Longer range is the key. UCM should be long range faction of this game.
Hudson Edwards
Repostan for this thread
Just to put sabre points into perspective:
>3 Sabres and a Condor 142 points >3 E10, 3 Dp Mov 4
>2 Gladii and a Condor 149 points > 4 E10, 4 Dp Mov 3
7 point difference and I know which I would take. This becomes even bigger at the next squad size where you can rotate the gladii formation to spread damage. 4 gladii are a better deal than both 6 sabres AND 9 sabres
Henry Wright
Reposting, paraphrasing, and adding to what some anons said last thread.
Nearly a 10 point difference in points/per utility, as well as the Gladii only being 7 points more expensive; if we drop the Sabres down to 33 points each, we get:
>3 Sabre squad + Condor >130 points; 3 E10, 3 DP, 4 move >43.33 points per shot >43.33 points per DP Now the points/per utility diference is only about 6, which means that the Gladii are still more efficient, but the Sabres are now 19 points cheaper than them.
Comapared to a drive-on squad of Katanas: >3 Katana squad >111 points, 6 E9, 3 DP, 6 move The Katanas are still cheaper than the Sabres, but the dropship tax isn't as painful as it was before.
Connor Ward
Why?
They're not particularly slow or fragile.
They're actually meant to be about shock and awe. That's their shtick in the fluff, and it shines through in their crunch capability for tons of gunships and extremely efficient infantry, etc.
Christopher Scott
This a good point.
It is made further when I ask the question, do I even want to take Gladii?
Really am I looking at my tank options as a tax? Do I just load up 3 katana to make my list complete.
Ryder Long
Nah, the PHR (in general) and Shaltari (in specialist) are the long range factions of the game; the UCM are air superiority, varied infantry, and efficient vehicles.
Robert Wood
Something to note is that nanamachines aside, the PHR and the UCM have technological parity. The UCM is all about production efficiency, and the PHR is all about bells and whistles (and art-deco framing and paint jobs to hide the clunky gears).
The UCM has what they mean to build, where their ubiquitous capabilities are insufficient, they've got specialists.
The PHR has the Athena.
Noah Long
I wouldn't say that the PHR and UCM have technological parity, but if we were to rank overall tech as tier 1 (UCM), tier 2 (Scourge), and tier 3 (Shaltari), the PHR would definitely be closer to the UCM than they would be to the Scourge.
Alexander King
What kind of sealer do you guys use for your minis? I know army painter makes some, and I think GW does, but I don't have any experience with them.
Are they better or worse than commercial matte varnish?
Thomas Collins
Well if sabre was efficient we would not have this discussion. I find sheltari the trick faction and phr the buidling demo slow faction. How many of us realy use Seraph ? Where are we supperior in the air deprtment ? And most of all our inf gets munched by sirens and rezorwyrms in second. I think UCM is not shock and awe faction. Nor after the updates the phr is the slowest one.
Gabriel Allen
Hi sheltari.
In any case, by "efficient", I mean that the UCM can do a lot of stuff for their points cost, they are adaptive and can deal with a lot of situations.
>Seraph The Seraphim (and the retaliator) are excellent for punishing players with lax AA, but they're not an auto-take.
>Where are we superior? For one, we have the most air options of any faction:
>most of our inf Then take more Praetorians or collapse the building with [falling rubble]
Jack Thomas
What do adaptive means to you dave ? What can sabre adapt to ? Who doesnt use a lot of AA in a game about drop ships ? Do the UCM strenght lies in the fact that thay have the most mediocre stuff - more then all other armies ? Also shouldnt you be posting an update rather then arguing with me while crounching on a donut ?
Alexander James
UCM is the combined arms faction.
The Seraph's problem is more of a fast mover problem. It is unlikely to be available when you need it nor will it be able to get all its rockets off at once. They should really let you fire two bombs at once if you want. That would give it potential 22 damage per turn on a building. As it stands there are just more reliable ways to demo a building. Plasma weapon is pretty nice.
The retaliator will see far more use, but still fall under the same umbrella. Because fast movers some times just don't come in until like turn 3 or 4.
Our airpower is more in things like, Archangels (which is just a great answer to every fast mover), Falcons, Starsprites, and Eagles. All can be pretty murderous at long range and are deadly.
