MTG Legacy Thread

Once a year, Legacy players gather to participate in a grand tradition: the creation of a new thread. It is celebrated by arguing about tiers, complaining about Miracles, and general shitposting about the lack of support from Wizards.

>Playing?
>Local meta?
>Silver bullet sideboard cards?
>Works in progress?

SCG is having a Legacy Open in Orlando on September 18th. Here's to hoping for a stream. Tiers will be posted next.

Other urls found in this thread:

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-stax-2/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Established Legacy - "Tier 1" decks
>Miracles
>Delver variants
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands
>Sneak n Show

Fairly Established Legacy - "Tier 2" decks
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>Nic Fit
>Enchantress

Developing Legacy - "Tier 3" decks
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Everything else

This is a work in progress so please suggest changes for next year's thread.

Aluren in there somewhere?

Maybe Food Chain?

I run two pyroblasts and a wipe away in my SB

Pyroblast are good in a lot of permission heavy matchups

Wipe away can get me out of the counterbalance top lock if I can trick them into putting 1 or 0 on top

Also the look on a painter players face when you pyroblast back is priceless

>Playing?
Black Cancer
>Local meta?
Storm, Jund, Miracles, Delver, D&T mainly
>Silver bullet sideboard cards?
This card against discard decks
>Works in progress?
Tuning the Stax deck.
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-stax-2/

Why couldn't it be an Eternal thread so I could gush about Daretti in Vintage? WHY?!

It's okay, there's enough room in this thread for you and that one other person playing Vintage.

Because Vintage (read: MUD) makes me sad and T1 Tangle Wire makes me want to commit suicide. Feel free to gush though.

>Cloister
This still makes me happy beyond belief. Is 4 mana too late? By that time someone has already stripped your hand with Cabal Therapy.

About to play on xmage if anyone is interested

>Playing?
B/R Reanimator
>Local meta?
Lands
>Silver bullet sideboard cards?
Ashen Rider / Tidespout Tyrant
>Works in progress?
Nothing.

I could use some advice on what is best to include in the ANT sideboard. Specifically for white weenies. Between dread of night, massacre, and disfigure, I'm inclined to run massacre since it has the potential to wipe stacked hate later on if I'm stuck durdling for a bit. But it gets blocked by gaddock. Dread of Night seems great for getting thalia and revoker gone and stay gone but won't deal with canonist or gaddock unless I have two copies. Additionally, it's just out there begging to be removed if I drop it sooner than later. Disfigure handles them all but only one and mom dissaproves.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Vintage Bros welcome.

What's a viable deck under $100?

>What's a viable deck under $100?

Dredge and then buy 4 Chinaman LEDs

I wish I could afford Mementor, but I enjoy Dredge too, so I guess that's fine.

>Playing?
blazing wish
>Local meta?
too much dnt, some miracles, one guy playing shardless jund, more enchantress than I'd expect to ever see, other normal stuff
>Silver bullet sideboard cards?
I play a wishboard, so I can grab free spells like ensnare or mindbreak trap as bullets
>Works in progress?
building turbo depths, all the cards are in the mail

Any other options?

what server?

Pauper is literally legacy for poor people. Don't knock it until you try it.

For Legacy, you'd be hard-pressed to find something that cheap. You could do monoblack extreme budget Pox, or 60 Island Scoop.

Dredge before LEDs is still around $200.

I have tried it. It is ridiculously low-power.

I guess I'll proxy up something to play with my friends.

Is there anything like XMage for Android?

you can use forge or even untap.in if you want.

CHINA

You shouldn't really have trouble with white weenies, if you can't kill them before they flood the board then youre probably doing something wrong

>It is ridiculously low-power.
Really? With consistent t4 kills off Burn, UB Teachings, Izzet Blitz, Delver and Boggles?

