Play D&D

>You're allowed to dislike D&D. No really, it's fine. But if you're going to be cunt when someone wants to play D&D and you don't even know them, then you're being an autistic grognard.

>Immediate defense mode

Calm down you dork, I didn't even criticize it. Just saying that if your sole reason behind not liking a system is "it's not muh dee un dee" then you have a problem.

Try Fantasy Craft, it's so good that I shill it here and I don't even get paid.

WHFRP (1st & 2nd) will come across as a terrible system when you approach it like D&D, running head first into the combat will get you killed most of the times, magic has to be used with extreme caution and power level is generally much lower. So I can see how people migrating into it form D&D will suddenly feel they can't make it out of the town because first encounter with anything hostile tears them a new asshole.
3rd is not so cruel but it's more of a boardgame than RPG really.

Maybe you just don't like fantasy P&P games

Assuming that this wasn't made up (Which it likely is), what exactly was your problem with any of those? You should just play Savage Words desu senpai.

You would encounter similar problems with RQ and to lesser extent, GURPS

I was just pointing out there's never really a time to be a cunt, one side or another. Maybe you're just immune to that message.

Why are you so afraid of trying new, less popular things, OP?

Oh get over yourself. Just because you got triggered over someone being a touch mean on the internet doesn't make the criticism any less valid.

>im a cunt watch me cunt

Ha ha, you're a cunt.

>GURPS Fantasy
The GURPS Fantasy is a book to help build worlds, not a setting book.

Listen to this guy. Fantasy Craft is a good game.

Jesus Christ, are you sure you're on the right website?

As someone who really likes FATE you have to a GM who knows what they're doing to make it work or it's going to be fucking awful.

I've seen bad FATE GMs try to cram D&D style combats while giving enemies hugely inflated stat values to try to survive against the PCs, GMs who try to make their own magic system and end up invalidating a shitload of skills because they didn't think things through, GMs who rarely use Compels which made the whole concept of fate points fall apart, etc.

If you know what you're doing FATE can be amazing, but unlike something like D&D where a mediocre to bad GM can still cludge together a decent session using the system, FATE requires your GM to know their shit or things will be awful.

Play Pathfinder

Are you sure you're on the right board? Misclicked Veeky Forums when you were looking for /r9k/?

RPG.net is just this way, user.

This is a common problem. D&D really does teach players horrible habits and it it takes a long time for players who learned from D&D to un-learn those habits.

Assuming you're not just trolling, OP your group really needs to change the way they think about storytelling and how story and gameplay interact. D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder are systems that reward Character Optimization over all else, and in a lot of ways, they even penalize tactical thinking. You need to start thinking less like you are playing a Card Game or Board Game and more like you are people in a situation that you need to get out of. Sometimes the best solution is not to charge headlong at your opposition. Sometimes you have to fight smart, use the environment to your advantage, talk your way out of a situation, or find ways to complete your objective while avoiding direct confrontation.

These are all things that are de-emphasized or directly penalized in D&D in favor of building a character with the right class abilities or feats.

Why don't you stay there?

Because I like being a cunt but can't be bothered to be passive-aggressive.

You must be bummed about summer ending.

You must be bummed all summer without ending.

Thirding this.

D&D doesn't teach bad habits.
D&D's just popular, so you get a lot of players, and some of them are bad. That's it, really.

On the other hand, games like Fate teach players horrible habits and it takes a long time for players who learned from Fate to un-learn those habits.

Assuming you're not just trolling, you need to see that groups that play Fate need to change the way they think about storytelling and how story and gameplay interact. Fate is a system that rewards strong-arming a story, they even penalize tactical thinking and reward system abuse. They need to start thinking less like a circle jerk or fanfiction and more like you are people in a situation that need to get out of. Sometime the best solution is not to just force things with arguments about using fate points and charging headlong at your opposition. Sometimes you have to fight smart, use the environment to your advantage, talk your way out etc. etc.

These are all things that are de-emphasized or directly penalized in FATE in favor of playing a system with loose mechanics and story bending abilities.

Really, you can argue any game teaches bad habits, even when right in the rulebooks they tell you how to avoid those bad habits.

Any game teaches habits and mannerisms that don't necessarily translate properly to other systems. Also, intentional or not, different games emphasize different player motivations and aesthethics of play. If you go into one with the wrong expectations, the experience will be lesser for it.

