The MMO death game

Okay, so after watching SAO Abridged, I've decided that the idea of an MMO death game can be interesting, if done right. The issue is, I don't know how to do it right.

The main idea is to make both real and game world important for the plot. In the game, the PCs are elves and dwarves, killing shit and looting epics, all while risking their lives, but in the real world they're fat nerds whose main challenge is navigating the world outside of the australian shitposting forum. This results in using two systems at once - one for a high fantasy game about fighting and magic, the other... Not so much.

That being said, I have no compelling ideas for the plot, no idea which system to use or how to make this idea work.

>That being said, I have no compelling ideas for the plot, no idea which system to use or how to make this idea work.

So, exactly like SAO's author. You'll be fine.

.hack//sign is exactly about this.
Just do that.

Not the OP, but I thought .hack/SIGN was insanely boring as a series. I mean, I had a very good idea of what I wanted from a series about a VR death game, and SIGN was nothing like it at all.

I didn't even know I wanted SAO until I watched all of it, at once.

I've never seen people who liked SAO before now.

I know, it's actually kind of interesting. Don't make too many sudden moves or you'll scare this weird creature that genuinely enjoys SAO.

Ever hear of Battle Royale HS?

Well, there was a very simple game system based on it, called Panty Explosion. t was called that because you were Japanese School Girls in a classroom. One or more of you were psychic and could blow up people's heads or mind control them.

The idea was to fucking live through the day.

Refluff the psychic abilities as 'Sword Skills" and describe it as an MMO, and you have the very thing you wanted with no effort and less system abusability.

He hasn't seen SAO, only the abridged fan series.

I'm not sure why that surprises you so much. I watched SIGN when I was around 14, and I was bored shitless. Actually, I've played all the .hack games, and I was insanely bored with all the grinding. I wanted a game that'd focus on, well, the spectacle of being in VR - With plenty of 'you die in the game, you die in real life for good'.

GU teased a darker, more adult story, but it didn't deliver. Literally no one dies in GU, and the Roots anime is a complete piece of shit that is entirely forgettable.

But SAO? It established exactly what it was going to be about, and they actually went into detail of what the game was like. (The World is basically a glorified chatroom compared to Aincraid, which is more like multiplayer Dark Souls.)

I'm actually quite glad that I only heard about SAO about...What, ten years later, even though it came out around the same time as .hack, which is like the most wasted potential for a franchise ever. .hack didn't realize that the only story anyone actually gave a fuck about was the story about the game itself, not all the shit about the Phases and the real world.

I mean, can you imagine anything more terminally boring than the real world in a show about virtual reality? Quit fucking trying to shove the message down our throats, .hack. At least SAO outright says "You know virtual reality? It's fucking awesome. It's the best thing ever."

I think you're missing the point.

>Okay, so after watching SAO Abridged,
No
> I've decided that the idea of an MMO death game can be interesting,
No.
> if done right
NO

For fucks sakes ttrpg are an entire ly different medium than linear storytelling with gary stu and harem.
Fuck you, no it doesn't work
>b-but my plot-
We call railroading around here and it's not fun.
Fuck off animeshitter. Youre not even a weeb if you were you would have vetter taste

The easiest way to do it is for them to be competing for a prize.

The game is basically a roguelike. First team to get to the end and defeat the boss wins. It's not really an MMO, because there are only like 80 players. Everyone's desperate enough to scrabble for equipment and so on to prepare to fight each other and the Boss at the end.

The whole setting is dark, grim, and apocalyptic. The players are armed with literally whatever they can carry and take from monsters. There aren't really any stores.

All the gold you collect becomes actual cash prizes. If you find a magic goblet, it might be healing potion...Or you might get a case of '23 Chateau Margaux delivered to your front door.

Oh, and if you lose you die.

Not quite.
SAO established exactly what it was going to be about, and then completely ignored that.