>Playing?
LED Dredge and Belcher, ordered Villa Zheng manabase for TES and will give it a spin next month.
>Local meta?
Pretty mixed, on any given day a combination of Grixis/RUG Delver, Shardless, Lands, Burn, Eldrazi, Jund, Infect, some Standstill variant(s) and ANT. No Miracles fortunately, although Shardless goes to time often enough too.
>Silver bullet sideboard cards?
Telemin Performance in Belcher wishboard for instakilling Lands and Storm and taking SNT's Emrakul or Griselbrand, both Reforge the Soul and Diminishing Returns for wheeling opponent out of hate cards and trying to hit Belcher in matchups where goblins won't do. Pyroclasm for Empty off the mirror or Storm, might swap it for Grapeshot though since I've had games where I've rebuilt a wish hand when an opponent was left to 4-6 life from Goblins and could've finished him off.

A fair point. I must be over thinking it.

What is the advantage of B/R over U/B, besides budget?

Are there any cheap-ish decks that fuck with Miracles? The meta at my shop is becoming pretty stagnant, and I want a deck so people stay on their toes.

atm I'm on UB reanimator, not the easiest matchup. Been thinking about manaless dredge, but I'm not sure how it fares against Miracles. I'm guessing it depends alot on the specific build in question.

How the hell do you use Untap.in? I can't get it to work.

The problem with Manaless is that without playing the pitch FoW build which costs about the same as regular LED Dredge without any competitive upside is that it folds to any and all sideboard bullets If Miracles digs a Rest in Peace by turn 3, the game's over. Burn is probably your best bet, just stick 4 Exquisite Firecraft to your side and you should be set, it's not like Miracles ever wins a race without the countertop setup, which you can power through if you sequence your plays correctly.

If you have cheap fatties laying around, apparently 12 Post takes a steaming dump on people running Miracles.

I actually own 4x Force of Will, so I could go blue dredge.

LED is unfortunately mad expensive right now, which is the reason why I would go manaless instead.

I'd rather not play burn.

The big mana decks should be effective, but I have so little of the pieces I'd rather not go that route. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only kind of decks people suggest that beat Miracles.

Nothing. I only did it for budget reasons.

I thought you could ue untap.in on android o well I guess theres still forge.

I think splitting legacy into tiers the same way modern does is a little misleading. There are tiers, to be sure, but I view it a little differently. They are less reflective of power level than in modern. Tier 1 is decks you need to be prepared to face at every tournament. Dredge is included in this, because it will get you if you're ill prepared. Everything else is tier 2, no tier 3. Decks you should know about. There are tons of them. And any time you play against one, it's likely piloted by someone who is devoted to the deck and thus an expert. So they stand a real chance of winning. There are a handful of decks that should be classified below this, but for the most part they are outdated lists, like The Mighty Quinn that haven't been relevant in years.

Honestly tiers just don't mean a shit, since people are using them in confusing manner ALL THE TIME. They just can't agree on one definition so might as well not use them at all. Same goes for archetypes; people just keep messing them up so you might as well not use them at all.

Imo it's just easier to look at established lists as decks to beat and keep everything else separate.

I meant I can't get it to work in general

That's kind of what I was trying to get at. There are a handful of highly popular decks that you can reasonably expect to play against at every tournament. Everything else is "established".

>Cloister
This is why you don't use cloister buddy, unless you like going -7 for no reason

At least if cabals discard you they'll end up in the Graveyard, but if your cloister gets destroyed you lose everything and it stays in the removed from play pile, utterly inaccessible and lost to the ages. Legend has it there are still some hands from Pro Tour games that have been kept face-down in a separate deck box never to be used or revealed to the light of day, like a foreboding crypt warning them to never include Cloister in their deck.

Hence why I put them in quotes. Legacy doesn't have tiers like Modern, more of "expect this" and "count on seeing this" and "you may see this".

>>removed from play pile
Haven't heard anyone refer to the exile zone like this in a looong time

>>utterly inaccessible
Technically false, but I like the dramatic effect.

Why not just refer to it as an indicator of metagame percentage, similar to the modern tiers? E.g. total, day 2 and online presence.