Nathan Jackson
>the PHR and the UCM have technological parity
I doubt that. It's been made pretty clear that the UCM simply can't do a lot of what the PHR does. They find their enhancements incomprehensible and almost eldritch, and they definitely don't have anything like the dark matter cannon, a similar level of integrated AI, or stuff like neutron missiles.
PHR have tech derived from the White Sphere's wisdom, and the White Sphere is said to be a technological marvel way beyond even the Shaltari.
Jaxson Perry
Falcons, Eagles, Phoenix, Ferrum drones and Archangels. Each one of those is a very strong air unit that can deal with a lot of ground units.
As for infantry, Praetorians put out more CQB dice as a full base than razorworms do. Additionally, Praetorians have a better dodge value than Razorworms. Statistically when you engage Praetorains will put out 15 swings, while razorworms will get 12. Razorworms need 4+, meaning they will get about 6 hits since 1/2 of their attacks will do damage. Half of those will get removed because of dodge 4+ on the Praetorians, meaning 3 damage inflicted. Praetorians will hit back with 15, and land about 5 hits. a third of those will get negated, which is roughly 2 but sometimes 3, so overall they'd do 2.5. So they will land the same amount of damage on razorworms as razorworms will do to them, and will hold their own in close combat. Add on to the fact that Praetorians can actually find objectives and have weapons, as well as more ablative wounds, making them the premier close combat infantry for UCM, and a standard everyone else has to meet, especially with 5 soldiers per base.
Benjamin Evans
Nanotech aside. They're mostly getting by on their integrated AI; they're using the same powerplant technology, ballistics technology, laser technology, and are faking gravtanks with profligate energy budgets.
Bentley Anderson
>Where are we supperior in the air deprtment ?
The most options by far, plus the best gunships in the game.
>And most of all our inf gets munched by sirens and rezorwyrms in second.
Praetorians nigga. Fill those standard infantry slots up with mortars and flak teams. Praetorians will go toe-to-toe with pretty much anything in a building, and if they're too far away to help you, you can shell your opponent out of his position.
>Nor after the updates the phr is the slowest one.
They are still slower than everyone else. As well as by far the most expensive.
UCM struggle with really big, nasty units that have tons of DP and lots of guns. Always having a pair of Eagles around can be a great answer to that, though, and we just got a super heavy tank designed to blast through giant superunits.
Cameron Davis
>dave wew
>Who doesnt use a lot of AA in a game about drop ships? Most tournemant players, seeing as how they take 2 or less units of AA, compared to the promoted 3 or 2.5.
Nathaniel Cox
Even nanotech aside, their level of AI engineering is incredible, and they clearly have more efficient versions of most UCM stuff like powerplanets, ballistics, etc, on account of how much better these things perform on an individual level for the PHR. Their lasers are more reliable in fluff and crunch, and they have access to forcefield tech. They can somehow power dark matter and neutron weapons, which is pretty high tier stuff.
There mere fact that they can coordinate Medusa tier networks of drones and have functional AI pretty much makes it a certainty that everything they design is going to be way more efficient.
Seeing as how Hawk wants to keep at least a month between kickstarter rewards and general release, this implies that we'll be getting our ships by, at maximum, mid-september.
Evan Butler
Or you will be getting your stuff with all the rest morons that will buy this shit of a game ?
Joseph Murphy
Yes
Asher Stewart
I usually find it is better to just waste the building and move my dirt cheap legionaries somewhere else.
It really all depends on if they got their rulebook orders in. And they didn't need correction. Then it is fill 4000 orders with copies of the rule book. Then get them into shipping. All of that will take forever. Provided they actually got the rulebooks finished.
What is funny is we are all waiting for it to ship like that is it, but really we will have to keep waiting lol
Colton Murphy
Dude why are you even here? If you don't like it just leave.
James Williams
AoS threads aren't lively enough for him. He has to do something with the rest of his time, and an autist like this couldn't possibly go outside.
Liam Miller
>It really all depends on if they got their rulebook orders in I think they're in by now; they had a print run ready to go in June, but they had it delayed in order to ensure that the rulebook had no typos.
As for the packing, they've already got all of that done sans the rulebooks and just need to pack all those in and get stickers on them; if Hawk hired just 7 temps to pack, and there's 3 Hawks packing as well, that's 400 boxes per which can be done in two or three days of hard work, and then they just need to be shipped out.
>What is funny is we are all waiting for it to ship like that is it, but really we will have to keep waiting lol ???
