Are the Elysians the worst IG regiment?

>paratroopers in 40k

>Not having vertical envelopment capability
If you need to be told what the "point" of paratroopers and other airborne capabilities are then you know fuck all about anything.

>space french partroopers in space
>worst

yeah no, you are a cunt
also, POUR L'EMPEREUR!

PS: there is nothing wrong with the space FAMAS

It is to make the weapon smaller and more compact.

Small and compact is what you want went you jump out of planes for a living. Lighter is also good, but less important than smaller.

That is why bullpup lasguns make sense for Elysians.

>always lose
To be fair, they've only really featured in Forgeworld Imperial Armour books. The Imperium always loses those unless they're fighting chaos.

They don't always lose.

See

blacklibrary.com/all-products/monolith-eshort.html

>lasguns don't have recoil
[citation needed]
Lasguns are after all PEWPEWPEW scifi rayguns which have little to do with real life lasers.

>>space french partroopers in space

Last time I read their fluff I saw nothing connecting them to french. user, why are you trying to confuse me?

>french are surrender monkeys meme

I think I've only seen them with German names but French fits them better. France likes paras, and they have bullpups, all they need are berets and armored cars

Though IG regiments tend to be more era/conflict based instead of drawing only from one army (the deathkorps having french greatcoats and late german helmets, for example), the famas expy, Elysia name, and simply the fact that France love paratroopers points towards frogs as a big source of inspiration.
Also, there is no regiment with visible french roots (apart from FFG's scintillian fusiliers that may be inspired by the Gardes Royales, but they aren't very sexy); so if you want to play frogs but don't like the Sisters of Battle, you have to use what you can.

I'd say that the british paras are covered by 2nd ed. stormies.

The names just comes from the fact they drop from the sky or 'heavens'

Problem is, Elysium is not above Earth in any mythology. It's either at the end of the world or "underground".

Why do they even need all their equipment to be so lightweight, are gravchutes really no better than parachutes in the weight limit for effective use?

So, if Elysians aren't it, which 40k Regiment would most closely mirror the modern tactics of high mobility communications-centric warfare?

it all sums up to the "we can rely only on ourselves" scenario...

when dropping units behind enemy lines or at a compromised area without vehicle support and relying exclusively on the soldiers capability, you need to facilitate movement for the oper8tor so they can tacticool the shit out of the scenario, its the only advantage they will have against an already positioned enemy. Bullpup design as said before, allows for a long range rifle to become more cqc friendly.

The Imperium won in that aeronautica fluff campaign too, but there the Tau tried a really hard bet

Elysians represent post-war doctrines for colonial wars (or puppets as well as colonies I guess considering Soviets in Afghan, US in Vietnam), particularly France in Indochina. So they're probably still going to be closest, no guard regiment is nearly as, or can afford to be as, risk averse as any modern first world military.

Space marines. Or Tau.
40k is based mostly on ww2 warfare, and the guard is often not the most advanced faction of the lot.
It's a conscious choice; I remember a quote from Rogue Trader where it said that 40k what a "Dark Ages" setting, and that trying to imagine the innovations from the 41th millenium would only result in making the setting completely outdated a few years later, as RL tech marches on.
Cadian shock troops or Armageddon steel legion may fit the bill, though.

Maybe the (indubitably standardized) charge packs discharge their load in a way that would be pain in the ass to redirect. Optimization often comes at the price of flexibility.

Plus, do you really want there to be a long-ish cable that transfers a high-energy charge through half your weapon? What if it breaks? Fucking plasma weapons are bad enough about this as-is.

Granted, 40k's Fucking Space Magic generally isn't easy to justify using real-world standards since it's almost always built according to the rule of cool, but in this particular case it's not too hard to come up with something sensible.

Yes and no. Barrel length does have an impact on recoil (and accuracy), which is part of why one might go for a bullpup design instead of merely sawing off the barrel in the first place.

So does shittalk usually make threads get more popular? We already had a thread discussing IG regiments but that died

Yes, welcome to Veeky Forums.

