Technology in Fantasy

Another thing, assuming this setting has technology equivalent to real life 1865. Then repeating rifles would be in production (albeit they'd be relatively new, but still in production) which means it'd be far easier to just arm everyone with repeating rifles instead of training a bunch of wizards in the same numbers. The mundane people could also be backed up with cannons and cavalry units to help fulfill various roles on the battle field.

I'm not saying tech won't exist or progress, just that it's severely stunted by the existence of magic.

Taking the gun idea, you could mass produce the weapons, but say you enchant them to be more accurate, to be quieter, lighter. Then the inventions and improvements that come about from trying to solve those problems (rifling, suppressors, composite materials) don't come about, at least not nearly as quickly, because the problem is already solved

Tech will still advance, but if the problem is already solved or solvable with magic, way less people are going to put in the time to reinvent the wheel

> Technology can only wax when magic wanes. Otherwise magic will subvert the machinery somehow.

GAAAAAAAAAAY.

Making magic oppose technology is one of the most tired and uninteresting tropes in existence, imo.

I want my spaceships driven by wizards, guns that shoot magic missiles, and mechs powered by dragon hearts.

Question is, how does magic work in the setting? What if you can't enchant guns because reasons? What if magic isn't permanent? Even then it's obviously more expedient just to make the weapon better without magic because the wizard will probably be expensive and charge a lot more to enchant your weapons than it would be to just rifle the whole batch.

Depends on setting.

What about combat wizards deployed in fireteams supported by IFVs that shoot magic thermobaric rounds?

>What would an adventuring party look like at that point?

Does advancement to 1865-era levels of technology preclude adventuring? Filibustering and westward expansion would seem to say no, but I'm not sure.

Magic doesn't necessarily preclude the existence of technology, and I feel would actually accelerate the development of technology as Wizards and enchanted items force the alteration of tactics and economics.

E.g. You'd probably not see many massed infantry attacks after the first few times a dick-ass wizard fireballs them. And most of the time Wizards require a large time and money investment, and so any leader worth their salt is going to look for cheap/quick alternatives.

Ultimately I feel like Magic and Technology would feed into each other and create an ever accelerating arms race that would lead to either a blasted hellscape ala Mad Max/Gone With The Blastwave or a weeaboo esque magitech utopia.

But that's my point in general. To have your tech advance, you have to keep limiting the magic; who can use it, how powerful it is, how long it lasts.

These are just examples but every time, you can come up with an example of tech that could be replaced with magic. The whole point is that magic is easier to use or can be used sooner. Golems before robots, scrying before the internet, fire spell before zippo lighters

Well, assuming magic can be done by everyone for cheap with no real cost, time or effort then yeah. Magic will completely overtake technology, because literally everyone can do it. But once you say "not everyone can do magic" then people have to start advancing technology, because you can't have one wizard go around to everyone's house flicking their lights on or off.

I'm not saying that humanity won't advance, just that magic will take the place of some tech and, consequently, that tech will never be invented. The weaker the magic, the further up the tech tree you have to climb, but still, at some point, magic will take the place of some tech and that avenue of research will have never been pursued.

If the magic isn't permanent, it's like electricity. We're fine with charging phones, rc cars still don't have batteries worth a shit.

But imagine, magic handheld mirrors instead of phones. They run out of magic, so every couple of days (even every morning, like getting coffee), you have to go the the closest wizarding kiosk and have them top off your mirror

Well there you go, magic being magic can do literally anything. In a setting with magic that ubiquitous there's no real reason for a lot of things, why bother with an IFV when a wizard can cast a bubble that stops bullets and transports people around and fireball on hard targets? Why bother with a tank or a plane when a wizard can just drop a spell and annihilate a defensible position?

I'm saying the setting doesn't matter, the amount of magic doesn't matter, tech and magic are inherently opposed. Or, if you like, magic is a form of tech, a form of problem solving like electricity or a plow or a flashlight.

in said setting, yeah, you don't need a thermobaric round when you can just shoot the fire itself.

But no matter how mundane or exclusive the magic is, to those that have it, it can replace some tech. That's what I'm saying. If you can solve it with magic, the only reason to solve it again without, is because you don't have magic

Setting makes a HUGE difference. In a setting where magic is cheap, ubiquitous and wizards are easy to train, there's no reason to start inventing tanks and windmills. But in a setting where the opposite is true, where wizards are extremely rare, take ages to master what they are practicing then it's much more reasonable to invent the windmill, because most people won't even see magic in their lives.