Austin Cruz
What I mean to say is that we are all kind of waiting like its a steam release. Even from the time hawk starts the shipping orders, we will still have to wait for our particular order out of the 4k orders to ship. Then we still have to wait the shipping time.
Matthew Smith
Oh yeah, fair point, but I'm pretty sure Hawk already has all the shipping logistics worked out; maybe 2-3 days to get everything out of the warehouse, and 2-3 days after it leaves to actually get to you.
In any case, waiting for it to get to us is far better than waiting for it to ship.
Robert Morales
Hit send to early.
What I was try to say is once hawk starts to ship, we will still have to wait a bit before anything even happens.
Easton Cruz
Yea I know. Hopefully, it goes quick. I won't be able to touch anything next week anyway because of work, but it would be nice if I came home to the box full of goodies.
Easton Hall
I wasn't even part of the kickstarter and I want it to ship just so A) people will stop bitching and B) we can get a scan of the complete rules.
Cameron Davis
I just want to know if there's any ship classes we haven't seen.
I want a PHR heavy cruiser with heavy calibers all round, not just on the sides. Basically a Super Orion.
Landon Thomas
Doubt it. BTR, torpedo or medium gun seem to be the only prow options outside of the battleship.
We might see it on a battle cruiser I suppose
Bentley Gray
>tfw scanning Hawk's tightly bound books is absolute bullshit >vaguely considering cutting out the spine, but I don't want to ruin my book Is there an easier way to do this if all I have is an A4+ sized scanner, and no book scanner?
Thomas Moore
Don't ruin your shit bruh, a bad scan is better than no scan.
Oliver Reyes
Yeah, fair enough; thankfully the fluff is a relatively small amount of the book.
Jayden Adams
>nearly 8 PM britbong time >no update today either ;_;
Cooper Howard
Unfortunately they've kinda stuck to one update a month. If they stay to their current 'schedule' then we'll be waiting two more weeks for an update.
Christian Lopez
>dropship tax >Calling extremely important mobile capability a tax >Driving on units w/ only 6" move that have a special ability almost exclusively useful with dropships
Ever notice how even scourge hunters rarely drive on in tournament lists that place well?
Juan Sullivan
This is like saying India has technological parity with Germany
Easton Nguyen
>How do we make Sabres a competitive choice relative to Katanas? BOCAGE.
Luke Clark
6" plus the bonus 2" from excellent terrain if its present for a unit that is mostly relegated to building demo with a range 4x great than a scourge hunter.
HAHA TIME FOR RAILGUN ON A STICK TO SHINE.
Blake Lee
>Klaus' face when he realizes that those Fireflies over the hill have taken position behind an impenetrable wall of bocage
Christian Scott
...it kind of does.
They won't be building any Large Hadron Colliders soon, but you get them the plans, grossly violate patent law, and (somehow) the money they could do pretty much the same stuff with their respective pools of people, differing in quality, batch size, and expense (the last two being prohibitive for a number of things).
John Martin
I wonder if coating the battlefield wjth things like bochage, whether it be overgrown briar patches, rusted car hulks, or destroyed vehicles that are recent, was intended for play. Looking at the old pictures seems to indicate it in the original core books photos.
Ryan Rivera
Of course it is
Tabletop warmers, especially tournament netlisting tryhards, are notorious for never using enough terrain of varying heights
Christian Smith
It would certainly give more utility to the Sabre's articulated gun, and make the different movement systems more important.
Joseph Scott
Tabletop gamers*
Thanks autocorrect
Justin Cooper
I thought that was some inventive name for casual gamers.
Anthony Sanders
Rule of thumb - if there aren't multiple points in your game where you think "Shit I wish these were walkers instead of skimmers/regular vehicles" then you need more Features on the board.
Jose Stewart
>tfw a ferrum and rapiers w/ a condor are almost the same points
Trying to work out a list without rapiers and wolverines. Figure the snipers infiltrating either on the board edge or centrally, then place the Flak on overlapping sides approximately in line with the snipers. Snipers pulling AA/AI. The ferrum obviously picks up the slack for AA. This seem reasonable?
Standard Army Clash: 1500/1500 points Standard Army Standard Roster [1500/1500 pts]
Expeditionary Group [356 pts] Praetorians: 2x Praetorians, Raven A [124 pts] Praetorians: 2x Praetorians, Raven A [124 pts] Praetorian Snipers: 3x Praetorian Snipers [108 pts]
Nicholas Robinson
Flak teams guarding the firebase? I like that idea.