AdMech forces canonically subscribe to the notion of combined arms warfare. A Rogue Trader's private army or some Inquisition outfits may also qualify; as for the Elysians, I'd be inclined to agree with what posted, really. Space Marines... might qualify if they're rejecting the Smurf Laws. Sisters of Battle are too fucking weird about everything.

If we're looking past the confines of the Imperium, the Tau would be the best example of what you're looking for. They've got human client populations, and if a client world gets lucky *and* proves itself to be a loyal subject, it *might* be granted access to the entirety of the Tau Empire's armory.

You know if old IG regiments were based on actual armies in multiple conflicts why cant the scions be based on real life special forces?

The scions got shafted so fucking hard

That "codex" is a fucking disgrace.
But honestly, going from "here's the profile for stormtroopers, it can be used to represent anything from inquisitiorial shock troops, schola trainees, or elite regiments like karskins or grenadiers" to "here's a whole book with a single unit and 20 pages of copy-pasted color schemes to fill it" was doomed as a concept.

>Hunt eldar
>Fucking dress up as necrons
>No notable characters
>No notable tactics
>We fight eldar good

Were never gonna get lore like the Catachans have ever again huh?

Elysians have some pretty cool toys I wish they would get expanded more shit like an airdropped melta gun sentinel or that dune buggy are awesome as fuck but that seems to be there only only special items.

Here's the pinnacle of IG units.

>Unit 777 Scions

Gaunt's Ghosts aren't that bad, either.

Nothing against the Last Chancers though.

I wouldnt mind some Scions who work with the Salamanders that actually try to value and preserve human life with a preferred enemy of Dark Eldar as they are also a proficient in ship to ship boarding

>boarding holofield ships
No, you take weapons batteries or you go home.

Arent there other slavers in 40k?

Orks do, they mostly just make them build stuff.

It was an idle thought. Since the IG doesn't have anything that would resemble a modern main battle tank (their tanks undeniably ascribe to the light/medium/heavy idea and seem to have capabilities firmly rooted in ww2, which is just fine with me) the whole idea falls apart.

I think Tau would be the closest fit, but it doesn't have the right aesthetic.

Ah well, I'll continue to entertain my thoughts of a Vietnam to Gulf-War era IG.

The Russ is basically the MBT, it's an infantry tank at heart, but they don't have any real cruisers so their set-up is still basically main tank, IFVs (with a turret the Chimera is definitely closer to these than ww2 era APCs), self-propelled guns, specialist AFVs (hellhounds and senitnels), the only fundamental change is the speed their armour moves at.

>IFVs (with a turret the Chimera is definitely closer to these than ww2 era APCs)
>looks exactly like a BMP ripoff

??????

The Russ is a medium tank. It's too slow to fill the role of a main battle tank all that well.

The BMP is an IFV, what's your issue?

CATACHANS RULE

>41st millennium
>WWII tanks

>quotes a post with no ww2 tanks in it

What did he mean by this?

Anyone here ever started an Elysian army? I always wanted to but those forge world prices look nasty for an regular 1850pt army

The Elysians are just FW's version of the Praetorians -- someone to always lose and based on actual units and battles.

Elysians in Taros Campaign = 1st Airborne at Arnhem.

24th Praetorians at Big Toof River = 7th Cav at Little Bighorn and 24th Foot at Isandlwana. Not to mention that wasn't the first (or last) time the 24th Foot got clobbered.

Havent read the rest of the thread yet but....

>hey man, yknow that vendetta right?
>well im wondering why we dont bolt a titan weapon onto it
>well yeah it would be a bit off balance, but cmon man

The idea is when you want something really dead you drop em in.
If they survive its a bonus

It's an intentional stylistic choice because the authors knew they wouldn't stand a chance of guessing what warfare or technology would actually look like in the 41st millennium.

Just look at how absurdly dated Cyberpunk 2020 is these days.

