to common list pairings for PoM right now? I don't really play tourneys but its fun to think about; at least compared to supply chain management.

Do you have 6+ Crusaders? If so, Amon is one of them.

Otherwise, Kreoss1, both Sevvies, Reznik2 and Malekus are good.

>6+ Crusaders
>Amon
He also works pretty well with a mix of jacks.

How is Vyros1 shaping up compared to Vyros2? I'm looking to prep for a regional tournament three weeks from now and, aside from starting out with Vyros1 and doing okay while enjoying Rahn casually, I don't really know what list pairings would work well with my limited experience.

I was under the impression Riflemen+Thane was just supreme anti-stealth tech. Or does the 2" Pace move change things up a lot as well? That seems like it would get them overextended and killed since they're so squishy.

More like
>God
Khador, Ret, Wormwood

The test of Circle is pretty average at best. Take away the stupid tree and that don't have much to stand on

Baldur and his monkey have been doing some pretty solid work.

And while Krueger2 lost some shit, he's now simply good instead of just ballshit.

Just tempered around with my Malekus list, hope my Cleanser Officer will come soon.
Protectorate of Menoth - Ultimate Burning

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

Malekus, the Burning Truth - WJ: +30
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Vanquisher - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14)
- Repenter - PC: 8
- Revenger - PC: 10

Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Reclaimer Gatekeeper - PC: 3
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5
Flameguard Cleansers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Flameguard Cleanser Officer - PC: 4
Holy Zealots - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Monolith Bearer - PC: 3

---

GENERATED : 08/28/2016 23:05:30
BUILD ID : 2023.16-07-31

Is Kreoss 2 or 3 still good?
I've got:
Sevy1, Anson Durst, Kreoss 2, Reznik1, I like Kreoss 3 and Ammon, but I dont have 6+ Crusders
1 Crusader, 2 Reckoners, Avatar, Vanquisher, and another crusader kit, un built.

>Skorne
>Basically lost the strategies that were winning them games, and they were already sitting pretty low on the totem pole as it was. They're suffering a huge problem of confused design, a combo of being based on bad tactics with the designers refusing to alter those tactics because they don't fit the fluff.

The Basilisk Krea fit the fluff, what it did was give bad play experiences to an opponent that was betting everything on the strength of their ranged game. So it had to go. Now everyone gets to have fun!

Ret won Templecon. Spread the good news.

no one cares. dead game

I care.
Even if Ded game

ooh, that was VERY unexpected. Who would've thought one of the best factions would've won?

Why the hell isn't there a thread subject on this thing?

>badump-bump

>I was under the impression Riflemen+Thane was just supreme anti-stealth tech.
Well it fixes the one weakness of the best gunline in the game.

WIP Morbius - a tribute for father cryx

Nice work on the cannon.

Just starting to get into this, does anyone know if the RPG supplements are any good ?
Also does anyone recommended any of the other books ?

I like the look of Garryth and his theme force. Is he any good on the table? Are Mage Hunters /MH Strike Force/ MH Infiltrators any good?

>his theme force
What? Those don't exist (yet) in Mk3, with very few exceptions.

>I was talking about which nation was winning lore wise but thanks for the competetive advise I guess

If I wanna maximize the amount of cannons in my army, should I take deck guns or just Mariners?

Noone ever wins, lore wise. I can give a brief rundown of where the factions currently stand. (My knowledge is limited. I've read the last couple of SIX books, but haven't touched the entries in the new Prime or Primal books.)
Oh, spoilers are ahead for anyone who cares. Don't read if you feel so inclined.
Cygnar: Has a new king, pulled some dickery with Khador over the status of Lleal. Cygnar's new king plans to marry the last surviving heir to the Llealese throne and gain legitimate control of Lleal's land. Khador isn't happy, Cygnar (with Magnus as a Cygnar officer!) Preemptively strikes Khadoran occupied towns in Lleal.

Protectorate: I think they're still doing the Northern crusade thing. I do not believe any of their internal politics have changed.

Khador: Right before the two year jump, after a joint Khador/Cygnar asswhooping of Cryx at the end of that Athanc storyline, Khador attacked Cygnar and was beaten back to rest and lick it's wounds. The empress, to solidify and centralize power is engaged to Vlad. They currently aren't too happy about Cygnar attacking them.

Cryx: They lost the athanc they were after. It ended up in the hands of Haley and Saeryn, who then gave it to another dragon in a deal to protect Cygnar and LoE's warlocks from being messed with by the dragon alliance. Toruk did manage to snatch up on of the smaller dragons during a dragon battle, so he's currently digesting that.

Retribution: That skorne invasion thing? No idea how it ended. Skorne lost though. Goreshade made it into Scyrah's glen, some divine stuff happened, an unnamed champion of Scyrah emerge from the glen and drove out the undead Goreshade brought with them.

