What would it take to kill different 40K units with real life weapons?

>My guess would be it would punch clean through the GK without doing a whole load of damage internally.

Grey Knight Power Armor (let alone Terminator Armor) is made up of multiple layers of Ceramite and Adamantium, both of which are ridiculously stronger than conventional steel and have in-canon taken heavy stubber rounds (anywhere between 30.06 to .50cal) and done little more than blow a crater in the armor.

Space Marines are stupidly hard to kill by our standards.

The survivability of various 40k units is really all over the place. Space Marines obviously being the big one here.

We have them surviving tank shells to the chest, but we also have them getting gunned down by a handful of homemade autoguns.

So, it depends on which 40k source material you're going by.

...

Watch the video, the .50 did NOT go through steel armor plating. So to kill a GK or even punch through its armor you would probably need kinetic perpetrators or recoil-less rifles.

I'm seeing GKs getting killed by a GAU-8 avenger cannon, the armor on them is comparable to actual tank armor.

I feel like Void Shields may be able handle a Nuclear blast. Though I'm definitely not certain

>Implying joining the Imperium is a bad thing
So long as they don't land, look at someone's phone and declare everyone heretics after SIRI asks them if they need assistance.

>Speed shooting with a bolter pistol

WWII battleships could survive direct nuclear blasts, think again.

So it would take a crit from an assault rifle to even deal damage.
What's a heavy stubber's damage line? We'll call that a standard machine gun, just not a .50 cal monster.

IIRC the Imperium is pretty lenient on heracy of lost human colonies provided they immediately abandon their heretical ways once the Imperium shows them the way.

>Hey! That's heretical! Stop that!
>Oh man, I had no idea. I'll stop.

They would, see the void shields used by titans and space faring ships.

>Implying joining the Imperium is a bad thing
Enjoy working 20 hours a day in a manufactorum

Aren't Space Marines and power armor insane over powered in most of the RPGs even by the fluffiest of standards? Juggling Basilisks level of OP

Depends, 40k IG autoguns are a larger caliber than the usual assault rifle rounds.

Void shields can stop shells the size of a house, traveling a good chunk of the speed of light.
They can also survive the same thing, but made of plasma.

It all depends on how much power the shield has. The ones on starships are much more powerful, but I'd imagine it could tank a nuclear blast, provided it wasn't a direct hit.

Fuck that shit, I'm becoming a machine priest.

Yeah, generally fringe worlds get a chance to reform unless they're into deep heresy like Chaos shit

Admittedly, 'reform' might be 'okay, all of you who are pure, go kill everyone who did something we don't like'

Well that depends what they'd turn the Earth into. If they demand we change anything at all that is. We might be told to demolish a bunch of our cities and become an agri world, make our cities much bigger to prepare for the fresh waves of space immigrants coming to fill HiveWorld 15,231, Korea and china got a head start there. Maybe Reinforce our planet and start conscripting because there is a Waagh coming. Our world isn't quite fucked up enough to not be considered for designation as a Pleasure world.

We're in a middle ground here and could really go in any direction.

Even so I'm sure the hull would be fine taking a few, the crew not so much but I bet there isn't much organic parts on them to make much of a difference.

I'm gonna need a source on that. The closest thing I've heard of is Operation Crossroads, which

Did not directly hit the targets (one of the two bombs dropped missed by over 600 meters, the other was "only" about 100 meters away from the targets when it detonated underwater)

Did sink the Arkansas, the closest BB, as well as several other ships besides.

Most importantly, these weren't hydrogen bombs. They had on the order of 20-30 kt yields, as opposed to modern warheads which pack about a thousand times that.

The hull is probably more vulnerable than the people.

The primary amount of damage that an atomic weapon does at close range is the huge amount of air pressure that the blast creates, and how it tends to smash its way through things.

Humans are squishy and filled with water, and are surprisingly resistant, we're much more so than things like steel or concrete to overpressure.

The #1 cause of death in the 2 historical a-bombings were from buildings falling on people.

Would....Would the Titan just be stuck in the left over crater?

Think about it. Titans aren't designed to climb and if the nuke was detonated at ground level the crater would probably be pretty deep.
Or what if the Titan got knocked onto it's back. Can Titans get back up?
Either way that's pretty hilarious.

>Tank armor
Isn't the GAU-8 woefully inadequate against modern tank armor? IIRC, it's really meant for fucking up motorized/mechanized infantry and light vehicles.