I always wished IG expanded on different regiments working together so Catachans and Elysians are basically bro tier since they focus on fast and light infantry combat while the Elysians would hate the Death Korps of Kreig since I am pretty sure Death Korps artillery men would not no the definition of danger close when working with different regiments

Elysians would probably want to be bro tier with armoured regiments as they're the ones going to be at the spearhead or the offensive to reach whatever place they've been dropped into. But given how often they just get left, they're probably a bit bitter about all the others.

>SAS Scions

So. the Leman Russ is basically a giant Sherman with the option of sponson guns, right? Does that make the vanquisher a Sherman firefly/Super Sherman?

Conqueror? It's got speed, armament and durability.

Vraks isn't Grimdark. It's sad and even tragic yes, but ultimately is GrimBright since the spirit of man persists despite suffering so much that it's not an amount but "Suffering=Yes" and still persevering. Not just to survive, not merely to win, but giving everything they had and everything they were for their fellow man. For all those they fought with, for all those who had already given their all in life and died, for all those fighting on other worlds against different armies but all fighting for the same thing. For these sacrifices given, from the recruit who died with his first step onto a battlefield, to the Emperor himself who suffers more than any man ever has for as long as he has and will have to.

Not for the sacrifice made, but for love of the men who made it, and love of the men who they hoped would never have to, they did not flinch when they were called to do and die.

That's fucking GrimBright shit.

And now they have the best reward imaginable. The Emperor and the holy Mechanicus who are his servants have given them technology that lets them give more than they ever thought possible. Without fear that it might not be enough.

Russ is a Churchill. MBT is the 75mm armed one, Demolisher is the AVRE, Vanquisher is the Black Prince, Conqueror one with the 6pdr., etc.

>Spetnaz Scions

...

Russes are comparatively armoured and slow in-universe, Shermans were poorly armoured but fast compared to other medium tanks of the era.

How do I do GSG9 iiiin spaaaace!

Hey, nothing wrong with Tacticool.

Maybe there will be a more modern guard company that instead of being John Rambo from Vietnam, is a "Near future Modern Soldier" that comes from a system where the planets heavy gravity forced the Colonists to modify themselves and constantly wear exo-suits that are similar to powered armor and are individually fitted.

Due to concern of Tech Heresy, although unquestionably human, they have been restricted to their own planet. Their techniques for adaptation to the planet, and the manufacturing of the individualized suits, are deemed to be too inefficient for use in the greater Imperium, with resources better spent on the superior and much more Doctrinally safe Space Marines, or equipping large amounts of guardsmen for deployment en masse or to many more places at once more likely, as there are always more guardsmen needed then available.

Still, what they have will be used. Deadly enough on heavy gravity worlds due to their modifications and power suits that are not only armored but also have a shield of a unique design (warning! Possible Xenos taint.) there are absolute terrors when fielded in more earth-standard gravity or in naval actions. Their ability to act more independently than Skitarii, and more flexible tactically than using Assassins, and while not as capable as a single Space Marine individually or compared squad to squad, they are nonetheless much more . . . . politically agreeable for many jobs, integrating into combined arms roles with other guardsmen forces, and not abandoning their positions or sometimes even entire theaters of war for reasons of "honour", or because "They did what they came to do" and have plans elsewhere, putting their own goals ahead of the tactical and strategic need for them after other forces had already been committed.

They are not the best or most specialized for any role, but still perform above average in all. Designation "S-PART"

>fast compared to other medium tanks of the era

Numbers I can find put it slightly faster than a Panzer IV, but slower than a T-34 and Cromwell.

>>Hunt eldar
>>Fucking dress up as necrons
>>No notable characters
>>No notable tactics
>>We fight eldar good

Wait.

