/wmh/ Warmachine and Hordes General

That sounds like a great idea. I'll have to use the lists I'm currently building/painting though as I'm in the middle of faction hopping.

(Haley 2) Major Victoria Haley [+25]
- Centurion [17]
- Thorn [13]
- Defender [16]
- Dynamo [18]
- Squire [5]
Journeyman Warcaster [4]
- Sentinel [8]
Arcane Tempest Rifleman [4]
Arcane Tempest Rifleman [4]
Gun Mage Captain Adept [5]
Hutchuck, Ogrun Bounty Hunter [6]

(Stryker 1) Commander Coleman Stryker [+30]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
- Centurion [17]
- Cyclone [13]
- Stormwall [39]
Gun Mage Captain Adept [5]
Journeyman Warcaster [4]
- Sentinel [8]
Tempest Blazers (min) [11]
Captain Arlan Strangewayes [4]

I'd drop Stryker1. Here's my thought process:

1) You can't drop Nemo3. He'd autolose against Haley2. Dynamo negates basically all of your ranged damage. Not being able to TK hurts, but Time Bomb still works and a double alpha strike combined with endless assassination opportunities should make it a pretty easy game.
2) Thus I think you need to drop Siege and honestly I think he'd also be the right choice against Stryker1. I think I'll be able to get rid of the Lances somewhat easily, though the Blazers will be obnoxious as fuck. As all my boxes are conentrated into two high-arm targets I don't think your feat would be that devastating. It'd be an interesting game.

Any advice on those lists is also much appreciated. I know I'm fucked against Wormwood, but so are many. I think I'll be able to take Khador and Ret, somewhat depending on their lists. Legion will be interesting; I'm not sure I can survive Abby2. Cygnar mirror will also depend a lot on the list, but I don't think there's anyting that would 100% fuck me over. Mercs I can't really say; Kingmaker is scary, but maybe Haley2 can take it; Bart's armorspam will be a problem. The other factions don't matter.

Games not dead yet, just everyone who played Cryx MkII is busy trying to put together a Khador or Ret army.

Not me, I'm putting together a Mercenaries army.

any one i should tell him not to touch / both with? - also thanks for the response.

Eh. I'm still playing Cryx for the time being. Bit of an uphill battle, and it's definitely different than it was. Delivery is more of a challenge, but if you get there, you still win. Been having fun with Morty, Skarre2, and Scavs.

The people who played them for the FOTM-value, yes. I think stock in Cryx will rebound a bit after one or two errata cycles and the faction has had some time to figure itself out.

The real question is Skorne.

>Don't touch model

Destor.
Nayl.

Ah Hyperion is good to if he want to buy the Clossal, namely with Ravyn, Issy and Kae mainly.

So, has Elara turned out to be the filthy rapist people were predicting her to be?

Me: You're right in that I would drop siege, but I was surprised that you'd drop Stryker. Between the lists, I was also surprised to hear you say you could handle the lances easily. They'd be my AS target for the first half of the game, harying your forces. 13/20 with 5 boxes and a 13" charge or 16" advance and shoot. Reposition means I get to sit outside your charge ranges until I get to alpha something.
I assume you'd have to run into senario and feat preemptively to stay relevant. I just have to wait out your feat.

I just don't see the cyclone making it's points back in the match, either.

Actually, I feel that the weakness in both your lists is a lack of ranged threats as well as a lack of threat projection. It makes me feel that you'd hate to see jack spam or gun lines. What are your plans for Ossyan, Vyros 2, Khador in general, Amon, Syntherion, or Legion?

Halberdiers! Halberdiers!

Their crazy threat while retaining durability as they stage is a key component of Ret's ability right now.

...sigh.

>I get it, designing counterpunch factions is HARD
>and you get to that point where you are weeks from release and it just isn't working
>but WTF with just pushing it out, going full orwell when people start noticing you've turned their stuff into a mound of turds, and moving on to something else?