1d10+4 and it reduces armor on the target by 3

>Aren't Space Marines and power armor insane over powered in most of the RPGs even by the fluffiest of standards?
No, if anything I'd say they're underpowered. Chapter Masters have solo'd Bloodthirsters, and it's pretty much not possible for an RPG space marine to become that strong without breaking the game's rules for advancement.

It's hard to climb when your hands are guns

I am referencing Crossroads in which there were direct hits, it was concluded the surviving crew could limp the ship back to port.
And I will note Arkansas only sank due to the waves produced from the blast.
Your statement on modernbombs is also noted however titans of certain classes and makes likely sport meters or more of ceramite and adamantite.
Perhaps, the biggest problem is 40k materials don;t exist, I believe adamantine was said to be solid and not malleable until it hit it's melting point.
Not in the least, the GAU-8 fires 30mm depleted uranium rounds at 4,200 a minute at the least armored part of the tank, the top, the Gau-8 and by extension the A-10 were design with anti-tank roles in mind.

Can it shoot it's way out?

Dorf fortress says Adamantine has a density of 200kg/m^3. I mean dwarf fortress and 40K basically take place in the same universe.

Not sure. It's so heave any ramp made by shooting would probably just be flattened.

>30mm
Against modern tanks, 30mm barely tickles, even with that rate of fire against the top side. It might fuck treads and optics, but actually killing the vehicle and its crew will take bombs or missiles.

Are you daft?
youtube.com/watch?v=NvIJvPj_pjE
The GAU_8 is described as being lethal to tanks and all other armored vehicles, if it wasn't effective they wouldn't use it. It absolutely perforates tanks.

>58 is 30mm

I apologize, I misscatagorized a 25mm round as a 30mm. Here is the correction.

I'm assuming 52 and up could punch through space marine armor.

>I am referencing Crossroads in which there were direct hits, it was concluded the surviving crew could limp the ship back to port.

There weren't direct hits at Crossroads though. Able detonated way off target, and was an airburst, which they knew was ineffective against heavily armored targets. It's that test, by the way, that you got a "seriously damaged but could limp away to port), but that's from 2 BB that were about 5-600 meters from the target.

Baker got both Arkansas and Nagato,and Arkansas was totally unrepairable: Hell, the only reason it wasn't completely sunk was that the battleship was longer than the lagoon was deep. And even those were about 200meters off. And yes, water pressure crushed the Arkansas, but in ANY hypothetical explosion trying to wreck some huge metal war machine, it's going to either be air pressure or water pressure that does the destruction; the blast itself is mostly heat and while you might melt the target, you're not going to crush it to pieces. The water pressure is much more damaging to a BB than air pressure, due to the armor being considerably heavier up top, and the wave speed actually being higher than it is in air.

A direct, point to contact hit? Way more powerful.

Shown here is what an A-10 does to an armored target.

Also the lesser round in the previous pic is a 30.06.

Fuck I forgot pic.
But damn it don't underestimate the A-10!

I would argue that 500 meters is a direct hit, nuclear weapons are not exactly precision.
And while I will concede water pressure being the larger threat to a BB I don't believe air pressure posses a significant threat.

I would be interested in the effects of a direct blast.

>Now, friends, we SHOOT OUR WAY THROUGH THE PLANET!

An RPG is likely to kill a Mehreen if it hits them in the chest. It is unlikely to kill them if it strikes their shoulder pad, which tanks stuff like plasma blasts, but will leave that section of their armour in extremely poor condition.

Be aware that even if something doesn't breach the armour, Marines have been killed by pure impact force before.

They'd be extremely difficult to bring down but not impossible.

This document:
dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a522397.pdf

demonstrates rather mediocre results. Three tanks were catastrophically damaged and one damaged and silenced, but three were merely immobilized. This test also assumed the tanks had no concealment or cover, and that the tanks and their support units remained immobile. Ratio of penetrations to direct impacts was 0.35--pretty low. And these were meant to represent T-62s. T-80s and M1 Abrams would barely even notice. The tanks the GAU-8 was designed to kill went obsolete decades ago. These days, actual tank busting requires AGMs and ATGMs.

As I recall there was a book that had SM subjugating a not-modernearth planet and they tanked RPG rounds and tore tanks open, it comes down to what kind of RPG you have I suppose, RPG-7 is shit RPG-29 is where it's at.