Nobody of any importance whatsoever dies, except for Yui, who, thanks to being an AI, could be revived.
Going into detail what the game is like is absolutely pointless in SAO, since the author has no idea what an MMO is like, as evidenced by Raid bosses always getting defeated by small parties. Not to mention that making changes to a game at runtime whose code you have never seen, much less learned before to store an AI, including its current state of operation, as an in-game item in the span of a few seconds is impossible for any human being, especially a 14-year-old kid who hasn't even finished highschool. Not to mention that he could have easily saved everyone still trapped in the game with his backend access by doing the infinitely easier task of globally reactivating the log-out button.

Continuing with "what it was going to be about", it changes into a slice-of-life story halfway through, where nobody is even remotely in danger, until the author remembers that there still needs to be a conclusion to the story, so we skip straight to the final boss where Kirito just straight up ignores the rules of the game to beat him.

So how is this thing good again?

It had a bitchin' fight with a gigantic kobold in Episode 2, however. And arguably the best SAO story of all time is the one that didn't make it into the series: The First Day.

It's the one where on the very first day, another player attempts to murder Kirito in order to get a Quest reward. It ends badly, and both end up fighting for their lives. Kirito, of course, limps away. The other guy doesn't.

SAO is about what we imagined MMOs to be like, where everyone could be a single unique hero and it was a world so awesome you could basically live in it. It managed that pretty well.

So, not only the best thing in the anime isn't actually in anime, it's just a power fantasy?

>Okay, so after watching SAO
Why would y-
>Abridged
MY NIGGA.

>The issue is, I don't know how to do it right.
You have two worlds, the real one and the digital one. You do it wrong when you make the real world redundant: why even have the real world if you're not going to do something with it?

Just off the top of my head, I think it could work with a bi-system game. The digital world is D&D, the real world Shadowrun. It's a typical futuristic dystopia ruled by megacorporations, but with one difference... the largest megacorporations (let's say about 4 of them) have formed a cartel (as powerful corporations often do) and created a VR full immersion gaming system that's incredibly popular. But why would they do this? Money. And not just for profit, but for control.

It's going to sound a bit farfetched but stick with me here. You know how printing money is a right only national banks have because it would ruin the country's/global economy if private corporations were allowed to do that? And you know how very popular MMORPGs like WoW have an in-game currency and "stock exchange" that even has a conversion rate to the dollar (the world's reserve currency)? Now imagine that, but on a much deeper level and a much grander scale. By controlling the in-game currency, these cartels can "print" digital money at their leisure. Combine this with a conversion rate to the real world currency, and this entire game becomes a ploy to control the real world economy and bypass government/international institutions.

In the real world the players are a group of hackers and investigators who want to crash this cartel with no survivors, and they can't do everything from the outside. Some things need to happen on the inside.

>So how is this thing good again?
If you want my opinion, the first few episodes of the Aincrad arc were pretty solid. It was just that the pay-off was disappointing. Best boy Klein should've been Kirito's goofy sidekick.

Sure, it's obviously a power fantasy. But it captures the power fantasy well. .hack just muddled about and was never really 'about' anything except a vague, pretentious anti-escapist message.

SAO is fundamentally about the desire to live in an awesome fantasy world. The villain of the first arc is basically everyone who ever wanted to run a D&D game, ever. He didn't trap 'em in there out of sheer sadism (He later actually assists the hero against the villain who's a pure sadist), it's because he wanted to make them live out a life in a fantasy world.

That's the heart and soul of the series.

>SAO is about what we imagined MMOs to be like, where everyone could be a single unique hero
>im-fucking-plying
Kirito literally got an a TOTALALLY UNIQUE SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE one of a kind skill just for being the mc ( muh kendo trainig gives me fastest reaction speed out of thousands of players)

SAO was literally DESIGNED to have a small party with special snowflake skills and only they had a chance to beat the bbeg while lieterally every other player was cannon fodder. That was -literally- the bbegs plan before the author got bored and rushed the ending where only one special snowflake was required

Except Log Horizon does that too, without ignoring any and all aspects of an MMO, without having the Marty Stu to end all Marty Stus as the protagonist, with characters who have actual personalities and with more tangible dramatic stakes than the fucking death game.