I think in the Siege list the Lances are the easiest element to get rid of. The Blazers are incredibly mobile, but they have to be very defensive with all the shooting jacks. The Stormwall should be able to get rid of two Lances per turn with a little help from the GMCA. Don't forget Stryker1 has Snipe. The Cyclone threats 21" and the Stormwall threats 23". Trading my feat for either the Alpha or 2-3 scenario points sounds like a good deal to me. I'm not saying it would be easy, but it's definitely playable.

>Ossyan
I'll assume Discordia, 1 more Jack, 2x Stormfall, Riflemen and Invictors. I'd drop Stryker. The Cyclone can keep 1-2 units at bay by itself. Using Snipe on him, none of his units can advance/assault into shooting range without getting POW12 to the face. That requires careful placement to make work though. The Blazers can remove silly amounts of Infantry and are probably my other Snipe target in that matchup. Under Feat I should be able to weather his feat and once the lines close, there's not all that much he can do. All in all it's a game that hinges 100% on movement and terrain layout.

>Vyros2
He's played with 2x Sentinels and a bunch of Jacks? That's going to be one tough nut to crack, especially as that is something Stryker1 will also have to do. I guess I'll have to whittle him down while cockblocking him with the Centurion. I'll honestly have to play this mathup to evaluate it.

>Khador
I'm assuming Team Rocket, Behemoth, +2 Jacks and Snipers. Either Irusk2 or Vlad1 combined with something else. It really depends on what that "something else" is. If it's jack spam I'l drop Haley, because I think control is still the best answer Cygnar has against RM skews; especially now that a lot of the stuff we hate is disruptable/can have its Cortex punched out. Otherwise it's Stryker, cause he plays better into Vlad/Irusk, basically the same way he plays into Ossyan. But in all honesty, Khador is a problem for that you can only CONT.

be so prepared for. Even getting a 40% matchup against Khador is already pretty good.

>Amon
He will usually bring ~6 heavies. I'll definitely drop Haley2. If I can get rid of his mechanics the game should actually be pretty easy. I outthreat him, I can freely take systems away from his jacks (up to 9 damage to a column of my choice per turn), I can cripple their Cortices with ease. Either the choir does anti-ranged or anti-magic on the advance. In the first case I can do shenannigans with TK and time bomb while still shooting his jacks with the Riflemen. In the second case I can get 2 rounds of shooting out of the Defender and 1 out of Dynamo while still getting the double alpha, though this might be risky scenario-wise depending on who goes first.

>Syntherion
I can't really say. Nobody plays Convergence around here and even in national events they're a rare sight.

>Legion
Depends. Lylyth3 should be doable with Haley2, as long as I can keep her safe. Hellmouths should be easy to deal with via ATGM+Riflemen+TempAccell, assuming the terrain doesn't favor him too much. Abby2 will be a problem. If I can deny Alpha Hunter on turn 2 it should be fine, and I think I should be able to get the Martyrs with the way my list threats. Again, depends a LOT on terrain.

To anyone saying the game is dead, name one miniature wargame on Warmahordes scale which is more popular and isn't made by games workshop.

That's awfully specific. You worded it pretty well to rule out stuff like XWing.

Because X-wing is very niche game that has a huge brand following. I'm looking for something that's popular because it's good and consists of a bunch of dudes ramming into other dudes. No homo.

Then you're out of luck. All good mini games are skirmishes.

>All good mini games are skirmishes
Infinity and... infinity? Malifaux is ugly as sin, unbalanced but quite fun. Guild ball is amazing but only played by like 5 people in an abandoned factory somewhere in bongland. That's it.

Infinity is probably the closest but is usually on a much smaller scale. Still, great game. Warmahordes is in a weird spot scale wise between Warhammer and smaller skirmish games.

That said, Warmahordes is great outside of the stupid Uber competitive meta. Relax, play for fun and wait 6 months for the meta to settle and for the first few erratas to fix the random handful of broken models. Once things settle the game will be much better competitively

Sure, why not.