>As I recall there was a book that had SM subjugating a not-modernearth planet and they tanked RPG rounds and tore tanks open
If true that's hilarious. I can see it now
>Hey Bob, nerds on the internet are saying that Modern Earth could beat the Imperium
>What? No way!
>Yeah!
>Well... LET'S HAVE THE IMPERIUM CONQUER EARTH, THAT'LL SHOW 'EM!

You'd need relatively heavy weapons, like anti-armor (think like an AT-4 or RPG-27) to penetrate a Space Marine's armor (assuming its similar to that of modern Western MBT's).

Remember that the thermal radiation from a nuclear explosion is roughly as hot as the sun.

On the other hand, there's a book where Grey Knights get literally crushed by a ton of feudal knights charging over them.

Generally speaking, Marine armour gets pierced by stuff that clearly does not pack the punch of an RPG.

What book is that?

I ask you again, are you daft?
Of 174 rounds issued 90 struck the targets, now seeing as you don't know what you're talking about you must understand that the prodigious rate of fire of the GAU-8 allows only so much ammunition to be carried which is thoroughly dispensed in several seconds of firing emptying the entire payload on a select are, like a shotgun's spread, of that no known armored vehicle (at least enemy vehicles) can survive as your pdf attests (merely immobalised do you even understand what that means? that tank is done and the crew is likely dead) this is not even factoring in the bomb load of the A-10. I can not speak for it's effectiveness against the abrams as the two have never been faced on a range (to my knowledge) and the armor specs are classified.

>I would argue that 500 meters is a direct hit, nuclear weapons are not exactly precision.

Nuclear weapons can be as precise as your aiming apparatus. They're just a payload.

From a b-29 in 1946? No, not very precise at all.

Loaded up into a modern artillery piece? You can drop one on a dime.

>And while I will concede water pressure being the larger threat to a BB I don't believe air pressure posses a significant threat.

Well, again, it is if you put it close enough and have enough force to generate enough overpressure. I'm not sure about the exact ratio of concrete to the sort of steel they use on battleships (let alone futuristic materials) but a groundburst W-78 obliterated a number of concrete bunkers about 1 km from impact site. No, it's not as good as going underwater, but air pressure can still fuck you up lots, if you've got enough of it.

I do not recall.
40k is not known for consistency.

But is precision necessary?

>but three were merely immobilized.
>merely
>immobilized

The types of things that physically immobilize tanks are the types of things that royally fuck up the crew in the process.

Also, mission-kills are pretty damned good too.

If it bleeds it can die, the real question is if we would be still alive after killing them.

>were merely immobilized

Tank is now nothing more than a weak gun emplacement, crew is dead.

Shame we only immobilised them, what a terrible result.

Well, that depends on your usage.

If you're aiming it at a hypothetical superweapon that has futuristic armor unknown to modern science, it might just be. Square-cube law means that blast damage falls off sharply.

>implying there aren't far better worlds
You need to travel the Imperium more.

I'm not gay. I would never fuck a dude. A girl wearing a Ciaphas Cain mask on the other hand...

>So the IG is basically the earth military with slightly better armor and a lot more reinforcement
>talking about a group who bum rushes a fortified position.
>any modern military could take any amount of 40K units.
>implying that the modern military wouldn't absolutely crush an imperial guard regiment

True.

>knows nothing about the IG the post

>I'm not gay. I would never fuck a dude. A girl wearing a Ciaphas Cain mask on the other hand...
Replace "fuck a dude" with "fuck a girl" & you would have convinced me that Amberly posts on Veeky Forums.

...

>no known armored vehicle
The test clearly demonstrates that several vehicles were not "catastrophically damaged." An immobilized vehicle is also not necessarily combat-ineffective, as an immobile tank is still a heavily armored pillbox. Also, note that out of those hits, only 35% actually penetrated, which is shoddy performance no matter which way you spin it.

>bomb load
You discussed the GAU-8. At no point did I say that bombs were ineffective. In fact, an earlier post straight up said that bombs and missiles would be more effective against tanks. One tank received 6 significant impacts out of 12 total, and all of those were described as minor (5% M-kill, 10% F-kill). One tank received 3 "insignificant impacts" and nothing else. One tank also suffered an M-kill purely from a destroyed fuel tank. Repair that and it's back in business.