That explains why in OP's (made-up) scenario his party just dropped GURPS without giving any reason, because it's a modular system designed for freedom and it just enables you to do what you want. If they project their moody D&D logic into GURPS and have a bad time, they just blame the system because they don't know any better. I'll have to remember that.

Actually don't like Savage Worlds everyone's too same-y.

Or it's because GURPS is a joke system that doesn't do anything well.

>Saying it's designed for "freedom" when it's a clunky nightmare

>it's a clunky nightmare
It's modular. You're supposed to pick and choose the optional rules you want to use. You could use only GURPS lite and run a campaign if you want.

If you think you're supposed to use every little optional side rule, then you didn't read very carefully when the books tell you to use only what you want from the system. This is why people are so quick to meme it up and call it bad when they're just clueless.

>I've seen bad FATE GMs try to cram D&D style combats while giving enemies hugely inflated stat values to try to survive against the PCs, GMs who try to make their own magic system and end up invalidating a shitload of skills because they didn't think things through, GMs who rarely use Compels which made the whole concept of fate points fall apart, etc.

That's just bad GMing in general. Any GM worth their salt knows the enemies' purpose is to give the players a challenge, not to stall them.

To be fair, the OP's story has them trying a bunch of other systems.

Which is actually what my group did. We've tried GURPS, Dungeon World, Unknown Armies, World of Darkness, Legend of the Five Rings, and even one of the Pokémon tabletop games.

Where we've come out is that 5E D&D is really the best suited to our group and playstyle. The lack of content hasn't really been a problem thus far, and the rules are loose enough in the right places that we don't feel shackled by the system.

This is true. My play group started enjoying Shadowrun a lot more when we realized we were playing it like Pathfinder.

Just remember. If you want to play Pathfinder, play Pathfinder. If you want to play Shadowrun, play Shadowrun. If you want to play Dark Heresy, play Dark Heresy. Because all games have their own feel to them.

desu, GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and its lighter rules have been funnier to me than any D&D version I've played so far.

GURPS works best when you pretend you're going to play GURPS, but you avoid using the system as much as possible.

Again, GURPS is not every single possible rule.

I work retail so yeah.

>fantasycrunch
hell no, the rules aren't even different enough from DnD to warrant that kind of math

have you tried not playing fantasy? Or asking the guy to propose something? Or homebrewing because DnD rules are terible?

>You could use only GURPS lite and run a campaign if you want.

It's like every single bad rule possible though. Picking through a bad system just to find something not horrible is sort of why GURPS has avoided widespread appeal.

It's niche as fuck, which is funny because it's tries to be a system for everyone.

...

You don't need to use the whole book you know. Just pick a couple rules that you like. Why does everyone think that you need to use all of the rules in GURPS when most of them are incompatible, even in the same book? You just pick a couple.

>seems complicated...
I introduced my friends to GURPS and they learned the system and presented me capable character sheets within a day of being given pdfs.
Stop playing with mouth-breathing burger "people" who get antsy and start tearing up when they're presented something that requires them to open their eyes and read.

Nice dichotomy, jackass.

>Where we've come out is that 5E D&D is really the best suited to our group and playstyle.
What playstyle is that?

Cunt.

Try Hackmaster if you like Fantasy, or Song of Swords if you like medieval combat

don't actually ever play Song of Swords, its combat system will make all other fantasy systems feel retarded, constrictive and nonsensical in comparison

SoS and RoS must be a cursed system I can't get out of it and it's a war to get anyone into it. Like seeing beyond the veil or something.

>Try Hackmaster if you like Fantasy
Yeah, might as well punch yourself in the nuts, if only so as to further appreciate all the times when you're not being punched in the nuts.

>change from D&D to GURPS Fantasy
Oh I am laffin
>RQ6, DW, FATE
All shit
>WHFRP
Did anyone kill themselves?

I don't really believe this story though. Why didn't you post pathfinder as an alternative?

>alternative
Because D&D is not an alternative to D&D

Just like D&Dfinder!

>pathfinder is D&D
Okay retard go kill yourself so Veeky Forums can have less THAT GUY stories you dumbass piece of shit

Do you even see what you type before you click "shitpost"?

I'll take "shit that 3aboos claim, but never happen" for 1000 Alex.

Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch user.

Wondering when you'd show your face again 3aboo.

>Wahh, mommy! They said mean things to me again!
>Okay dear, let me change your diaper...