>>No notable tactics

It pretty clearly says the use specialized tracking programs. The sad part is the just half-ass that and go "Muh special skills from shooting Whomp-wracks on our home planet"

Could have instead gone one step forward and have them be communication and data analysis specialists originally instead of soldiers. Under constant attack by Eldar warbands on their homeworld, defense forces were frequently raided constantly, picking off scouts or isolated guardsmen or even performing daring high-speed attacks to grab a specific soldier in a flamboyant and terrifying fashion. On occasion entire regiments would be abducted by the vile Xenos with only empty barracks left behind, the raids happening so fast that weapons were left where they were dropped and meals half eaten with chunks of food bitten but still yet unchewed littering the floor.

As the guards dwindled, reinforcements were promised but fewer and fewer sent. With no apparent enemy to fight or even bodies left behind, suspicions of collusion with the Xenos or possibly other, darker forces made the Imperial Guard commanders wary of losing more forces to unknown fates.

The Mechanicus comms & data specialists were deemed expendable in the pursuit of their research, but not worth sending a force to fight the Eldar, or worse to simply sit there wasting.

So eventually the remaining Techpriests and soldiers banded together. To be alone was to be dead, they moved in groups. Ate in groups. Slept and even performed the ablutions of the flesh in groups, more concerned about not being the next screaming victim than privacy.

This helped somewhat, but the attacks continued. The Techpriests now abandoned their previous research on esoteric algorithms and variable prediction, and began to apply them to predicting the timing and pattern of attacks.

Make them some sort of Hiveworld/Forgeworld Scions. Something that deals with being on top of the enemy and crammed in with them a lot. I don't know if it'd make sense for them to deal with VIP protection and such.

Melta Bombs, Stubbers/Shotguns, other "low-tech" close-range weapons if you want them to be something that deals with mainly Imperial held worlds. Probably some offshot of Lasguns that is definitely not a G36 or something if you want them to be a field regiment. No idea if there's some ballistic shield equivalent in 40k. But then again, Scions having low-tech makes no sense.

It basically depends on how operator you want them to be

This helped improve survival, as now dedicated spotter units were put out in preparation of the attacks to confirm so that squads of soldiers could fill the sky with las-fire before even seeing the Eldar foe. Certainly, waiting until they could see them had meant that it was already too late.

Many attacks were stalled this way, the raiders peeling off howling and shrieking. But still others came from low probability angles regardless, or at more erratic times or in successive waves with a second group taking advantage of the lull in firing after the first group was driven off.

The true success, the proof of the superiority and ingenuity of man was not completed until the Techpriests, seeing their allies and defenders dwindle slower but still dwindle, did something bordering on tech heresy although it was eventually deemed not.

The soldiers and techpriests had already been existing as single groups for extended periods of time, doing everything together, and one techpriest noted the reduced discussion and apparent spontaneous knowledge of what others in the group needed, or were going to do. Handing correct items without being asked, moving to avoid each other while working without looking or speaking, sharing reloads as soon as their guns ran dry without a beat practically counting not just their own but the others shots.

Seeing similarities in a line of research dropped earlier, the cogitators used instead for brute forcing predictions on attack approaches and times, the techpriest brought it back up and applied the budding results to his squad, getting them to do activities to even further reinforce this awareness of each other, not a lack of communication at all but a depth so detailed that only small indicators were needed to be understood, knowledge and familiarity filling in the rest.

The danger point was when he took it one step further. Skitarii, heavily modified, were often given sophisticated programming for targeting the enemies of Man.

Scions with a thunder hammer when?

But what about the blue jeans and sneakers?

Since they're always peaking around corners they don't need leg armor, they use standard Inquisition comfy dress pants 00001.

Their sneakers are Terrasnikes Inc. durable fitness wear designed to be utilized in both off-duty and on call life throughout civilized Imperial worlds.

Rainbow 6 Siege 40k edition?

