The Official MTG Snowstorm/Lore Thread

It doesn't matter what you tell people. Some of them will auto-lose Vronak simply because they don't like me or my flakes. He could be paired up with literally anyone. Doesn't matter that he's more experienced, lives his life just to survive threats, and has chosen his summons strategically to overcome most encounters.

>Avacyn, Sigarda, and Thalia
Members of the same sect of the same church that Serena fought for all her life.

>Avacyn AND Griselbrand
Well in addition the fact that Avacyn would want to smite him on sight for being a 'reanimator' why would he know the biggest beings on both sides of a war personally enough to summon them? It's like knowing Hitler AND Churchill while being Jewish. At least one of these sides wants to kill you on principle, while the other wants to kill you for consorting with the other side.

The praetor thing should be especially obvious but I'll spell it out: There is no way you should know a praetor enough to summon them. Ever.

Vronak. As his spells are cheaper and he has a toolbox to choose from.

I don't know about everyone else, but I don't give a damn whose flakes are whose. THIS IS COMBAT.

That being said, it's an interesting match-up. I'm not sure how I'd vote yet.

Mono-white Avacyn doesn't kill humans. Especially one who isn't harming others.

Ice Age user, repost the rules, remind people that memes are no longer memes, and flakes are judged on combat ability

That's not what I'm saying, asshat. I'm saying that interacting too closely with canon characters is grounds for disqualification by rules of the ice age battles.

>Mono-white Avacyn doesn't kill humans
This is how we know you give 0 shits about the lore. Killing necromancers and demon consorters is her and her church's job. Knowing Griselbrand enough to summon him is a fuckton of consorting.

You don't have to get to know a being on a personal level to summon a duplicate of them. In fact, you actually only have to witness them once. As the rest of the spell depends on your own knowledge and understanding. True, the better you know the depicted being, the closer it'll be to acting like that being. But, for most summon spells, they don't act like the same being and are just around to fight and complete tasks.

>Vronak VS Ambrosia
Gonna give this one to Ambrosia. Her style means Vronak's strategy isn't likely to give him any kind of quick easy win and Vronak's style of magic is extremely one-dimensional whatever else there is to say about it. Ambrosia's bound enchantments give her a very wide variety of answers and abilities. Vronak's bound necromancy thing, in my opinion, does not. Without ideal circumstances, Vronak loses.

>Jakrol VS Jed
Definitely giving this one to the lich. Jed's brave but Jakrol's power seems like a brave warrior isn't going to be able to do him in. Only way out I can see for poor Jed is if he's somehow able to break the enchantment keeping Jakrol alive.

>Astera VS Shurguul
Hm. I think this one's leaning in Astera's favor, actually. Shurguul is likely the more physically powerful one, but from the sounds of his bio he's not particularly experienced in actually using magic (he's described as sloppy and only beginning his education, with little indication he's had a lot of practice since) and if there's one thing enchantresses are good at it's protection and lockdown while grixis is terrible at removing hampering enchantments. If Shurguul can't win very quickly I feel like Astera would bury him in enchantments.

It is a new thread, so I will.
Also, heads up; if you're ever looking for the rules during the Ice Age, just search for the post with the Vanguard card:

>During each round, flakes will be assigned to random opponents in single-elimination tournament fashion.
>Flakes will be treated as though they are all neowalkers in order to create a balance of power.
>Flakes with meme-levels of power will be treated as though they weren’t.
>Flakes that directly contradict lore, especially by going against or interacting inappropriately with canon characters, will be disqualified.
>Flakes that are joke or troll flakes will be disqualified. The use of silver-bordered cards in a flake’s preferred spell list automatically disqualifies them.

>During the first round, all flakes will be placed into the roster randomly. Flakes that are disqualified will give their random opponents a bye for the round.
>During the first round, flakes will be revealed in smaller groups, noting disqualifications and asking the thread if they wish to disqualify anyone else.

>During each round, small groups of flake match-ups will be revealed
>Arguments and votes will be taken from the thread over which flake is likely to prevail over the other.
>After each round, the flakes that move on will be re-randomized on the roster to make match-ups unpredictable.