>If you want my opinion, the first few episodes of the Aincrad arc were pretty solid. It was just that the pay-off was disappointing. Best boy Klein should've been Kirito's goofy sidekick.

I absolutely agree. The whole thing had plenty of promise, but it went down the drain with blinding speed. Except for Mother's Rosario, where the show resurfaced for a quick gasp of non-Kirito-polluted air, just to be dragged down again.

There were actually ten special skills, though. Kirito was simply the dude who happened to beat Kayaba. Any of the ten guys could've done it, but Kirito was the dude who fit the bill of being the hero.

Which sucks, because I was actually looking forward to Heathcliff out-snowflaking Kirito. Too bad he was the BBEG who used his control over the system to beat Kirito. Because Kirito is the second coming of Christ and anyone who beats him must be cheating somehow.

>He later actually assists the hero against the villain who's a pure sadist)
To me, this is horribly under-emphasized and that's also why it's so disgusting. The man who killed literally thousands is put in a more sympathetic light than the man who just wants some underage pussy. They're both horrible people, but one of them is a mass murderer and the other is not.

Thats what I said and that's exactly the problem. The problem is 1
> the bbeg plot was designed around a team of snowflakes
>kirito managed to outsnowflake even THAT

A lot of people people really 'like' SAO, that's why they hate it so much.

People see the beginning and think "a thrilling deathgame in the dangerous unknown? I want that". But instead they got blank slate videogame world, self-insert main character without any appeal, waifu-pandering and rape. So, so much rape.

If SAO would have just been plain bad, nobody would give a shit. People want what it did promise, that's why we've got this thread every week.

God help us all once the new season/movie/MMO comes out.

The thing is that it was a premature ending. Kirito brought about the final battle before it was a thing, because he decided to attack Heathcliffe. It was supposed to be the last survivor confronting the Demon Lord in his castle for a final epic duel.

>So, so much rape.
Admittedly I've only watched the first season, but is there really "so, so much rape"? There's season 2's villain, who never actually does anything and only goes as far as to threaten that he will jack himself off in Asuna's hospital room... yeah... and TWO YEARS WORTH OF SEMEN MADE A GLOPPING SOUND AS IT FLOWED ENDLESSLY INTO ASUNA

My main problem with SAO is that every girl introduced after Asuna was better-fleshed out that she was. Sinon and Leafa are especially great, it's too bad the protagonist was already taken.

Expertly put, thank you.

By the way, have you seen the video games? It's like they're not just waifu-pandering, they're pandering-pandering. Just sheer zero-effort pandering to the second power.

Man, I must've been the only one who liked Kirito. He's the first anime protagonist I've actually found to be attractive, in a 'I'll be happy to fuck him' sense. I could actually understand why Lizbeth, Leafa and Sinon were attracted to him.

I mean, when he manages to save Sinon from being killed? She was this close to clawing his pants down. Showing up on a motorbike later and providing a valid alternative to her creepy beta orbiter friend just made it hotter.

I dislike having to ask this question, because there are usually more... constructive avenues of inquiry. But I believe it is appropriate here:

How old are you?