>be playing rainbow 40k
>Defending on catachan warehouse.
>Decide to play psyker for wallhax.
>Reinforcing warehouse area to protect objective.
>One of their Skull-servos finds us and starts screaming.
>Floats back to where they're spawning before we can shoot it.
>Our farseer gets a webway gate setup in the upstairs tower for flanking.
>Deployment phase in now.
>Scanning with psyker to try and see where they are.
>The Korp Guardsman behind me explodes into a million pieces.
>Oh fuck they have a bolter sniper.
>Run to other wall away from fire.
>Suddenly chainsword breaks through the wall and rips through me.
>Best chainsword flank I've seen by a marine in a long time.
>Taking objective.
>Where the fuck is everyone else.
>They all followed our farseer through the gate and are on the other side of the map crouching in the tower.
>Attackers take it before they can get back.
>Lose

FUCKING ELDAR

Can confirm, it's accurate.

Not having access to said Skitariii, and definitely not having access to programs as valuable as the ones used by the elite troops of the Mechanicus or the ability to reproduce the implants that ran it or modifications to the men who were but raw material for the finished product, this lack did not make the Techpriest despair and abandon his unsanctioned and risky to both his soul for possible heresy and the men in his group if it failed.

Brute forcing worked once as a solution, not completely but the progress of man towards the perfection of machine is one of many steps and not a single bound.

With his group already improved to almost instant responsiveness to each other and awareness, he gave them all helmets with integrated cameras and HUD displays. Basic in construction and simple of design on the HUD. No strange energies were detected, there weren't separate settings to see invisible enemies hiding in bands of radiation outside humans ideal range of sight. Just an algorithm to identify and project the movement of objects at high speed and place a line along it's path, it's stripped down process allowing it to do this very, very fast.

And then he linked the cameras together, so that each display showed the soldiers own line and also the rest of the lines from the others in his group.

Normally too much to process, to keep track of individuals and their lines let alone their position and what their angle would be, the TechPriest used the most holy of machines, the perfect cogitator in Mans own head to make the soldiers of his group into cogitators working together to solve the angles unconsciously and to just know from which angle everyone in the group was seeing the object.

The next raiding party was unpleasantly surprised. Thinking they had outwitted the predictive fire they still screamed in as fast as possible, howling in their twisted voices with a tainted joy at the expected confusion and fear as much as the actual attack.

>Our farseer gets a webway gate setup in the upstairs tower for flanking
>implying Tom Clancus would ever allow people to play filthy xenos or heretics

No, it was grimdark, or rather grimsad because it was a pointless war fought for the sake of being fought.
Vraks was an armoury world that suddenly went traitor, and not only taking it back (or rather denying it to the enemy) costed more than anticipated, but the only thing with value on the planet, the ammo and war materiel, was all but spent in the fighting.
As such, millions died pretty much to mantain the status quo, and to make things worse the dude responsible for it not only escaped Imperial justice, but the clusterfuck he generated was such even the gods noticed him and he was ascended to Daemonic Princehood.

It's not about persevering on top of adversity, but about the act of persevering alone IS adversity.

As one, the modified group filled the sky with fire. With each soldier tracking the raiders from multiple viewpoints, and with instant understanding of each mans target, they were able to focus not only on the expected position of the raiding warband, but to have some fire where it might stop dead, others where it might veer to in the physics defying maneuvers they had seen their vehicles make too many times before after attempting to lead their shots.

Instant prediction of multiple solutions, perfect co-ordination to solve all possible solutions, their fire was not necessarily accurate, but was precise and unavoidable.

And now the inferior construction of their vehicles began to show, as a few solid hits were more than enough to down them and their pilots, still screaming but not with joy.

With not just corpses, but a victory and the promise of more to come, the remaining guardsmen and Techpriests were redeemed, Forces were sent to to be trained in the new fire squads, to spend every waking moment together and taught to know each other at all times as intimately as their selves.

The linked cameras with their high speed identifying and tracking algorithm was examined for tech heresy, and found to be basic equipment and the application of a theory the tech-priest involved had been authorized to research. Still, it was the integration of the mind of Man that made them decide that he had not been reckless or disrespectful of the Omnissiah.

Of course, the crude materials he used were replaced with standard ones that gave greater resolution over variable distances and were capable of multiple spectrum of radiation, but the algorithm itself was found to be most effective in its basic form.