>Match-Up rules will treat both competing flakes in a match as though they are both forced into conflict with the other, and neither is allowed to planeswalk away until a winner is determined. Flakes will be treated as though they start with zero assisting summons and will not have prepared for this encounter.

You have to for a legend. You have to know them, their spells, their fighting style, and probably how they talk.
It's the difference between summoning a random angel and summoning avacyn. Or the difference between summoning a random dragon vs summoning Silumgar.

For every creature that Vronak summons, Ambrosia has had the time to conjure up at least one enchantment, many of which are designed to restrict creatures.

Vronak doesn't start with immediate advantage, which puts a control-based character like Ambrosia at a rather nice advantage. She's simply a counter to his archetype.

That's my logic and I'm sticking to it.

> knowing enough
You literally know nothing about the lore. Name one instance where it's stated that Avacyn killed cultists. Especially ones that weren't killing anyone.

While you're at it, name one time in the lore where it says you have to know the creature on a personal level to make a duplicate of them.

Wait a minute...
*looks at flake sheet*
That doesn't say he's a lich anywhere.

She doesn't really know them. She's barely interacted with Avacyn or Sigarda, she serves under them, she doesn't know them much better than the humans do. In fact the Lunarchs know that Avacyn is made by Sorin, the angels don't know that.

Thalia is a bit different, when I wrote that I had no idea Thalia was going to become such a big deal. Still though, she knows her in that she has been a part of the same organisation, it's hardly the same thing.

The only canon character Serena has serious ties to is Gisela.

No you do not. There are no legendary creatures in lore.

Oh, wait, fuck, I mixed him up with the other guy.

>Jed Vs Jakrol
Brave warrior kithkin vs edgy torturemeister...Sangromancy is pretty hax if you're powerful enough but I feel like if Jakrol fucks around trying to torture Jed Jed will get the better of him and win.

Uh. Avacyn killed an entire flight of angels for consorting with demons, you don't think she kills heretical humans too?

It's Vronak, shut up and stop accepting the bait.

Ice Age, post the polls already and with a short time limit so we can get this over with and move on.

Except most of Ambrosia's spells require a lot of mana. While Vronak's doesn't. He summons a duplicate of an Inkwell Leviathan. Game over. He summons a duplicate of Jin-Giraxias. Game over. He repeatedly summons a duplicate of Akroma. She comes in swinging. Game over.

I don't take orders from you or anyone else.

I am, by chance going to post the polls. But I will do a ten minute call only when I see that the votes have ground to near-halt.

strawpoll.me/11128375
strawpoll.me/11128376
strawpoll.me/11128377

GET IN HERE AND VOTE!

And what were the Angels and Demons doing?

Yawn, Detention Sphere'd after Greater Auramancy.

Apparently he doesn't.

Feldon spent a month with a monk learning how to summon a copy of said scholar and even then it didn't turn out exactly like him.

Then when he summoned his wife, who he know thoroughly, he made a perfect, exact copy.

Well, if we're going to give Vronak his ideal turn 2 play...

How does he avoid getting crushed by thousands of tons of earth being sent flying by the Inkwell Leviathan emerging?
How does he get the Inkwell Leviathan to do anything other than flop around uselessly in the air, crushing everyone and everything?

I dont' wanna be that "oh, my gosh, drama drove up the ratings" guy, but we broke the vote record on one of the matches you know which one.

Again. Takes two turns longer.

Fahd wasn't a Planeswalker. He didn't know any summon magic. And he tried to summon a copy with the incorrect mana colors. How is that relavent? Knowing the creature didn't make it easier or harder. He was just dumb. And it was pointed out in the lore as well.

Turn 1 play. Also, Ambrosia doesn't have that.

Votes have slowed down.

TEN MINUTE CALL!

GET YOUR LAST ARGUMENTS AND VOTES IN!

Or it comes out of the ground beneath his opponent. Om nom.

>with the incorrect mana colors
Nope, he learned how to use all five colors in his travels. He's just a naturally red man.

When he summoned the scholar he had just completed his training in blue training, which consisted of two weeks of just watching and observing the man. He had to watch, observe, and know the man for two weeks before he could summon his incorrect copy.