So what are the chances legacy gets some spicy tech in kaladesh?

Not sure, but hopefully there should be lots of exciting new artifacts in that set.

Just the same as any set.

2.6%, I reckon.

Metalcraft is returning. Screencap this.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised

>artifact themed block coming up
>clues a thing in previous block
>nothing with Metalcraft turned out busted the first time around
>easily scalable power level

Seems legit.

Its already been confirmed that theres no returning non evergreen mechanics

Tinker reprint when?

>Tier 1 is decks you need to be prepared to face at every tournament. Dredge is included in this, because it will get you if you're ill prepared.
Tier 1 is decks you're expected to face in a tournament. This does not include dredge.

>nothing with Metal craft turned out busted

Spot the storm player
Vintage MUD is the superior master race

Actually I think in large tournaments it's very reasonable to expect to face dredge. The very thing we were talking about is how tiers in legacy don't quite equate to tiers in other formats. I hesitate to call them "tiers" at all. But Dredge is a deck that warrants preparation in the form of sideboard slots. Therefore, everyone should be prepared to play against it at a given tournament. It is cheap and powerful vs unprepared opponents. It should be included in the "Group of Decks Every Legacy Player Should Be Prepared to Play Against", which is analogous to "Tier 1" in other formats.

Name one card.

Strong =/= broken.

Tiers are based on usage and results. It has always been that way. This is true for all formats. Legacy isn't unique in this regard

>But Dredge is a deck that warrants preparation in the form of sideboard slots.
No it doesn't because it doesn't see a lot of play.
Look at current lists of decks. No one is packing dedicated dredge hate, because players know that dredge is barely a thing anymore. And even if a player does face dredge, he can expect that he will only ever play against one in any given event.


> It should be included in the "Group of Decks Every Legacy Player Should Be Prepared to Play Against", which is analogous to "Tier 1" in other formats.

A player should learn how to play against dredge, but to prepare a sideboard for it? Hardly.

I 100% agree that you should have sideboard slots for dredge in the format of universal graveyard hate. Not only can dredge actually win if you don't prepare for it, some of the other cards are also great in other matchups

Yes, but you're generally playing universal graveyard hate with other decks in mind, it's just also happens to hit dredge.

Yeah that's my point, if you have a sideboard with no graveyard hate I'm sure your gonna end up in a bad spot at some point

I'm combing throuhg results on MTGtop8 and having a hard time finding decks that don't have some number of dedicated grave-haste cards. Decks that can reliably race usually don;t have it and that's about it. The fact that these hate pieces splash hate other decks like ANT doesn't mean they aren't put in the board with dredge in mInd. The points I'm trying to make is that there are tiers in legacy but anyone trying to get into the format should be concerned with a set of decks that is not precisely equal to set of decks that are most popular/powerful

I'm talking about dedicated dredge hate. The majority of lists plays graveyard hate, obviously, because so many decks use the graveyard in some way, but they're generally there for other decks.

>The fact that these hate pieces splash hate other decks like ANT doesn't mean they aren't put in the board with dredge in mInd.

It doesn't mean they had dredge in mind when they put it in their side either. They're mostly likely thinking about the most popular decks in the format, you know, decks you expect to see in an event.

what do you consider dedicated dredge hate if normal ass graveyard hate doens't fall into that category? I'm seeing Leyline of the Void, RIP, Containment Priest, Surgical Extraction, Grafdiggers Cage, etc in lots of decks. I realize these cards also hurt other decks. But the only common non-dredge deck that uses the graveyard in an amount substantial enough to warrant sideboarding that hate in is ANT. And Miracles isn't playing RIP for just the ANT matchup. That's wwhat Flusterstorm is for. Eldrazi isn't sideboarding 4 Leyline of the Void for the Storm Matchup. that's what maindeck Chalice and thorn fromthe board are for.