War Room Army

Trollblood - Ragnor

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

Bunker - Steamroller Objective

Ragnor Skysplitter, the Runemaster - WB: +30
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 4
- Mulg the Ancient - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Troll Axer - PC: 10
- Troll Bouncer - PC: 9

Troll Whelps - 5 Whelps: 4
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 3
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5

Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Trollkin Warders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10

War Room Army

Trollblood - World Ender v2

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

Madrak Ironhide, World Ender - WB: +28
- Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 4
- Troll Axer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Troll Bouncer - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Rök - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)

Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5
Horthol, Long Rider Hero - PC: 8
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 3

Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20

---

Specifically against those Cygnar lists I'd probably go with Ragnor. Almost impossible to kill at range, takes punches and punches back super hard. Should be a pretty good game

>That's it.
That's not even close to "it". There are dozens of 30mm-ish scale miniatures games out there right now with fantasy/sci-fi themes. Besides the big guys from GW and PP, obvious ones like infinity, malifaux, and guildball, you've got Mercs, Warpath & KoW, Wild West Exodus, Dystopian Legions, Wrath of Kings, Kingdom Death, Darklands, and Kensei... that's just things I've played or seen demo'd this past year. Add to that dozens of dead-but-still serviceable games like Dust, Confrontation, Hell Dorado and the like, plus a thriving fanmade/indy rules market, and you'll realize we're really spoiled for choice. And that's not digging into other scales, even closely related ones like 15mm.

Most of the above are/were not very successful, but the point is there is plenty of competition out there for the likes of WMH.

> All good mini games are skirmishes
This claim is just ridiculous. Maybe you're trying to say that the 30mm scale works best for skirmishes? Larger scale games may not have as big a following, but they're certainly doing OK. The success of things like Dropzone Commander and Dystopian Wars is testament to that.

hey /wmh/ im just getting back into the game after a long hiatus towards the end of mark. 2 now that I have a place to play again.

my question is this, I play cryx and im only just now realizing the full extent of the shafting, what are some good models to get to flesh out and add some variety to my game. iv got 1 unit of Mechanithralls, 1 Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls, 2 death rippers, 1 defiler, DJ, 1 unit of blood witches, a slayer, aiakos and a war witch siren, nightmare, denny 1 and 2, venethrax, Asphyxious 2, a Skarlock Thrall, 1 unit of Bile Thralls,1 unit of Cephalyx Overlords, a night wretch and a raider captain.

for warcasters I was thinking of grabing either denny 3,scavourus, or skarre 1 and/or 2.

for units I was thinking of grabing si\ome raiders, blackbane, some of the attachments (hag, seawitch maybe a brute or two for the thralls) im trying to stay way from the banes right now.

as for the jacks id like to either grab one of the gun platform crabjacks and maybe something with a bit more punch like a corrupter or maybe a reaper, maybe some of the winged bonejacks or the stalker so I can stick it with aiokos.

any thoughts?

Any idea why the Old Witch is considered sub-par now? I think she looks great with her bonus light jack, spelllist, battlegroup apparation and decent control feat. She makes any jack better with threat extension and has spells to support infantry, along with other great abilities. So why the "Meh" stamp?

Eh, the Destors are good in the Vyros2 Horse Mountain list, but a) that list is pretty much the only one they're in, and b) it's pretty expensive money-wise, especially with 2 units of 'em. I've also seen Nayl in those lists, too, but I don't know how useful he ends up being.

She's been considered subpar since mki ended.

She's very vulnerable to being killed. Gorman is no longer a easy prowl bot for her, the support that she wants got expensive. It's also in part with Zerkova 1 getting massively buffed.

Gunlines in general are also stronger so people just aim and shoot through the feat. The steamroller scenarios in general having easier to contest zones also doesn't help her since by the time she pops it, people will be standing in the zone anyway.

I fucking miss destruction.