How did he get to such a great distance that he isn't crushed beneath flying boulders?

Inkwell Leviathans are described as so large that one emerging from the ground would pretty much be a Krakatoa-level event.

Vronak? You want people to like your flakes, think of some ways he could be bested. No one likes a character without some weakenesses.

Again. Non-walker. Dumb man. And literally didn't learn summoning magic. He created a fire elemental that was the shape of his wife.

Man, you're really trying hard to defend your flake, aren't you? Just accept the loss. You've made so many flakes, some of them are bound to make it to the next round. Chill.

>Everyone's arguing about Vronak and I'm just waiting on the coin flip if Astera or Shurguul wins

Look carefully at Ambrosia's sheet. Notice that it's identical to almost all of Vronak's old sheets.

He made the very flake that he's losing to.

You and me both.

I've already stated his weaknesses. But, no one cares about that. They k it care about arguing over shit they literally know nothing about. Like this guy who hasn't even read Loran's Smile.

I don't have a problem with any of my flakes losing. I have a problem with people stirring shit when they don't even know the lore. The only thing that actually bothers me, is when people haven't read the source material and act like they know everything and nothing they haven't read could possibly be true.

magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/lorans-smile-2014-10-27

>"You have watched me for two weeks," said the scholar. "Now see if you can use your magics to bring me into being."
>Feldon blinked. "But you're already here."
>"So bring another me," said the scholar. "You've got the power. Use it."
>Feldon took a deep breath and called upon the powers of the land. He thought of the nervous scholar in his thick spectacles, rummaging relentlessly through the decaying paper and rotting vellum. He tried to call a being that summed up the nature of the creature in one place.
>There was a pause, and then an identical duplicate of the scholar appeared.
>No, not identical. It was taller, and its flesh had a ruddier hue. But it was thin and nervous and had thick spectacles and a knowing manner.

Feldon summons a scholar

>He remembered Loran. Not just the feel of her touch or the way her hair moved like a dark waterfall. He remembered her: when she was happy, when she was angry, when she was gardening.
>When she was dying.
>Feldon thought of Loran and the life she spent with him, of the tales of her youth, of their work and lives together. The joy of life with her and the sadness of her departure felt like a great bubble rising within him. He fed his memories of the land into that bubble, memories of the mountains, the forests and shore, the swamps and the temple, and he filled it with power and life.
>When Feldon opened his eyes, Loran was there. She was perfect and whole and as young as when he first met her at the gates of Terisia City.

Feldon summons his dead wife. After training blue mana with said scholar. Red mana

That's not mine either. Actually, I don't even know if it's Des'.

BUT HE ISN'T A PLANESWALKER THEREFORE HE'S DUMB AND STUPID AND UNSYMPATHETIC AND HE DESERVED HIS WIFE TO DIE AND HE'S NEVER AS POWERFUL AS A PLANESWALKER

IGNORE THE COUNTLESS PLANESBOUND MAGES THAT ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN PLANESWALKERS

This round is over. I had to resolve the third match with a coin flip. Again.

The flakes moving onto the next round are as follows:

>Ambrosia
>Joth
>Jakrol
>Astera

The next batch of flakes are as follows:

>Revas
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxLXVrX296VklQSUk
docs.google.com/document/d/1-OG_JWXBWjK-Gvc16x8_u0H9wCWxZ-BzbRFoQjvaYkQ/edit?usp=drive_web

>Merik [DISQUALIFIED: Joke Flake]
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxSS1MYXp0cFNGbFU

>Americia
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxb29XUWRLb3ZKekU

>William
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxaWJ5R1pZNlVIWlU

>Makayel
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxQlF1RkpWOWlGQk0

>Corvin
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxd0lWTVUxbUJxS00

>Wrotok
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxTGdPUmZjemwxV2M

>Sumarru
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxTnNfYVNYbGEzS3M

DISCUSS!

Red mana training was several colors ago.

>Like this guy who hasn't even read Loran's Smile.
>Vronak's trying to claim someone hasn't read a story he's completely misquoting and misremembering like a raging idiot.