>Pathfinder isn't D&D!
>Uses D&D 3.5 classes, skill rules, feats, prestige classes, monsters, races, etc.
>Tweaks the skill list and skill points
>Adds archetypes (which are reskinned kit classes from AD&D 2e)
>Add CMD and CMB but grappling is still a clusterfuck that requires a flowchart

Yep. Sure isn't D&D 3.5 with a wheelbarrow of houserules, nosirree.

Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch-user.

>D&D doesn't teach bad habits.

3rd edition teaches you that the option that grants magic is better than the option that doesn't.

3rd edition teaches you that studying the book, cover to cover, and weeding out the trap options before play is more valuable than actually sitting down and making a character.

3rd edition teaches you that thinking outside the box and using a strategy that isn't covered within the rules or on your character sheet is something that deserves a penalty.

3rd edition teaches you that the optimal strategy to any problem is to optimize yourself to the point where the problem becomes trivial.

3rd edition teaches you that in order to prevent power gaming, the GM has to directly oppose each and every action you make, to the point that the rules are used with the same argumentative attitude as a lawyer.

And lastly, 3rd edition teaches you that the solution to any problem is to patch it up using homebrews and supplements, rather than just trying another system that might already have fixed the issue by design.

I've honestly never found a good fantasy RPG that wasn't super-rules light. So, yeah... sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and play D&D.

Not everything is all-or-nothing mate.

Bruh...
Pathfinder is my main game and that shit is a D&D 3.5 clone made for people like playing D&D 3.5.

>Come into a thread
>Get triggered and defensive
>YOU'RE THE ONES WHO ARE TRIGGERED REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

IT'S NOT D&DDDDDDDDDDDDD ;.; ;.; ;.; D: D: D: D: ;.; D: D:!! That's like saying Mana Khemia is an Atelier game or that Bravely Default is a Final Fantasy game ;.; D: D: ;.; ;.; D: D:

PF is basically Paizo cashing in during the period when 4e was getting shat on for being too different user.

The only difference is that Paizo somehow found a way to give more options while restricting martials even moreso than usual.

Nah, that's just you being silly.

In fact, all of what you said is flat out wrong. Like you've never actually read the books. if you had, cover to cover, you'd realize all you're talking about is discussed in the books, and you're just coming from a power-gaming perspective, and that can exist in all games, more or less.

You really need to relax. What's with the bee in your bonnet? It sounds like some DM stole your girlfriend during a game of 3rd edition.

Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch-user.

>3aboo denies that his game is garbage

What a surprising and totally unexpected twist to the formula.

Even accusing me of never playing the system, never heard that shit before.

Looks like the trolls are back in force.
Time to watch them open up their assholes and start shitposting, I guess.

Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch-user.

Pathfinder is closer to 3.5 and 3e than those two are to any other edition of D&D. It might not be an official D&D brand, but it exists squarely within the D&D continuum. Frankly, if you don't consider Pathfinder as D&D in all but name, you shouldn't consider anything past 2e D&D either (except in name).

Does Pathfinder have Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion?

Looks like you filled in your quota for the day.

Do you receive your complementary $0.04 in your bank account yet?

Oh wait, he does it for free!

...

Yes

d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mage-s-magnificent-mansion

Don't give that thing attention. Don't respond. Just report.

Living up to your name, I see.

paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/mageSMagnificentMansion.html

Famous Wizard names are copyrighted I believe so Mordenkainen and Bigby don't get name dropped in their spells

That's some random mage's mansion, not Mordenkainen's.

You can't hoodwink me.
But really, I'm just joking with you.

It's the same in the SRD, which also omits Mind Flayers and Beholders

>In fact, all of what you said is flat out wrong.
It isn't really though.
Like it was brought up last time these two pomantically entwined bitches went at it like sweaty dung beetles, ivory tower design leads to most, if not all, of those things.

That said, D&D is not just 3.x.
And OP did not mention the edition, probably because they never played any ttrpg.

Does Basic?

I don't think you understand what ivory tower design is or means. I've got a sense you think you do, which is why I'm scared of what else you think you understand.

>no savage worlds

So you don't want to play good games? Because you just implied you had found some but decided to play DnD instead.

Is this the part where people give the correct definition and you sperg and call it flat out wrong or is this the part were people ask you for a definition and you dance around it for five hours because you know that you're wrong?

Because I really want to know what your definition is but I don't feel like seeing you dance around the question for 150+ posts either.

*where people ask you for a definition...

damn auto-correct

Does it not involve intentionally designing elements of the game that are less fun to play with the intention being that a portion the fun of the game would be finding all the best options?

>I'm scared of what else you think you understand.
Don't be scared. It will be alright.