MTG LEGACY GENERAL

Sideboard Edition

Let's talk about sideboards. Post sideboards and discuss sideboarding theory.

I'll make sure we have a well-formed OP like the modern threads for next time.

Last thread is here

Other urls found in this thread:

mtgthesource.com/forums/forum.php
mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE
mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy
channelfireball.com/articles/the-top-5-legacy-decks/
channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-defeat-miracles/
channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-legacy-enchantress/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Established Legacy - Decks You Should Definitely Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Acknowledged Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>MUD
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show
>Enchantress

Developing Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post

Work in progress, feel free to add.

Should other stompy variants be added here? Dragon Stompy is still viable, if for no other reason than Blood Moon is great in the eldrazi matchup.

This is my sideboard right now, that I play on mtgo:
1 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Infernal Contract
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Meltdown
1 Masacre
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Tropical Island
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul

Everything above the Decays is wishboard, and almost never is boarded in. But the wishboard eats up a lot of space so the flexibility has its downside.

Is anyone else surprised that these legacy threads are going to bump limit? This shit just came out of nowhere, a few months ago these threads would die at like 60 replies
Thank god for that too, I don't want to have to go on reddit to discuss legacy again, it's fucking awful there

Currently fetchlands make unnecessary lot of shuffling that is fundamentally annoying to execute as on paper. (And magic as a virtual experience is so flawed fundamentally due to instant cards) It also creates antigames of mana flooding or having only 2 lands in worst case being in wrong colors. Having mana cards in main deck is probably the worst possible mana resource system out there.

I think you should format it like this:

Common Decks - Decks You Should Definitely Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Decks - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Decks - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Blood Moon Stompy
>Sneak n' Breach

Mythic Rare Decks - What the fuck are you doing with your life
DDFT
SI
Cheerios
Nourishing Lich
Sea Stompy

>Resources
mtgthesource.com/forums/forum.php
mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE
mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy

>Good reading
Top 5 breakdown
channelfireball.com/articles/the-top-5-legacy-decks/

How to git gud
channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-defeat-miracles/

Trying my hand at this, compiled some info from Goldfish and Top8 and got some links. Any additions or feedback are appreciated.

>nourishing Lich
It's time to let go, pal.

We're slow posters and the Veeky Forums Legacy community is small, but it's still a foundation.

I honestly feel like it's 4 guys bumping these threads to limit.

Reposting the flowchart, still the original draft while I rework and splice the suggestions back together.

Don't know what you should play? This is the best place to start.

There aren't really any good Legacy forums on the net. The Source frankly kind of sucks, and that's the best we have

It's pretty obvious when a few people post a lot and use names, but the last thread had 83 unique IPs.

The jokes feel a bit forced in this version, but maybe that's just me.

I agree. The jokes aren't quite up to par. I'm no master of comedy though.

have you played magic, like ever? or did you play hearthstone and make the jump over

i just got into legacy recently and brought a few of my buddies with me here, i'm sure that helps at least a little right?

also if curious, i started playing burn, then just recently finished enchantress

I think you do have it right. I tried to stay as true to the original as possible, but things get lost in translation sometimes; no worries, it's an easy fix.

Enchantress is great. Mind posting your list? My buddy plays it, and I'd love to see the differences.

channelfireball.com/articles/deck-of-the-day-legacy-enchantress/

i swapped runed halo for the rip from the board. thinking about adding another helm.
i also run 3 sterling groves main

How degenerate would Wheel of Fortune be? I'm just bummed every time I see this card in my collection and have no use for it at all.

Brief rundown of 3 important decks in the meta and my sideboarding.