>detail of what the game was like
Yeah. It has only two stats. And people expect me to believe that only ONE PERSON, out of the ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE GAME, made a pure strength build? And that this is somehow supposed to be a brilliant accomplishment? MMO players will utterly snap your game in HALF with broken bullshit if you're not constantly tweaking and adjusting balance to fix that kind of shit, Reki.
And the later games only get DUMBER. Gun Gale? Somehow, his stupid magical kendo reflexes make him fast enough to deflect bullets, Jedi-style. You know the problem with that? One of the greatest (personally I'd say THE greatest, but I don't want to start a baseball argument) major league baseball hitters of all time was Ty Cobb, with a career batting average of .366. The last man to beat a .400 in a season was Ted Williams, who managed a .406 in 1940. A major league fastball clocks around 100 miles per hour. A .45 ACP round (considered a "slow" bullet) travels at 576 mph, more than five times faster. No human is fast enough to block bullets with a sword, Reki.
My issue with Asuna is that she goes from being a competent character in her own right, to Princess fucking Peach in every arc after the first. Personally I think she should have been one of those other snowflakes that "totally exist out there". The plot should have been about GATHERING TOGETHER THOSE SNOWFLAKES in order to get shit done. But nope. We had to have a solo hero powerwank instead.
Look, Reki. Mr. Kawahara. There's nothing WRONG with having a powerful hero. Especially in a shonen series. I mean look at Goku. Dude's powerful enough to DESTROY PLANETS if he's in a bad mood. But he doesn't constantly get called a power fantasy mary sue. You know why? Because there are plenty of other characters ON HIS LEVEL Above it, even. Kirito's absurd power level would have been fine. IF we had actually gotten to SEE some of these eight other snowflakes besides him and Heathcliff.

Twenty-eight. Why? What's wrong about wanting to fuck Kirito? He's attractive enough, and doesn't have a completely off-putting personality.

Like, you could settle for some like (ugh) Recon because you have absolutely no choice, or you could pick the dude who fought a dragon for you. It's pretty clear what any girl would hold out for.

I've played the first one.

Terrible game, excellent torture advice. It fits the franchise.

Would you happen to be female? Because you sound like my ex-girlfriend.

That's entirely besides the point.

Look, the Lizbeth episode is the best example. Let's say you're a fairly attractive young woman, and you're trapped in a game. You're surrounded by, to put it charitably, mouth-breathers, virgins, perverts and retards.

Then this guy comes along who clearly isn't salivating at the chance to fuck you. He's also highly competent. Then he risks certain death to save you, and he doesn't consider it an obligation that has to be repaid.

Same with Sinon, too. If your trauma is having murdered someone, and he's "Yeah, I murdered several people too. But I understand the circumstances" while showing such an honest, not-strings attached love for the game you clearly like so much, that's very appealing.

Was Recon Deathgun's brother or some other guy? Also, great on the show for punishing the audience for being intelligent at the first fucking appearance of the character.

But as for Kirito, the problem is not so much the character as how he is treated. I dare say the passages of the book where Kirito just thinks about videogames were almost enjoyable.

But he is exaggerated in his abillities and his character is stunted constantly to fit the plot. Some other user mentioned the console scene already. Kirito can just pull off impossible things, but conviniently forgets to fucking save anyone.

Or that beater scene in episode 2. It shows that he is willing to make things harder for himself in order for the greater good (though the entire beta player situiation was stupid anyway), but he sees any consequences for his actions, so he can't grow from the expierience.
The closest thing you have is the death of the randie guild, but that is only ever used to justify him being a lone wolf.

There's a reason the abridged version has ten times more character. They almost did a complete 180° on his personality but managed to make a recognizable and enjyable character with existing footage and way less screen time.

No, Recon was Leafa's friend. The Deathgun guy was the dude who had that creepy crush on Sinon.

This seems like a flawed idea, but since you're a fan of my second-favorite abridged series I'll try to give helpful advice.

Instead of using two different systems try using an agnostic system with two sets of characters with radically different power levels/flavors.

GURPs is an option, so is Savage Worlds, FATE might actually work really well for the concept as you'd just switch around a few Stunts and Aspects.

If none of those appeal to you, Mutants & Masterminds while not exactly agnostic is extremely flexible and can definitely do play at different power levels.

See, that guy was erased from my mind entirely due to his complete pointlessness.