Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Jaina should come hang out with me

The thing that pisses me off is that she didn't drown orgrimmar.

And how the fuck did the horde get a navy if they didn't even have any ports?

Kel'Thuzad please go.

>He cared for the Horde
You do realize he was in talks with Varian to rejoin the Alliance, right? Before Jaina fucked up the Sunreavers in Dalaran, anyway.

Garrosh was a terrible Warchief. I'm glad he's dead.

>Went well for him, didn't it?
the result doesn't change the legitimacy of the action

The veterans of the wars are all of a similar mindset, and it's not like there hasn't been abundant reasons to reinforce that line of thought since.

>legitimacy of the action
Willingly giving up peace for personal reasons when your own daughter is trying to convince you not to?

Real legitimate

>peace with monsters who burned their way through your kingdoms

>no South Seas exansion ever

BUT I WANNA BE A PIRATE

>and they did it again

>dat alliance ass

I'd mana tap that like garrosh did to theramore.

youtube.com/watch?v=b_qCP8lFmlE

you and me both user

>genuinely reformed monsters
That was your best shot at peace.

And you blew it.

youtube.com/watch?v=_ACyZIXkHq0

Come to Naxx and say that to my face and see what happens

I was thinking of playing the wow tabletop rpg with my group, anyone have any good builds?

Don't play the official version, it sucks

With Illidan back and not crazy, it seems Blizzard is finally trying to rewind BC back to Frozen Throne. How long until Kael'thas and Vashj are back?
He's due for another setback, and I'm sure it'll turn out that he was merely using the Legion in an absurdly over-complicated plan to reignite the Sunwell.
Hell, Blizzard's got faction-choosing technology since MoP, we could very well get an Alliance/Horde split within the blood elves.

If the Alliance wanted to get rid of the Orc threat, they should have done it at the end of the Second War while they still had the chance; now the Orcs have diplomatic ties with the goblins who are Not!America and could bomb the quant little human nations back into the stone age.

>He goes full nightborne mode
>Mana vampire hero class

...

Yeah after MoP they kind of shot themselves in the foot about wanting to maintain any sort of clear cut visual identity between the factions. With Panda on both sides there is no reason more cross faction races could not be implemented if they insist on keeping the stupid RED vs BLU faction war going. Which we all know they do because it's world of WARcraft right? I thought our battles with the Scourge, Legion, Iron Horde were all wars but nope, mere petty skirmishes in the background of the only WAR that matters!

So everyone has a background for their characters, right?

Yes.

It's part of the fun for me, even if I don't have a lot of opportunities to RP.

Why does this general keep getting posted? You literally never about TTRPGs, despite the fact that at least 2 exist. This is purely a Warcraft discussion lore with a few words tacked on the title to justify its inclusion on this board.

I love Warcraft lore as much as the next guy, but shouldn't this thread be on /v/ or Veeky Forums?

>but shouldn't this thread be on /v/
It's always been both.

More or less.

That is like saying Tolkien belongs on Veeky Forums, really it should but it is as much a part of Veeky Forums culture as any ttrpg.

I've posted a few times with my project for a more Sword & Planet/Planetary Romance/Conan-esque Draenor. The discussions here have merit to my gaming experience because they help the process and the discussions of lore assist in me thinking of things I can twist for my own benefit.

Though to be fair, I've only been posting in the past six or seven threads so I cannot vouch for what has come before or what might come after. But from what I've seen or been party to, enough of it has related to my own tg purposes for me to be perfectly fine with what is not.

Is the topic often more related to WoW than an RPG proper? Yeah. But if shifts due to something related to the topic were grounds for moving the thread elsewhere there would be very little on Veeky Forums. 40k often goes to Dawn of War topics, most threads devolve into waifu-bait, and the discussions of horror stories and friendly local game stores have more to do with those who play traditional games than games themselves (usually).

Your complaint has merit, but the discussion of lore (which unfortunately often directly ties to an MMO that is very lax with its structure of storytelling) is as important as talking about raw mechanics.

Or, more eloquently and simply put, what said.

wut

Yeah, I don't even RP but I have backgrounds for all my characters.

My Death Knight is the stereotypical fallen paladin, my Dwarf Shaman was a Gryphon Rider back in the Second War, and so on.

That's a pretty fair response. I suppose this thread has far more merit than arguing which primarch has the largest balls.

I'd argue that "horror stories" and "that guy" threads still relate to Veeky Forums culture, but then again, at the end of the day, so does Warcraft ().

Have a pleasant evening.

Lore discussion is important for anybody running a game or creating characters for one, dingus.