My Dredge sideboard
4 Nature's Claim
3 Lotus Petal
3 Firestorm
2 Echoing Truth
1 Ashen Rider
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

>Miracles:
The only big card I have to be afraid of here is Terminus. Since I rarely cast spells aside from Cabal Therapy (which is almost always before Countertop is live), I don't particularly need multiple copies of Nature's Claim. Since they can Countertop Dread Return by keeping Jace on top, a few numbers might come in.
+2 Nature's Claim
+1 Iona
+1 Ashen Rider (maybe)

>Deathrite Shaman decks
Firestorm immediately comes in. A discard outlet plus a boardwipe PLUS damage to my opponent? Hell yeah I'll take that, and I don't even care if it gets hit with FoW. I've got a couple of key cards in the graveyard now, setting me up for future turns or even my next play.
+3 Firestorm
+1 Elesh Norn (maybe)

>Storm variants
Lotus Petal heats up my clock to race against the turn 1/turn 2 combo. Iona, if I last that long, can be used as a lynchpin to stop future combos. If I don't get FoW on the first turn, it's entirely possible to T1 Dread Return Iona with a strong enough start, shutting them out of the game. They might bring in Leyline of the Void, so I need to think about that before I choose to pick up Echoing Truth.
+3 Lotus Petal
+2 Echoing Truth (maybe)
+1 Iona (maybe)

I think it would be good in ANT but I'm not sure. You can cast it off a single LED which is decent.

Wheel of Fortune is banned in Legacy.

I know. That's what I'm asking. How degenerate would it be if it were legal.

I mean in some of those combo decks like ANT or SI or even belcher it can just be a free draw 7

It would be pretty nuts in Belcher. It would let them refill their hand after a failed attempt, but also serve as a storm engine Turn 1 ETW for 30 goblins would be a real possibility. It probably would see some play in other storm decks as well. I might sideboard one in DDFT as a way to refill my hand. TES would probably do the same, and may even maindeck some.

It'd be fucked, if you see how powerful even DTT was. Sure, it's symmetrical, but the draw 7 effect would be bonkers in the right deck. Just look at Time Spiral (not 1-on-1 comparable, but there just is no comparison for WoF)

>The dream will never die
pic related

>system thinks your post is spam

Fuck you, too.

tl;dr It just sucks to have cards you can't ever use. I get a similar feeling every time I flip past Channel; but that's a more obvious one. At least Channel is playable in the zero red EDH decks I have!

I finished my Legacy burn deck and if I get a chance to play the format much, it will eventually turn into a delver variant.

This looks really fun. How many tix is it?

Meant to say at least Wheel is playable in EDH. Channel is never playable.

But muh vintage combos
>Lotus, land/mox, channel, Banefire

Well I already had the manabase since it shares a lot with DDFT, and I had the flusterstorms and stuff too. Depending on what you already have, or if you are willling to make some sacrifices on the manabase, it could be pretty cheap. I spent about 30 tix on it. But be warned, the deck hilarious and you can smell the salt when you win , but it also is really ______BAD_.

Why the hell is it even still restricted, does anyone actually think it would be that bad?

Oh fuck I just realized Tendrils doesn't work great with Lich effects. Guess I'll have to use grapeshot.

Why wouldn't it? Is it because you've already drawn too many cards that Tendrils for 20 would cause you to lose from being unable to draw another card?

Out of all of that, I have the ponders, maybe.
My MTGO collection SUCKS

Maybe Brainfreeze or ETW instead, so you don't need 19 storm?

For maximum jank, you could play Repay in Kind

Well this just happened

>miracles loses to Lich
Aaaaaaand it's going back in the flowchart.

The fool let Lich resolve, which was his downfall, because I was able to draw enough cards off Zuran Orb to find another Shoal and Wurm after my first got countered. I could almost hear the guy's jaw hit the floor when I drew 15 cards.

The old jokes were short and punctual in a more honest serious tone which made them funny.

The original for stax was probably the best
>I hate people
>who do you hate the most?
>my opponent
>do you want to disguise your hatred by playing a good deck?
>no i want them to know I hate them
>stax

Same with oops all spells
>what would you rather lose to?
>flipping my own deck
>do you like having friends?
>having what?
>oops all spells

The new ones for them don't have that same tone and seem a bit forced, memey, or a bit drawn out.