Dylan Brooks
So, has anyone decided on what colour schemes they're going to try painting their dropfleet ships in?
I had the vague idea of trying the mercury look for a phr fleet that I used on 40k power weapons- base coat of a silvery metallic colour, then wash with different colour, usually blue/greenish, but wipe away most the wash right away so it only lies in a couple of locations to get a mottled look. I'm just not so sure on how well it would look on larger surfaces like the full ship
Jonathan Bailey
Where are your fucking dropships, bro?
Do you even Dropzone Commander?
Noah Baker
Were I to get all races (initial plan is just the starter box):
>PHR RED.
>Shaltari BLUE. (Specifically, seeing if pic related translates well onto spaceships, rather than the aztec scheme.)
>Scourge Black with the ridges drybrushed gold, or at least that's what I'll try on a test ship.
>UCM As close to the default scheme as I can achieve.
Your scheme sounds interesting, but I wonder if it risks being a bit directionless. I'd maybe pick a fish or something and try to copy the pattern on its scales, rather than laying wash around higgledy-piggledy.
Parker Wright
well, all else fails I've got a couple old models lying around I can test the scheme on to see how it looks in motion.
My other options are shell like, or something in the more standard looks.
Jaxon Bailey
Pretty much the idea, yea. Good to see I was onto something.
I gave them railguns and missles! It was either have a single squad of katanas with a condor and like an archangel; or double up on katanas for taking out buildings.
Noah Rivera
>Falcon gunship is a Raven with guns >Eagle gunship is a Condor with huns >Hawk gunship will be an Albatross with guns What guns does it have and where are they, /dcg/?
Joseph Butler
>What guns does it have
All of them
>and where are they
Everywhere
Luke Harris
Or if you're an easily triggered bird scientist, Roc* gunship
Jackson Hernandez
In that case, a lightning gun.
Gabriel Butler
A bit misleading. Not necessarily wrong, mind you, but there's the fact that a single hit being able to inflict multiple points of damage which makes multiple models attractive. Not to mention shot allocation.
Gavin Davis
Just got the 2 player starter set for the first time and holy shir are these plastic Colonial Legionnary underwhelming in detail
Logan Baker
We warned you, user. Metal infantry are V A S T L Y superior
Cooper Williams
The vehicles are fucking fantastic but jesus I really should've gotten white metal
Bentley Morgan
>If you're having garrison troubles I feel bad for ya son >I got 99 problems, but a house ain't one Seriously, as a Resistance player, any scenario relying on buildings is pretty silly. I guess I would hate apartment complexes too if I had to live underground.
Nicholas Bennett
A pair of scimitar laser cannons and barrage rockets or something. It can go in this army:
PEW PEW PEW Clash: 1498/1500 points Standard Army Standard Roster [1498/1500 pts]
It's not quite as noticeable when painted but yeah.
Liam Turner
>quality, batch size, and expense (the last two being prohibitive for a number of things). Quality doesn't matter when discussing technological parity?
Hunter Kelly
That, or people could remember that destroyed buildings leave a 1" high rubble pile
Austin Ward
Doesn't really count.
>Oh look, this 18" tall building is now 1" tall rubble >Cover!
Ethan Gonzalez
True, it also helps to play with street debris like rusted out cares and junk.
Brody Martin
>DZC is 10mm scale, which is about 1mm:175mm >this is about .0394":6.8898", which roughly comes out to 1":175" >an average gameboard is 48" by 48", which makes it about 700 feet by 700 feet in true scale >this is about the size of a normal US overpass/underpass, and the four corner property lots directly adjacent
The battlefield is pretty damn small, if you think about it
Michael Diaz
I'm convinced DZC is smaller than 10mm, I've got a fair bit of 10mm historicals stuff and DZC infantry are noticeably smaller than them.
At a guess I'd say it's more like 8mm.
Ryan Lopez
Question for the people who've got more dropfleet knowledge- while I know you should keep your troopships split up to take multiple objectives, how focused should any given battlegroup be?
Say I have 1 cruiser carrier and 2 frigate carriers in my fleet, should I keep them in their own battlegroup, or split them up between my fleet?