It's assumed that people will be adapting the game to whatever system they think would work best.

Unless it's 3e or 3.5, in which case they should just use the published RPG versions you mentioned, which are 3e/3.5 compatible.

Honestly you'd be a better teacher than Antonidas. You've got thousands of students and some of them are literal raid bosses.

Jaina shouldn't be nearly as powerful as she apparently is now. She was a glorified intern when everything went to shit and her university + professor got raped. She had Aegwyn with her for years and blizz didn't even bother explaining how she continued her training.

It's like that old screencap showing the difference between elf wizards and human wizards

Progress can be made much faster if you don't give a shit about the lives cost

Your main gets canonically race-changed into a female draenei. As in, they are aware they changed and so is everyone else.

Who is your main and what happens?

Her great power probably derives, at least in part, from that Titan artifact in her possession.

Just read this:

media.blizzard.com/wow/lore/pdfdownload/leader-story/lorthemar-theron/lorthemar-theron-enUS.pdf

while afk leveling in invasions, bretty good, got some belf feels going. Making me wish more that Kael would return one day, acknowledge the shit Lor'themar had gone through, buddy up, and make Quel'Thalas great again with purified Legion tech.

you can hear the Silvermoon/Sunwell music in the Legion log in screen, maybe it's a hint for major belf content

List of best warchiefs as followed

1. Doomhammer
2. Garrosh
3. Blackhand
4. Thrall
5. Voljin

If not for Gul'dan fucking him over Doomhammer probably would of conquered Azeroth and I appreciate that Garrosh wasn't a human loving cuck who just randomly forgot the Hordes age old war against the Alliance in favor of throwing all their resources at this weeks "Common enemy we must all unite to defeat". Also I think he does some pretty hilarious shit and he actually took steps to advance the horde instead of maintaining the status quo like Thrall did.

Blackhand was also an effective Warchief even if he was merely a puppet for Guldan. All the chieftains respected him enough that he was able to lead the horde as an effective fighting force despite it still being in its infancy and a lot of the clans still had beef against each other. Also probably could of defeated the Alliance if Doomhammer hadn't betrayed him.

WC3 Thrall wasn't bad and I give him credit for re-igniting the fire in the orc and managing to break them all out of the internment camps but his thing for blonde haired blue eyed humans made him weak. Voljin has no right being a warchief. He was just a glorified assassin / witch doctor who couldn't even retake his own homeland for years. I haven't been keeping up with lore since WoW's gone to shit but has he even done anything worthy of the title?

He died for it. That has to count right?

Just read up what happened to him and holy shit thats pathetic. Almost as sad as Sylvanas becoming Warchief.

Greatest to weakest

1. Thrall (longest serving, made the most allies, created an orcish homeland on Azeroth)
2. Doomhammer (made valuable allies, defeated the humans after seizing control of the Horde from Gul'dan and Blackhand, but lost to the humans thereafter, so points deducted)
3. Vol'jin (Did precisely jack shit, thus making him better than the last two)
4. Blackhand (Founded the Horde, but was such an idiot that he would have lost a certain-win war if it weren't for Doomhammer seizing control of the Horde from him)
5. Garrosh (destroyed allegiances held to the Horde, started wars he couldn't possibly win, turned his own people against him. His presence deducts points from Thrall, but not so much that it would lower Thrall below Doomhammer)

Hmm from what I remember Blackhand pretty much won the war after burning Stormwind and fending off the Alliances last ditch attack on Blackrock, but literally right after the battle Doomhammer decided to launch a coup and killed him.

>that story
Fug.
Hadn't ever read that. That is a depth of character you don't usually see in Blizzard stuff. Nice to see Lor'themar and Halduron being like old buddies and I liked Rommath in this.

It's actually fanfic made canon. I looked it up after someone mentioned it last thread.

Again showing how bad blizz's own writing is that a fan could done better.

This gives me hope that I could be a writer for Blizz. What should I write to try and send to Blizzard? Together, we could make lore great again.

To continue off the topic, how would Lor'themar, or Kael, make Quel'thalas great again? How do they plan to do it if it's too difficult to pull off them actually doing it.

Oh, I thought it happened the other way around, Blackhand fends off the attack on Blackrock, then Doomhammer stages his coup, then Stormwind gets ransacked

But it's been a very long time since I played WC1, so I could easily be mistaken

I love the description of Aethas's appearance

I hate it when blizzard created these dumb plot points that never ever would have actually worked. There was never any chance of blood elves rejoining the alliance and nobody believed it for a second.