I really want to play this. Could you post your list somewhere in a copiable format?

TES is strictly Grixis nowadays with no rainbow lands, Silence has been swapped for Thoughtseize.
Make this quick and scooping is or no-talent scrubs should lead to TES. Surgical Extraction -> Oops would make more sense.

Instead of all worlds -> LED Dredge something like What do you like about Magic -> Not playing Magic -> Dredge would be funnier.

Hypergenesis should be taken off the list, no one plays it in 2016.

I'm in mono-green, what do you guys think of Lush Growth as a way to deal with problem lands, like Dark Depths, Port, Glacial Chasm, Wasteland, and Serra's Sanctum? is there a more elegant solution for 1 to 2 mana?

Seems solid to me, but I've noticed most lands players don't play Depths until they can get Marit that turn, so keep that in mind

>Dark Depths, Port, wasteland
Pithing needle works on all of those (lush growth doesn't even work on wasteland or depths) unless your deck really gets shafted by some guy in your local meta playing glacial chasm I don't agree with it.

Alright this is the list I just used to beat miracles. I also beat( meaning I cast Tendrils with 20 storm and drew out before they ran out of life) Nic Fit with it before I swapped the Tendrils out for Grapeshot.

Main
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lich
4 Nefarious Lich
2 Grapeshot
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Autochthon Wurm
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami
2 Underground Sea
2 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
2 Zuran Orb

Board
2 Flusterstorm
2 Disfigure
1 Drown in Sorrow
2 Xantid Swarm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus

I have no idea if the sideboard is good. The relics might be really bad with Liches. The full 4 Decays not be necessary. Drown in Sorrow could be Massacre or something. I just cobbled it together.

RESULTS MAY VARY

I'll probably give it a shot tomorrow, for now it's 4am so i'm gonna try and sleep.
Have fun playing janky combos.

Emrakul. Channel can never be unrestricted now.

For anyone wondering, this is the number that I think you get if you have the 4 doubling seasons, plus the 4 copy enchantment cards
2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^2^11
or
10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^10^615.988

There are about 10^80 particles in the universe

You've orchestrated the revival of an objectively bad combo deck.

What have you done?

Hmm, well my deck wins via creature damage so it does get hosed hard by Glacial Chasm and Tabernacle. But you bring up a good point about Pithing Needle, though.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

I'll do everything in my power to send it back to hell where it belongs. But I think I might run it through a league first. See how badly I get my shit kicked in.

Hell you've even got me goofing around with it and I've hit the turn 1 combo at least twice.

I just tested it out a bit, comboed off turn 2, ended up with 12 cards in library, 20+ storm and no red mana. Such is life.

Question! Why Tomb of Urami?

Iona against miracles seems a bit dubious, but not sure if you see karakas at all in your meta? I personally just kept Flame-kin in and hope for the gods it's fast enough.

What's your thought on abrupt decay? I play petals in main, so I just usually side 4 in depending. What are your side outs? I have been siding abrupt decay + ancient grudge, grudge because it dodges chalice, but not sure if I should just put chain of vapor instead along ashen rider to get whatever that might be a problem outside decay.

I use Iona because Terminus anally fucks Dredge. The general plan I have is to slow roll the opponent and force them to crack their hate or their Terminus when it's inconvenient for me, typically through only putting out one or two Ichorids a turn instead of three or all four. I haven't seen a lot of Miracles players running Karakas because virtually no one here plays Show and Tell and I'm the lone Dredge pilot.

I can't afford Abrupt Decay so I've never used it. 2 mana to get rid of something that isn't Leyline of the Void doesn't feel good, and I'd rather have blue bounce spells because I have a playset of Cephalid Coliseum in the main. That way, if I have Cephalid and Gemstone, I can cast Echoing Truth but I can't cast Abrupt Decay. Just feels overall cleaner for the manabase.