There's not a niche for her anymore in competitive pairings. She's my favorite caster, but I understand why no one will play her.

I never see Khador's Assault Commando's in lists or even mentioned, are they really that bad? They look like cool dudes.

When was the last time you played Malifaux?

It's easily one of the most balanced skirmish games out right now.

Siege/Nemo3 here, aren't you a little worried about e-leaps and lightning generator attacks? As a heads up, if you didn't know, e-leaps and their ilk aren't attacks and ignore the stone bearer's self sac. I feel like Nemo could take out most all your infantry with little retaliation unless you feat to save them, which leaves you vulnerable to his shooting the rest of your list.

And the other cygnar player, i think, would drop Haley into that. Haley's feat trades better than Ragnor's, and TK can pull things out of the dig in spell. That, plus the gun mage snipers killing 1.5 warders per round.

It's probably just me, though. I feel like I'm expecting to get shot off the table, and that's the only thing scaring me at the moment. Your list would probably give me way more trouble than I think it would, but I'm not seeing it. It's what I get for fighting Ret too often.

I do see the purpose of the models in the list, though. Fire eaters for infantry clearing, warders and the bouncer to shield guard. Lanyssa and the axer add 4" of charge range, and there isn't much the mauler or mulg can't kill if they reach their target. Ragnor seems to be there for the str buff and delivery.

If I may ask, what's with the very similiar lists? Was it intentional and you feel those are trollblood's tried and true models or are you somewhat new to the faction and were limited by your current collection of models?

5 people?

Playing Guild Ball?

There was a period in this year where every WMH-ite in my area was deathly afraid of the GB people taking over.

They had nearly all the tables all the time and we're often scheduled to play around the same time as the WMH folk were.

It's died down as summer had gone on and WMH has rexivered a bit but the fervor is stronk.

The truth if the matter is there are other games, and alternatives are everywhere. I've never had this easy of a time finding games for other systems and WMH was my first and only system for so long.

It's such a nice relief to not feel all doom when something goes wrong in WMH because I can just play other games and not worry so much about it.

Hell it kept me sane during MKII. Should keep me sane un MKIII

I've been playing Trolls for a long time and right now I feel like these are some of the best models available. I ran this at a recent event and did ok (I lost to ret on like a 35ish% assassination). I ended up running the similar lists since I haven't locked down a Calandra list I really like yet and want to enjoy Madrak before he gets nerfed into the ground.

Anyway, against Cygnar Ragnor is pretty hard to remove. He gets dug in and and is really hard to remove with guns. Even without the feat you have to chew through armor 20+ beasts with armor 21 shield guards behind them.

And yeah, electro leaps suck for the stone, it's just something you have to play around as Trolls. The only real option I have is to spread out and place very specifically. You can mitigate some leaps by putting the grunts other random models near your likely initial targets. I know it's not a great answer but 'git gud' is the best thing to mitigate losses to Cygnar lighting shenanigans.

Not saying I'll win every time, but I think it'll be a good game and Ragnor is rough match up for Cygnar.

As a troll player I enjoy dropping Madrak into most if not all cygnar lists as of recent. The only list I've been iffy against is Striker as he out threats and Lancers kill whatever they touch so there's that. Kara and Siege i've found detest the amount of relevant models you put on the table with Madrak and Haley dislikes an unkillable caster that undoes TK with a warpath.

*Destor Thane

FTFY. Destors are worlds better than the thane.

Trying to get my Legion fix on. I was playing around in Conflict Chamber and it looks like if I get the Legion All in One box to go with the Battle group I just bought, make the second Neraph a Seraph and make the Heavy Beast a Carnivean I can have enough models to build a good number of lists for a long time. If I go this route, what else should I pick up?

[Spoiler] I really want to play Vayl1 [/spoiler]

What's the most durable faction other than Khador? I feel like putting something beefy together without being scorned for playing the same stuff everybody and their mother plays.

I really wish someone near me played Trollbloods. I have precious little experience with them.