I love the way Rommath reacted to both Aethas and Lor'themar after the meeting. Showed so much of the desperation Kael was in and how anxious he was go get back to Silvermoon and make Quel'thalas great again.

Almost made me forgive Blizz's lore fuck up with Kael to make him a loot pinata.

Can we just put Sarah Pine in charge of Warcraft lore?

If her stories are anything to go by, she'd be far, far better at it than Kosak

Thrall really needs to get off his ass and be the Warchief again. At least he was competent and kept his horde of bloodthirsty monsters somewhat in-check.

Yup, not all of them. But at least for my big four character.

Full background for some, and just concepts for others.

Anyone on a decent MG side Horde guild? Probably not the place to ask, but I want some quality RP.

Killing off all of Team Illidan (except Akama, who in post-Legion lore turns out to have just been a whiny fuck who got Our Lord and Savior killed, and gets mindraped back in line by the player DH) in TBC was a mistake. They're bringing Illidan back (although for now he's a disembodied soul since Gul'dan looted his corpse) so they can at least try to fix his plotline (although for some reason they deicded to go with "Illidan is Jesus, and did nothing wrong"), but Kael switching over to the Legion and getting double-killed and Vash being a raidboss and not really doing anything was a waste of the characters.

Is there anything a warlock would want to study in Tanaris?

Yeah, the caverns of time

I won't lie, completely forgot about that. Would the Sandfury trolls or the trolls in the area have any types of things to study you think?

Well, sandfury trolls don't really use fel magic. But they do use some arcane magic, so maybe

my main ones yes.

>implying I'm metzen

Sure if she allows thrall to grow hair again
Now where the fuck's my cocaine

Seriously though, I like how they canonized the story. It makes the future of the sindorei very interesting.

I've always thought that sylvanas had a soft spot for quel'thalas with her singing lament of the highborn to remind us and everything. Now that it's clear she's as much a cunt to belves as she is to everyone else, the horde offers silvermoon literally nothing. While belves continued fighting horde wars, giving access to dalaran, stealing artifacts and overthrowing garrosh, not a single fucking time did anyone in the horde gave a shit about silvermoon. Fucking draenei did more for belves than the horde combined x100. Except for sylvanas which turned out to be a trick to puppet them.

Now assuming the leftover scourge in ghostland have been delt with (it's been over a decade and varian's alliance deal being possible at all require quel'thalas being truly independent), lich queen can't blackmail anymore, they're completely free to leave this shitty pact with orgrimmar, what would they do?

Obviously they won't be allowed to do the obvious, aka leaving the horde, because that would fuck the game up. Which means something big must happen within the horde regarding quel'thalas that give the belves a reason to stay. Unfortunately I don't think this event, if it happens, will make belves revered within the horde and make Lor'themar warchief. Since if a civilized faction becomes the figurehead of the horde, it'll be too similar to the alliance, which would also fuck the game up. But possible content is still better than no content.

>all of the thunder king's power in her staff
>"she shouldn't be as powerful"
no.

>all of the thunder king's power in her staff
She has that ?
Oh shit.

I am honestly impressed by Blizzard's devotion to consistently making each expansion worse lore-wise than the last

The only upset was WotLK, which had dumb things like the whole blue dragonflight plotline, but wasn't as bad lore-wise as BC

>not just sitting back and enjoying the ride.

everything post WoTLK is non canon.

A question about ghosts and other spirits in this setting.

Can they actually be smacked with any old weapon or would you need magic or an enchanted weapon to hurt them?

Care to explain? I've only played the first month of MoP

Anyway she was too OP even before MoP. Wayyyy before that she was established as the most powerful mortal female mage alive, and became led Dalaran after Rohnin died, which is fucking impossible. She's never gone through any huge power ups before the staff upgrade you mentioned, how the fuck is she better than every other female mage in both magic AND leadership? Fucking Modera should be more qualified than her for leading Dalaran and Modera is a literally who. Not to mention Aegwyn, and whoever else female elf that's had centuries of practice.

Jaina (and Thrall) were never meant to be strong in combat, but were special in their open mindedness to think outside the box and be hippy liberal and shit. But nope, it's WoW, it's waifu time, everyone with a memorable name has to be Lich King's level of power.

she was always a gifted/talented mage who was authorized by antonidas to investigate what happened to the plague. There is nothing that says she stopped training while ruling a city.

Plus the Thunder Isle quest line has the PC give her the supercharged staff of antonidas that is imbued with the power of the thunder king.

Always.

>Jaina (and Thrall) were never meant to be strong in combat
>Thrall was always described as being a great shaman
>Back in WC3, was able to harm Archimonde, which was damned impressive
Can't really say much for Jaina though.