If I take that PHR cruiser with the masses and masses of light broadside guns, should I make its escort frigates the laser variant to give the unit slightly heavier punch or the light broadside variant to specialise the gorpu as my light ship killers / just dakka the shit out of something nastier?
Also, how many ships should go in any given battlegroup?
Zachary Wright
>tfw still no Dropfleet and Phase 2 still shipping
Eli Reyes
Measuring the infantry, it actually looks more like 7mm if you measure to their eyes, 8mm if you measure to the top of their heads.
Since I don't know which convention is used, let's go with 7.5mm scale. Is the baseline height 1.75 meters, I.E. 5'9" "barely not a manlet"?
Ethan Cruz
Anyways, going with these figures we get
>DZC is 7.5mm scale, which is about 1mm : 233.33mm >this is about .0394" : 9.1863", which roughly comes to 1" : 233.15" >an average board is 48" by 48", which is about 930' by 930' in real life
Okay, that's definitely a fair bit bigger.
Robert Green
For comparison, that makes: >a Sabre, being 34 mm long, about 24 feet long >an Annihilator, being 107 mm tall, about 81 feet tall, over four stories >an Ares, being 31 mm long, about 23 feet in height (which is taller than the description) >A Jaguar, being 50 mm tall, is about 38 feet in height (which is taller than the description)
This either means that Dave is working off 8mm or 8.5mm scale, or he's using manlets as the base unit-height
Cooper Torres
I'm betting the Albatross with guns is actually the Osprey mentioned in DfC
Aaron White
Yeah, but it wouldn't make sense to mention it in that context unless it was an assault gunship, and I don't think that really meshes with the UCM's MO.
I still think it's going to be a intermediary dropship between the Albatross and Condor, carrying either 6 light tanks, or 4 heavy tanks.
Blake Gutierrez
I think the infantry are out of scale because I remember the sabre being in scale. Its like 4 feet tall, excluding the arm and the measurements worked out.
Nolan Lee
But an Osprey is a bird of prey, like eagles and falcons, where as all the UCM dropships are named for birds that very much are not raptors.
I think the Osprey will be an assault dropship variant of the Albatross with reduced transport capacity but some amount of guns.
Nathan Martinez
^This sempai. Dave is known for consistent naming schemes. An Osprey is going to be a gunship.
Tyler Campbell
Actually, if it's around 8mm, DZC might actually be in Z scale, about 1:220, alternatively, it might be 9mm scale, about 1:195
This is probably the best answer, though
Noah Watson
What if they are in scale, it's just that in the future everyone will be manlets?
David Miller
Fair point, HOWEVER, vultures (and by extension, condors) are also technically considered birds of prey, according to ornithological taxonomy.
Kayden Russell
And before you say that it doesn't count, Hawks and Eagles are of the family Accipitridae, Osprey are of the family Pandionidae, Falcons are of the family Falconidae, and Condors are of Cathartidae.
Ian Rivera
Are the dropfleet maps just collages of real satellite imagery? That's quite clearly the Tibetan Plateau in the middle with the Bay of Bengal below it.
Kayden Walker
Oh also that island in the big lake (sea?) is blatantly Cyprus.
Jeremiah Mitchell
>he knows his geography NERD
Aiden Garcia
If they are, I'm pretty sure most satellite imagery is copyrighted... I wonder whose it is?
Noah Ortiz
Probably some of it is. I mean this is the Reconquest, so fighting in orbit over earth is definitely a possibility.
Julian Clark
Its not a bad idea really. Also good eye.
Speaking of terrain, anyone know good modular terrain sets? Saw Hexon which is actually pretty neat. I want to copy Company of Heroes, Dawn of War and Command&Conquer maps.
Tyler Gonzalez
>scanning Phase 2 fluff >see Persephone >look real hard at Persephone >wait, holy shit >is that Spain? kekkles
Zachary Martinez
So, I've posted about Resistance a couple times in the last few threads.
Turns out that a shitload of people play Resistance, while practically no one plays Shaltarri. I was interested in them, since they seemed like the nimble, glass cannon faction.
Am I reading them right? Are there any pitfalls as far as their units and vehicles go, stuff I shouldn't bother to buy?
Sebastian Perez
Doesn't count as what? That's perfect for Sabres.
Adam Rogers
>bonus movement from excellent terrain Not if you want to shoot
Matthew Thompson
I don't suppose it occurred to anyone that standing up straight in a firefight is a bad idea?