Did you mean Lancers, the 'jack, or Lances, short for Stormlances? I never thought of Lancers as super potent melee threats, even with Positive Charge.

Isn't TK mostly used offensively to pull enemies into threat ranges or to clear charge lanes? Rarely did I use it to turn something around to deny a charge. Also, doesn't TKing Madrak still work for that purpose? Warpath specificies warbeasts getting the free 3" advance.

Bonus Question: if they do nerf Madrak 2, how do you think they'll do it? Reduce Grim Salvation's range? Put a per turn limit on Rathrok's Awakening? Change his feat?

Trolls can get pretty beefy with Doomy3 and Ragnor etc.

They are only good against lists where their immunities are relevant.

Strakhov makes good use of them because he can give them stealth, which combined with their immunities and armor can make them very difficult to remove.

Outside of Strakhov, they're a decent choice as a sideboard option for competitive pairings because they can be very good in the right situation (and very bad in every other situation).

They're probably better as a min unit with WAs than as a full unit.

75pts list critique time

Borka
Rok
Mauler
Stone+CA
Champs+CA
Fennblades+CA
Chronicler
Champ hero
Fennblade kithkar

Raiders with UA should be your first pickup. Also probably the Withershadow combo as they have basically replaced the skarlock for the most part. Bane warriors are decent if your caster can deliver them.
Jacks wise the Stalker is great and definitely worth getting, also look into Barathrum and Wrongeye for heavies that don't get shot to death.
Solo's wise you may want to look into the machine wraith now that there are jacks everywhere.
Casters wise conventional says to put Gaspy 2 and Denny 2 on a high shelf and leave them till they get errata. Skarre (particularly eSkarre) goes best with a Kraken (or two). Ihave played the most games of Mk3 with Shade 1 somehow and he's been doing work. Scavvy looks strong and is next on my list to get probably with Croes for fun with TK. Gaspy 1 and 3 have been ok so far but I've not had many games with them.

As far as Convergence goes, I think you're more likely to see either Mother or Father anyways, though Syntherion drops into damn near everything still.

Looking at your lists though, I honestly feel comfortable dropping either of them into you.

You don't have the cracking you need against almost any Lucant list, especially Haley. He's just going to brick up and walk towards you, and there's not a whole lot you can do to stop him. If he wins the roll and goes second to ensure you can't score early, I don't know if there's anything you can do barring hope for dice spikes.

Stryker1 is the thing where it's basically a mirror match, except Lucant has a better spell list. Practically everything in a Lucant list is steady or doesn't care about being knocked down, we have roughly the same feats, and Lucant has mass upkeep removal for AS.

As far as Mother goes, her ranged threat is simply too real. She's going to dominate your jacks so she can kill them or move them out of the way so she can kill your caster. Her ranged threat is pretty insane as well, which is a problem for you. Against Stryker1, I likely either just Backlash your Stormwall and force you to engage or die, or just trade up a heavy and then force you to come to me. Backlash also removes that Journeyman super quickly unless you straight up keep that Sentinel from coming up the field.

They're a lot better at their intended role, which is killing infantry, and they can kind of actually threat against heavier stuff now instead of being pillowfisted as fuck.

Their problem is just that infantry isn't getting played.

If the Rifle Corp weren't so damn amazing, I think they'd see play with Irusk2.

So only trolls and khador are the hard stuff?

Skorne lost a bunch of its hard via the Krea nerf and lack of theme forces. You can brick up with beasts and agonizers with the right lock though (namely Morghoul1, Xekaar)

Convergence likely comes in as the hardest faction in the game still, even if Mk3 took away some of the nastiest parts of it.

I disregarded his opinion when he said the game was ugly. The models are the reason why most of the people I know who play got into it. Hell it's why I got into it.

I'm guessing he's still stuck in 1e with the metal sculpts (which ranged from decent to yeah pretty fugly)

There is always like 2 people who say it's dead but I can walk into my LGS and there is at least 15 people playing WM/H. Mark3 is my lord and saviour.