Spending all days the head in books and learning / making new spells can give you some pretty powerful skills.

I'd also guess that Antonidas wasn't a shit teacher, plus killing some Scourge / establishing a safe space for Theramore in those hostile swamps / all the WotlK shit can give some nice combat experience.

I am torn between my simple backstory for my Blood Elf paladin and wanting to flesh it out and make it interesting. Unfortunately, the ideas I have would make it thoroughly non-canon and that irks me.

As of right now, the gist of it is that he escaped the destruction of Silvermoon when he was ordered by his superiors to lead a party of survivors through Zul'Aman. Eventually he makes his way to Kalimdor, possibly as a part of Jaina's expedition and starts a mission in the Barrens to devote himself to the light and come to terms with the war.

I imagined him apart from Liadrin's Blood Knights, at least before the SSO. His time in the Barrens let him get to know the races of the Horde and he visits Thrall's court on occasion. He visits the Outlands to pledge himself to his Prince, but joins with the Scryers after witnessing the depravity of Kael'Thas. Helped to reclaim the Sunwell.

From there, it's just your standard fare adventuring. Joined the Argent Crusade, didn't become anyone super important. I have no idea how he spent the next three x-packs. The overall stress of the character is his neutrality. I'm not saying he's an Alliance sympathizer, but the whole Horde/Alliance thing is a waste of time to him. Loyalty to his people, to Silvermoon, motivates him, not a sense of betrayal or anger.

---

Now here's where the wheels come off: I have no idea who he was before the Third War. He's a paladin, but I feel like making him a member of the Silver Hand is disingenuous. I imagine the High Elves had their own paladins, or something close to that (divine warriors)? Maybe he was a low-level knight in the royal guard or something? But who would he be guarding and why wouldn't they just take a boat to leave Silvermoon? He'd have to be close to the Troll border, but why? Maybe it's a princess. That's a old trope. But the crown has no claimant: she'd have to die or fade into obscurity.

Alright, someone tell me it's shit and maybe offer a suggestion.

But if Thrall is the main hero of one faction he can't be a hero to both, user.

>want to run a WoW 4e game
>also want to just make NuHorde the straight up villains, but also let Belves, Tauren, and maybe some of the saner Trolls and Gobbos join the Alliance while Orcs and Forsaken jerk each other off over who can kick more puppies

How retarded is this idea?

reminder varyan always wanted war

Really stupid

Unless your "new Horde" is some shit Garrosh came up with when it became apparent that the trolls, tauren, blood elves and most orcs aren't going to put up with his shit for much longer

He wanted war up until Kosak took over

Then he ceased to have any personality at all, and continued to have no personality up until his death

Thrall actually is supposed to be pretty strong in combat. Aside from being a very good shaman, he's also a strong warrior. People tend to forget he fought as a gladiator and runs around wearing Doomhammer's plate armor and warhammer. He's effectively a shaman/warrior multiclass.

> I imagine the High Elves had their own paladins, or something close to that (divine warriors)?
They had Priests, but nothing like Paladins until the Blood Knights came along.

I'd suggest something along the lines of a warrior who had faith in the light, but could not manifest any powers until later.

That's not bad, but I liked him being sought out by Liadrin and refusing her. I'll have to think on this. Thanks for the input though.

The Silver Covenant has a paladins and I doubt they're newly minted. Did the Silver Hand have elves?

Also wasn't Thalorien Dawnseeker a paladin?

I wonder how many soldiers from the Alliance and Horde just straight up fucking deserted during War Crimes and went to go take their chances settling Pandaria without the genocide part

It still triggers me that Thrall seems to forget that he used to be an all around badass.

>thrall
>Good warrior
Reminder naked garrosh btfo'd him and he had to magic him away.

There's Warcraft threads on /v/, Veeky Forums and Veeky Forums because it fits all 3 boards. It's a franchise that includes card games and RPGs

Well yeah

Garrosh isn't a shaman, he's 100% focused on martial prowess

Thrall is a good warrior, but his real skills, and where he's put the most effort into mastery, is shamanism

>Care to explain? I've only played the first month of MoP

Kirin Tor and Sunreavers both had questlines going into the Throne of Thunder to steal shit.
Jaina gets the Thunder King's lightning power imbued in her staff. Lor'themar steals the Blood Golem and reverse engineers it, which is why you start seeing Mogu Blood Golems in BE armies in Legion (did we see any in Warlords?)

>(did we see any in Warlords?)
yes, when Lady Liadrin helps Exarch Maladaar protect Auchindoun