Of course. It's just made by someone that positions their text in the same way, uses the same font, uses the same program, uses the same card images, uses the same font size, uses the same vocabulary and uses the same sort of profile image.

It has to be coincidence.

Will's time magics are a bit too lore-shattering.

I think Americia is a joke flake made for the 4th of July.

Yeah, disregard everything before those lines. Feldon was not a bright man. He wasn't a Planeswalker. And he didn't understand summoning magic. All contributors to him not being able to do it correctly.

Now look at Ixidor. He was dying and made Akroma perfectly and as a fully functioning permanent that didn't go away after a short while like most summons. And he did it with ease. And he wasn't even a Planeswalker.

Again, you're tailoring your posts specifically to cause as much controversy and attract as much attention as possible.

It's official, Vronak has been defeated by a meek enchantress.

Let's move on from this discussion and focus on the next match-ups, flake-makers.

I'm done. I'm going to sleep anyhow.

Corvin has a silver bordered card, which is a pity since It almost seems on accident. Everything else works too well and he seems like a serious flake.

William apparently exists as a humanoid eldrazi. That' pretty lore breaking.

Corvin is breaking the no un-cards rule, although aside from that he's fine.

America is a joke flake, I believe, but actually doesn't break any of the rules that I can see...

William's a flake I like but I feel like lore-wise he'd have to sit this one out.

>William apparently exists as a humanoid eldrazi. That' pretty lore breaking.
That part of his story has actually been retconned out. He deals with time shenanigans now. He also wasn't an eldrazi, but rather believed the eldrazi were an important part in his "Great Truth" philosophy. He is fully human.

I agree on both, WIll and America should probably sit out.

Ah, okay. His exploration of the blind eterneties itself rubs me the wrong way, but I can live with the rest of it. Mostly.

I don't necessarily think Will should be disqualified, but I will point out that he is very powerful. He has very potent time-hopping abilities, and could do little time-skips to sabotage his opponent. Would that make him too powerful to go up against?

Having heard the room, I will now post the match-ups for this group:

>Sumarru VS Revas

>Merik VS Makayel
Makayel gets a bye to the next round as the result of Merik's disqualification.

>Corvin VS Americia
Amazingly, both flakes have been disqualified.

>William VS Wrotok
Wrotok gets a bye to the next round as the result of William's disqualification.

We've only got one fight, eh?
DISCUSS! The poll will be up shortly!

Sumarru's internal lag makes him pretty awful as a combatant. His reaction time is bound to be crippled as a result, leaving him useless.

Actually, he always sees 2 seconds into the future. So maybe he could anticipate his opponent's moves.

>He sees his opponent's actions two seconds into the future.
>He decides to dodge their attack by going up, no to the left, no backwards! No, counter with a kick...but what if he...
>He gets stabbed.
Don't take this seriously.

strawpoll.me/11128469

VOTE!

This and he's a dragon. He also uses counter magic. If he could see Revas's control spells coming, he could counter them before they happen.

>There's a tie

Damn you all
TEN MINUTE CALL

>need to sleep because work tomorrow.
>don't want to go to sleep because I'm afraid one of my flakes will got to bat while I'm unconscious
What do?

There's only one more round after this tonight. I'm revealing them in 6 minutes.

The flakes that move on...
Thanks for not making me flip a coin
are as follows:
>Sumarru
>Makayel
>Wrotok

The next batch of flakes, and the last set for the night are:

>Skotonos
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxa0o1QWJCdEN6UGM

>Unknown [DISQUALIFIED: Unfinished Flake]
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxUjlEc1FoYkp4Mnc

>Dyna
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxemY2QWtmMS1wRjg

>Kasten
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxZzJHR1diYWYtSnM

>Belagir
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxczFNeG50UTk4M3M
drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxcFhnNHFWUVJ1Z2c/view?usp=sharing

>Stuzek
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxd2xEUkdMalA2MW8

>Jorge
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxSXFETVlYOEQ5MWs
drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxekY5d1ljTGZwWDA/view?usp=sharing

>Shauna [DISQUALIFIED: Unfinished Flake]
drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0Bwl7IuoVRkFxV0o4dGlQcGVwU2M

DISCUSS!