There's just nothing to talk about right now. New casters were boring, and people are watching and waiting to see when and if the balance errata will drop.

Legion scrub, take my advice with a grain of salt

>Angelius because fuck your armor
>Typhon because fuck your everything
>2x Deathstalker because snap fire and snipe
>Forsaken because it's a super shepherd in a pinch, a punchy solo more often than not, and a nuclear bomb if your opponent ignores it
>Shepherd because shepherd
>2x Hellmouth because they're outstanding utility units

I've heard proteus is good stuff, and I say buy a throne because nobody is ever fielding them and they're such delightfully gross looking models.

If you discount the few things that most people agree are balls-out broken (on the assumption they'll be errata'd into the dirt within the next two errata cycles) Cryx is basically fine. Almost their entire caster stable is legit playable and they've got a strong selection of warjacks, even if they're mostly limited to lights and character heavies outside of the Inflictor. Like 75% of their infantry and solos are irredeemable trash, but whatever, everyone already owned a unit of Satyxis Raiders anyway and that's all you need.

Now Skorne, they're just fucked.

I want to build this list but I’m missing a few pieces and I’m unsure about its quality. I have the impression that I’m not running enough models. It would be paired with Gunny’s gunline.

TK is used in an offensive manner but with where you can position Madrak its really tough to get at him. Everything is a medium base or larger, I park mine around a platoon of warders and near enough to the stone to benefit from protective aura as well.

And yes I mean the cavalry along with Striker3 however Striker 3 is few and far between.
As for Madrak's nerfing i'm not honestly sure, Rathrok only cares about living models dying to him currently so no extra fury for killing the very little undead running around and warjacks. And berserk is alright.

Oh and the usual list I run with Madrak is as follows.
Trollblood - Madrak2 pair
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Bunker - Steamroller Objective
Madrak Ironhide, World Ender - WB: +28
- Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15)
- Dire Troll Mauler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 5
Fennblade Kithkar - PC: 4
Trollkin Fennblades - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer - Officer & Drummer: 5
Trollkin Warders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10
Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 3 Grunts: 6
- Stone Scribe Elder - PC: 3

yeah I was thinking of grabbing the raiders and UA first I have a squad of the crappy mk.1 raiders with no horns but I don't like to use the models iv never been a fan of the banes especially now that their delivery option have gotten shot to shit, i may pick them up once they get balanced a bit more. I figured the WSC would be either first or second after that as they now completely outclass the sckarlock as you and other have said.

as for the jacks I was looking for a light sneaky jack and a heavy jack to do some work as I always feel as if I don't have enough firepower. I feel as if the birdjacks have the potential to do some real work assuming their not shot to shit.

I was thinking about grabbing a machine wraith or two especially if I grab the wraith engine somewhere down the line, I like the fact that its fully incorporeal now gives it a bit more survivability IMHO, a pistol wraith would be nice as well for some shooting as well as solo hunting shenagins.

as for the casters I thought about grabbing one of the shades probably not 1 right away because of the feat but im interested to see how the others are doing, iv always meant to grab skarre but never got around to it, and while I would love to grab dragonegrea I feel as if im not ready for her in terms of painting and transportation wise to say nothing of how shess plays. all my games thus far have been with venethrax so in addation to getting used to the new rules im still trying to wrap my head around him even if he seems rather straight forward.

Don't bother with the Wraith Engine, if it was four points cheaper it might be worth discussing, but as-is it's costed like an expensive character heavy and absolutely doesn't do that sort of work.

really, damn I thought it might be actually useable this time, not necessarily optimal but at the very least a viable option that could excel under the right caster.

besides the point reduction I wonder what else it would need to be really useable

The wraith engine is not the end of the world, it's basically a weak cryx heavy that pays the incorporeal tax.