The test described the GAU-8 as effective against tanks "similarly" armored to the T-55, -62, etc. And mind you, this test was already tilted in favor of the A-10 due to immobile targets who lacked cover and concealment. Mobile targets would likely record fewer hits and penetrations, especially if they were sensible and sought cover/concealment.

Also remember that this was the 1970s. Modern MBTs with modern support units would have a very different fate, especially since they would likely be faster, better-armored, and be backed up by better AAA, MANPADS, and sensors. Those 30mm rounds are slightly bigger than a Bradley's rounds, and those would likely do little against an M1 or T-80.

I'll concede that. 70% mission kills is fucking great, and it achieved good F-kills.

>any modern military could take any amount of 40K units.
>implying that the modern military wouldn't absolutely crush an imperial guard regiment

yeah no,

Bolters are 20mm, well actually 19.05 mm but same difference, and they don't always penetrate power armor with hits despite being made of heavier super-material and having super-propellant.

Anything less then a Autocannon and you're not gonna do jack to a marine in power armor.

The concept of artillery born nukes is long since dead, they have to be put in missiles not launched as shells now.

Shouldn't be a problem in the 40th millenium.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_(tank)#Nuclear_tests

How many Krak Grenades do we need?

True, but it's a practical problem, not a theoretical one, born out of the fact that guided munitions are even more accurate, and it's not like you're going to worry too much about cost per shot when firing an atomic weapon.

I'm not hugely familiar with 40k, but given the relative lack of guided munitions, I always assumed there was some kind of mega-ECM floating around everywhere, hence the idea of a gun delivered nuke.

On the other hand there's a book where the Blood Angels run a train on on your mother, don't bother asking for the title of the book, or any further information though, that's unimportant.

>and those would likely do little against an M1 or T-80
Scratch this, I forgot about Gulf War reports of Bradley-on-Abrams friendly fire. A GAU-8 could fuck up an Abrams if it hit the rear engine grille. But that just brings up the question of what the fuck the Abrams and its support units are doing to let the A-10 get in that position with an effective angle of attack.

Except we actually did make artillery-launched nukes, and planned to deploy them across Germany for WW3 against the Soviets. We even designed a nuclear shell to be launched from the Iowas.

Unless you're just talking about practicality, in which case yeah missiles are the best, especially for MAD.

>I always assumed there was some kind of mega-ECM floating around everywhere, hence the idea of a gun delivered nuke
More that anything needing cogitators are in the hands of the Mechanicus, and even they are wary about computers going full Men of Iron on them.

Don't quote me on this but I've heard that the US millitary is retiring the A-10/GAU-8 because it's not effective enough.

I remember that book. It's the same one where your dad deepthroats the Swarmlord.

Titans could withstand a nuke. I think you under estimate the reason for having a Titan, as they are literally walking wmds that can survive a barroom brawl with other wmds.

Apart from having anti missile defence capabilites, their void shields would absorb the icbm. While multiple missiles in quick succession would overwhelm the point defences and the shields the land around it would be a wasteland and uninhabitable for centuries.

Tau get guided shit, smart missiles are pretty prominent in their armoury, some muhreen AA tanks as well, but on the whole the imperium's tech is run by people whose idea of innovation is adding a verse to the holy "turn machine on" rituals so the lack of guided missiles is 100% down to them losing the ability to mass produce that shit many millennia ago (for the rest Eldar prefer space magic over computers to guide their shots, chaos is imperium tech+demons, nids fire living bugs, orks are stupid, necrons have teleportation shenanigans so don't care too much), not that smart missiles don't exist.

That when you just blast a new path.

Where there are no roads you make new ones.

There were proposals to retire the A-10, partly due to obsolescence and partly due to the fact that its parent company is defunct and production of new airframes and parts is impossible. However, last I heard, the Air Force was unable to properly convey (or unable to convince Congress) why the A-10 was ineffective, why it needed replacement, and what would replace it.

But if you really think about it, the A-10 really is due for retirement. It's too slow and low-flying attacks have long since been rendered obsolete by modern MANPADS. Its electronics are obsolete and replacement would be horrendously expensive. Modern tank-busting and CAS are more effectively provided by PGMs, which can be carted around by F-16s, F-15Es, and F-35s, all of which still have operating parent companies and likely functioning logistical chains. A-10 airframes are also allegedly old and very worn out, and the cost of replacing all of them would be astronomical since you'd need new factories, new machinery, and more workers. Also, aren't A-10s incompatible with some of the Air Force's bombs or missiles?

