Early Imperium

>Humanity encountered several intelligent alien races during their expansion out into the galaxy, such as the Eldar and the warlike Orks. With these discoveries began, in time, the first human-xenos wars. With Mankind at the height of its power, the threat of aliens was viewed as trivial and eventually non-aggression pacts were signed between Terra, its colonies and many of the alien races.

This along with the knowledge that terminator suits were civilian gear, and land Raiders were just deathworld range rovers for explorers. Titans not existing until much later.

Just what kind of technology were the First Men capable of?

I've have not read every codex or book, but I don't remember anything being mentioned except the men of iron being used as soldiers.

They were less advanced than the Eldar, but basically gods compared to everyone else. Weaponized blackholes, power armor that's more advanced than the current stuff was standard issue, able to kill or create stars, you know, standard galactic gods stuff. Other than the vague, "Galactic Gods" stuff though, not much is known. Whole pre-Dark Age of Technology is basically unknown. Only reason we know about the black hole guns is because a mechanicus dude found a DAoT ship somewhere and managed to get it working enough to kill a couple of Eldar ships.

Don't forget guns that send the target a few seconds in the past in case the first barrage misses.

Jesus Christ, didn't realize that DAoT humanity was using fucking hax.

A large part of it was the Standard Template Construct, a super-advanced 3D printer and intelligent system sent out with every human colony. They had a complete database of all available technology, as well as the ability to analyse a local environment, work out what resources were appropriate and adapt any designs to it.

A terran colony with an STC could build literally anything without too much time, because it would give them the perfect way to do so with the greatest efficiency. This allowed human colony worlds to become self sufficient and begin contributing resources to the race as a whole in no time at all.

The existence of super-intelligent AI's who were at the time friendly is also likely part of where the supertech came from.

OP same user from , this pic basically explains why not much is known.

I really like that. It takes a bizarre state of affairs and does a good job of making it make some sense.

I've seen that before, but your right next door to Terra.

Why haven't they just called the Fist chapter and grey Knights to help them clear the planet. I would imagine finding out humanity could reclaim knowledge of super weapons and armor advanced beyond current SM gear would be enough to have their full support. Oh yeah, and you don't have to leave the solar system.

Mechanicus just not want the imperium to know what they have?

No, because if they were to send them in, they would die. You could send in all the Fists and all the Knights, and I would be suprised if a fraction of a fraction of each would come back with any thing that's actually useful. Everything, EVERYTHING, in the Catacombs of Mars is either possessed by deamons or hates humanity with the hate of pic related. There are war machines from the DAoT that make the most deadly of Knights look like a child playing dressup in comparison. There are as many different types of machines and tools and wonders so grand they could make you weep as there are planets, and each one of these things have only their hate for you in common. The shadow of the ghost of the library is anchored to this world only by its hate for the librarian.

Aren't daemons really shitty in a physical fight?

It varies, but doubtful when possessing an ancient mechanical body instead of some bio-matter puppet.

You do know that wall of text is bullshit and contradicts the lore?

40K isn't bad because of RAISENS. It's mostly bad because people keep making the wring decisions out of hubris and stupidity.

The line that kills me is the one that says that every decision made by the Imperium and Admech is the best one ever.

This text is Dindu at the max,

Did you miss the whole "warmachines powered by hatred for humanity" bit? I mean, I even posted an image so you can get an idea of the amount of hate we're talking about here.

>"I didn't read the post"-the post

Why don't tell that to a Bloodletter. See what happens.

Because Mars is stable. It's not getting any worse.

The Grey Knights and Imperial Fists are busy dealing with problems that will get worse if they are left alone.

Also, the Ad-Mech don't want anyone seeing their secrets.

Read it and it's shit.

Go the last paragraph. Especially this line "The Imperium is grim because every single shit decision, every single sacrifice......., is the absolute best that can be done".

Only only is this bullshit if we go by the lore describing the Imperium, I am really horrified that people think this way. You guys are monsters for believing this.

Not only*

Citation needed.

The Imperium has always been portrayed, in my experience, as the necessary evil, the lesser evil. They are not cruel or backward out of any desire to be, but because under all the pressure of a thousand different threats which could wipe out humanity, it is all they can do to hold on however they can. Exterminatus is not something anybody wants to do, but if obliterating one world can stop a dozen others being threatened, it's what has to be done. If a million men must die just to hold the line another day, so a hundred billion might life, it's what has to be done. That is the reality of the Imperium of Man.

they are the necessary evil because of how they fucked themselves up over the milennia, from the Emperor's secrecy and autism, to the ineptitude of the High lords, to the greed of the Mechanicus

The rulebooks.