It can be an absolute bitch in scenario. Most magic weapons are low pow so if you don't attack with it you can force your opponent to throw a ton of resources at it to make it go away. It also spawns instantly activating machine wraiths, which is not the best thing in the world, means that you can send little incorporeal balls of warjack doom all over the board.

That's a false equivalence, though. Melee damage is shit.

Well, it isn't comparable. Melee contacts are serious commitments, and melee damage isn't all that efficient. It's going where it's going, overruns and underruns are common.

Ranged damage is utterly efficient, or near enough. Every bit of it is allocated to its best effect, as needed.

Agonizer support isn't remotely the same thing as krea support, when it comes to list durability. To the point that it doesn't really deserve mentioning in the same context.

We went from 10 to 15 regulars to 3 or 4 from the edition change.

Results may vary.

Wasn't meaning it to be in the same context - more just that agonizers and heavy spam can be considered a brick or hard in a sense.

A lot less shitposting though.

It's certainly not doing very hot right now, as a lot of old players are pissed about the edition change turning everything on its head, and old player base taking a hit makes it a little harder for hard-hit groups to get new players in.

Continuing shortages at stores for battleboxes probably doesn't help get new players into the game with a really easy and cheap entry point to get the hooks in either.

Online discussion won't recover until about half a year after the shift. At the moment, a lot of what I've seen is slanted towards the negatives of the new edition, and being angry is both tiring and gets old pretty quickly, so discussion tends to peter out fast.

That said, I think it will pick up again once things cool down a bit. Although I'm not sure if it will return to its highpoint pre-mk3, but will instead be quite popular, but not go back to being the "other" big game out there compared to 40k.

Hey, still new with this game. What's currently showing promise?

And how is Menoth at the moment? It's my first team, I'm not sure how or what I should be looking for.

So far, here's what I've got.
(cont...)

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - 75 Kreoss1

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

High Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +29
- Revenger - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Repenter - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Crusader - PC: 10

Exemplar Bastion Seneschal - PC: 6
- Vigilant - PC: 9
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 4
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4
Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Exemplar Bastions - Leader & 2 Grunts: 10
Holy Zealots - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
- Monolith Bearer - PC: 3

A couple notes:
- I'm looking to replace the Crusader, hopefully with a Vanquisher in the future.
- I want the Zealots to stay if at all possible. I have a sort of hard-on for blowing shit up.
-Kreoss1 is ok, but I want something with more denial. Amon sounds neat, I've been looking at Vindictus for his Zealot synergy (again, hard-on.)
- Probably going to replace the Bastions/Senshal with Temple Flameguard/Pyrrus/Gatekeeper. Still want a Marshal for the Vigilant (driftback is a bitch).

>A lot less posting though.
FTFY

[Citation needed]

The idea that people are angry about changes is stupid. Sure there are some angry people but nerds HATE change. You should have been following forums during the releases of 8th Ed WHFB books. Literally every book had people shelving their armies and quitting the game. The Daemon book especially.

If you use the internet to gauge reactions to changes in a nerd game its ALWAYS going to be negative. No one goes onto forums to talk about how the TV they just bought works fine and they're enjoying watching GoT on it.

>nerds HATE change
Oh what a nice and utterly useless blanket statement. Maybe some of the change was actually legitimately bad? Maybe that's why some people are agitated by it?

>If you use the internet to gauge reactions to changes in a nerd game its ALWAYS going to be negative.
That is however true in most cases.

So I'm completely giving up on Skorne infantry. Last game against Trolls my opponent just casually SP6'd an entire unit of Nihilators into ribbons. Nihilators are bad, Keltarii don't do enough, Swordsmen are just worse Nihilators, Karax exist to die, Incindiarii are unplayable, Venators are pretty average with Dakaar not because out yet.

Fuck infantry man I'm just gonna bring another fucking Cannoneer. Or Orin Midwinter and some Master Tormentors.

>SP6'd an entire unit of Nihilators into ribbons
In other news, water found to be wet.

Cetrati still the bee's knee's, expensive and not as durable sure, but my opponent knows to steer clear of them.