I fear for poor belagir's life, he knows virtually nothing, anyone who fights him is bound to win unless he gets a pass from a disqualified flake.

Man, we pulled a lot of big name and low-power characters in this bunch, didn't we?

And he's got no mama to hide behind. Yeah, belagir's fucked.

Also, Dyna is here and that's amazing.

I feel sorry for whoever fights Dyna
And I feel sorry for Belagir.

These match-ups are super amazing. You guys don't even know.

But you're about to, because I'm eagerly posting the match-ups:

>Belagir VS Jorge

>Dyna VS Skotonos

>Shauna VS Unknown
Astoundingly, both Flakes have been disqualified because THEY ARE BOTH UNFINISHED.

>Stuzek VS Kasten

DISCUSS!

>Those match-ups.
>Laughing mad.webm

Um, let's see, I don't think Skotonos has enough poison for Dyna. Or a delivery system that could get enough of it in before she punted/squashed him.
I think Jorge is currently suffering brain damage and can't remember his spells. So the point goes to the harpist that can put him to sleep. SOMEHOW Belagir wins.

Stuzec is old, but wizened, but Kasten is Zendikar tough.

>Belagir vs Jorge
In this situation, I'd say Jorge has the advantage. He's the more seasoned warrior in this particular arena, and Belagir doesn't really know what he's up against.

>Dyna vs Skotonos
Not to knock Skotonos's skills as a killer, but I'm going to guess they don't work particularly well on a woman big and strong enough to grapple dragons with ease, and Dyna's individual fists are bigger than his entire body. Taking one punch is one punch too many, Dyna could just step or sit on him, and that's before we get into her ability to throw a frigging meteorite at him.

>Stuzek vs Kasten
This one seems pretty evenly matched, actually, but I'm going to give Kasten a slight edge. Growing up on Zendikar means you're ready for giant monsters comin' at you, but if he fucks up he's still done for.

Put the polls up so I can go to bed, dammit.

Here are the polls, folks.
These will stay up until after I give the ten minute call sometime in the morning.

strawpoll.me/11128574
strawpoll.me/11128576
strawpoll.me/11128577

Gremlins have been exclusively phyrexia aligned up until now and there's not a basis for them in Indian mythology
We have a transporter.
And Wizards has done false set names before.
>yfw Aether Revolt becomes Third Invasion
>Jace and Gideon have to ask bolas for help.

Wowsies!
Mutant Ninja Turtles on Kaladesh confirmed!

wow, so far all votes are exclusively one-sided.

Someone needs a ballot broker.

>inb4 belloski volunteers himself

so i just looked over all this shitposting and you guys are douches to vronak. there is literally no way he wouldnt win as he has a few hundred years of exp and all his spells costs less meaning they can be cast sooner

lets try and test out the best case scenario; vronak casts entomb for akroma. ambrosia does nothing. vronak casts reanimate on akroma and swings. ambrosia casts greater auramancy. vronak casts entomb and animate dead on gisela akroma swings. ambrosia casts detainment sphere. vronak swings with whoever is left on the board. ambrosia loses.

it seems all you guys (probably just two of you) just have it out for vronak even though he would theoretically win every scenario against ambrosia

> tg is bad at magic

Wew laddy

am i wrong though? it just seems that anons are just gunning to have vronak lose simply because hes vronak

...

You can demand a rematch, we're still in round one, but I really doubt different results. That's pretty much the only productive thing you can do, telling the people to feel bad for their decision really isn't going to solve this or change future decisions.

you're a hundred percent correct. and i think vronaks user should demand a rematch

Well, when Ice Age user returns, Vronak's user can request it, and we'll see what Ice age says, because it's technically a project of his that can be done without our interaction. If he agrees, then I suppose a second vote will be made, though the whole situation will probably attract votes against Vronak out of spite alone. Them's simply the breaks of the situation. The best possible outcome is for Vronak to make solid arguments for Aeon, because I do not believe the people here will allow for Vronak's flagship flake to progress, regardless of whether or not this is good for the matchups.