Most of those points are moot when any CAS it's likely to fly in the foreseeable future is against durkhas with some toyota technicals as their armour, even if Iran gets put back on the table they'll make mincemeat out of T-72 and BMPs. Which is why the Air Force was unable to persuade congress to allow them to spend more money on some shiny new toys.

Earth would definitely be a pleasure planet (Our Earth, not Holy Terra).

We have lush forests, a breathable atmosphere, friendly wildlife, bountiful food, mild winters and cool summers, and pre-existing infrastructure. You literally could not get a better pleasure world.

The problem is, how long can the US keep them flying? The airframes can't hold up forever and there are a finite number of spares to cannibalize. And what happens if shit hits the fan? What if Chinese and/or Russian brinkmanship escalate into war? Sure, the US could probably stomp both with ease as-is, but the A-10 would still suffer badly. The Gulf War already demonstrated that the A-10 could not keep up with the demands of then-modern warfare.

Scout:
>Any decent gun can punch through it with fmj otherwise Aim for the head, or exposed limbs. Or grenades. Anything would work

Space Marine:
>Heavily armored. I would assume it would take at least 20mm to even scratch it. If that. Grenades would not be useful, except maybe flashbangs? I think the eye holes are vulnerable, but doubtful. A rocket launcher should damage it. I also think that any explosion hitting the head would at least incapacitate the space Marine? Just from shaking the head around.
An anti tank gun would probably take their head off though.

Rhino
>anti tank, might penetrate, same for rockets. If not I would kick it up to the next minimum 40mm ammo. Depleted uranium rounds for extra oomph. Any tank with a 120mm would probably blow it up bonus for using anything piercing.

Land raider:
>Small arms worthless, a tank might bust it if it had a strong enough armor piercer. Aircraft could drop anti tank bombs to take care of it. Might take a few though. The 150mm+ artilleries might be strong enough to crack the armor too.

Imperial knights
>Maybe the tanks could deal with it. Not sure

Titans:
>Long range missile barrages, artillery, and if that didn't work, a nuke would finish the job...I don't see it moving much after being nuked, at the least the drivers would be dead from radiation poisoning. But it seems like a last resort since it would screw up the planet.

Of course the imperium could just destroy us with their superior firepower, manpower, and access to space...

f course the imperium could just destroy us with their superior firepower, manpower, and access to space...

Russian cosmonauts used to have guns. Shotgun>Imperium fleet.

Oh and terminators..
>Anti tank rounds for sure or just a tank itself. Plus anything bigger. Obviously

>nukes and titans
Wouldn't Warlord and Imperator void shields keep such Titan models safe? Also, why would the AdMech build machines without radiation protection? If a Titan can be built to withstand virus bombardments and the ensuing firestorms (HH: Galaxy in Flames), then surely it can be built with a sensible amount of radiation protection.

Well until they physically can't keep them flying anymore then the airforce wont get any money to replace them. In case of war with Russia or China they wouldn't send the A-10 on missions until after the initial stomping had happened and mopping up pockets of resistance was all that was left, which is also probably the phase of war that most of the CAS will be needed in, certainly in the case of China where no ground invasion will happen until after the war had been all but decided, in Russia Europe will have to deal with CAS without A-10s for a while but Russian ground based AA is legitimately top of the world so no plane will be that effective until after the back of their army has been broken. And all that is only if it somehow stayed a conventional war rather than being a case of lobbing ICBMs at each other.

..can't deny that watching Boris drunkenly scream in Russian while shooting the drones or scouts who board the space station.

>глyпo гaллюцинaция ocтaвить Бopиca oднoгo

I don't know a huge amount about the rules for DW and such, but in the Ultramarines novels a marine lifts a laden truck out of a ditch without any appreciable effort. Not even sure he was wearing his armour.

I would guess the Titans shields are designed to block radiation and other toxic elements but if the shields were bombarded by missiles and failed, the nuclear explosion would tear it up, and possibly cause a tear in the Titan in which the radiation would penetrate the machine. At the least, it would be irradiated and the heat from the blast should fuck it up somewhat.

Checkmate God-Emperor.

I wonder why we don't just use turboprops for dealing with CAS against low-tech targets.

They're fast enough to avoid shitty dumb-fire AA that those guys have anyways. They're cheap as fuck relative to A-10s or any more modern multirole fighter. And it gives an excuse to bring Bearcats and Tigercats back.