Any sufficiently analyzed magic is science.

Then in those parts, magic doesn't factor in. If you don't see magic your whole life, then for you, magic doesn't exist.

But no matter the setting, no matter how pervasive or sparse the magic is, the fact that it's magic means that it can do something either really hard or downright impossible. At some point, that will be easier than a mundane invention. Until those people without, out there building windmills, can catch up, magic will be used.

Its actually extremely complicated unless you take the low magic route in which case its not very different from reality. Otherwise EVERYTHING gets fucked.

In my own world building i have been studying and researching this for YEARS. Admittedly I am almost done with it and am only finishing up the magic effects on economics. I completed everything else.

Despite all of that I will say this that time period your interested in is an utter and complete clusterfuck to the HIGHEST order.

I am talking as someone who literally wrote their setting from the beginning of the universe ALL the way to soft sci fi including potential apocalypse timelines. I have researched it all extensively.

Of ALL of that the HARDEST fucking NIGHTMARE of a goddamn time period roughly renaissance to modern. Seriously it is pure fucking hell.

I only have some of the basics down and I completed just about everything else that is super important. I am only waiting to finish up my econimics before REALLY throwing myself into that time period because it was so fucking hard to do I had no choice but to save it for last. Of some of the basics I have done i am not entirely confident with my discoveries and intend to do over it again.

I have gone over it again and again unlike literally everything else I am still unsure of it. Its why I had no choice to save it for last. Admittedly I had basic gist of it down given how i was able to derive the soft sci fi but unlike all my other works i am still unconfident in it.

As for your question about the magic effects upon technological development that is something I extensively worked on so your in luck and i will explain my findings in my next post.

We have this setting in a couple different sources. Somewhat Eberron, but more so the Iron Kingdoms.(Warmahordes)

The magic effects on technological development I have discovered this. While it DOES slow down technological development it does NOT stop it. Basically consider magic a different form of science or more specifically a field of it that is very popular/powerful. Naturally MANY people will go into THAT particular field, but this is the kicker and most important not ALL of them will do so.

Perhaps they have fuck all for magical talent or maybe they hate magic. In the end its still the same result. While slowed technological development will not be completely halted. Even in the highest magic settings this will be true admittedly though the more important, powerful, and popular magic the greater the 'brain drain' as well as decreasing view of importance of tech(to a degree however i have found some interesting exceptions to this seeming rule) and so the slower technological development, but it will NEVER be completely halted.

Even if for some reason technology is hated and considered a taboo subject. You will STILL have people getting into the field. So the real question is not IF magic prevents technological development rather its HOW large of an effect it has upon it!

This is a big reason why there appears to be so much technological stagnation in magical settings. If you look into it makes sense unless its a low magic setting or lasts for way too long.

I could go into detail but that is generally the basic gist of it.

As for the other two questions honestly I am not confident enough to say for certain. Generally however the more powerful firearms are the stronger magics will be needed to protect against it. Meaning that old armor CAN in fact still be surprisingly useful assuming its powerfully enchanted enough to still protect. Whats important however is the ease of firearms that would allow the commoner to better resist, rebel, and protect themselves.

You gotta remember the stronger it is the stronger the magic will be required to protect against it.

>You can mass-produce cameras or rifles, but you would have trouble doing the same with wizards
>What is eugenics?

So if there are people who hate magic, would they group together and only use tech? Like a reverse amish?

So would you say the way magic works would have a huge impact on how magic slows technological progress?

This is HUGE!

It basically mimics the effect of firearms upon politics and rebellion with some extremely important yet complicated differences. This is why among other reasons why despite have done so much research and put so much work into it that i still feel so uncertain about it all.

I DID however have enough of a basic understanding to go ahead and do soft sci fi. Its just I realized I needed to put a lot more thought into it and carefully work it over. Its complicated as fuck time in our own history in magical settings is so much fucking worse.

So basically for that rough timeline you would still have magical arms and armor they would just become less common because of the need to protect and keep up with the tech.

Yes this could mean you have magic knights in world war 1 but those guys are gonna be increasingly rare and their gear pimp as fuck to protect them. In other words they be fucking expensive. So aside from heirlooms and the odd crazy but bad ass bastard your going to see its going to be similar to what we had...at least that is until you recall tech's potential to REBEL against magic!

And more importantly not HORRIBLY lose in the process! This is very important for things like revolutions but its fucking complicated and I am still working it all out.