If I'm switching DR targets, Flame-Kin is out for whatever I'm bringing in. Sometimes I take out an LED and a Breakthrough against slower decks. I try not to cut my creature count unless it directly benefits me, in which case I sometimes cut 1 Ichorid and maybe a Putrid Imp. I haven't had to do that often so I'm not sure, honestly.

I tried Chain of Vapor for a while but I couldn't get myself to really get a good kick out of it. Sure, the chances of them saccing a land is low, but what if I don't draw into my hate for 2 or 3 turns and they drop MORE hate? Echoing Truth stalls them in hand, especially in multiples, and then I can shred their hand with Cabal Therapy. Ashen Rider I only use against Lands (Glacial Chasm) and anyone running Moat effects, maybe even against Leyline of the Void.

Cause I had one and it potentially lets you win without casting lich. If a deck like miracles sides out all their paths and terminuses you may be able to steal games with it. But it's bad and not really needed.

could you have hardcast a Nourishing Shoal to draw some more cards?

>>I haven't seen a lot of Miracles players running Karakas

Wow, you lucky bastard.

t. Reanimator player

Ah, I see! Thanks for explaining.

just 2-0'd a guy playing Esper Mentor with NOURISHING LICH. THE DECK IS REAL BAD

>esper mentor
and he's not playing miracles because...?

It's gay.

how should I know? I beat his tier 3 deck with my tier 43 deck and that is all that matters.

Good ol' Legacy. Where decks never truly die, they just wait for some crazy asshole to retune them.

Because Esper mentor is an emerging deck that needs a good amount of tunning and possibly a couple of cards to be printed that'll help it out. It's much more tempo based, more so then tempo-miracles.

...

Fucking hell, why am I excited to try out Nourishing Lich?

Too bad Lich itself is kinda expensive IRL.

It's very hard to find any up to date information on the deck though.

>call the bloodline
That's pretty spicy, unless it's mainstream and I just don't know enough about pox

Nice.

...

Did you want us to see your DCI card or was that just a mistake?

...

:^)

Are Graveborn Therapies quality? Does anyone have experience with them? Are they oftentimes warped as premium product foils are?

Mine are alright, they're definitely better than FtV foils in my experience

The cards are fine but the foiling is pretty lackluster.

>Pithing Needle
On Hexmage or Thespian's Stage?

I was brewing something like this a while ago, but with monetary mentors as well for extra value. Have you ever tried them?

To clarify, it was less of a reanimator strategy, and more midrange value.

Thanks, I'll prob just spring for FMN promos for my turbocasual Burning Vengeance/Secrets of the Dead/Gravecrawler/Zombie Infestation flashback deck

>MFW i play Enchantress on a meta full of storm and reanimator/show and tell
Rule of law and karakas ftw

>Tfw your deck isn't even tier 3

Let's talk about Mox Diamond.
In a few handful of games, I might be able to play Mox Diamond + land and play some incredible two/three-drop, such as Thalia or Trinisphere. MAYBE. Then for the rest of the game, I have an additional three (four) cards in my deck that are absolutely dead draws. I've counted myself drawing Diamond and thinking "FUCK OFF" way more many times than I've used it to spread cancer to a surprised opponent. I see most list, both black and white stax, run 4 diamonds. I really want to cut all of them, but I'm concerned that I've overlooked something. Thoughts?

Ps: I found the deck thanks to the flow chart, in the "I hate my opponent and want him to know it" current. Keep it in the chart, please.

>tfw your deck is "Tier 2" but you know it's actually Nightmare Tier
Hope you brought your 4 copies of Tormod's Crypt

The flowchart is back in construction again but I'll keep Stax there, just for you.

It's like you said, explosive in an opener with a spare land, but dead later into the game. It does well to mention that it's great with Crucible and loam though.