4c Loam is at least as established as Maverick, and certainly more established than enchantress. Also, Sneak and Show is not a tier 1 deck. Show variants haven't been very popular since dig got banned.

As a caveat I'd put Reanimator in the same category as drdge in decks you need to be prepared for. Heavily graveyard depedndant decks

Shops is life. Also t1 Tangle Wire is a sign of a bad shops player. You gotta get value out of your Tangle wires.

Grafdiggers Cage, LotV, Rip, are the best cards against dredge. Every deck that plays white plays rip. but Cage and LotV are cards that see less play. Surgical extraction isn't dredge hate as dredge can easily beat it. Containment priest is good too but thats more for show and tell decks.

> And Miracles isn't playing RIP for just the ANT matchup.
Lands, and really, because they can. RIP is good against a shit ton of decks.

>Eldrazi isn't sideboarding 4 Leyline of the Void for the Storm Matchup.
Lands.

Oh yeah. And MUD is a solid tier 2 deck.

Definitely faced dredge in Day 2 of GP Columbus. Also, you will always see dredge in local metas. It's relatively cheap and does neat, big things.

> Also, you will always see dredge in local metas. It's relatively cheap and does neat, big things.
I never see dredge in my local meta. They've all moved on to storm.

Spent some time wondering why you thought Liliana of the Veil qualified as grave hate. Then it hit me.

Lucky you. There is still too much dredge in my local meta. Not as bad as the hordes of burn, however.

Your meta must be new or something. Burn and dredge are rare around here. There's a lot of competitive Legacy players in my area.

Psh, tell that to developer team. A guy giving one mana at 1cmc is deemed to be too broken in standard.

Lands isn't exactly a common matchup either

Look at the metagame at mtgtop8. It's much more common than dredge, and you think they're sideboarding for dredge?

I don't get it. Please enlighten me.

It is fairly new. At major, statewide events we get better diversity, but dailies always have burn and always have dredge. I have to pack 2 warmths in the side of loam to survive.

Uhhh. Doesn't mtgtop8 count in mtgo results? And with quantity of those, they pretty much warp the entire meta on that site?

He thought LotV was referring to liliana of the veil instead of Leyline of the Void

You can view live events only for the metagame breakdown. Lands still take up a larger part of the metagame than dredge.

Fuck me. Didn't make that connection even under the context.

I made what any reasonable man would do and only checked major events.... Like you would expect that is significant compared to stagnant local metas and no, lands doesn't seem to have bigger metashare than dredge.

But it's just semantics and bottom line is you have to have graveyard hate in sideboard in legacy. For obvious reasons.

Dude, look at the metagame under major events closely. RUG Delver? Maverick? Stoneblade? There's no date cutoff.

Yeah, I'm just kidding here. It was the one with biggest dredge hits.

But something feels off with the mtgtop8 metashare anyway.

I'm rebuilding pic related to be current with today's metagame. Aside from minor cosmetic changes, I want to cut old decks and add in new ones. Eldrazi comes to mind as a new addition. Drop me some suggestions.

>wizards will never make another infect block
>wizards will never make another block of slivers that isnt shit.

I actually know a guy who built The Mighty Quinn recently.

We need more slivers. The legions kind.

Nic Fit in tier 2

dude stop posting this mark rosewater designed the infect mechanic and has stated how much he likes it. redditfags jizz about return to new phyrexia like once a week. it's happening.
slivers might not come back, but they're gay as fuck anyway, just like all tribal decks

>Wizards finally goes back to Phyrexia
>new keyword 'Corrupt' reads "This creature deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters."

that's literally just wither, you tard

Fuck, it is, isn't it.

To be fair, I can't think of a single Wither card off the top of my head that's played

>tfw been out of the loop and just looked this up
>tfw it is real

>wither: shadowmoor, 2008
>infect: scars of mirrodin, 2010

as much as I disagree with wotc's views on what's fun, they like infect at least.

How essential are rishardin ports for death and taxes? I own just about everything else in the deck and want to give it a spin