For adventuring parties you can end up with interesting hybrid of old timey goodness and more modern. Just be aware that during such a time frame adventurers are actually in an very interesting transitional period(at least to me anyway) that I am still working on the kinks out of big time. Mostly because unlike the above i really don't have a whole lot of good examples and real world shit to work off of. It naturally has massively slowed things down but I have realized a few things.

The same reason that people in settings where wizards are ubiquous still bother with horse-mounted cavalry and fighters, even though all mechanics points the latter towards being hopelessly outclassed?

So basically rule of cool and "because we want to put them in the setting"?

Is there a point on a tech tree where you need Manhattan project level of investment to progress any further, and if so will it be developed if tech is only being developed for shits and giggles.

Big time but i am speaking in general. Given the incredible variety of 'magic' I worked with what was going to be common ground then specifics(because at that point it would literally depend on how your magic in question works exactly). I realized it would be pointless to get bogged down in that literally endless potential and worked on what was going to true no matter what. With then noteworthy exception being low magic.

Low magic is nice and easy because of how weak the magic is makes it so it follows much more closely to how it worked in reality. God bless low magic settings and systems. I never truly appreciated them until then.

What is so damned special and important about technology in a magical setting is that its substitute to magic(just like our magic is a substitute to our own technological reality but in reverse). This makes it so its possible to rebel and protect against magic WITHOUT using magic.

Extremely important no matter how your magic works.

So yeah your going to see all sorts of stuff like. Especially should magic follow bloodlines(which would DEEPLY entrench nobility and fuck your settings political systems/history so goddamn hard you have no idea).

I found tech taking some peculiar twists and turns as well as having some truly fascinating changes and effects in a magical setting. It was truly enjoyable and fun to explore but increasingly difficult within a certain time frame. Stuff that you would honestly not encounter in anything but a magical setting. I honestly consider it a true shame magical settings and fantasy writings not taking advantage to explore it more. Its very deep and to me personally extremely fascinating.

What if tech can't substitute for magic in some aspect?

Tech development is merely slowed not outright stopped. Basically it takes longer to get around to it but it will happen eventually...

So yeah there is. Especially given how advance magic will be your going to say tech develop in such a way as to counter or mimic the effects of magic at first but you'll also see exploring and experimenting to see if there is something tech can do but magic cannot. It would be the same should or own world or equivalent suddenly develop magic. People are going to be very curious at whats possible with it and will start with whats most familiar first.

Nukes are in fact surprisingly important in a magical setting because it gives non magic users the means to have have such a powerful weapon to counter the real powerful magics and magi. This is particularly important given the inevitable clashes.

In which case the following is VERY important to remember.

The later the clashes occur the greater advantage tech will have over magic. The sooner the clashes occur the greater advantage magic will have over tech.

This is EXTREMELY important to keep in mind should you be doing a magical setting between renaissance and modern. By soft sci fi period I have found that its generally been worked out one way or another and 'calmed down'(at least until the fun happens when different space faring groups run into each other who possess differing histories ESPECIALLY during such an interesting time period...). I literally ended up with harder tech sci fi clashing against magitech clashing against pure magic in some amazing threewayed clusterfuck. It was fucking...AWESOME.

You see hybrids if not otherwise they would stay separate in that particular aspect. I must however remind anons how tech that is sufficiently advanced is often impossible to differentiate from magic in appearances. So keep that in mind when your doing stuff like that.

Is a clash inevitable between magic and tech users if everyone is capable of using magic, but at various levels of skill that is not racially based?

question is, how do modern tactics change when you introduce magic to the battlefied. I have it my setting that units generally have a mage attached to their fireteam. I'm curious what your research says about how mages change modern combat.

Why do people always assume that magic is something easy to apply to everything? Maybe you have to learn to work with magic, and discoveries are made like people invent new machines. So you could be working on a flintlock at the same time a wizard is working on a cheap Magic Missile Staff even the peasantry can use.

What is the end game of magic progression? Tech has stuff like the matrioshka brain, where you download yourself onto into a digital paradise on a planet wide supercomputer. A second question, how does trans humanism interact with magic especially if magic is proof of the soul,

Eventually yes. Shit is going to go down at least a few times until things finally settle down. The only time i found this not to be true is either when one is blatantly superior to the other or you encounter a MAD scenario. In either case they can no longer afford to fuck with the other.