The 54th Psian Jakals are now considered to be the preferred elites for dealing with Eldar. The firing patterns are a deadly counter for both high speed maneuvering as well as the almost prescient ability to change direction to avoid even the most accurate shots.

*shouldn't have recoil, but do because magic shitty writer syndrome

>Designation "S-PART"
Space Partisans.
I like them already.
Space marines where you want them when you want them equals to victory, but those guys are too rare. Scions are more abundant and can deliver results as well.
Your description explaing why they have Move Through Cover.

I thought the dude responsible became a chaos spawn. Some chaos commander took over because the guy that started it was a useless twat once the fighting began.

There we are. A reasonable answer that isn't just "Lol, you don't know how many Eldar they shoot dude. Like, a lot, all the time. They got special programs and shit in their helmets".

Instead we have a nice story about Guardsmen getting massacred, Techpriests ignoring it until they start to run out of meatshields, the Imperium being paranoid and callous with leaving them to die or not but telling them to continue their research there regardless as the most cost-effective option in case they are traitors or just incompetent since there isn't anything of value there expect the possible results of their research. And of course DEldar being DEldar.

Then we have some less grimderp for grimderps sake. A techpriest doesn't experiment, or at least not more than he was originally supposed to, so while we're seeing progress it's still very cautious. They try to use what they can to survive, essentially just math to calculate probability and find patterns which is what they are trained to do anyways whether for logistics in trade or war. They fight bravely with crap tactics regardless, Guardsmen still dying like they do but slower.

Use the situation to make them become special snowflakes because it's 40k and they're supposed to be anti-Eldar. Have the Techpriest start his journey into heresy by noting a similarity with a heuristic communication algorithm he was using in experiments or whatever that lets him predict the non-verbal communication happening, and then improve both communication an the squads ability to predict each others next actions. Now they're snowflakes.

Give the a technodohickey like say integrating multiple independent targeting capability made from substandard equipment and a basic premise and just say that the magic of the human brain, trained to be able to understand and respond to the information immediately and in co-ordination, and BAM.

What do you guys think? Less retarded or at least more fun than WH40k writing?

That was a pretty good read. I'd almots say it's sad fans don't write the codexes, but we don't want another spiritual liege now do we?

I liked it pretty good idea but where do we add in the necron outfits though

Cardinal Xaphan was a fool being manipulated by deacon Mamon, who ended up becoming a Great Unclean One.
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mamon

First point: Utter fucking bullshit. The Secondary reason that the army had the SA80 (as it was originally) foisted onto them to replace the FAR superior SLR was corporate corruption and a misplaced idea that the (then still conceptual) future APCs would need to smaller than the ones then in use, leading to squaddies needing a shorter rifle in order to enter/exit said APCs in a timely fashion.
The MAIN reason was bribery and corruption.

For fuck's SAKE user, when it comes to Elsyians the meme is Dien Bien Phu. Where French paras jumped out WAY below safe opening height to try to break the siege.

The name comes from the Greeks actually.

...

But you see, Grimdark is when millions die to fail not to maintain the status Quo. When there deaths weren't just in vain, but also unnecessary.

Dying for a hopeless cause is GrimBright, even if the cause isn't true because it's about the conviction and determination of the human spirit that can hope so much for a better future for others that men will sacrifice themselves for a future that win or lose they will never see.

GrimDark is when an inquisitor comes along and sees that the armory world has been depleted of the things that gave it value, the guardsmen sent have died in droves as ordered, and with the traitors finally defeated the few surviving Guardsmen have instead of being able to rest and finally stop, now have to deal with some Jackass ascending.

The inquisitor contacts them and asks about the situation, suspicious of what's happening. The guardsmen stall telling him that they are investigating and will confirm the situation for him.