Convergence: I don't know. Still doing sneak ley line stuff and getting into skirmishes with Circle.

Mercs: Read the Cygnar entry. Magnus got that king on the throne via a merc army interjecting into Cygnar's short lived civil war. Magnus killed Vinter during that time. No news on pirates or Cephalyx.

The Protectorate's total contribution to Mk3 fluff is Amon jumping out of the bushes yelling "BOO!" and getting smacked upside the head by Stryker.

It's implied that the Llaelese Resistance might be cutting ties with them as a condition of Cygnar's Llael expedition giving them a seat at the table.

Trolls: Madrak lost Rathrok to Kromac, Doomshaper is still looking for more troll gargantuans, Some trolls move to Zu (Zuu?)

Circle: Kromac has Rathrok, Kreuger started all the dragon nonsense in an attempt to have the Dragon Alliance kill Legion. His plan went to crap afterwards.

Legion: All the warlocks got magic dragon blight sonar pinged by Krueger, and they only survived being hunted by the other dragons because Saeryn (Ryas was there, too) made a deal with the head dragon in exchange for an athanc. She had to sever her mental connection to Everblight to do so because he kept whining at her to do stupid stuff.(Ryas's as well.) Everblight may or may not consider the twins traitors at this point.

Skorne: They lost the Ios invasion. Very little information outside of that.

Minions: Nothing bew since the last expansion book. That one gator may have become a god. Carver still wants Helga's sweet, sweet baby maker.

I can't think of anything else. Others can fill in the blanks.

I swear on me mum if the Reborn doesn't appear and save Skorne like a god damn Jesus I will be pissed.

Is there a link to the new cards/stats in this giant blob of text?

Yes - drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE

>Some trolls move to Zu (Zuu?)

Where the heck did this come from?

sup fellow crusaders and the rightful rulers of mankind.

I'm looking into making a new order of doods for Menoth. I've not looked much into mercs yet, are there any good ones i should consider? And will I need the attendant priests?

The answer to that is not a quick one, but here's a summary:
1) There are no books out for the current version of the game, other than the core rulebook. They'll be releasing more rules supplements down the road.

2) The old rulebooks (Mark 1 and Mark 2) are only really interesting for fluff completeness / artwork. If you get a chance to pick them up cheap though, go for it.

3) The Skull Island books are the most direct line for large doses of fluff, in short story / novel form. Probably the best spot to start if you just want to dive right in on the background material.

4) The new RPG books are good as general references / encyclopedias for the world, and of course necessary if you want to play the IKRPG.

5) The old RPG books are mainly interesting for fluff esoterica, like learning wayyy too much about infernals or skorne ghosts. They are also getting to be rare / expensive, so this is probably your last stop after you have lots of the other things above.

He made a few top 3's, so he's in a good spot. Swordsmen and Grotesques are in a good spot this edition, and he can help carry them farther.

Most of the winning lists on Discount Games don't run one, and the ones that do only run a single one.

Man I really like this setting and I really want to like the system but its unpolished as fuck.

I was thinking of his MK2 theme force version. I understand it no longer applies, but I still like the look of the models in it. Are they still playable?

...

Yeah, he does. But in terms of raw efficiency, you can't beat stacks of Crusaders. He's not really a top tier caster until you've got 7+ heavies on the table, and most of those are going to be Crusaders.

It's Retribution. Everything in Ret is playable.

It's only been legal for the beginning of the month. Otherwise it's been Lyl3 and Abby2 which can run without them.

I've been playing them and I feel hamstrung without Hellmouths. They are that good.

I'm doing something similar, although I'm taking Idrians as my unit (I'm liking their synergy with Ignite -- PS 16 on the charge against their prey target, over the Cleansers' synergy with feat), and taking three ranged heavies, though.

Didn't play Kreoss2 or 3 in Mk2, so I can't really comment. Dominant train of thought seems to be that K2 is bad and K3 is good, though.

How is everblight, specifically Kallus doing these days?

I have been thinking of making a small soulless eldritch horrors themed list what with the release of the hellmouth and all.

>Man I really like this setting and I really want to like the system but its unpolished as fuck.
Assume you're talking about the IKRPG system? I think it's less a question of polish than it is of design philosophy. The devs set out to shoe-horn some rpg elements into a tabletop wargame, so that's essentially what you get. If that's not what you're looking for, it's going to disappoint.

Yeah I thought he meant the rpg. Polish probably isn't harsh enough your right. I just feel like theres a solid enough core to the game and then they copy pasted tge warmachine rules and called it a day.

Revenger is cool for being a lil resistant arc node which can become totally awesome with scourge