Admittedly though if everyone is capable of using magic it wont be nearly as bad. Things get really REALLY bad if not everyone is capable of using magic. If everyone has the potential on the other hand it wont be nearly so awful but will still happen to an admittedly much lesser degree.

I have found that magic interestingly enough oddly mirrors technological developments on the field of battle but then proceeds to hybridize with the current timeline's idea of warfare and limitations.

Admittedly a huge part of this depends on what magic can do and how common it is.

So you end up with 'artillery' magi who use area of effect spells.
You end up with comms by using magi.
You end up with actually quite good medics and field hospitals due to magic.
Ambushes and feints are much more deadly when you can use illusions.
and so on.
But on the other hand you have counter magic magi who basically protect you against all those other magi(and not even gods will save you should you not have any not to mention good luck trying to get your army to fight without any)

Magic in general provides a lot of holy grail tier aid to warfare. Fortunately magic also tends to provide the means to keep soldiers fighting and boost the population enough to afford. I found that in generally I ripped massively from the effects of different technology with our own modern warfare.

There are however some exceptions. The stuff above and that like it is pretty obvious. These exceptions are whats important because you don't really have any sources and real world shit to base it off of.

This part in particularly slowed me down quite a bit when I was chewing through the magic effects on warfare.

Combining the two in the form of MagiTek is definitely cooler

With magical enhancements will it be easier to make armor that can protect than it will be to make weapons that destroy? Kinda reverse WWII where we abandoned the concept of body armor.

Sounds about like what I had in mind, although magic in the setting tends to only have immediate effects, longer lasting effects like an illusion or field requires them to focus on continuing the spell. Just casting a spell requires a mage to concentrate (usually boosted by some form of technique, commonly vocal speech and gestures). So standard infantry affairs happen, especially since mages powerful enough to actually be used in combat are somewhat uncommon.

Honestly it was probably to compensate for how easy all the previous stuff was and honestly tripped me up a few times because I wasn't expecting it to be unexpectedly so tricky. Mostly because your pretty much copy pasting it except for the counter magi(who are EXTREMELY fucking important you can possibly make do when lacking any other kind of magi but good luck making do without counter magics).

Counter magics are honestly and most likely the first of which you'll encounter. Counter magics...well honestly our real world counterparts would do terrible terrible things to get their hands on something like that so because seriously its just so goddamn useful and important its unbelievable. So good luck getting your soldiers to fight without it.

Now for the other magics that we DON'T have real world equivalents to rip off of like no tomorrow.

Summoners: These guys would be HUGE. Imagine having a recyclable army that you can use over and over again without even worrying nearly as much about casualties! just because you have ONE guy who is a summoner! This shit is beyond kick ass and naturally they are especially a big target to murder, because these fuckers if given enough time can easily change the tide of a battle.

In truth its likely only a master summoner could summon an entire goddamn army but even weaker summoners would be insanely useful because of their ability to summon reinforcements whose losses honestly don't really matter. This effect is huge.

Necromancers: The ability to talk with the dead is invaluable for intel. The ability to animate the fallen and demoralizing effects it would have even more so. Especially if your willing to take the heat. Not to be underestimated as the more costly the battle the stronger these assholes become. So extremely important to kill early on.

Artificers(and their equivalents): ALL HAIL THE POWAH OF ALCHEMY AND GOLEMS. What did you think magic couldn't have their own version of machinery and AI? MUWAHAHAHA.

Nite user. Thanks for the neat discussion.

I've had the idea with playing around with the "Highly advanced technology is no different than magic" by playing with the reverse

In the setting, everyone is capable of magic. However, some put it to different capabilities (which lets warriors do the crazy weeaboo shit grognards like to throw a shit about). Not everyone can use it innately like sorcerers can. Clerics and paladins use their magic by believing in a religion or a spiritual cause, or by sheer willpower. Wizards are the most common "spellcaster" , thanks to the high elves. They are capable of mass producing magic items at no cost if they use a practical conveyor belt. The setting has so many "magic items" that it technically acts like technology in our world. You don't need to know the spell to fling fireballs to use the enchanted repeating crossbows that shoots fire bolts, like you don't know how to make a gun to shoot a gun.

Essentially though, it's just Phantasy Star Universe except not in space.

This also includes chemical warfare. Unexpectedly I encountered WW 1 era and later problems due to the crafting magi. Don't underestimate this effect and its actually quite possible(as in downright likely)there is entire series of treaties which may limit their usage(and also other even more destructive magics like a nuke equivelant for instance). Fuck even mere alchemists can qualify because lets be honest they are basically magical chemists which is even worse then normal chemical warfare.