Nothing in it says that the Imperium is doing its absolute best and that every decision is thus justified. It is ruled by corrupt power hungry men who have no care for the plebs. They will destroy the lives of millions out of simple hubris and uncaring incompetence.

Now tell me. Does working a whole world to death to produce useless goods the absolute best decision? Or is the Imperial Church "A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time" crowd religious massacres the best decision?

Some strains of humanity did trade with Eldar & Orks. Some time afterwards, said strains found out they were assholes & stopped.

The excerpt in your point actively proves you wrong. All those losses and tragedies are rounding errors, the unavoidable side effect of action at such a huge scale, and are generally insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

No, it does not. It disproves the line I pointed at. Not every sacrifice and every decision is the absolute best. The Imperium does not choose the best decision. Often it goes with the worst and least effective route that will waste lives and weaken it in the long run as long as it buys it a few more years of existence.

A good example is the Beast Series where a a succession of bad decisions born out of self interest and hubris brought the Imperium to its knees.

Your pic seems to support the other guy's theory. The Imperium of Man is tyrannical, oppressive and a terrible bureaucracy, but it's the only thing keeping humanity from going extinct. Necessity; the best that can be done under the circumstances.

Yeah, but there's a lot of institutions which exist for the sole purpose of murdering people who make bad decisions for the Imperium due to self-interest and hubris. Checks and balances, you know.

Not debating that Imperium is keeping humanity alive. I am debating the whole the Imperium can do no wrong which you guys seemingly on board with. It doesn't do the best that can be done and not every sacrifice is justified.

I'm not sure anyone has suggested that the imperium can do no wrong other than you. 'Making the best of a bad situation' is very different than 'always right'.

And who are often corrupt and in turn go after the wrong people.

And the Imperium isn't in the state it is now just because of the threats facing it from outside and within. It's being run by madmen and tyrant who make things worse for everybody.

>'Making the best of a bad situation' is very different than 'always right'.

The text here suggest this and you agree with it, no?

>And who are often corrupt and in turn go after the wrong people.
Yeah, but at some point someone gets tasked with murdering them too.

You can't make an Imperium without breaking a few million heads.

I think you're reading too much into the specific phrase 'is the absolute best that can be done'.

It doesn't mean that the Imperium is perfect, or even close to that. It just means that, on the whole, they do the best they can with what they have. The fluff often focuses on people who are incompetent or make awful decisions because those are the times when interesting things happen, when worlds are lost or people are purged for their crimes and mistakes, but that isn't the majority. Most of the Imperium is at peace, and decently governed, but the human tragedies within and the threats all around are the interesting places to set stories and events within the game itself. Nobody cares about a random agriworld where the king is a generally decent bloke and they get their shipments off on time. It's only when a cult settles in or the Orks invade that people start writing stuff about it.

but that quote is from "I have no mouth and i must scream"

Don't take the "necessary evil" to another extreme. Mankind would be doomed without it, but it's a shitty inefficient mess of brutality and anti-progression. Even a regime like the Galactic Empire from SW would do a better job.

I was trying to relay just how much hate the machines in mars have for humanity by using a damn goid quote from another machine that hates humanity, faggot.

>Just what kind of technology were the First Men capable of?
The kind the plot demands, seriously. Trying to apply an exact tech ladder on a setting with something like a hundred writers across the years, and a healthy dose of codex wank thrown in it, is pretty hard. Not to mention that 40k is a tragedy,
Basically the 'crons and the Old Ones are at the top and can do anything.
Then you have the eldar just below, that may still have their tech intact, only without the means of mass production and the will to use it (because they will get eaten by Slaneesh if they stray from their path/are space mormons on dinosaurs/aren't interested in anything that can't be used to torture your neighbor)
Orks vary a lot (and even more if the gretchins are enslaved remnants of a superior race).
Chaos doesn't really have tech on its own, and can simply use a daemon to do the job in most cases.
Tau are at the lower end, but they make for it with understanding and reliability.
DAoT humans are below the Necrons and Old Ones, but above the Tau. Other than that, it depends on your interpretation.


And keep in mind that tech is not linear. Orks, for example, have the best tractor beams with the lifta-droppas.

Baneblades were also SCOUT vehicles.
My idea of Mankind's military pre-DAOT was quite simply this.
Iron Men spam. Imagine your ground troops as Terminator SM's armed with weapons that make Gauss weapons look weak. And to top it off they're replaceable as Guardsmen. The Eldar pre fall didn't want to fuck with us.