Karax and Reivers are Skorne-good. Ferox, Bloodrunners and Cetrati can be Skorne-good in some cases. I expect them to be nerfed in the next errata. They are really taking table space away from other factions.

Cetrati are the only infantry I'm considering using, and that's with Xerxis1 because Defender's Ward and an Agonizer makes for pseudo 24ARM nigger, then a Willbreaker gives them Tough on top of their Steady and Sacred Ward. It's a very expensive brick but it's one hell of a brick.

>Karax
>Reivers
Yeah but they're nothing special
>Bloodrunners
>Cetrati
Again nothing really special unless you're bricking it up. I'd rather just bring a Master Tormentor if I wanted Bloodrunners. She doesn't really tie guys up, but she'll kill them. If she's anywhere near a forest she's a complete terror. You hide over 3" inside, then Apparition forward and charge out, then Sprint back into the forest. Even better with Xerxis1 since he has the TyCom buff of +2" to a full advance, which Sprint is.
>Ferox
LOL

What would you guys purchase next after a circle battlebox ? I was thinking another two-headed dog to meat shield and a ranged unit.

>and they've got a strong selection of warjacks, even if they're mostly limited to lights and character heavies outside of the Inflictor. Like 75% of their infantry and solos are irredeemable trash, but whatever, everyone already owned a unit of Satyxis Raiders anyway and that's all you need.

>You can play whatever you like so long as it's a Deathripper, Stalker, character Heavy, Inflictor, or Satyxis Raiders.

This is not what I would consider fine. The army is playable, just, but that sort of awful internal balancing is not fine by any means whatsoever.

Though I'll agree Skorne have it even worse.

2 Sentry Stones. They're ridiculous. I don't play Circle myself, I'm just sick of that shit.

I don't think the Cryx infantry that gets a bad rap is as far from decent as people seem to think. A little cheaper or another point in speed, mat or def would usually be enough to make me interested.

Then there's shit like the Revenant Cannon and ahahaha what the fuck there's now way anyone playtested this on a table ever.

Those nigga will be getting a nerf come December. Honestly, I wouldn't be buying two of anything now unless they start shit because you don't know if PP are going to make them shitty and useless in a few months.

Wormwood, 2 Sentry Stones and a pack of sleeping pills.

Ha. I'd rather not piss all my opponents off by dropping all the OP shit.
I was going to stick with the Box Caster for a while, maybe try out Baldur with the rocks down the line a bit.
You wouldn't recommend any of the other range options ?

I think Reeves with all the UAs are supposed to be rediculous now. Something about multiple shots ignoring LoS and Anatomical Precision or some shit I dunno I haven't paid any attention to Circle since Mk3

>Anatomical Precision
The new caster can give them Superanatomical Superprecision. That's what turns them up to eleven.

I do like the look of those. is it fine to buy the box of six or am I going to need the full 10 ?

People tend not to run minimum units of combat units.

Goodbye budget.
Thanks dude.

If it makes you feel any better, buying a complete unit box is cheaper in the long run then it would be to buy a box of 6 and then buy two more pairs to complete the unit later.

Why are trollblood models so ridiculously overpriced? At 75 points I feel like I'm fielding half the models everyone else does but they are nowhere near being twice as strong.

Medium bases and Tough tax.

You get to jam infantry into warjacks better than any other faction and take a about third more effort to kill.

Also, finding those extra four dudes is getting pretty difficult.

Gotta pay for deadly ranged infantry and light beasts

See you made a mistake there- You tried playing a Hordes faction in a Warmachine game.

No they don't. Without the support our models are worse than other factions' models without their support, but are still more expensive, and out support models are even sillier costed on top of that. Also tough is very widespread across all factions now. Khador has almost as much tough models as trolls.

Lol? Malifaux has probably one of the best detailed and designed minis. God tier tied with Infinity.
Compare with warmahordes - just compare assault commandos or sunburst crew.