So real surprise there if there is strange lack of such effects. Most likely its because the magi got together and came to some agreements before threatening everyone else to agree or else.

In fact crafting magi are SO fucking important their shit can even potentially allow a goddamn knight compete safely in ww1 era conflict. They are just that awesome.

Naturally you have other stuff like NATURE MAGIC!

Oh that is a real nice fields full of important grain shame should something happen to it...oh look at all those important roads. They are about to get fucked.

Say hello plagues and natural disasters that are now at the magi's finger tips. These guys could even do shit that we outright cannot like causing earthquakes and storms on command.

Those are all but an example of stuff that doesn't fit with real world equivalents or does too disturbingly well.

I had enjoyed quite the mixture of fun and horror when I was going over the magic effects on warfare. That is all the basics though real world version are easy and honestly make things interesting as it doesn't modernize the forms of warfare as much as you would thing just hybridizes it. Things get really interesting and messed up when you however throw in magics that we DON'T have any real world comparisons for. Those are the trickiest ones.

Tolkien had steampunk Numenorians and living demonic siege engines and industrialized Orcs. Tolkien established the archetypes, so if he says it's okay then it's okay.

>Artillery & explosives arrived in Europa in 1200
>Firearms was developed in 1300 because somebody wanted portable artillery

>The point that was being made is that it's easy to mass-produce mundane weapons
No its not, thats a industrial idea, and thinking it works like that in a feudal world is a dangerous kind of thought error.

And its not like it took the RL human world several thousand years from civilization until industrialization.

Depends on the magic. I personally ruled quality of magic defensive enhancement has to go up to keep up with stronger attacks otherwise...

So yeah you remember those wonky heavy suits of armor that were just too heavy to be useful or even fail to protect? Imagine if they were made lighter with magic and their defensive properties enhanced through you guessed it magic.

Too bad that sorta thing wont be cheap.

Yeah pretty much but keep in mind your only considering the real world counterparts and not unique magics that wouldn't have a real world counterpart. That is what will be the most work for figuring out. Everything else is easy as shit its only those ones that can cause problems.

My autism resulted in being so anal about it and obsessively worked on it over many years

In truth it really DOES get fucking complicated if your not willing to half ass it. I wanted my setting to follow its own internal logic that is founded upon carefully studied principles so it all makes sense in setting. For maximum realism without being realistic.

I learned the hard way that in truth these kinds of questions are not easy if you want quality. I think I am the only world builder who got so anal about this sorta thing which kinda makes me sad because I would of loved to bounce ideas off others. Alas even if I check the worldbuilding I nevar do seemed to me they all did rather basic stuff or really specialized. I on the other hand went detailed overarching generalist in world building normally you would think they cancel each other out. They don't it just makes for a buttload more work.

Early guns were shitty as hell. It took them centuries to get any good but annons and knights should be side by side.

It is indeed. I personally use a wide variety of magic types in setting which are all behind only a few archtypes.

I'll be back in the morning should there be any more questions and so lets make this thread great!

I'm curious as to what you mean by "unique magics that don't have a real world counterpart"

Magic biowarefare is amazing.
All the horrors and deadly of WW2 super killer gas, but without any of the downsides(i.e wind controls effectivity)

You also have things like body modification and enchantment.
The moment a mage realizes he can enchant each of his bones, each of his organs, and the skin replaces itself over 2-3 years... Thats the moment where things can go completely bonkers from a power level standpoint.
The same applies to all the mages pets, especially once you mutate them.

And I think only Simarillion and Elric of Melniboné is the works I have seen where God Sorcerers try to take over the world with their extremely potent Archmagic.
And where Sorcerer Kingdoms is a great deal, because it turns out mutated super horrors are in fact the horror they are thought to be.

Can summer finally end?

Because threads like this get recycled ad nauseam during summer - shit that was already "resolved" countless of times, discussed, shitposted and cracked, yet you are ought to have another thread when the last one disappears/is at the bottom, just because some new idiot reposts the same fucking issue

In any setting with magic there is counter magic. Technology or magitech becomes essential purely because wizards are in a constant battle of spell counter-spell and your army would revolve around keeping your wizards alive and killing the enemy ones. That means your troops and kill squads need either magic of their own or increasingly advanced technology to win faster. Wizards are the "I win" button whoever gets to hit it first is the one that around the battle.