The fight the Demon Prince who is weakened somehow by PLOT. They fail to defeat him, but he was trying to leave anyways, and as they manage to actually start to hurt him through Faith in the Emperor and a tank filled with explosives, promethium, and a man they thought for sure dead but who came back to save them and may be a saint - right as it seems they might win the DP flees instead.

The portal he uses to flee is seen by the Inquisitor and he mashes exterminatus to prevent Chaos corruption.

The guardsmen die having finally truly failed, not their duty or their orders but each other and the Emperor. Not because they failed to kill the DP. Not because they got bombed with their comrades. But because at that moment they died in despair.

If they died to ensure the strike would kill the DP, aight noble death despite failure. If they died fighting the DP, noble death.

Dying for no reason, not even malice nor as a sacrifice, just wrong place and time because the universe it terrible, that's Grimdark.

The Imperium has it's own skull fetish you know.

I mean, they targeting system that they use isn't really the equipment or the ID & Lead algorithm, but the ability to accurately model the actual location of the target by comparing everyone's data and then firing in a spontaneous but organized pattern that doesn't just aim for the most likely position but all the possible positions they might dodge to.

So they skull isn't for necrons, but to portray that the flesh is just a shell, and that the divine spark lies in the mystery of the human mind and spirit, that which makes it different from the hateful Abominable Intelligences which are flawed by their lack of the ineffable mystery despite the ancients from the DAOT being able to create Minds that mimicked the original divine creation of the Omnissiah in every measurable way.

The fact that you associate this holy image of the truth that lies behind the flesh of man is . . . concerning. Please report to re-education class 2439. You will be required to wear these earplugs before approaching, and turning off your olfactory sensors. If you still have you flesh ones, they will be burned out instead.

You will enter the room, sit in the chair within, and be sure to place your arms full on the armrests and with your knees facing forward.

The process is fairly direct from there and does not need further explanation.

Thanks, that's nice to hear. I haven't been getting much feedback from trying to write things like this on here lately, or if I do people just get mad that I'm writing long posts.

Like, even criticism would be cool, but complaining about reading too much on Veeky Forums forum? Like damn in general, and in specific it's not like I'm coming to your house and forcing your eyes to scan it.

>doesn't just aim for the most likely position but all the possible positions they might dodge to.
I love the IG codex explaining the way they deal with nimble Eldar aircraft is by making the whole sky explode at the same time, and they usually have the sheer amount of ordnance to do so.

eh you lost me id still prefer necrons here

The Elysians always lose because GW fixated on Market Garden and are hacks. The end.

I can't find the specific reference, but I remember how it was explain somewhere.
Might have been the Inquisitor rulebook or something else, however it struck me without how ingenious and stupid at the same time the explanation was.

Some makes of lasguns have artificial recoil as haptic feedback for the shooter. Like a smartphone does a low frequency buzz when you push a button, except for shooting.

Blew my mind when I read it and explains why weapons that shouldn't have recoil sometimes do have recoil.

That's actually how Flak worked pretty much back when they had to work out how far the planes were by acoustic and optic devices, and then by radar, and eventually optronics. Fancy word.

Still, the lag between firing and the projected path of the plane was more than long enough for the plane to move unexpectedly and be missed. So they made the bullets effectively bigger by making them explode, so minor changes would be less effective, in height or direction.

Really it was the tactic for AA until missile development when you had something faster then the plan, and later able to maneuver for it's own course corrections.

Actually missiles would be the ideal anti-eldar weapon. It could pull crazier stunts because their vehicles are still limited by mass and tolerances of the pilots.

Probably doable by the Tau, they use a missile drone with one shot boosters in cardinal directions as well as a thruster that can fire at variable thrust intermittently.

Approach at high speed, and if the enemy tries to use their slower velocity and therefore tighter turning radius to dodge or "lol physics fuck you" technology to just jink without dealing with inertia, one booster slams it to a halt and spins it so the other booster explodes it into the vehicle, where it then explodes more.

Or missiles that are able to explode into directional shrapnel that can be aimed along its axis if it overshoots the target. Fuck your open tops.