In the above posts are examples mentioned summoning, necromancy, and nature magics. We don't really have an earthy version.

This is just a single part why I am still struggling with a certain time period. Admittedly problem was into that before but holy shit does the shit hit the fan in those timeframes.

Usually down to an agreement of (we wont use it if you don't either)

but yeah I totally agree. There is a reason why in my setting magiocracies are their own seperate super block. The other two being the Theocracies(lol we confirmed our gods) and Monarchies dominate.

You got to remember though if they fuck things too much then the other magiocracies will get involved even if others do so already.

Mostly because the problem of magical waste(and the resulting magical wasteland of horrors). In my setting each magiocracy is allowed only 1 such dump for the sake of preserving the world. Also the reason why there isn't(pernament) damages when powerful mages go at it is due to the steep penalties.

Its perfectly okay to melt a mountain and burn the woods on fire, but GODDAMN if the nearby area will now have magical effects now and nobody will save you should it turn into a fullblown magic wasteland(ahem magic trash dump)

SO there ARE limits!....Sort of. Otherwise the world would of been wasted into nothing but a empty shell full of magical horrors.

Too bad magi aren't so good at stopping it completely and are easily intrigued...the world only manages to stay alive due to their realizing its importance so they wont kill it.

but yeah magical biotech would indeed be amazing. I have it under Nature magic until it partly splits due to specialization.

What never heard of Veeky Forums making shit threads? Not to mention that question is a very interesting and complicated one when thought about much less discussed which I am here for.

Only a super strong wizard can end the battle with the first hit and they'll have to had beaten everyone else.

And honestly that kind of figure would rarely take part in that sorta thing. Its just the usual warfare but with some new gimics and protections. Soldiers are just as important and magi there to work for them. Unless that is you make them ALL magi then that ruins the point much less the sheer costs of possessing that many magi...a nightmare it is.

I can explain it more when I wake up tomorrow...not able to explain very well right now so I am sorry about that.

I would actually be interested in reading about this setting.
Of course, no forcing you if you don't want to put it into light at all or if you're not interested in it until the setting's finished, but it would be interesting to see what anal adherence to internal world logic in a high-magic setting up to space era would yield.

>Iron Kingdoms

This, it's pretty good.

1. Soul can be a different thing from the body
2. Plane alignments
3. The evil between stars is alien in every way, but people could actually worship it, and gain alien whatever

I have 'quite' reached the point for that for first edition but I am almost there. Admittedly when I say 'almost' I actually mean I gotta finish on the magic on economics after that is going to be the hardest part....that is going to take long while. Fortunately I would of had everything else done. Its all basically going to be the major overarching common stuff.

After that its going to be a lot more down to earth and details. These ones I will likely do them repeatedly for different worlds and places in specific and they'll reference the primary source.

At least that is how I am going to organize it.

Of course those are merely the first draft and I will even write out book on the specifics. Once I compile them and doublecheck them yet AGAIN then and only then will it be the second edition.

After that...I shall write stories anons or if someone should wanna play in it I got a basic system for that in mind assuming they don't have one(mostly because my own is very rough but it sorta functions as intended to make this a feature of my works along with other specific things like languages.

Can't fucking believe I put all this stupid amount of effort on something like this...

What would anons think of something like that anyhow or people in general anyway?

Really does make me look autistic as shit to go through such extremes before even writing or using it on a game.

>but you would have trouble doing the same with wizards.

Someone didn't play Final Fantasy 9, it seems.

You can eugenic wizards.
Which is the entire plot of The Witcher, where The Wild Hunt is one of the Elves parallel clans who succeded, and Gerald's Elves failed badly.

You can speed up training. It only requires 2-3 generations of training, and taking notes on what takes too long.
Training is ironically enough not that logistics intensive. To train 10 students, logistics only really is a supply chain of 3-4 people PER subject, without the ability to pass down information without personal contact.

Contrast to Cameras or Rifles, neither of those can actually be mass produced without a massive supply chain. A camera is rapidly worth a manpower of 200-300 people to produce, and thats before you factor in transportation of said components.
High end military army gear costs even more manpower, but modern society doesn't think about how its logistics actually work, so they think its free.
Manpowerhours is also a valid measurement to logistics. Even something like a cake is worth 8-9 hours PER ingredients, and thats for 1 farmer with modern power tools to do the job alone. And thats without the manpowehours added for refining the product(i.e grain), transporting it, making a machine to speed up any part of the process, fuel, etc.

Well, don't think anybody on the Internet is going to blame you at least. Plenty of great things are born out of autism (plenty of awful things too, though, but it's the natural cost of it), and honestly, it seems really fun making such a setting, and why shouldn't people do what they find fun?
Really, in the worse case scenario, it would be fun reading about it, probably. If anyone likes it and decides to play games with it, then all the better.
And with gamers, just don't be in-your-face with how detailed the setting is, I think. The setting will naturally look weird, probably, and it's alright, weird setting can be fun. The real fun would be from not just telling the players the lore of the world (unless they ask and their characters should logically know that), but letting them piece it together and have their own "aha" moments, when things that seemed random suddenly connect and start reinforcing one another. Just let the story play out in it, make setting affect the story in logical ways, but not dominate it. I would do it like that.
Unless they just want to go on a lore-gathering expedition or something, of course.

But then again, I just like this kinda stuff. My favourite setting has both constructed languages with wildly different dialects solely for magic casting, and physical explanations of how exactly does the magic work in it, and what is the difference in physics from our world required for that to happen. Oh, also, giant magic amplification towers and artificially created human-like magic users. I like Magitek.

>Wizards apprentice gets bored of studying
>Knows basic magics, fireballs and shit
>Figures out during accident that when a standard fireball is compressed it pretty much explodes
>Creates basic gun thats pretty inaccurate but rivals lightning bolts in speed
These kinds of weapons exist in my setting, but theyre very rare and really goshdarn expensive

People assume magic can be applied to everything, because they live in modern times.
A period where Capitalism is such a strong force, that technological gimmicks will be tried on a lot of processes, where ensuing products will be sold on the marked.
A world where patents is applied, and once said patents expire: A floodgate of products will ensue if the patented mechanic is good enough

Read Uber.
Uber is a very good example, a gigantic deconstruction of how Superheroes are fielded.

> I have it my setting that units generally have a mage attached to their fireteam.
So you are thinking that Mages + Army = WW1 tanks, right? The tank is fielded to support the men, when in reality the men could be fielded to support the tank(Blitzkrieg)
Just like how pre modern artillery was fielded to support the men, when Artillery alone could have won the war.

Even in something like D&D, with low level mages, you wouldn't fight like in a feudal war. You would have a few of them use Rituals, to cast massive army/fortress destroying spells.
There is no reason to use Fireballs as artillery, when a hill could be literally raised, and a few fledgeling could do a ritual to cast Enlarged Cloudkill, Meteor Swarm, Earthquake, or worse.
Sieges could be won by literally using Gate, ruining all enemy fortifications.
And thats before you consider using spellcraft to create enchanted mutated Familiars, or other servants, to hold their power.

D&D dragons would wage war much in the same manner, bypassing the need for a army.

...

Which is why I said that it turns into spell counter spell. Any cabal of wizards is GG if they can get off their spells

Spell doesn't Counter Spell(both the feat and the action).

See this post, which is wrong: Tsar Bomba isn't impressive from a fantasy standpoint. Its only a 10km fireball + its after effects. Meaning it levels 20-30km of ground.
27 tons of bomb for that much? Not great.
Little Boy comes with a 370m diameter of fireball, plus a a blaze of about 3km, which isn't that great either.
Atomic Bomb isn't a equalizer in any way, because the Atomic Bomb seems great when compared to conventional artillery. Conventional artillery doesn't:
1. Poison the entire area with radiation, a invisible killer(!)
2. Doesn't knock out all radio for several horizons
3. Conventional artillery do not penetrate bomb bunkers properly
4. Conventional artillery generally generates kills on human with shrapnel, but rarely with direct hits
5. Conventional artillery do not ignite everything in a close radius. And cause third degree burns further away
6. Conventional artillery do not deal radiation damage to radios, or other electronic devices
7. Nuclear bombs arrived alongside Long Range Ballistic Missiles. Conventional artillery is often limited to 50-100km of range, where the Horizon is a mere 44ish km away at sea level.
Nazi V-2 missiles has a range of 320km, postwar nuclear missiles even further.

The great fear of Nuclear weapons is not THE BOMB, but rather that it will get miniaturized to the point where small conventional missiles is replaced.
Remember: Conventional artillery do not penetrate bunkers well. Nuclear bombs get into a yield range where they do. And their yield range allows for carpet bombing that will level cities, without leaving ruins where the bomb hits.

In a fantasy standpoint, where you have ways to actually level cities, or leave them in ruins, its not as great of a feat. Long Range Ballistic missile is actually a bigger problem, unless a way to use spell artillery without sight is found.

>In which case the following is VERY important to remember.
>The later the clashes occur the greater advantage tech will have over magic.
Your setting has never experienced Space Druids has it? Without the leash of the atmosphere, the Druid now has access to raw inertia and raw solar power.

Magic makes nukes even worse when you combine them with teleportation.

Napoleonic Low Fantasy is the dankest shit.

A thousand dynasties of sorcerous blood screaming as they pass though the fires of revolution and stand or fall.
8ft tall grenadiers popping tonics to breath fire.
Romantic poetry that leaps off paper and into souls and minds.
Absurd courts and menageries of the collected heritage of empires.
Light infantry hunting the mage battery.

I had it in mind for a while that In my setting, 18th century soldiers with firearms and tricorne hats exist alongside knights and plate armor, but it took me a long time too come up with justification for this.
What I ultimately decided was that the musketeer types are also wizards. They supplement their magic missiles with ranked musket fire so they don't blow all their spell slots at the start of a battle. My convenient excuse for reconciling the armor negating ability of firearms with D&D's armor class system is that they are inaccurate.

>Otherwise the world would of been wasted into nothing but a empty shell full of magical horrors.
The joke IS that the world is that.
People don't realize it just yet, because Fantasy Darwin hasn't arrived to dig up the history of mutation.

Good chance there is only few natural species left, and the oceans isn't traveled by boats.

Well in my setting, the technology level already matches modern day tech, so mages are usually deployed as force multipliers, along side with AFVs and air support.

Making magic emulate certain parts of modern technology is completely easy to do.

Heck, Magic the Gathering has an artifact that replicates a fancy paper shredder, and has a hell of a reverse shredding function... that breaks the machine when you use it.

Codex Shredder

>Get a tool that doesn't work like anything else, with new special magic properties
>Use it like a hammer
>Its a electromagnet

The more magic you try to put into something, it grows exponentially more difficult and strenuous.

Thus, mages tend to put minimal amounts of their own magic into things, relying instead on more "mundane" principles like mechanics and alchemy.
Magical printing press? Almost all mechanical.
Golems need a ranged attack? Give them a cannon arm, not a wand of lightning.
Need to help the wounded after a battle? An ounce of powdered mandrake and lime peel does the work of ten pounds of magic.

>A friend of mine has maintained that magic would effectively prevent technology from developing, but I'm not sure. Thoughts?

This is called a competency trap.

Rotary engines have some theoretical advantages over piston-driven engines. But piston tech has a century of refinement and optimization behind it. You'd have to invest a lot of effort up-front to even catch rotary up to it. So it's not worth doing. So most production engines are piston-driven.

This is also why companies are so easily supplanted by superior technology from small upstarts despite huge advantages in market position and resources. By the time it's obvious that they need to switch, the small company has acquired so much experience and developed the tech so far that a competitor has to catch up. But whereas the small company developed its tech at a time when there was no superior alternative with that tech, the big company is trying to backfill and learn all those lessons at a time when there's something better already on the market and a public that's less forgiving than they were when it was new tech.

The industrial revolution was under way for well over a century before mass production was invented. You need stuff like precision machining, organizations and social structures to support factories, consistent metallurgy, and of course centuries of empirical science and theorizing to develop chemistry, mechanics, and mathematics.

In real life, all those advances accrued benefits of their own and so were worth it. In a fantasy setting, it could be centuries or more of major social changes and investments of people and resources before you saw any benefits at all.

The classic example from history of technology is brass vs iron in cannons. "Brass" (actually bronze) was the superior material to make a cannon out of. But it's much more expensive than Iron. The spanish went on a world conquest binge, but then spent the gold on cannons imported from Italy and Belgium.

The english banned the importation of foreign cannon. They poached the best experts and spent lavishly on improving (inferior) iron cannon designs. It took almost a century, but eventually the tech got to the point where iron was nearly as good.... and a tenth the price.

The lesson normally is about how government management of technology can be superior so long as the policy-makers are wise enough. I'm not so sure; you're really comparing two sets of political leadership, so market vs government doesn't really apply. But it absolutely applies when you're talking about competency trap effects in technological development.

You basically get Warmachine. Things like magitech war robots, magical power armor, and gun wizards.